Going nucking futs

Going nucking futs
The whole affection/sex thing.

It doesn't matter to me if a man is gay or straight. None of my straight friends give a damn that I'm gay. By calling myself gay, am not labeling any more then when someone calls themself straight.

Now that that's out of the way. Affection often leads to sex. Men do have testosterone and a sex drive, this is normal and healthy. What's not healthy is loveless, cheap, degrading sex. But who said that's the type of sex you have to have? Sex can, believe it or not, be a very healing activity at times. It's a trust and expression of intimacy and love between two people. At least that's what it should be. I said earlier that I still feel uncomfortable with sex sometimes. This is true. But I'm still healing. And my boyfriend never hurts me- he has taught me over the course of a year how to trust again for the first time in my life.

I agree with Jeff when he said it's hard to find appropriate people to meet. It is. And yes, there are creeps out there. I've met them. They're no good. My only advice is to look everywhere you can- talk to people a lot, get to know somebody. Post a personal ad on the net.

Thing is, when you actually meet someone from the internet, it's like meeting for the first time all over again. Because you are meeting them for the first time. I've had success and dissapointments in this. In the end though, searching is worth it. You never know when or where you'll finally meet a person to heal with. They might be a friend or a lover, it doesn't matter. The point is: at least TRY to find someone. Tho for me, it happened when I least expected and in a very unlikely turn of events. I got truly, stunningly lucky. Anyone can. And you guys deserve it, so it's got to happen for you if you're open to the possibility.

Take care all
-Justin
 
Everyone,

I think the measure of a man is to be able to admit that you are a being capable of great tenderness, sensitivity, and love, without being afraid of the world (men, women, society as a whole) crapping on you.

The great sin of "masculinity" in these United States is that we believe it to mean only violent dynamic emotions. When we admit that we aren't for that, when we say we need to hug, to hold, to love without strings, we are being men. We are being courageous. We are warriors with hearts as well as strength.

Justin, Jeff, the rest of you guys, I am declaring to you and the world that we are men! We are capable of love! We are capable of affection! We desire it! We need it! We aren't afraid to give it!

I love you all, my brothers, in the most fraternal, familial, intimate way. And I want nothing from you in return.

It's liberating, don't you think?

((((((((((Justin)))))))))))
((((((((((Jeff))))))))))

Peace and LOVE, my brothers and sisters!

Scot :D
 
It seems from the activity on this thread that it has wound down. Rats! The critic in my head berates me: too little, too late again; you're such a loser; you're so worthless; yada. When I began to read the thread, I felt slammed between the eyes with a maul. My typical, lifelong response to emotions is to deny them and pretend I am a logic machine. A major part of my therapy has been to break this denial and actually name my feelings. I needed time to really feel what was evoked. Then, of course, I got a very bad cold and stayed in the apartment yesterday (I do not own a computer and must rely on a university library for Internet access). So I'm just now posting. I hope I'm not too late.

Justin, welcome. I am so sorry that you suffered all the crap that happened. But I am glad you found us. I know you will find brothers who care, who understand, who will listen. Indeed, I actually envy you a little bit - without the resentment :) . You say you feel weird at 20 just discovering who you are? How about being 50 and just starting the same journey?

I do not consider myself gay (as much as I am able to, I suppose). Having sex with a man has no emotional attraction. But I confuse affection and sex horribly. So horribly that apart from the abuse my grandfather put me through, I have never had sex with either man or woman. I am terrified (not too strong a word, I think) of men and authority figures of either gender. I have also been emotionally abused by many women. But I still crave affection and I keep trying. Not so much, I think, to make up for what I didn't get as a child, but to enrich my present life. But I go about it all wrong. I grasp and cling and drive people away while trying to hang on to them. Even though I have been attending an Al-Anon group focusing on adult children of alcoholics for two years, I still have a hard time with the hugging. I am sexually stimulated by a gesture of simple affection :o .

I would have given anything to have some love and affection from my father. But he was too absorbed in the bottle to love anyone, even himself. I think that was his way to cope with his own pain; his father (the same man who abused me for three years from the age of two) abused all of his children male and female, including my father. I suppose, too, that because of my abuse, my father saw me as a litte fag and damaged goods. The night before my grandfather's funeral, my father and his youngest brother were drinking beer and scotch and getting really plastered. My uncle said something to my father about why he put up with that little fag, meaning me. My father, who was quick to take offense when sober and downright mean when drunk (he would go to some of the sleaziest dives in town and deliberately pick fights) never said a word: agreement by silence. That really hurt.

Justin, I too grew up making endless plans for killing my father. He made life hell for everyone around him. Because he would not do anything around the house, I was my mother's "little man of the house." Yes, indeed, besides the physical sexual abuse from my grandfather, I was emotionally incested by my mother. No child needs to be privy to the details of his parents' sexual relationship. No child should have to worry about where the next meal is going to come from. No child should have to come home from school to find the water and power shut off for non-payment. But there was one problem with my plots: I couldn't figure a way to kill him without being jailed and/or executed myself.

Jeff, you said:

When we are permitted to reach out, it is usually only to unite to defeat a common foe.

My first example of this is the love shown here for brothers at this site. My second example is when men join forces to rescue their deflated ego's and wounded little boy spirits from the women in their lives. (Yes, football counts, but I am not addrssing that here.)
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I'm afraid football or any athletic activity does not count for me. I had a bone disease as a young child which left me not quite up to snuff physically. My physical education teachers would not take that into account and I was constantly ridiculed and put down by teachers and my fellow students: "Oh, no. Why does Tom have to be on our team? Now we'll lose for sure." Nearly every schoolday for three fscking years! I can't read the sports section or watch sports on TV or go to games without having flashbacks and hearing that refrain. To me, sports means failure, ostracism, brutality, abuse, and ridicule.

Again, welcome, Justin. Stick around and you may very well find healing. Thanks for raising this subject.
 
Jeff,

Thank you for your words. I admit the hypersensitivity I have about the whole athletics thing. I lack that common bond with men around me and it often gets in the way of getting to know people.

Tom

P.S. That bone disease left me with one leg shorter than the other, to the point that I have to wear a lift on one of my shoes.
 
HOLY FUCK THOMAS

An awesome post.

I agree with your views on sports. The same thing happens to me. Fuck those games and cheering and bellowing. So much loudness. I always hated going to games. So fuck sports!

Ok ok, I'll start talking nicely.

So you get an erection when you hug someone. So what. There's nothing wrong with that. Try finding somebody else who is open to it. There's more then you think. After you get enough affection, erections become obsolete when hugging. At first, ANY physical contact may cause erection. I think there are clear reasons for this linked into the abuse. But so what. It's what we are, who we are. We CAN live with the truth.

Besides, what the fuck is so shameful about an erection in the first place? We must stop feeling shameful for our sexual desires. And stop being afraid of our sexual fears. Eventually we will all feel better about ourselves. It may take some time, but dammit, its gonna happen!

Jeff and Thomas- my respect
your friend Justin
 
jeff,

forget about having to be like anyone else. Just be YOU. Be who you WANT to be. You need do nothing else. Stop listening or even THINKING about negative things people have said about you- because believe me, it's ALL trash! So throw it out! Hang on to good thoughts, happy dreams, pleasant memories. You've gotta have a couple. You have time to make many more happy memories, don't forget! Just remember- if someone hurts you- they aren't worth YOUR time. So don't spend time thinking about them! Because they aren't WORTH it! It's simple, isn't it? You guys are so intelligent, so brave, so bold, it makes me proud to call you friends. You guys couldn't let me down if you tried. You'd still be my friends.

-Justin
 
LOL. hahaha

Jeffy!

If someone is too uptight to handle what you have to say, they are either heartless or confused about their own sexuality. Pay no attention to those who are unkind- they aren't worth your precious time, Jeff! I'm glad you have started making a better outlook for yourself. You're gonna be one of the winners in the end, Jeff. I know you will. You've got everything it takes, you just need to keep going out and getting it. And now that you've started with these small positive steps, why stop there? Take a moment to reflect on what a brilliant shining soul you have! I love you my friend.

-Your friend, Justin
 
btw don't worry about offending anyone- if they can't take the heat, they need to get the hell out of the kitchen. Don't worry about SOMEONE ELSE'S problems with you- those are THEIR problems, not YOUR problems. Let THEM deal with it. Any thing that you feel natural about doing you need feel no shame over. Take masturbation for instance. At one point, it made me feel very guilty. Society told me it was wrong and filthy. I got a little older and learned the truth, tho- that it's perfectly healthy and enjoyable. Such is the case with so many things we've been taught to be afraid of simply because it feels good. Maybe if all those hateful fuckers out there didn't dislike being happy we wouldn't be raised this way. Oh well. As adults, we can raise ourselves however we damn well want to! Think up. Think good. Think positive. Love ya, Jeff

Yer friend, Justin
 
Jeff. Just be honest with yourself and true to yourself. The most important person in your life is you. Well is what you want to be. You cannot dictate how others will relate to you. They have their own demons of some sort.

What you are doing is healing in your own way but never alone again. YOU GOT THAT!!!!!
 
Jeff...

You crack me so up...not for the "subject matter", but the way you verbalize it! :D I love your posts. Isn't this a great place to be, where you can say stuff and nobody freaks out or judges you, and you don't even have to be embarrassed! I hope you find a "hugger" that will be as understanding in person.

Justin... I need to thank you for giving me info that I needed. What a relief. I now know what to say to my little buddy.

Thank you all so much. You may feel weak and out of control etc, but you are strengthening others, which is the greatest strength of all. I hope I can be of some kind of help in some small way...being a non-male!

(((((Hugs!!!!))))

Lynn
 
You know what really sucks out of this whole damn thing? That we all got robbed of the chance to know what affection should be. Or can be.

I mean, even when we experience it for real, it's been clouded by what our perps did to us. I get so angry about that sometimes.

Would I want to respond to genuine affection? Do I want to just be held? Or will I always be afraid because of what the @$$hole did to me?

I don't know, gents. I honestly don't. I try to be more positive these days, but then another piece of my past comes up and hits me in the face. I cannot keep shrugging it off. It mattered. It hurt. And someone ruined my ability to give and receive physical affection for his own sick pleasure.

I've said it before. What I wouldn't give for someone to just hold me. Hold me. That's it.

I will feel worthy of that again, but I honestly don't know when. And that botheres me.

Thanks for the vent time.

Scot
 
Scot-

I'm giving you a great big fucking http formatted
hug right now. If the past still scars current affection, remember that scars take time love and patience to heal. For all of us. Give yourself all three and be open to recieving good things from others as well.
 
Originally posted by Justin113:
I have to make friends. I really need to talk to someone. I want to sit next to somebody and talk until I have nothing left to say.
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I went to an out of state family funeral on Friday. Before I left, I left a copy of the ten facts about male sexual abuse from this website for my partner to read. It is very difficult to bring these things up and talk to him about it even though we have been together for 18 years and talk a great deal about all sorts of other things. Leaving the copy was the only way I could think of to communicate the information and it took me a long time to think of that.

I have just begun to become conciously aware of the symptoms of the abuse I experienced. As I have become more and more aware, I have tried to express some of it to people around me. I am more open with people that I am certain care for me and are sensitive to the topic. With others I am more guarded, talk about it more generally, feel them out.

When I got back, I asked him if he had read what I left for him and what he thought of it.

He said he had seen me during dissasociative episodes. He didn't have a word for it before that. He just thought I was being "crazy."

What I am saying is that "craziness" is a perception and a perception is something that can change. And I am saying that it can be as difficult to talk to someone you have known for years as it is to talk to a stranger.

I have come to think that it is important to start the conversation as part of a healing process as soon as possible but I also think that it is important to control that transition, take it at a pace that is comfortable and to not force it.

If I had started the process when I was 20 I would be a different person today but I guess I had to experience a bunch of painful things over a period of years before I was ready.

Justin, you are a living survivor. We all are. As difficult and painful as the path of recovery can be I believe it is all downhill once the abuse is over and has been acknowledged. What can be worse than the abuse was? Justin, you are here. You have began talking.

Brett
 
Jeff and Brett,

In the past few weeks and even months my life has dramatically changed for the better. I went from being completely depressed and in a world of agony to being someone capable of living a life full of joy. Now that I've made this transition, I wish to help those who are pursuring the same path. Cause it's far from easy. Life sometimes hurts more then seems possible. But it DOES get better. Things like trust, security and love are things we build through time and effort and dedication. The first step is to take action and decide it's what you must do. The next step is to say to hell with your fears- you're bigger then your fears. Then you can begin to heal and enjoy life. For me, the healing process has been amazingly rapid once it started. It seemed to snowball, getting larger and larger faster and faster. And it feels amazing good. Take those first steps, guys. Becuase they will lead you to where you want to be. And you're gonna get there.

-Take care guys,
Justin
 
Justin,

This is why I love that guys of all ages post on this site. In the echoing chamber of my mind, we have all but forgotten the clear ring of a young optimistic voice.

When my selves gather, they are usually so busy bickering and screaming about how awful things are that they practically swallow up entirely the still small voice of hope.

I have reached a sort of accomodation over the years.

First, I have gradually opened myself to enjoying life thoroughly. I have a loving and supportive partner, family and friends. I do work that helps homeless and otherwise at risk kids and I pursue self expression through art with a driven passion. I teach. I work with others cooperatively towards common goals. I touch people's lives and change the world for the better every day of my life.

Second, I have not accepted but recognize the persistence of depression, emotional pain, horrifying memories in myself as well as the persistence of emotional neglectfulness and the abusiveness of those who have the responsibility to care for chldren. I recognize the persistence of violence, war, torture, mass starvation, disease and genocide in the world. I recongize the persistence of racism, hatred (both disguised and plain) and, for want of a better word, evil in the world.

Despite the attentive care of 2 therapists, a psychiatrist, a medical doctor and a whole intricate system of physical and mental health care, I am on an almost constant personal suicide watch.

Despite a virtual revolution in medication treatments, I still experience depression and hopelessness. Despite having a gifted mind, years of reading and study, an understanding of a number of complex belief systems (and religions or philosophies) I am often confused, lost on the path of recovery and Truth.

But, worst of all is the very private and inescapable loneliness which I have experienced from the very beginning. Over and over and over again it has seemed that that might be overcome but that hope each time turns out to be misguided.

Each self-made wall I tear down only finally reveals the original wall, the me-ness which I cannot escape.

Brett.
 
Brett
But, worst of all is the very private and inescapable loneliness which I have experienced from the very beginning. Over and over and over again it has seemed that that might be overcome but that hope each time turns out to be misguided.

Each self-made wall I tear down only finally reveals the original wall, the me-ness which I cannot escape.
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I have done that too but I found out something about that me-ness. It was not me. It was the product of my abuse. The me-ness was hidden inside of myself and terrified to come out. That final wall was nothing more that the real me not being able to see the lie that had been perpetrated on me by my perps. It was my fault and therefore I am damaged goods. Well I sake Fxxk that. It is they who were the damaged goods and I merely hid from them. The problem was I also hid from myself.

I still find myself on occasion slipping into the trap of the false me but now I recognize it for what it is. A means to keep me quiet and to have a whole lot of self loathing.
 
Mikey,

Thanks for the insight. It really helps and gives me a lot to think about for a while. This is the kind of support that I am desperate for and does a lot to help me feel less alone.

As I thought more about that wall metaphor, it did occur to me that a long buried authentic self is hidden behind it along with the darkest part of secrets.

You say "damaged goods." I have described myself as being a broken toy. I first said it without thinking about it but have thought a lot about why that in particular popped into my head. Now if I think of broken as meaning damaged, that makes a lot of sense. The toy part of it, it think, is about being manipulated.

Brett
 
Mikey,

That's true. It's just the unlearning part that I find so difficult.

That, and the inability to trust. I do not trust anyone, even tho I CRAVE it. To be able to be open, emotionally intimate, with another person, well, that comes with genuine affection and I want to be open to that again too.

Thank God for you guys,

Scot
 
That virus that is going around really knocked me on my kazoo. Anyway, I'm back and I'm going to add a few more things.

Scot, you posted
Would I want to respond to genuine affection? Do I want to just be held? Or will I always be afraid because of what the @$$hole did to me?
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Amen, brother. Even assuming I want to just be held, I react fearfully and defensively. Just being touched can evoke a flinch. Often when another guy just attempts to squeeze my shoulder in encouragement, I find myself jumping or evading the touch. Talk about fear! :o But there does seem to be room for hope. The reactions have become somewhat less severe in the last few months. Maybe that has something to do with a greater understanding of the roots of the fear, i.e., conscious memories of my abuse, and a better image of myself. Still, I would love, just once, to be able to express affection or even just regard for another person male or female, without having to deal with the intrusions of coitally suggestive overtones. And for these intrusions, I have my perp to thank :p .
 
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