Getting involved with "taken" women - Poss. trigg.

Getting involved with "taken" women - Poss. trigg.

Alonso

Registrant
Morals are very important for me. For years I had a strong principle that I wouldn't do anything with a woman who was married or had a partner. However, in 2015 I realized that that principle wasn’t working for me. Back then I had three attractive female friends, a Polish, an American and an Italian. The three showed a romantic interest in me, but all of them were either married or in a long term relationship, so I rejected all of them. At first sight this seemed the right thing to do. They didn’t feel bad about it because in principle I was not really rejecting them, I was rejecting their relationship status. However, one of them broke up with her boyfriend in order to be with me, and I still rejected her after that. She certainly felt bad about that rejection.

Eventually I acknowledged I was abusing my principle. Looks like I was befriending women who were in a relationship because that made everything easier for me. Since I was abused by a woman (my mother) I am so scared of women that I always reject them, no matter what. This typically creates negative feelings in both of us. With a woman in a relationship, however, I can just reject her straight away without feeling bad about it and without hurting her pride. They don’t feel bad because at first sight I’m not rejecting the woman, I’m rejecting the situation. Doing that wasn’t honest, I was deceving both parties. I was abusing my moral principle to avoid the challenge of actually getting involved with a woman and facing all the emotions that entails for me. I was abusing my moral principle in order to keep love out of my life.

Principles are meant to do good to people and to bring love to the world. If they fail to do so, they are not good principles, regardless of how great they might sound. My principle of keeping my distance with "taken" women sounded great in theory, but in practice it was keeping love out of my life (and theirs, although that is not my responsibility), and serving my fears. For that reason, after a very exhaustive examination, I decided to dump that principle. My current principle is that I am open (in theory, at least) to anybody regardless of their relationship status (the exception are the girlfriends or wives of my friends, those women are out of bounds). I consider it’s up to them, as adults, to decide what they want to do with their relationships. I will not decide what to do based on their relationship status because I have extensive experience that that approach backfires badly with me.

Looks like I took the right decision because, after I dumped my original principle, I reduced my involvement with “taken” women noticeably. Over the last few weeks, however, I have met two attractive married women who seem to be interested in me. I have no reason to say no to any of them, so I’m getting quite nervous about it.
 
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HI Alonso,

I've had similar challenges with women. I too was hurt by my mother both sexually and emotionally starting in utero. Eventually I realized that I was pursuing connections where my infant needs (safety and non-sexual touch) weren't going to get met. I was getting lost in warm fuzzy feelings, exposing myself to high threat situations and failing to address my own needs. It was just a repeat of what I encountered very early in my life... a very painful and deep rooted mother wound. I also clung to the memory of my ex very strongly. This was another way to avoid putting energy into the people around me.

These days I work to get my needs met any way I can (Laurel Parnell's "Tapping In" has been helpful as has Richard Miller's iRest, professionals help particularly one that works with animal supported therapy, expressing my needs openly has also helped). So far, I've found women aren't interested in supporting me (unless they are paid) nor are men (again, unless they are paid).

Facing the pain, embracing my anger and pursuing forgiveness of all people seems to be the path I'm on right now. Best wishes as you pursue healing yourself of your mother-son trauma. I know it's not easy.

Cheers,

Garth
 
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Thanks, Garth, that was a very sensitive and sensible answer.

I guess I was also badly hurt in utero since my mother has been a very heavy smoker for the last fifty years and I don't think she ever had a break in that time.

SubtleStuff said:
Eventually I realized that I was pursuing connections where my infant needs (safety and non-sexual touch) weren't going to get met. I was getting lost in warm fuzzy feelings, exposing myself to high threat situations and failing to address my own needs.
Looks like I am doing the same. But I don't even know what my needs are. The closest I've been to fulfilling them was an 18 years relationship with a woman who, unsurprisingly enough, turned out to be just like my mother. That definitely fulfilled my needs for a long time, but in a very unhealthy way.

SubtleStuff said:
expressing my needs openly has also helped
I'm very interested in this. Actually, it's been one of the main questions in my life for the last couple of years: How much should I say about my situation (and my needs)? Unfortunately I have a strong tendency to avoid talking about myself, and when people ask I tend to bottle up. I often just talk about my last job and my expectations for my next job, and carefully avoid mentioning that the last time I had a job was ten years ago. Looks like expressing my needs would involve mentioning my CSA, and I'm scared to do that with most people. Not because I don't want to say it, at this stage I'm fine with telling anyone, but because I'm quite certain that most people will freak out when they hear it unless they've known me for years.

SubtleStuff said:
Laurel Parnell's "Tapping In" has been helpful as has Richard Miller's iRest
I am currently reading Silently seduced, on covert sexual abuse, but so far I'm a bit disappointed. Looks like the only cases the book mentions are those where the survivors are wealthy and highly successful professionals. I'm starting to wonder if it offers help for the rest of us. So I'd like to hear more about those books you mention, they might suit me better.
 
Hi Alonso,

Alonso said:
But I don't even know what my needs are. The closest I've been to fulfilling them was an 18 years relationship with a woman who, unsurprisingly enough, turned out to be just like my mother. That definitely fulfilled my needs for a long time, but in a very unhealthy way.
This took me a while to figure out. It's been easy for me to project my needs onto a woman and end up dealing with much more than what is healing for me. At one point I noticed the strong effect of non-sexual touch on my health and started to pursue that in environments where it was the central focus of the gathering. Eventually I figured out that I was being triggered by the women and focused on men only. This has had obvious challenges but a paid professional and one close friend have helped. Befriending my body and welcoming the pain (as suggested in Richard Miller's iRest practices see: www.iRest.org) has been helpful too.

Alonso said:
SubtleStuff said:
expressing my needs openly has also helped
I'm very interested in this. Actually, it's been one of the main questions in my life for the last couple of years: How much should I say about my situation (and my needs)?
I had to approach this carefully. For a long time I was afraid that if I spoke too openly about it that it would get back to family and I would be cut off from the financial support that they offer me. In the end that didn't happen, but for many years I was working under the radar choosing the people in which I would confide very carefully. The MaleSurvivor forums and Healing Circle have been very helpful this way as well as the various therapists I've explored with varying degrees of success (again women didn't work well for me and local support was weak. At one point I had to resort to videoconferencing).


Alonso said:
SubtleStuff said:
Laurel Parnell's "Tapping In" has been helpful as has Richard Miller's iRest
I'd like to hear more about those books you mention, they might suit me better.
Tapping In by Laurel Parnell describes a way to access positive resources in your imagination while engaging in bilateral tapping of the body to anchor them in the body. It's inspired by EMDR. There is a CD through Sounds True (see:https://www.soundstrue.com/store/tapping-in-4131.html) and a book (see:http://drlaurelparnell.com/books-by-dr-laurel-parnell/tapping-in/) that I found in our public library. I use it to get the feeling of a healthy mothering anchored in my felt experience. I basically replaced the mother of my memory with a new (and much better) one.

iRest was developed by Richard Miller by adapting Yoga Nidra to Trauma Healing. He has a great book (see:https://www.irest.org/publications/The-iRest-Program-for-Healing-PTSD-by-Richard-Miller) and a soundtrack that goes with it (see:https://www.irest.org/products/MP3/iRestforHealing). You can create your own soundtracks from the book. There are also some free sound tracks at https://www.irest.org/try-irest-now. Sounds True has a version of his approach that isn't quite as strongly focused on healing trauma but is good anyways (see: https://www.soundstrue.com/store/irest-meditation.html).

The least expensive way to explore it, is to try the free tracks on his website. YouTube has some iRest practices as well. The book on healing PTSD through iRest is relatively inexpensive (It might be available through your public library, if not request that it be purchased for the public) and gives the most comprehensive explanation of his approach. It's a deeply meditative practice and studied extensively in the military.

I hope this helps. Best wishes as you pursue your healing. Please keep me posted. I know how difficult healing these deep mother wounds can be and how socially taboo they are. I've struggled a great deal with very weak sources of support. The effect on my body has been disastrous. I'm happy to help you as much as I can. Hopefully it won't be so difficult for you.

Sincerely,

Garth
 
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Thank you again for your very sensitive answer. It's been a while. It's difficult for me to gather the emotional strength to write here, as you know.

Facing the pain, embracing my anger and pursuing forgiveness of all people seems to be the path I'm on right now.
Is it OK if I ask what kind of forgiveness you are pursuing?

At one point I noticed the strong effect of non-sexual touch on my health and started to pursue that in environments where it was the central focus of the gathering.
May I ask what kind of environments are those? I think the closest I've been to that are salsa lessons, which I took a few years ago, but as you can imagine salsa lessons do have a strong implicit sexual feeling.

I hope I find the energy to look into the resources you've mentioned in the future. I'm currently overwhelmed by the amount of healing work I've set up for myself, so I'll take it little by little.
 
Hi Alonso,
Is it OK if I ask what kind of forgiveness you are pursuing?
I've been most inspired by Desmond Tutu's approach (see:Quotes) His book: The Book of Forgiving is excellent!

May I ask what kind of (non-sexual touch) environments are those?
That's been a challenge for me. Since I get so easily triggered by women it's been difficult. I've tried all sorts of gatherings (Reiki, Healing Pathways, Quantum Touch, Men's groups (very touch phobic around here!), massage therapists, a friend, animal therapy (with dogs)). Most groups were triggering for me. When women were present, they would often turn me into the object of their "Relationship" desires and trigger an intense fear in me. Men are typically very frustrating in their lack of interest in touch with other men at all. The best approach I've found is Cuddle Party yet it's been challenging to access locally. These days I've settled on an excellent trauma therapist trained in Somatic Experiencing and SomatoEmotional Release, the occasional massage session and regular animal therapy sessions. My trauma therapist has a very strong foundation in body awareness as well as using self touch and body postures as part of the practices he recommends. It's the best I can do right now. Relying on local people for support at this level has been very frustrating for me. One of my most inspiring discoveries is Men’s Therapeutic Cuddle Group in Plymouth Meeting PA, USA. Unfortunately, it's too far for me to attend but I admire their courage a great deal.

I'm currently overwhelmed by the amount of healing work I've set up for myself, so I'll take it little by little.
Yes, I get this. I recently went through a major crisis myself and have had to slow down and focus on nurturing myself. It's deep work and taxing on my body. I'm glad that you are able to pace yourself and respect your limits.

Best wishes as you continue to heal. If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know.

Cheers,

Garth
 
The MaleSurvivor forums and Healing Circle have been very helpful this way

Healing Circle has returned!!! (started yesterday)
 
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