Good, Better, Confused

Good, Better, Confused
G

Gary - CDN

Registrant
Hi Guys:

Its been a while for me, posting that is. Been lurking about and keeping a low profile lately due to the following.

As for the good news, I am entering week 9 of a 10-week Group program that is finally starting to show results. It was tough at first (that's why the disappearance), but each week I seem to learn more and more about the crap we have all been through. Just hearing similar stories and events from total strangers lets me know I am not alone in my pain. The real shock has been the similarities in behavior patterns etc. that we all have developed and expressed in one-way or another. And all these years I thought it was just me.

Now the better news. The whole group has taken a vote and after a 2-week break, we are going to stick together and continue our sessions through the summer. That put such a smile on my face.

As for the confusion, I was wondering if what I am presently going through has happened to any of you. I am in a long-term relationship with a lady and as I go farther along my healing journey, I seem to be drifting farther away from her to the point her concern, touch or anything intimate triggers me towards anger. I guess more accurately, the feeling I experience is one of not being safe. After weeks of discussion in group, I have come to realize that all of my anger is coming out at home. None at work, none throughout all my other relationships in life. Just at home when things get intimate or emotional. If she gets close, I dont feel safe and I run. The other pattern that sticks out like a sore thumb is my ability to avoid dealing with her by any means possible. She is such a trigger, I learned to creatively keep my distance by any means possible.

As I learn more about myself, my dreams, my wishes and feelings I have never felt or expressed, I am drifting farther away.

Any insight would be helpful guys,

Always keeping a good thought,
 
Gary I'm glad you're group is going so well.

As I learn more about myself, my dreams, my wishes and feelings I have never felt or expressed, I am drifting farther away.
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Gary all I can say is I've found this not only in my SA recovery but other big steps I've taken in life. Sometimes it just means leaving some people behind for my & their own good. Sometimes it means
a lot of relational work to be done to keep a good
thing going both in the relationship & in my progress in life at the same time.

Sorry I've probably done nothing to ease your confusion & may have added to it. Fact is I experience so much of what you're talking about, and I've been married 23 years! :confused:

Victor
 
I seem to be drifting farther away from her to the point her concern, touch or anything intimate triggers me towards anger. I guess more accurately, the feeling I experience is one of not being safe.
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I don't know what to say, it's strange to see someone else write what I'm afraid to say myself. I've been married 17 years and I find myself in the same place you are. It's like we live together as room mates that just happen to share a bed. We havent had sex in two month, I can't stop seeing my step father when we try. Feeling's of not being safe..wow...talk about hitting the nail on the head. Thank you for saying this, I needed to hear it. This is one thread I'm going to follow.
James
 
I've been married for 29 years this July, and I'm in the same boat.
Which might be disheartening to hear when I also say that my recovery is very good.

But the up-side is that I know why my sex life has troubles. Like so many I still see my abusers when I should be making love with my wife.
I see their faces and remember their acts, and I don't want that anymore.

I've taken a lot of advice from many guys here and I now stop making love when the memories kick in. It's drastic I know, but I don't want to associate one with the other.

I'm also 'learning' to cuddle and caress again. Not with the express purpose of it leading to making love, but to .........remember why I'm there, if that makes sense.

I guess I'm starting over, but it's good fun trying.

Dave
 
Gary My good friend who has helped me in so many ways,all I can say is .Your healing is the most imporyant thing right now.
I seem to be drifting farther away from her to the point her concern, touch or anything intimate triggers me towards anger.
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Gary I went on for years with very little of a relationship with my wife. She told me so many times that she wanted out, that she didn't love me any more and it was all over. Well things aren't great but we are making progress. I learned to get close to each other without sex being part of it.
I agree with Dave.
I'm also 'learning' to cuddle and caress again. Not with the express purpose of it leading to making love, but to .........remember why I'm there, if that makes sense.
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It may be her thinking that makes you mad but if you learn to put the anger away it will help you heal. Try some C&C ,Cuddle & Caress and make time to talk things out, avoding her get's you no where in the long run. I do know that with Time & Talk things can get better. Best of luck. Muldoon
 
Hi Gary: It is me Mike here:

If she gets close, I dont feel safe and I run. The other pattern that sticks out like a sore thumb is my ability to avoid dealing with her by any means possible. She is such a trigger, I learned to creatively keep my distance by any means possible.
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boy I could have written that. I have been married 36 years almost. Yeh she was a trigger but for all the wrong reasons. I could not share intimacy and that made me terribly angry. I could not let someone close and that made me terribly angry. Our sex life was awful and that made me angry. I was distant and that made me angry. I was jealous of her sense of self worth and that made me angry. I felt guilty that she picked damaged goods and that made me angry. i felt that I was a lousy husband and partner and that made me angry.

My anger was at myself and I could not show my anger at work, except in brief outbursts. So who did I take in out on. the one person on this earth who loves me; my wife. I did the same thing to my daughter. I ttry to not do that anymore but I do slip on occasion. The wonderful thing is that my wife knows my true feelings about her. Feelings that I did ont think I had otr was worthy of having.

I hope this has not confused you Gary. I am just trying to show you a different slant on it.

Your brother wolf
Mike

AAAAAAAAAWWWWWHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHH
 
Damn...

Gary i don't think this is going to help but i too feel the same way...
I have just started my journy in this healing process an since i have my life seems to be worse than it was..

I have been married for 10 yrs now and my Wife and Daughter mean the world to me.

But i too get Angry and frustrated with her and allowing my self to love her and her love me in return i get angry and F@ck Off to try my best for her to hate me i don't want the love that hurts and that gets me even more angry with my self since i should be able to allow people to love me but my grandfather took that from me and that makes me angry as well and i scream & cry and push the ones away i love

gary i feel for ya cause i know your pain since for me some time C&C isn't what my wife would like and then too another fight where her frustratioins comes out saing (she is not him why can't i love her ) and that to gets me angry that i can't forget and love her for her

i am hating thoughs Words

( I LOVE YOU )

Gary sorry i couldn't help just know that i feel for ya

Confused n Alone

Jason
 
God, some good things get said here.

Have you noticed how we're all related.

I mean, do we come from the same family.

Is it in the genes?

For sure it's in our backgrounds.

Why the anger with these people--wives, partners, children--that we're closest to?

I guess it's hard for us to see, really see, that these people, are not THOSE people.

Where did it happen? With whom did it happen?

These places and people were most familiar to us.
Most primary to us.

When we experience love and concern, and not with the yucky stuff, we can't believe it. We can't really believe that someone is loving us, and, of course, that they are expecting us to love them in return.

And this can be the literal kicker in the balls; some of our perps, expected us, to love them, in return.

Where do we begin?

I couldn't believe that my spouse thought of me as handsome.

I couldn't believe that she enjoyed being naked with me.

I couldn't believe that she didn't ridicule me when I've cried after sex that I never believed I would ever have.

I have a hard time believing that she still wants to stay with me, buy erotic massage books and cover my body with rose oil.

God, guys as we head into this weekend, my thoughts are with you and my hope is that you will have some of the most enjoyable--yes, enjoyable--intimate times with your partners possible.

Ya, buy some rose oil.
Look into their faces, look into their eyes, they are not your/our perps, they will never be your/our perps.

Tell them how important they are to you. Tell them how much they mean to you. Tell them how much you love them.

That whatever little love that you do have...........is theirs.

Tell them that you are working hard to not let your past interfere with your relationship with them, because you love them so much.

Count to 10 when you feel yourself getting angry.

Excuse yourself and go outside. Come here, if you have to.

Tell yourself that they are not the ones who deserve your/our anger.

Be gentle with yourself, with them this weekend.

Try to relax. Plan for it.

Please, guys, have a good weekend and come back with a story or two of how you/we treated our partners and ourselves to times of enjoyment and love.

Blessings, guys,

David
 
Jason
But i too get Angry and frustrated with her and allowing my self to love her and her love me in return i get angry and F@ck Off to try my best for her to hate me
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How many years did I do just that ? to f****g many.
I tried all ways to get my wife to avoid me. I went to bed later than her even if I stayed up until the early hours of the morning. I kept out of her way to avoid cuddling and kissing. And guess what ? it worked. In the end we were so distant we might just as well have been strangers.
It's a struggle, but we're repairing the damage slowly.
The fact is we never stopped loving each other, I just stopped showing it, and activly fought against it.

David
God, guys as we head into this weekend, my thoughts are with you and my hope is that you will have some of the most enjoyable--yes, enjoyable--intimate times with your partners possible.
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Once again you give me hope, thanks for a wonderful post.

Dave
 
It's a struggle, but we're repairing the damage slowly.
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And today I did a little repair job, nuff said. ;) :rolleyes: :o

Dave
 
All,

Thank you for sharing; it halps shed light at a painful part of SA.

Here is something that occurs from reading your posts: Is it possible that SAs get angry at those that love them because that's where they feel safest to express feelings, even if it is in a form of anger?

I can't see doing that at work or in public. But with those they love it may be more acceptable. Also, that is where emotions and intimacy would surface in the first place.

I like Lloydy's idea to stop when images appear ro avoid wrong associations. There are too many bad ones attached to good things as it is. And it takes time to create right kind of associations.

Peace,
Freedom
 
Freedom
I am rarely angry with other people, I used to be about 20 years ago and I got past that.
But the anger obviously stayed and I turned it on myself.

So any time something went 'wrong', either between us, with either of us individually or whatever I would rage at myself - silently.

This is what killed my sex life. I would have the memories of the abuse coming through, or the fantasies ( re-enacment of the abuse ) and I would try to stop them. Fail, and go into my deep internal rage which stopped sex stone cold dead.
Which fuelled my rage even more.

But the worst thing was I hid it so well, the rage that is, and my wife thought I was struggling with partial impotence - or I just didn't find her attracive any more. So she backed off.
Which if I'm honest suited me because I was failing so often.

So then I'd masturbate to see if it still worked, to my fantasies of course, and it did work.
Then that started a round of guilt and shame, which fed my rage.

And with the wonderful benefit of hindsight, it would probably been a fairly easy fix if I'd had the ability to disclose and share my problems in the very early stages.
But after 25 years of marriage, and at least 10 of them on this downward spiral, I was trapped because the problem was just compounding around me.

There's a huge amount of catching up to be done for me, but I try and I learn.
I refuse to give in to my old memories and fantasies, a new fantasy, about the woman who lives up the road for instance, I can deal with.
A fantasy is harmless, it's escaping to what we dream about. But my old ones aren't really fantasies I suppose, they're a distorted vision of my past and my abuse.
So when they kick in, which they still can, I just say "sorry, I need a break" and switch off for a few minutes. Then when I feel ready we start again.

It's not like we see in the movies I guess, but we're both so much happier that I'm not thinking about those bastards and what they did.

Dave
 
Lloydy,

Thank you for such a personal insight. I know about the anger stuffed deep inside. It comes from being raised in a pretty much male-dominated world without the benefit of understanging emotions as a positive part of life. Even anger was to be repressed. Female role models who manipulated from a position of powerlessness to get what they wanted did not help either.

Hence, now I am finding myself with loads of anger and most of the time I cannot recognize where it is coming from. So I am learning to ask myself questions about it but it is early stages yet for me in that department. It seems like my past has been composed of so many lies.

As for fantasies, I used to live in that world but now I try to focus on things the way I want them to be. I have always had a pretty clear image of a marriage relationship but have not seen it in real life. So I followed what the world offered as "normal". Now, I focus on that image that is not going away and I am seeing positive results in some of my relationships.

I still cannot see myself as a distinct, valuable human being. The message that grew up with was that you are what you do; all pretty goal-oriented and narrow. I do, however, believe now in my intrinsic value. For me it was a matter of putting my faith in God over the immediate images of men. I feel whole when I thin of myself as His child.

I keep thinking, with someone as powerful as that in my corner, who do I fear. Not all of the fear is gone yet, but life is easier to manage now. It is scary to opt to go through life cosciously but I am doing it! It hurts and it is dreadful at times, but I am doing it. I live with the pain while looking for alternatives.

I have thought about focusing on my recovery and shotting the world out. I tried it and it did not work. I came to the conclusion that the only way this will work for me is if it happens in a relational setting. After all, it is, in part, what happens here.

Peace,
Freedom.
 
Sorry for the delay in replying guys, but this one is tough. Ivanhoe summed it up best with the following:

Have you noticed how we're all related? I mean, do we come from the same family. Is it in the genes? For sure it's in our backgrounds.

The one nice thing I have found in the last while with the group work and this board is that you are never alone. No matter what you think or feel, we all seem to have shared so much of the same.

As for my problem, my girlfriend and I have had conflicting schedules for about 2 weeks and time alone with each other was really limited. When we started spending time together and dealing with family/personal or just daily issues, the anger surfaced and again I started to distance myself. It really hits home when I get into a position where I have no say and the decisions seem made for me. What really sticks in my mind here is that 2-week gap. There was work stress etc. but no outbursts of anger. Not a hint at all. It was 2 weeks of peaceful living; something I can't remember having for years. Then, as soon as we are back together spending time with each other it hits me and I am angry at anything.

Right now I am trying to focus on the root cause but in some ways I just dont care. It would be nice to cuddle up and talk but I really dont have the urge anymore. In one way it seems she is part of my past; she relates to the old Gary. The new Gary who is just starting to discover his own thoughts, feelings and emotions is having a hard time trying to relate to the choices the old Gary made? (Make sense?).

Anyway, I am still muddling along and on the upside, my group is back in action on Wednesday and I am sure this will get some good coverage.

Thanks for all the input guys. I will keep you all posted.

Always keeping a good thought,

Gary
 
Gary,

Glad to hear from you again. Sorry things are not better between you & your girlfriend. Intimacy seems tough for many of us in one way or another.
So truly you're not alone in this, or in anything.

The new Gary who is just starting to discover his own thoughts, feelings and emotions is having a hard time trying to relate to the choices the old Gary made? (Make sense?).
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Oh yes, I'm afraid it does...

Gary I'm glad you have the support of your group to go to Wednesday. You've got support here too.

Take care

Victor
 
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