Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner
Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner
- Thread starterjimrh
- Start date
I think it depends on the true feelings that are behind the phrase when it is expressed that matters. I'm a sinner (yes, I lie, do bad things, etc.), and I hate my sin as well. This phrase has been turned into an unfortunate way for some people to feel good about themselves with gays. I have a lot of self-image problems, so I certainly can't sit in judgment of anyone.
Hey, Guys, it's David.
I hope that I haven't upset anyone by putting this here. I want to comment about this because of the explosive nature of this, pardon me, stupid saying. I've had a long running feud with this and if some of you are up late tonight, I'll be giving my "sermon" on this one.
David
I hope that I haven't upset anyone by putting this here. I want to comment about this because of the explosive nature of this, pardon me, stupid saying. I've had a long running feud with this and if some of you are up late tonight, I'll be giving my "sermon" on this one.
David
I wanna hear the sermon and this better be good and there better be a good reason for moving it away from the Gay Survivors Room!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
Edited to remove a few of the "!" to reduce the width of the displayed post.
Edited to remove a few of the "!" to reduce the width of the displayed post.
David, perhaps what might be appropriate, if you feel this question would make a good discussion also in the spirituality room, is just copy it over rather than momve it.
My reasoning for posting the question here was to invite input from fellow gay survivors on how they handle this tough love statemenet from their friends, family, neighbours or male survivalists.
Thats all.
I'm sorry I flew off the handle when I saw this moved.
Jim
My reasoning for posting the question here was to invite input from fellow gay survivors on how they handle this tough love statemenet from their friends, family, neighbours or male survivalists.
Thats all.
I'm sorry I flew off the handle when I saw this moved.
Jim
What's sin?
That phrase is lifted straight out of the official straight bigot code book which, since it is in general distribution is widely used, often paraphrased, without attribution but to the same effect.
Ever since I have been self-deprogrammed out of that X-insanity cult, I have wondered at the great enthrallment with that hocus-pocus, superstition stuff.
That phrase is lifted straight out of the official straight bigot code book which, since it is in general distribution is widely used, often paraphrased, without attribution but to the same effect.
Ever since I have been self-deprogrammed out of that X-insanity cult, I have wondered at the great enthrallment with that hocus-pocus, superstition stuff.
Mike Church
Registrant
It makes me so god damned mad every time I hear the word SIN when it relates to something that goes on between to adults. A previous Prime Minister of ours, Pierre Elliot Trudeau, said that that state has no business in the bedroom of the nation. And for that matter neither does anyone else except the adults involved. Why is it that sin is the be all and end all of someone. There are real sins. Like Sexual and Physical and Verbal abuse, Like betraying someone's trust. Like taking advantage of someone for the perps pesonal use. Like Murder, Like Rape. I mean lets look around us. Real sin is everywhere.
There is absolutely nothing sinful about cosensual sex between adults. People just dont get it. These myths are perpetrated by hippocrits (damned if I know how to spell that). If there is a god I choose to thing of him, her it as an enveloping power of love for all. All you have to do is look at WW2 to see how the few can hurt the many.
Sex is a beautiful thing in all its forms between consensual adults. IT is a willingness to share that which truly belongs to you with another and vice versa.
OOOOOOHHHHHH Ime so pissed off at all the crap we ARE FED.
If you are straight enjoy it and if you are gay enjoy it and if you are somewhere in between enjoy it. I mean we are very sexual animals. I am damned sure that the love and sex shared between a man and a woman is no different from the same sex between a man and a man or a woman and an woman.
SORRY FOR THE RANT!!!!!!!!!
There is absolutely nothing sinful about cosensual sex between adults. People just dont get it. These myths are perpetrated by hippocrits (damned if I know how to spell that). If there is a god I choose to thing of him, her it as an enveloping power of love for all. All you have to do is look at WW2 to see how the few can hurt the many.
Sex is a beautiful thing in all its forms between consensual adults. IT is a willingness to share that which truly belongs to you with another and vice versa.
OOOOOOHHHHHH Ime so pissed off at all the crap we ARE FED.
If you are straight enjoy it and if you are gay enjoy it and if you are somewhere in between enjoy it. I mean we are very sexual animals. I am damned sure that the love and sex shared between a man and a woman is no different from the same sex between a man and a man or a woman and an woman.
SORRY FOR THE RANT!!!!!!!!!
Brayton and Mikey,
Great posts. Loved 'em both.
My problem with this phrase is it still stigmatizes and judges people. "I hate the sin that you commited, but I love you even though you are evil" is more the way I interpret this. It is a phrase I personally consider the greatest example of a holier than thou attitude there is.
Having come from a 20 year exposure to extreme biblical literalism, such statements made me feel that I didn't stand a chance. The people who utter them usually haven't a clue about what gay people go through, because to call it a sin is to say it is a choice. And I tell you it is not. Because, even now, accepting that gay is as natural as straight, I would still flip the switch if I could. Straight people do not face the prejudice, fear, hatred and discrimination that gay people do. After all, we're the sinners right? Bullcrap!
So if some one wants to call me a sinner, I refer them to the scripture that says "Judge not, lest ye be judged. For as ye have measured, so shall it be measured to thee".
Great posts. Loved 'em both.
My problem with this phrase is it still stigmatizes and judges people. "I hate the sin that you commited, but I love you even though you are evil" is more the way I interpret this. It is a phrase I personally consider the greatest example of a holier than thou attitude there is.
Having come from a 20 year exposure to extreme biblical literalism, such statements made me feel that I didn't stand a chance. The people who utter them usually haven't a clue about what gay people go through, because to call it a sin is to say it is a choice. And I tell you it is not. Because, even now, accepting that gay is as natural as straight, I would still flip the switch if I could. Straight people do not face the prejudice, fear, hatred and discrimination that gay people do. After all, we're the sinners right? Bullcrap!
So if some one wants to call me a sinner, I refer them to the scripture that says "Judge not, lest ye be judged. For as ye have measured, so shall it be measured to thee".
Sans Logos
Registrant
Hello everyone,
I hope this does not sound smug, but, since the question was asked, the truth is, I neither respond nor react to this question. I've retired from the whole religion debacle, and determined that the topic of spirituality is much too dense and unfathomable for rhetorical unpacking by the likes of us mere humanalities.
Rather I stand back, drop-jawed, and observe how this subject has conditioned into stone the hearts, minds and spirits of many who share this cultural heritage, and how this conditioning insideously ventriloquizes and puppetizes (hahahah) even the purest of intentions.
..............I choose to surround / imbue my person with non-judgemental-ity at all portals, both incoming and outgoing. Life is so much simpler this way.
Kindly and gently,
Ron
I hope this does not sound smug, but, since the question was asked, the truth is, I neither respond nor react to this question. I've retired from the whole religion debacle, and determined that the topic of spirituality is much too dense and unfathomable for rhetorical unpacking by the likes of us mere humanalities.
Rather I stand back, drop-jawed, and observe how this subject has conditioned into stone the hearts, minds and spirits of many who share this cultural heritage, and how this conditioning insideously ventriloquizes and puppetizes (hahahah) even the purest of intentions.
..............I choose to surround / imbue my person with non-judgemental-ity at all portals, both incoming and outgoing. Life is so much simpler this way.
Kindly and gently,
Ron
whendoIcry?
Registrant
There is no room for hatred in organized religion...this is a loaded expression that still presumes that sexual orientation is selected as a sinful lifestyle. The RC Church holds that they 'love homosexuals' but find what they do to be sinful. Get over yourselves...sex is normal, natural and appropriate. We have enough babies on this planet...if two people want to have sex...man to man, woman to woman, or man to woman...let them.
Jesus died FOR all of us and he did so to save us from sin...not to keep condemning us.
Jesus died FOR all of us and he did so to save us from sin...not to keep condemning us.
Yes, I agree.
What is that they say about the difference between the religious and the spiritual...the religious worry about going to hell...the spiritual don't because they've been there.
Judging not, loving one's neighbor, returing love for hate...God, what lessons. Will we ever learn?
Peace and Courage,
David
What is that they say about the difference between the religious and the spiritual...the religious worry about going to hell...the spiritual don't because they've been there.
Judging not, loving one's neighbor, returing love for hate...God, what lessons. Will we ever learn?
Peace and Courage,
David