Guilt

Guilt
E

EGL

Registrant
I've been thinking a lot about Guilt lately, and not about those who are guilty of offences towards me, but rather of my own guilt and all the things I feel guilty about in my life.

I was talking to my wife about it tonight, and she said that from a spiritual perspective we're supposed to ask God for forgiveness of our guilt and leave our guilt before Him. That's hard to do....all my life it's seemed easier to simply carry it around on my back than to try to get rid of it.

Things I feel guilty about?

  • Not telling anyone about the sexual abuse when it was happening
  • Divorcing my first wife 20 years ago after she slept with my brother (who was also my abuser), since I now believe she actually had mental problems
  • Not telling my (present) wife before I married her about the abuse in my past
  • That my family is being affected by my having to deal with all this now
  • I feel guilty for going to therapy, like I'm not worthy to be there when others have so many "real" problems
  • etc., etc....it's a long list

How do we get past guilt? Is it really as easy as my wife says, a spiritual thing of simply asking forgiveness? How do others here deal with it?
 
When you go through the 12 steps of recovery, forgiveness crops up in four places. You ask your higher power to forgive you. You work to forgive yourself for your shortcomings. You work to forgive those who have wronged you. And you ask forgiveness of others you have hurt.

Dealing with forgiveness and guilt in those ways made me a little more human, and each step helped me set down that guilt that I'd been carrying. It's not necessarily easy, but asking for forgiveness from others was one of the most positive experiences in my life.
 
Eddie,

I know I went through a big bout of guilt last year.

Guilt is a double edged sword. A little keeps us straight and behaving. Misplaced and too much tears us apart and eats us up. Im far from any expert, but I do have some thoughts.

How do we get past guilt?
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Acceptance and change. Accept that what has past is past, it cant change. Change the now to not do whatever you were feeling guilty for.
Release the stuff that isnt yours. How many of us fell/felt guilt for something that was done to us? Accept the knowledge that it was something that was done to you, not something you did.

Not telling anyone about the sexual abuse when it was happening
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I would imagine you had a good reason for not telling then. Fear was mine. To me then that was a valid concern, looking back in hindsight, it wasnt the right thing to do. But given the circumstances of then, it was. Accept that you did then what you needed to do then. Change that if something like that should happen again, you know that you can seek help.

Divorcing my first wife 20 years ago after she slept with my brother (who was also my abuser), since I now believe she actually had mental problems
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I have so much to say about that. I divorced my first wife because she was physically abusive to me. She has caused me some permanent physical injuries. I got out of that relationship because it was abusive to me. As was your relationship with your first wife. I can minimalize the abuse to that she was under a lot of stress and that she came from a physically abusive home. She had a lot of problems, but that doesnt erase the fact that she was being abusive and that was a position that I couldnt be in. Nor should you.


That my family is being affected by my having to deal with all this now
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That they are, by just being there. They are affected when you have a cold, by just being there. What happens with us, affects those around us is some way. Not dealing with it affects them, too, and probably in a more destructive way. By dealing with it you are showing them that you (and they) can take care of the stuff that needs to be taken care of. You are setting a good example, this you should be proud of.

I feel guilty for going to therapy, like I'm not worthy to be there when others have so many "real" problems
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Your problems are real problems. They are a problem to you and they are affecting your life. You are doing the right thing by addressing them and getting the help that you need. So many people arent as strong as you and dont seek the help that they need. This is another thing to be proud of.

Keep taking care of yourself. Keep setting the example of how to take care of yourself. Be proud that you are.

Bill
 
Eddie

I know this word, it crops up so many times, I haven't got past it, trouble is, it is one of the most "confusing", of all the emotions, WHY?

It starts off with the abuse, you were never guilty but you have to be, there is no one else to blame other than the perp, and blaming them, can lead to immense anger, so you take the blame.

Then there are all the other guilt feelings, some of which you mention above, you blame it on the abuse, but you carry the guilt of not doing things you would normally do in a crisis situation, like telling others and sharing experiences, the story goes on and on.

It's hard for the mind to handle such confusion and make head or tail of what comes out of the logic of it all, and it leads to a life of consuming guilt infinitum.

But don't ever forget "You are not guilty of any of it"

I read in mic hunters book:-

----------------------------------------------
THE VICTIM MENTALITY
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One of the most crippling aspects of SA is the victim mentality. Most people have been mistreated to one degree or another in their lives, but the experience of being mistreated alone, does not cause someone to develop a victim's outlook on life.

It is only when a person is abused and then left to cope with it on his own that the victim mentality begins to form. The abused child begins to organize his world around his wound. The V M is a view of the self and the world. The world is not seen as the safe and predictable, but as dangerous,unpredicable, and uncontrollable. The victim has learned thru being abused that what he does, wants, feels or thinks makes no difference. Even after the abuse stops, he continues to think of himself as ineffective, powerless and worthless. "Everything that happens is seen through the filter of his victim viewpoint"

This view of the world becomes habitual and forms a belief, which prevents the victim from being aware of evidence that contradicts the belief. An example of this is the generalising of the characteristic of the abuser/s.to everyone on the planet or to everyone of the gender of the abuser/s. Most of these victims' beliefs are self-defeating in adulthood.

Thoughts such as "Men aren't to be trusted", "Anyone who shows any interest in a child is a molester", or "All women want to do is hurt me" lead to further isolation and prevent healing. A person with the victim mentality will constantly be asking, "why" questions: "Why did this happen to me"? "Why didn't anyone stop it"? "Why didn't I tell someone"? Underneath all these questions is the belief that he asked for it or deserved it. Combined with the "why" questions are endless shoulds.
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you can probably guess the shoulds, but is it any wonder the mind is so confused

ste
 
Eddie
Things I feel guilty about?

* Not telling anyone about the sexual abuse when it was happening

They told us lies Eddie, they threatened us with all manner of crap. We believed the lies. NOT GUILTY!

* Divorcing my first wife 20 years ago after she slept with my brother (who was also my abuser), since I now believe she actually had mental problems

Your abuser brother is a sexual predator, your first wife didn't know about your abuse - he did. NOT GUILTY!

* Not telling my (present) wife before I married her about the abuse in my past

See number one, NOT GUILTY!

* That my family is being affected by my having to deal with all this now

Think of your well-being first and foremost Eddie, when you're healed the family will appreciate it. NOT GUILTY!

* I feel guilty for going to therapy, like I'm not worthy to be there when others have so many "real" problems

Eddie, you have every right to the life you deserve, go to therapy! NOT GUILTY!


* etc., etc....it's a long list.

There, that's shortened the list ;)

Dave
 
Thanks for all the comments, guys. I know this is one area of my recovery that is going to be very difficult, because it is founded on a lot of false beliefs, things I've always heard and felt were true all my life. Once I can start undoing these false beliefs, I'm thinking the guilt will fade with them. But the COA in my head keeps shouting from the rear, overruling any logical thoughts I have about it. This one will take some serious time with the T.
 
Hi:

I just found this site two days ago and this is my first post. As I read the posts it is like I have come home. It is exactly me.

Regarding guilt. This has been a huge issue for me. In my therapy I have had to work very hard on separating guilt - which is about things you do and things you can make amends about, and shame - which is what you are and is unchangeble and beyond your control. Shame, such vast shame I have lived in all these years. Fear and shame.

My thoughts about forgiveness. Forgivenss in connected to guilt - not shame. It is spiritual. But forgiveness of perps is based on their demonstrated acknowledhement, demonstated regrete, demonstrated and authintic behaviors to make amends. Forgiveness is between two people and take two people.

Acceptance is a one person (me). When I hear poeple say you must jsut forgive and move on is shoving the pain father down. I have to ACCEPT what WAS and what IS - accept my self - to move pst the shame that came from the abuse. And God can be a huge part of that.

This form is so incredible. I can not beleive it took me so long to admit the abuse I received most of my childhood....

Zog :(
 
Zog:
You wrote:
Regarding guilt. This has been a huge issue for me. In my therapy I have had to work very hard on separating guilt - which is about things you do and things you can make amends about, and shame - which is what you are and is unchangeble and beyond your control. Shame, such vast shame I have lived in all these years. Fear and shame.
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I agree with part of your assessement. Guilt is about WHAT you did (though survivors frequently beat themselves up for being victimized or believing what the COULD or SHOULD have done). Guilt can be a positive emotion. For example, if I were thinking about lying to someone about what I said to another person, I might feel guilty for lying. And, if that kept me from lying in the future because I would incur that guilty feeling again and want to avoid it, guilt might be a way of preventing it from occuring again.

On the other hand, I define shame as feeling bad about yourself. It does no good to feel bad about yourself. If feeling guilt prevents you from doing something bad or wrong, it is actually good for you. However, feeling bad about yourself is really not productive.

To say that feeling shame is
which is what you are and is unchangeble and beyond your control
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is to me a total surrender to believing you have done something that is beyond any forgiveness or redemption.

I think such a position is condemning yourself to remaining a victim rather than a survivor. It also puts the blame on the abuse to you rather than the perpetrator. It IS changable. If you do not believe that now, I'm sure that a number of men and women here can point out to you that your belief is not productive or true. It may feel that way but you can find that there is good healing by allowing yourself to accept that you are not unchangable, particularly when you begin to see that you are not at fault or flawed somehow.

Ken
 
Hi I'm Dave, I'm new here. I just found the site a few days ago. I'm 39 y/o, married w/ 3 kids.

I'm just beginning to address what happened to me as a child. Reading Eddie's post really hit home on several points but mostly the feeling of worth.

I feel guilty for going to therapy, like I'm not worthy to be there when others have so many "real" problems
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I've known for quite a while that I was abused. I just looked at it as a part of my past, can't change it, just move forward. I never researched the effect it had on me. When I began therapy recently to discuss marrital issues my T asked me if there was any sexual abuse in my past. The most I was able to respond was "maybe". I realized at that point that it was more of an issue than I had originally thought. It took 4 meetings with my T and 2 meetings with our couples T before I was able to actually talk about it.

I purchased Mic Hunters book and am in shock. Pretty much everyting I am today is because of what happened to me as a child. A considerable part due to the sexual abuse at the hands of a teenage neighbor and at the hands of my swim teacher. Some due to the emotional abuse from my Mother and the emotional abandonment and physical abuse by my Father.

My guilt stems from the mildness of my abuse compared to other stories I've read. My sexual abuse was once with the swim teacher and 4 times with the neighbor. That's nothing compared to what most of you have been through. The physical abuse was just excessive spanking. At that time, spanking was acceptable and would not have classified as abuse. And yet, the emotional result is the same on the small child that I was.

I'm also feeling guilty because now I am feeling like a victim. Before I started to address my past I unconsciously acted like a victim but I never felt like one.
 
Dave/Mr. Toots:
You wrote:
My guilt stems from the mildness of my abuse compared to other stories I've read. My sexual abuse was once with the swim teacher and 4 times with the neighbor. That's nothing compared to what most of you have been through.
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Unfortuantely, many survivors tend to compare their abuse consequences or severity with others. While it may make sense that forcible rape is more severe than spanking or being exposed to, in reality, everyone has some effects that are subjective and personal. If you try to compare your abuse to another, it may diminish the effects in your mind while you have been traumatized.

You really can't compare whether your abuse was worse or "better" than another's. Abuse is subjective. I've seen survivors who have been horribly abused (based on the continuum that an obscene phone call or frottage or exposure or peeping is "not as bad" as oral sex, fondling, penetration, forcible rape, satanic abuse, etc.) and they were in better shape than someone who was "mildly abused." You are in the best place to evaluate the effects on you, regardless of how "serious" the abuse was.

One of my earliest dealings with a survivor was a person who received an obscene phone call. While I had gotten a few of them and laughed them off as pathetic, this person wound up changing the locks on the doors, altering the commute to work and having severe sleep problems because of fear that the person knew the address and would attack. Around that time, I was working with a person who was a survivor of ritual abuse and was functioning pretty well, considering what had occurred.

You never know.

Ken
 
Ken,

Thanks. And LOL do you guys learn that in LCSW school? Because that is exactly what my T said although his examples were different. And the more I read ( I've spent a considerable amount of time reading old posts) the effects are the same no matter the severity of the abuse.

Dave
 
EGL,

make sure that what you feel guilty of, it is truly your own guilt, and not that which you acquired just as 'survivor guilt'. I have made (many) mistakes, and caused misunderstandings, and hurt feelings before. And I do feel guilt of it. But I am starting to understand that much of the guilt that I DO carry, it is NOT mine. And then, some that others say is not mine, well, I guess mentally I am not able to let it go yet.

Also, something I am starting to realize: I can say 'I'm sorry' to someone if I feel for them, and wish they don't hurt, without taking on the guilt or responsibility of it being MY fault. Sorry, that is just something very new to me.

Leosha
 
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