Hanging on

Hanging on
B

Brayton

Registrant
This has some ugly images in in so beware.

I have had a few really bad days (as opposed to the more usual only so-so bad days). As I was finally coming out of it yesterday I was trying to explain to my partner the near constant anxiety that I experience.

I told him how in practically each waking moment of each day I struggle to be present and not fall back into, at least emotionally, a fetal position or to not run scurrying under tables or into dark corners where I will not be noticed and will feel relatively safe.

I understand where these feelings come from. This does not help, however. I take all the medications that are prescribed for me; I attend and participate in all my therapy appointments; I stubbornly force myself to not think about planning suicide but these things do not work very well.

I told my partner yesterday that I would like to experience just one anxiety-free day but, of course, I really want a whole string of them. Wanting isn't getting. Working for it isn't getting it either.

I wonder at the sentiment that claims that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. The solution is certainly permanent but I have yet to experience the problem as temporary. There is nothing in my experience to suggest temporariness and each day, month, year of this underscores rather than diminishes the feeling of permanence.

I try to find commonality with experiences that others describe having. What I get is never lasting. Society is an exclusive club in my experience.

My therapist tells me that it is not important what I specifically experienced in the past anyway, we have only to deal with the feelings. So we talk for 50 minutes. I cry a bit sometimes. I usually leave feeling a lighter for an hour or two, until the next morning sometimes.

Then I wake again after 5 or 6 hours of sleep with the same old self-loathing, violent mental images, unbidden, popping up. I feel the fists beating my head back and forth, teeth, blood, saliva flying, bones breaking. Nothing like that ever did happen. Its only a feeling.

I wish I could see her (the therapist) everyday. I don't know how to get through the rest of today and tonight. I know that I probably will, based on experience, but I know also that it won't be pleasant.
 
Brayton:
I wonder at the sentiment that claims that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. The solution is certainly permanent but I have yet to experience the problem as temporary. There is nothing in my experience to suggest temporariness and each day, month, year of this underscores rather than diminishes the feeling of permanence
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The problem is temporary. Yes it takes work and and time. We have to make peace with our past. By that I mean recognize that 1. it happened and 2. It ws not our fault.. We have to separate actuality from our feelings and beliefs around it. We cannot change what happened and can get lost in the what ifs or if only. It is a fact. But how we feel about it internally is a whole different basket of fish. The shame the quilt the belief that we caused it or were a willing partner to it. The terror that someone would find out and brand you. The withdrawal from society or the opposite the attack upon society. We can change our feelings and beliefs. And that we are all doing including you. There will be pain but my god the pain is worth it believe me.

The hard thing to do but is terribly important is that what happened is a part of us and cannot change but we will not let the past influence the future because that is where we intend to spend the rest of our lives.

I may be all screwed up in my thinking but it is how I believe and how I feel. I am 63 alomst and wish to god I had started the process before being 56 years of age. But then I have always been able to bullshit myself and I did by believing that it was no big deal. YEH RIGHT

I am starting to ramble so I will stop. Work at it my brother. :cool: ;)
 
The hard thing to do but is terribly important is that what happened is a part of us and cannot change but we will not let the past influence the future because that is where we intend to spend the rest of our lives.[/QB]
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That is indeed the hard thing and confusing for me because I cannot pin down what it is that happened, what it is that is and will forever be a part of me. What I know for certain is that I feel horribly damaged and really not up to dealing with even the little things each day a lot of the time.

This in spite of struggling for years and years; I am 49.

I've grown to hate being around people. This is the only place outside of therapy that I can manage any sort of honest and meaningful "conversation." I am so desperate for this sometimes that it is kind of like a sick feeling, like I am desperate to pry a little crack in my isolation but feel shameful doing so.

It sometimes feels like I am a child craving attention knowing that I should not, that I am not worth being paid attention to or that it is dangerous to seek such things.
 
brayton,
i really don't know if this will help or hinder, just keep in mind that it is intended as the former :)

the night i was going to take my life three years ago was brought on because of a similar situation to what you describe as far as the ongoing pervasiveness of it. the difference for me is that the pain i was going through finally sapped my self identity. always before i was able to have some sense of identity even if it was based on a lie. that night i was nobody and i was so tired. i wrote of this night elsewhere here so i wont go into a rehash of the details. the punchline is that i ended up in the sacristy and poured my heart out to God. i railed at him for the seeming stupidity of stooping to love us when all we did was hurt him and each other. the real question was why should we be loved if we are nothing but evil? this is the hard part to accept for some, but somehow he manifested himself that night to me and comforted me. the main thing i had forgotten in the midst of my pain is what makes us worthy of anything that is good or holy. i did not receive an answer that would apply across the board, nut what i did get was the answer that comforted me from that night onward. the answer was that i survived and continued to survive because i was never alone. i am not saying a religious experience is necessary here, it is just the way that the answer was conveyed to me because it suited my mindset. we survived the hell we did because we were never alone, even when we could not see any one. that gave me a great deal of comfort because i was able to keep in mind that somehow, somewhere, i was not alone. once i had that in mind i started seeing the things i had been missing due to the blindness of my pain. i saw examples of people beng there for me when i least expected it. i saw lady theo come into my life as the blessing she is. what i have said does not directly relate to what you posted, so here is the relationship: i wanted to stop the pain of the non-existence i was going through at the time...it just never seemed to stop. had i done so my abscence would have left a void not only for those i would have left behind but also for those i had yet to meet such as the brothers on this forum. the bottom line lesson for me from this experience is that even though the individual pain we experience is intense and overwhelming at times we are never alone because our lives touch so many others even when we are not aware of it. the pain is not for us to bear alone, brayton, we share our journeys with so many others that we can never be alone. when the pain gets to be too much just try to remember that.
 
Saddened to hear you pain, pain I know all too well.

I have more or less constant anxiety. It is FAR less today than it was since 1962.

A big help for me was reading the book: Hope and Help For yYour Nerves, by Claire Weekes--a Psychiatrist from Austrailia. She is deceased--but only a couple of years AGO THE BOOK WAS STILL AVAILABLE--HUGE CHANGE FOR ME AFTER READING IT.

Some quick ideas
* you are NOT going crazy
* unless you have a clinically diagnosed heart conditiopn you are not having a heart attack.
*you do not have a brain tumor
*you are not going to faint.

Most of us have two attacks of anxiety;
--The first is the anx we feel that hits us and we don't see it coming, don't want it and it scares the heck out of us.
--The second is the anxiety we get from the fear of anxiety, the sayin"
Oh no--here it comes again" and then telling ourselves that we are going crazt etc. We can do nothing about first anxiety--we can kill second anxiety dead in it's tracks by not giving in to it.

That is a very short review of of full book that is quite good. Dr Weekes suffered from anxiety and as you read her book you know that she is a fellow sufferer.

Bob
 
Theo,

None of what I am going to write here is meant as an attempt to argue with or refute what you have written. I recognize the authenticity of what you have experienced and appreciate that you have shared it.

I am feeling somewhat better today than yesterday.

I understand that the anxiety is greatest when I am overwhelmed by activity around me. When possible, I avoid or escape it. That is not always, even often possible.

I understand that the child-part of myself, the part most injured by the abuse I experienced, craves soothing attention. In its pain, it is desperate for this attention but does not know exactly how to obtain it. Its voice is one of desperation.

It really does want to die rather than continue. Sometimes I think the dying it wants is actually rebirth as something else. Other times, when I experience a bottomless emptiness, I think it is just plain dying that it wants.

I haven't yet learned how to provide the soothing attention within myself that my child-part desires so am not yet fully self-sufficient in that regard. I understand that "self-sufficiency" is not reasonable and is more about the desire to be protected than to actually interact in a mature and healthy way with others.

There is a huge difference between logging on this morning and seeing responses to my post and logging on and seeing no response to my post. Because of this, I sometimes think I should give up MaleSurvivor and things like it entirely but then, at the same time, I crave some kind of meaningful connection with others who have like experiences.

My experience with religion is yet another lesson for me that very few things if any are all one thing or another.

Religion on the one hand was the thing I was oppressively indoctrinated with and which was used to put and keep me down. On the other hand, Jesus was my friend in as real a way as that is possible. "He" got me through my childhood alive. Apart from him I was isolated and alone.

Eventually, however, God's answer to my question which was similar to yours, Theo, was not that I was never alone but that, in fact, aloneness was something I would always experience anytime I tried to penetrate the exclusive club-like thing that human beings have constructed around him and whenever that thing was pressed in upon me.

Christian religion, in direct opposition to my child-experience of it, is no comfort at all. Instead, it underscores my alienation from society, feelings of helplessness and despair. It underscores, for me, the cruelty and ignorance of people and their duplicity.

Thanks, Bob, for the book suggestion. I will look it up.

My experience of anxiety is one of steadiness. That is, while it does spike from time to time, I also experience it as a steady rhythm quiety pounding beneath all day long. I am experiencing it now, for instance. I have to push it down continuously in order to get anything done and sometimes retreat to the restroom just so I can look in the mirror and (silently) scream or vent here.
 
brayton,
i always hesitate to bring issues of faith into any dialogue here because i know it is one of the main weapons used in many survivor's lives. i bracket any such dialogue of mine so that i directly acknowledge that. i want to thank you for your opening statement on the validity of my personal experience.

i have also experienced this with little theo, my inner child. i recall journaling where i was in dialogue with little theo and the experience of his pain as he was dealing with the confusing hell of the abuse was overwhelming. i relived the exact moment when little theo finally went into hiding and fully understood why for the first time. i don't know how to respond to his needs while we both go through this integration of past and present. when i first experienced that moment when little theo went away i felt his full despondancy and desire to just want to leave and never come back. how do we respond to the needs of our inner child? i really don't have an answer.

the faith i grew up with was diabolical in the sense of the spiritual war it raged within. about the only thing missing from the brand of religion i was brought up on was the snake handling. that club you mentioned was what kept me out of the faith in my adult years for about a third of my current lifespan. in many respects, i think there is no greater hypocrisy then fundamentalism because of the damage it does to its adherents. faith is never about club membership, it is about being able to look up in the night sky or view the petals of a flower and stand in awe of something greater then one's self. one image that went a long way towards helping me regain that sense of awe was the scene from roots where kuntakinte's (spelling?) held his newborne son up to the night sky and said, "kuntakinte, behold, the only thing greater than yourself." it was never about membership.

i hope i have stayed on topic, but i will wrap this up just in case. the pain and desperation our inner children face (as well as what we face ourselves) is so overwhelming at times. not only do we have to deal with the confusion of the recall we have we also have to try to balance the objective world and the inner world of ourselves and the inner children. how can we manage all of this? somehow we do. in our desperation we want protection, quiet time, isolation...vindication. i think that is what it boils down to. we were never vindicated as children, being worthy of love and nurturance for its sake alone. we search for it any way we can. somehow, though, we survive. for now i have to write it off as one of those mysteries beyond my grasp and just accept each breath as it comes, whether it is full of tears or laughter. take care, brayton.
 
Originally posted by theo:
i don't know how to respond to his needs while we both go through this integration of past and present.

...the pain and desperation our inner children face (as well as what we face ourselves) is so overwhelming at times. not only do we have to deal with the confusion of the recall we have we also have to try to balance the objective world and the inner world of ourselves and the inner children. how can we manage all of this?
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This is interesting because this is just exactly where I am at in therapy. I don't know exactly why but when, a few weeks ago, my T. referred to it as my child-part, my thinking began to shift.

I used to see what I have called Little Brett as a small, sad, faceless child, always facing away from me and shrouded in darkness.

Now I have just begun to see him as I was, a pretty, soft, gentle, white-haired boy. At first I could get close to him, see him clearly but not touch him. Then, yesterday, just before and during my session some disturbing things happened (which I may write about in another topic) and the visualization shifted. I touched him.

Fortunately or not, this began to let loose his voice. I had to tell him to stop after a bit as the things he was "talking" about were images that I had not remembered before and were very disturbing.

I cried a great deal and had an awful time trying to get to sleep last night. I feel so tired this morning, better in a way because this seems like real progress and also scared (can't think of a better word).

Theo, I want to tell you also that your words about your faith and beliefs have touched me. I cannot be where you are now with it and probably won't ever be exactly. Your thoughts on the non-exclusivity of faith, however, were very touching. They led me to recall the thousand petaled lotus flower that is referred to in Buddhist teaching. The commonality was/is striking to me.

Brett
 
Brett
Now I have just begun to see him as I was, a pretty, soft, gentle, white-haired boy. At first I could get close to him, see him clearly but not touch him. Then, yesterday, just before and during my session some disturbing things happened (which I may write about in another topic) and the visualization shifted. I touched him.
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That's a rare and wonderful moment, one filled with so much emotion and confusion that it must seem overwhelming to you, similar experiences have been that way for me I know. But I wouldn't miss them.
I'm still going back for young David, I got so close to him in last weeks group therapy that it crushed me. Someday soon he's coming back with me.
I hope young Brett comes along as well.

Dave
 
I am overwhelmed with the feelings coming out of the experience. I conciously welcome him at various times and particularly when I am writing in my journal.

I have some understanding that I have to hear what he has to say or see what he has to show me little by little, in manageable portions.

I may have written this on another thread here but having a 5 month old grandson is like having another therapist. My experiences with him inform the discussions/explorations I have with my therapist.

Primarily, he shows me that what happened to me didn't have to happen and it wasn't my fault that it did happen. Being confident that he will not be hurt in those ways is wonderful feeling.

The connection with my little self was prompted by a couple of difficult experiences just before my session with my therapist on Wednesday.

First, on my way there I stopped at the public transit store to buy a new bus pass. When I walked in there were a couple of young men standing at the counter.

There was something striking, even familiar about one of them. In the past when this has happened I have assumed that I am experiencing some kind of attraction.

This time, however, my perception just suddenly slipped into something else. I saw little gentle blond haired Brett standing in front of him as something awful was about to happen.

I conciously realized what was going on. It is progress that that experience was more informative to me than traumatic.

The program I go to for abuse recovery therapy also treats perps. It seems that at the same time I am scheduled to see my therapist a group therapy session is scheduled for them. I have experienced some problem with that once before.

I arrived about a half an hour earlier and was sitting in the waiting room. There was only one other guy there at first.

Then another guy came in. He sat some distance away but diagonally from me and facing towards me. As he stretched out and slouched there I felt something odd, a kind of weird connection.

It got horrible though as he started staring at me. I had to check in with myself to make sure that wasn't imagined and I really think it wasn't.

It was like he was reaching right inside me with his gaze and was touching something vulnerable inside me. He had a sort of self-satisfied look on his face.

I went up to the reception desk to ask for a place where I could wait that would feel safer (a sign of great progress in itself) but it seemed like suddenly all these guys arriving for that group were surrounding me.

I was really feeling awful and starting to panic. This was in sharp contrast to only an hour earlier and the entire day really. After a hard week I was really looking forward to seeing my T. and was feeling good about it. My trust with her had/has substantially increased.

Fortunately, at that moment I saw her door was open. She was inside and I asked if I could wait there until she was ready.

I was concious as I sat there that I was not only emotionally but physically closed up. All the usual anxiety symptoms-rapid heart beat, breathing, etc.

It took some time to get out of it, my T is very patient, sensitive and supportive. As that happened I realized that I was able, in that safe place, to actually connect with Little Brett. I had been getting close recently but only to the point of closely observing him.

It was a transforming moment when I realized that we had actually connected. I am guarded about thinking what this may lead to, that this will even continue but the feeling is basically very good right now.

My T and I came up with a place to wait there in future that would feel safe for me.

Being here at MaleSurvivor has been really helping me in this process of "coming out" with my abuse experiences and gaining self-confidence.

Thanks, guys, for all your attention. I sometimes feel isolated and lonely and being responded to, being heard makes a huge difference.

Brett
 
Brayton-
If you feel like meeting in the chat room - if
you need to know someone is there - I can meet you-
anytime today - create a schedule of times you
would like to meet just in case you want a few-

Duncan
 
Duncan

I would like to do this but, unfortunately, the network I am on does not allow access to chtrms.

Brett
 
Brayton, (Part of answer may trigger)

You speak so eloquently of what I feel I want. Of course I am same, I want the same, I want a 'string' of stress-free days. Actually no, I do not mind the stress. I wish a string of no-flashback, no body memory days. That will be worth the work and the wait.

I have so many times thought suicide, from when I was still in the abuse situation, to now, and have attempted several times 'overtly' (and done things, I now see, that were reckless to my safety, many times). The last time I try, I was in hospital for almost a week, and on the breathing machine for few days even.

The way I am seeing it now is different. It is not that it is 'permanent solution to temporary problem' (because you are of course right, this is not temporary, but a f*ked up life), and it is not so that I let 'them' win. But what I see, I am seeking relief, I am seeking to feel better from all these things. But, if I am dead, do I feel? How do I know I will feel anything, even relief, of all this? It is different plane of existence, how will I know I feel anything as same, how do I know I will have memory of what happen in this life so that I can enjoy what I feel then? In my mind, that is just screwing myself out of feeling what I deserve to feel, that relief, happiness, security. I have had enough people in life cause me bad things, I am not going to do it to myself, at least not this big. I still do some self harm, I still make bad mistakes and allow bad things to happen. But I will not do this ultimate.

Also, I feel, they have opportunity to kill me before, and they fail. They are the stupid ones, the wrong ones, the ones who can not even handle to kill a child. Why should I help them, and do it for them? Hell of that.

Just is my thoughts on it. I do not know they will help you at all, but perhaps they can. I hope so, I am just becoming friends with you, and wish opportunity to get to know you more. Please try to be good to yourself.

leosha
 
Thanks for responding. The comments here ARE helpful.

I am experiencing "suicide ideation" as my therapist calls it, less often recently. Use to be just about everyday now it is only on those days especially late in the day when I feel the stress most intensely or on those days when memories of things that happened or feelings recur to me.

Brett
 
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