growing out of/into love

growing out of/into love
S

SAR

Hi Lost Spark and welcome to MS. :)

This is part of a post from LeeAnne's thread "Help me help someone I love", I started to respond to it and thought that maybe it could use its own topic.

Originally posted by Lost Spark:
That's one thing I fear with my boyfriend. That something could stir within him. Like some emotion will awaken and tell him, "hey, you don't really love her."
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I could have written this two years ago. Probably my biggest fear about my boyfriend in the beginning was that he would "outgrow" me as he healed. I started reading about effects of sexual abuse in men, and thought, "That's my boyfriend! and THAT'S my boyfriend!... but if so many of the traits that define him are these unhealthy symptoms... if he gets healthy, who will he become? If he's been making bad decisions all these years... and he made the decision to be with me... what if I'm a bad decision for him?" And sometimes when we were talking about issues in the relationship that had previously been trouble for him (like safe driving with the kids, or financial stuff), he would say "I'm not that guy anymore." which HE meant to be reassuring but it scared me even more, because "that guy" was the guy who had committed to me.

When I said this to him, he laughed and said, "Why would I leave the only person I trusted to tell?" Which again he meant to be reassuring but it didn't really answer my question, which was "How can I know that this relationship will grow with you?"

The thing I had to realize real quick-- and I'm only talking about myself here-- is that by saying "how can this relationship grow" I was admitting that it wasn't just him who had some healing to do, it was me, and it was the relationship.

I'm not proud to say this, but part of what made me feel good about my relationship, before he disclosed, even when it was TERRIBLE, was that I believed he would never leave me. Not that I believed we'd be happy forever, just that he'd never actually have what it takes to leave, even if he wanted to. I had a lot of power. I didn't realize how important that power was to me until I saw how threatened I was by his recovery.

I had to look inside myself to know why I had chosen a relationship with this kind of "safety net"-- what issues did I have about equality and abandonment in my relationships? And if I wanted to build a healthy future with my boyfriend, I had to put my energy into holding up MY end of it, rather than into his issues.

I mean, no two people can share a life for years without hurting each other along the way-- and we were both messed up and had done more than our share of hurting, however unintentionally. But I was really afraid of the day that he would turn around and hold ME accountable for some of the ways that I'd hurt him, and afraid of the day that he decided that he deserved more power in a relationship than I was ready to give.

For me, and for my boyfriend, this has been about learning different ways to love each other, and show our love for each other. (as Dave said in the other post)-- it's about recognizing that our relationship is a choice made out of mutual caring, responsibility, respect and trust, not out of stagnation, fear, guilt, dependency. In a way it was always about those good things, but we were treating the relationship like it was made out of the bad ones, do you know what I mean?
 
SAR, he sounds just like me, and I know you read so much about guys freakin out in relationships and ditching those who have supported them.

When I said this to him, he laughed and said, "Why would I leave the only person I trusted to tell?"
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Why would he want to get rid of the one he trusted all of this too? I dunno, probably his mind may not be able to show just how much he loves you.

I numb out my emotions too, but I have a real feeling for those I get to know in here, and because they have shared their lives with me, and we have shared the burden together.

There can be such a strong bond in this place, through shared hurt, and also the good side, like the jokey stuff. :)

ste
 
"I mean, no two people can share a life for years without hurting each other along the way-- and we were both messed up and had done more than our share of hurting, however unintentionally. But I was really afraid of the day that he would turn around and hold ME accountable for some of the ways that I'd hurt him, and afraid of the day that he decided that he deserved more power in a relationship than I was ready to give."

Oh boy - this is a tough one!

All I can say is that I, too, have been terrified of being "wrong:" For many survivors & those who come from abusive families-of-origin, being "wrong" = "being unlovable." It hooks into our terror of being alone, abandoned, & useless.

On the other hand, now that my friend has finally felt safe enough to express his anger at me, I feel oddly relieved! By being held responsible for my hurtful actions, I can feel as if I have been important enough to have had some kind of impact - even if it has been a negative one at times.

Once my hurtful actions have been pointed out to me, I can decide to try to change. Strangely enough, the very thing that I feared the most (being "wrong") has been the most enlightening, liberating factor in my own healing process.

This does not mean, though, that the relationship will ever be healthy & supportive & intimate - but without my reconciling my true actions with my incorrect interpretation of their impact on my Loved One, the relationship would NEVER stand a chance.

As has been said here soooooo many times before: I can only change ME. I can't change HIM. But - if I don't recognize that certain things about me need to change.... well, you see where I am going with this.

Hugs to everyone!
 
SAR,

This is a toughie. My soon to be ex-wife said something like that to me a couple years ago, that maybe when I was healthier I would decide I didn't want to be with her. As it turned out, I decided I didn't want to be with her when she began hurting the kids to punish me for trying to get past her affairs and salvage our marriage.

Gee, I hope I don't sound as bitter as I think I that came out.

I wish she had understood that "it's about recognizing that our relationship is a choice made out of mutual caring, responsibility, respect and trust." She has her own survivor issues and even after 16 years together I don't know much about them except that the fear and shame still own her. :(

Sometimes the "toughies" are where I learn the most.

Thanks,

Joe
 
SAR,

I just felt all the blood in my veins drain to the floor as I read your post. BTW, thank you for posting this in a different topic. Since my boyfriend told me about his abuse, it has surely been a rollercoaster ride of emotions between the two of us. No doubt, we do love each other immensely, but there are still those insecurities within each of us that makes us question different aspects of our lives and relationship. For one, I question, "when he gets 'better,' he'll feel there's someone else better out there for him..like, "I'm cured. Now I can go on."' It sounds childish I know, but these are just sentiments I can't seem to push off at many times.

But, then, on his side, his insecurities that stem from what happened to him years ago, make him feel to believe that he doesn't deserve me. He feels that I deserve someone better who doesn't carry so much emotional baggage and trauma. Someone normal. With that, he tends to push me away at times when we argue over something completely different. It's such a defense mechanism that he has. He feels that he can put up a wall or a barrier and keep me from coming in. I understand that its confusion and fear of being vulnerable.

There are times where I feel like I'm not 'cut out' to be in this relationship. It is much harder to handle at times because I have to worry at so many moments that I might be making a bad moment for him or that communication is a little tougher to establish because of different emotions fogging up our focus.

I must admit that we do have our share of fights at many times, but one general thing we tend to agree on is that it is not healthy to have our anger, emotions and frustrations standing in front of us for too long. We try to deal with the issue at hand right there and try not to drag on for days. We want to fix it and keep going. Now, I ask myself though, is it unhealthy to argue and have disagreements more often than a person would consider 'normal?'

I rationalize it this way, but please let me know if I am wrong here, or what I need to do because this is my only source of advice and I really appreciate it. For one, the root of our arguments and frustrations always have to deal with some kind of insecurity issue, or fear or questioning that we may have buried underneath. Or at many times, communication breaks down and one of us is putting up a wall to protect ourselves. Secondly, because there is so much there to deal with, of course there will be much more 'work' and care into what we have. But, what emerges from it is stronger. A much closer bond.

I feel that a relationship with a Survivor needs to undoubtedly be considered a strong friendship/bond before anything. Trust is the main element there, right? Take away the intimacy. Take away the lovey dovey feelings one has for each other. Strip away all the elements of a relationship and what is it built ontop of? A strong strong friendship as well. My boyfriend is my ultimate best friend in this world. I have no doubt in my mind that one day we will marry, only building our bond.

But, still, I can't help but still have those insecurities. What is wrong with me? It feels like 2 people inside my head are pulling me in two different directions. How can I make myself stop doubting and begin to 'heal' myself as well, so I can continue to strive to be the best supporter, partner, girlfriend and best friend to my boyfriend?

Sorry this is all so mixed. Just many thoughts I have had for months. That's what I get for keeping quiet for so long.

You all are so inspiring to me. Thank you for your words and I am so happy to be here.
 
Well I guess I was right about other people maybe wanting to talk about this :)

I should mention that these days I am not worried about this stuff so much, my boyfriend and I are healthier, kinder partners these days... and this fear is pretty much gone for me. Maybe because now that he's taking back some power and involvement in his life, I can better trust him when he says he's committed. (By the way, ste, he's better at the emotions too now... it helps so much)

But this particular fear loomed so large for me in the beginning, and was such a wake up call to me about what I could do and where I needed to focus, and when I went to respond to Lost Spark's post (hi again, Lost Spark, I promise not to run away with every post you make ;) ) I realized that I had a lot to say about it.

You guys have shown me again what a wonderful resource this forum is-- this is a place where male survivors and their partners can come and say, "This is how abuse has shaped my relationship, this is how I'm working to reshape it," and get caring, supportive words of wisdom. It's really not about blame, and it's not about standing around, continuing to be hurt, because "we can't change HIM." It's about, as kolisha said, enlightening and liberating ourselves.

It's easy to blame every problem in a relationship on one issue, and I think easier to do that when we're talking abuse-- because then it really does get to be "neither one's fault"-- it's the perp's fault-- and to some degree this adds a needed perspective. I know that my boyfriend would shed his intimacy issues if he could. I know that I would have had healthier ideas about respect and power if I'd had a chance to learn them. It doesn't help us to be angry at each other because the problems exist. And it would have been easy for me to say, "Look, I didn't hurt you, I didn't put this unhealthy stuff in your head," without ever examining how I had reinforced any of the hurtful, unhealthy stuff. But in the end, that doesn't help either.

Thanks,
SAR
 
Spark! Hi! :D
I ask myself though, is it unhealthy to argue and have disagreements more often than a person would consider 'normal?'
I rationalize it this way, but please let me know if I am wrong here, or what I need to do because this is my only source of advice and I really appreciate it.
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No one here can really say if talking everything out this way is wrong or right for you. For me and my boyfriend, this kind of "let's talk it out right now" attitude was not right, because neither of us really listened to the other one when we did this.

I know just what you mean when you say that insecurity and fear of abandonment are causing most of your fights. So much of the time what it really comes down to is that you both just want the other one to love you, and be loved by you, and it seems like there's no way to say it.

You don't have to answer this, but I wonder if you feel that age plays a role in some of these issues for you. My boyfriend and I started dating in high school. He didn't go right from being abused into a relationship with me, but it was pretty damn close. I think sometimes that I was more susceptible to fearing that our relationship was all just "acting out" because of where he was in the beginning.

I do think it is friendship that carried us through, during those times when we found it hard to be partners to each other. It was our friendship that made me commit to supporting him. Even when I wasn't sure that we would stay together as a couple, I felt sure that I could be there for him as his friend, listen to him and help him in any way that a friend would.

Listen to him. Believe him. Give him the chance to talk about it in his own way, recover in his own way, make mistakes and learn from them. Encourage him when he makes positive steps. And allow yourself to have strong emotions about all of this stuff, too... this forum is a good place for the emotions that are better kept away from your boyfriend for the moment.

SAR
 
Here's an old thread from a year and a half ago that I think addresses alot of the issues going on here on F&F right now so I thought I'd give it a bump.

ROCK ON........Trish
 
Trish, wow, very helpful. We must seem sort of redundant to the oldies that have been here before us, for our situations are SOOOOOO similar!!! This is a great one and it's helped me a lot - thanks.
 
BH - We all ask the same questions; we all have the same fears and we all seek the same hope. Nothing is repeated too often here. Every time there is a similar conversation or question, there is a new spin put on it by someone new or someone a little or alot further down the road which is helpful to everyone all around. Expressing ourselves and learning new perspectives on things is never redundant, so please don't think that I think that.

I've been here just over a year and find new stuff all the time. I'd never read this thread before I found it this morning.

There is a wealth of information on this board and it never gets old.

ROCK ON........Trish
 
Yet another enlightening thread. Trish, you mentioned a link to another thread but I don't see it in your post, can you please point me to it?
 
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