Gotta have something to blame, why not the SA?

[jaywho]

Edited because I did't wanna hurt anyone.

Marc your comment: Jaywho, I know you were expressing your opinions here, and that's OK. Until it crosses the line to pile guilt on us. I have had enough of that.

It wasn't my intention. I'm sorry I actually thought it was supportive!!!

 

[Bill_1965]

First of all, not all my negative characteristics are from my SA. Some are, such as; porn, fear of heights, fear of party stores. Some aren't, such as; fear of water, fear of abandonment, flinching when someone makes a move in my periphel vision. Some of the fears related to SA I had no idea of the relationship of the two until I started to work on the SA issues.

Ultimately though, cant change anyone but yourself!

I don't think that anybody here has said anything but that. I can only change myself. You can only change yourself. What we offer here is support to each other while we are doing that.

I beleive it may be less the SA and more the morals and characters of a person driving them to be the person that they are.

The reasoning for the behaviors may be related to the SA. The desire to change those behaviors are most likely to meet the morals/characteristics that we'd like to be. The desire to change has to be rooted in something, we won't change unless we have a reason to. Why go through the pain and agony of changing just for the hell of it.

It's hard enough to live with the memory; must also be hard by others keeping it alive!

The memory will always be alive. We have memory of it even when we don't remember it; thus it will affect us. By working on the issues caused by it, we can retrain ourselves to behave and feel the way we want despite the memories and thus lesson the effects of them. But they will always be there. You just don't forget. As they are processed, they hurt less and affect less. That is the purpose.

The more we focus on SA being a reason for every reaction the more we prove the perps are winning at ruining their lives!

The more we ignore the problems of SA and allow it to rule our lives subconciously the more they win. The more we work through and allow it to affect us less, the more they lose. Not every problem in our lives is because of SA. But as we work through a problem we have to look at the possible causes, SA being one of them.

 

[jaywho]

I agree however, I'm just saying that doesn't it piss you off to think your doing great then all the sudden you screw up, have a drink . . was it cause your SA or cause you were out with some pals and wanted a beer. If it was cause you just wanted a beer, your wife screamed about it . . when would you then draw the line. Something I wanted/ or something it caused.

I just think my hubby would go nuts me always second guessing. Why can't some things you do just be cause you wanted to. I drink a beer and it's cause I like the taste? See what I mean.

I feel like it would be although you already have it in your mind a reminder and from a loved one, it would hurt. When would you allow yourself to be free/ never second guessing the motive.

Just a thought, I do beleive you gotta think about why you do things but if you do "bad" I would think blaming it on SA would set you back to ground one! Your trying to overcome, seeing that you fell would cause you to give up after awhile, I would think.

Not a survivor just think it would hurt if I was reminded and second quessed by the one person I love the most!

 

[Bill_1965]

It's not so much what you do as why you do it.

Drinking can be a social activity which is a healthy experience. Drinking can also be a masking technique witch isn't. Drinking can be just fun and it depends on what extremes it is taken too. This goes for many other things, things that may or may not affect those around you.

About a year ago, I did something that is quite common or at least not unusual. There wasn't anything wrong with it except why I did it. In response to a flashback. That made it a problem. Today I continue, but now I do it because I like it. It doesn't affect anybody negatively so what the heck. The why not the what. Why - uncontrolled impulsive reaction to SA memories - Bad. Why - because I like it - no problem.

Three people can do the same thing. One will be going about a problem. One will be just having fun and enjoying it. And another will be pressured into it. Same thing, different reasons. Sometimes it is just having a good time, enjoying. Sometimes it is acting out.

Being a spouse/SO to anybody, SA survivor or not, does not give them a free pass to walk all over you. Nor does it give you the right to push on him.

 

[SAR]

jaywho,

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about.

I didn't come here because I felt my boyfriend went out and had too many beers with the guys, and I don't think too many of the other partners are here for that either. I think most of us are here because when we started learning about the effects of sexual abuse on males, we recognized more than a few of those effects in the men we live with.

I would never have thought to associate my boyfriend's trouble expressing anger or his self-destructive habits specifically with the fact that he'd been abused as a boy, until I saw how many other sexually abused men deal with the very same things, and how those things can be rooted in sexual abuse. And I don't think I'm blaming him or keeping the memories of his abuse alive because I am stating that those are problems for him and they are problems that have affected him and us.

I feel sorry for the men here too, but not because some of them have partners who care enough to try and understand the causes behind the pain they deal with instead of writing off their SO's destructive behavior as bad character.

Just my opinion.

SAR

 

Jaywho,

I beleive it may be less the SA and more the morals and characters of a person driving them to be the person that they are. }

Yes, we choose sometimes to do self-destructive things because we want them. But to lump it all into that is a disservice to survivors. A lot of our coping mechanisms were learned over time just to keep from exploding.

It is not a moral issue. Or a character issue. To imply that would make us question everything. Even our abuse. Was I born morally defective or born with lack of a good character? I don't think so.

I just feel sorry for some of these guys cause so much is banked on the abuse they suffered.

I lived my life for over 30 years believing that I was the problem. That that was something I deserved. I can promise you that my lack of esteem, my fear of people and the general feeling of worthlessness would not be here if it weren't for men that degraded me. Nor would the guilt and shame. Your comment sounds a bit condescending to me. Just my opinion.

The more we blame the more they think they cant overcome.

Not true. It is not blaming the SA, it is understanding what it has done. That's why so many of us endure the pain of therapy. We don't want it as an excuse for anything. We want to HEAL.

The more we focus on SA being a reason for every reaction the more we prove the perps are winning at ruining their lives!

I seriously doubt that survivors are blaming every single thing on the SA. But most of us were kids. It shaped our lives. Our responses. If I run a red light and get a ticket, I would hardly blame that on SA.

I can assure you that NO male survivor who came here came because he wanted to. He did it because he was either desparate or wanted to know he was not alone.

Jaywho, I know you were expressing your opinions here, and that's OK. Until it crosses the line to pile guilt on us. I have had enough of that.

This is MaleSurvivor. It is a place for us to be able to be free to discuss our feelings and our experience. Without having to be challenged again by doubt of others.

I know you don't mean to hurt anyone here, but I ask you to remember that what you say can hurt people. We have to fight against ignorance of our experiences too much. Give us a chance to be able to voice what we have to. Because for too long, we had no voice.

Peace,

Marc

 

[jaywho]

It's hard enough to live with the memory; must also be hard by others keeping it alive!

That was NEVER to place guilt or underestimate the affects of SA. It was a statement in support I thought of the Survivor. I would hate to think everything I do had a reason that went back to such an awful memory. It was to remind supporters to think about all the reasons and not just that one.


Like lets say the porn problem. I have healthy friends in relationships; myself included that once in a while like the thrill of something different. I am not a survivor of SA. I've brought them home with no help from my husband when we were just married for something new.

I used the beer cause I didn't wanna step on toes, let's say it was Internet porn. Lots of people think it's bad but why do we always blame it on SA. How about your wife had a baby 3 months ago and you haven't slept with her without the baby under her arm. Your human nature would wanna have sex, you come upon a pop up while checking your email. Sex has been on your mind for days; your wife's in bed. Why can't you look to have a turn on without it being because SA? Then your wife looks through the history on the computer, she nags for days. She doesn't understand your “needs” and thinks it's not only immature but because of your history you'd do such a thing. Don't blame me after all, I'm sorry but our relationship is on hold cause I've got a baby now?!

Is that fair, would you get mad cause she didn't see your side. Would it then question you enough to make you second guess yourself, would you not remember your pain over again.

That is what I'm saying.

 

Jaywho,

All I can say is that you have never been in our shoes.

We don't do things like you are talking about as a preference. Or a desire.

Please, you really have no clue of what this is like. I am single and unattached. Always have been. But I still face the same challenges you talk about.

You keep saying that we "blame it on the SA". That's like saying that because I am gay, there is an underlying reason that I should face and am denying.

Jaywho, there are many fine partners of survivors here. They never excuse the actions of their partners. But neither do they trivialize their partners' feeling.

For myself, I don't want an excuse for what I do that is wrong. But there are things I do that ARE related and a direct cause of the abuse.

Imagine being three and having your step-father penetrating you. Don't you think that would screw you up??

Stop blaming the victim! We are healing here. Don't, I beg you, continue to talk about something you have no idea about.

From what I read in your message, your husband is not a survivor. And you are not a secondary survivor.

This is a safe place for survivors and their friends and family. Don't compromise that safety.

You make it sound like the old saw "get over it".

I'm sorry, but I have a major problem with the way you talk here.

Marc