Grooming Generational Differences Between Survivors - Internet Youth and CSAM Perspectives

[bluesteel]

One thing that I have noticed from this super supportive group is that experiences can differ significantly from person to person and region to region, that is not a new concept.

But I think that with this type of abuse, the year that it happened can really change things (for some people and not in every aspect). Of course I mean like with the internet and all that vs a time before. In my case specifically in the 00s/10s, homosexuality was not only considered acceptable for public society and had been for years, and rapidly becoming less taboo. I grew up in a very liberal part of the US, so it was never a problem. From the time I started school, there were kids with two dads or two moms in my class. Awesome!

Anyway, the culture of which I grew up in encouraged you to explore. While questioning my sexuality (it was really shoved in my face in my opinion but that's a separate issue), I got online (natural for someone with questions at that time). I can't remember how it happened, but I got sucked up into an abusive site and app that exploited young boys. They groomed us and twisted things to make us think we were exploring, they used us for CSAM.

I love this supportive community and the level of empathy and try from everyone on here, but if you did not grow up with an active internet, you may not understand fully. (I genuinely do not know of or remember a world without the internet). And there definitely will be different perspectives, which is a good thing! But I feel like there is an itch I need help scratching in terms of my abuse and the nature of it.

So essentially, once I was brought into this system by these groomers of CSAM (I don't remember how it happened), I was powerless to leave. I couldn't destroy every phone and laptop on earth so they could always get me. Make me do what they wanted. They had such a good set up for themselves. I have no idea who they are. I chose yesterday on a name to call them. I have decided to call them "guests" because that's what it felt like. A lot of them wanted to stick around in my life. I think what made it easier for the guests what that they didn't have to risk getting caught meeting someone in public, the internet and that site (I won't name the site at the moment, but it wasn't some fringe thing, but it was buried deep).

There are other nuances, but I just find it hard to relate to that internet aspect to everyone on here. I think that the internet made it much easier for them to find me and if the internet didn't exist, this would have never happened and certainly not to the degree it did. The CASM I was forced to make was very specific. I've talked about it in chat briefly, but I feel weird writing it here. Maybe I did post it in another forum or hint at it. But I just want you to know that the CASM was very specific, it was a specific type and at times was interactive. (Think onlyfans but for underage boys). I had "fans" I also had lots of one offs.

I felt so confused and scared. Some of the guests were very mean and aggressive and it wasn't just a turn off your computer situation. Their grooming was so advanced. I am getting upset writing this so I will stop talking about it and go back to the generational differences. My stomach is turning and I want to cry.

I think that these issues are so deep that everyone deals with them at different times in life. I have hit my wall and my moment and I am glad I hit it now. I know a lot of people are around 40 or 60 on this site, I think that this takes that many years for people to feel comfortable talking about and I think in some time, more of the people I was abused with will wake up (if they have not already) and seek help. I am worried about how high that number may be. I am sure there were so many similar sites and groups.

I also want to acknowledge 2 other things when it comes to generational similarities. I believe that times change, people don't. We are all one people, there are universal experiences and we also all have empathy. There are also things that may be similar to your experiences or fallout and mine although not a 1:1 connection. I don't want to be in a vacuum with just people my own age either.

Second, we are all in the same metageneration. We live on the planet at the same time. We have an understanding of the differences, similarities, culture, contexts, technology, and much more. There is more in common between me and a 100 year old than there is with someone who lived 500 years ago. There is also something to be said about similarities between me and someone older, that I could not have with someone younger. For example, a younger person doesn't remember the world from before they were born (obviously) so there is a connection there. Most important I love your experience and perspective. It really helps me and forces me to get out of my comfort zone to become a smart, better, and more empathetic man.

I love the generational differences, but I do hope that more guys close to my age can stay on this site long enough to support each other in a different way.

Thank you, rant over.

 

[nerograves]

One thing that I have noticed from this super supportive group is that experiences can differ significantly from person to person and region to region, that is not a new concept.

But I think that with this type of abuse, the year that it happened can really change things (for some people and not in every aspect). Of course I mean like with the internet and all that vs a time before. In my case specifically in the 00s/10s, homosexuality was not only considered acceptable for public society and had been for years, and rapidly becoming less taboo. I grew up in a very liberal part of the US, so it was never a problem. From the time I started school, there were kids with two dads or two moms in my class. Awesome!

Anyway, the culture of which I grew up in encouraged you to explore. While questioning my sexuality (it was really shoved in my face in my opinion but that's a separate issue), I got online (natural for someone with questions at that time). I can't remember how it happened, but I got sucked up into an abusive site and app that exploited young boys. They groomed us and twisted things to make us think we were exploring, they used us for CSAM.

I love this supportive community and the level of empathy and try from everyone on here, but if you did not grow up with an active internet, you may not understand fully. (I genuinely do not know of or remember a world without the internet). And there definitely will be different perspectives, which is a good thing! But I feel like there is an itch I need help scratching in terms of my abuse and the nature of it.

So essentially, once I was brought into this system by these groomers of CSAM (I don't remember how it happened), I was powerless to leave. I couldn't destroy every phone and laptop on earth so they could always get me. Make me do what they wanted. They had such a good set up for themselves. I have no idea who they are. I chose yesterday on a name to call them. I have decided to call them "guests" because that's what it felt like. A lot of them wanted to stick around in my life. I think what made it easier for the guests what that they didn't have to risk getting caught meeting someone in public, the internet and that site (I won't name the site at the moment, but it wasn't some fringe thing, but it was buried deep).

There are other nuances, but I just find it hard to relate to that internet aspect to everyone on here. I think that the internet made it much easier for them to find me and if the internet didn't exist, this would have never happened and certainly not to the degree it did. The CASM I was forced to make was very specific. I've talked about it in chat briefly, but I feel weird writing it here. Maybe I did post it in another forum or hint at it. But I just want you to know that the CASM was very specific, it was a specific type and at times was interactive. (Think onlyfans but for underage boys). I had "fans" I also had lots of one offs.

I felt so confused and scared. Some of the guests were very mean and aggressive and it wasn't just a turn off your computer situation. Their grooming was so advanced. I am getting upset writing this so I will stop talking about it and go back to the generational differences. My stomach is turning and I want to cry.

I think that these issues are so deep that everyone deals with them at different times in life. I have hit my wall and my moment and I am glad I hit it now. I know a lot of people are around 40 or 60 on this site, I think that this takes that many years for people to feel comfortable talking about and I think in some time, more of the people I was abused with will wake up (if they have not already) and seek help. I am worried about how high that number may be. I am sure there were so many similar sites and groups.

I also want to acknowledge 2 other things when it comes to generational similarities. I believe that times change, people don't. We are all one people, there are universal experiences and we also all have empathy. There are also things that may be similar to your experiences or fallout and mine although not a 1:1 connection. I don't want to be in a vacuum with just people my own age either.

Second, we are all in the same metageneration. We live on the planet at the same time. We have an understanding of the differences, similarities, culture, contexts, technology, and much more. There is more in common between me and a 100 year old than there is with someone who lived 500 years ago. There is also something to be said about similarities between me and someone older, that I could not have with someone younger. For example, a younger person doesn't remember the world from before they were born (obviously) so there is a connection there. Most important I love your experience and perspective. It really helps me and forces me to get out of my comfort zone to become a smart, better, and more empathetic man.

I love the generational differences, but I do hope that more guys close to my age can stay on this site long enough to support each other in a different way.

Thank you, rant over.

This was a well written perspective on generations and similarities. There is a mark distinction, of course, from pre-internet to born during the internet, but like you said the experiences from each cohort has a lot of overlap and some distinctions to learn a lot from that perspective. Reading what other share on this site made me aware of things I didn't know had been going on. That's why I appreciate generational differences because you learn so much and can surprisingly relate to some it. I was born around the 'digital native' thing becoming the norm, so early to mid 90s.

Sorry you had to experience CSAM, it really sucks getting forced into something like that. I didn't even know mine was CSAM (let alone the CSA that came after) until someone told me what it was and that what he had me (and likely other boys) do was not typical yearbook photos. Anyway, thanks for sharing this and hope your doing okay.. Nice to know different gens can find relatability in supporting each other.

 

[Silly]

Interesting thread - it isn't something I've given much thought to, but I get what you're saying. I think what I notice more than anything isn't generational at all, and that's the affect it has... the residue it leaves behind. No matter the age of the survivor I read the same struggles with guilt and shame, acting out and the chronic questioning of who we really are? What did these traumatic experiences turn us into? The problem doesn't often seem to be about what was done, it seems more often to be about what was left when it was over. I was abused in one way or another for most of my childhood... into my mid teens. It boggles my mind to know that pictures/films produced in 1979 (I was 12) are still out there... on the internet. CSAM (once digitalised) seems to have no expiration date.

Anyway... I'm rambling at this point - not wanting to hijack this thread I'll stop here.

 

[svf]

Bluesteel, thank you for writing that
i am very aware how different my abuse would have been if it was happening now.
it was pre-internet and while i had to deal with photographs being taken that is nothing compared to how devices are used now.

i don’t think the end results differ much. not when the abused walk away and try to deal with the aftermath. we all blame ourselves. our sexuality has been messed with. our bodies left uncertain and confused. our minds fucked up and full of dark corners.

we might use different words to our grandchildren but it amounts to the same thing.

there is one thing you haven’t done that we have, we walked the road before you did, we have maps and torches and we know the good places to rest.

any one of us are happy to walk part of the way with you.
bit of company. we can talk. or not.
you just have to ask

 

[Tableau in Stasis]

One thing that I have noticed from this super supportive group is that experiences can differ significantly from person to person and region to region, that is not a new concept.

But I think that with this type of abuse, the year that it happened can really change things (for some people and not in every aspect). Of course I mean like with the internet and all that vs a time before. In my case specifically in the 00s/10s, homosexuality was not only considered acceptable for public society and had been for years, and rapidly becoming less taboo. I grew up in a very liberal part of the US, so it was never a problem. From the time I started school, there were kids with two dads or two moms in my class. Awesome!

Anyway, the culture of which I grew up in encouraged you to explore. While questioning my sexuality (it was really shoved in my face in my opinion but that's a separate issue), I got online (natural for someone with questions at that time). I can't remember how it happened, but I got sucked up into an abusive site and app that exploited young boys. They groomed us and twisted things to make us think we were exploring, they used us for CSAM.

I love this supportive community and the level of empathy and try from everyone on here, but if you did not grow up with an active internet, you may not understand fully. (I genuinely do not know of or remember a world without the internet). And there definitely will be different perspectives, which is a good thing! But I feel like there is an itch I need help scratching in terms of my abuse and the nature of it.

So essentially, once I was brought into this system by these groomers of CSAM (I don't remember how it happened), I was powerless to leave. I couldn't destroy every phone and laptop on earth so they could always get me. Make me do what they wanted. They had such a good set up for themselves. I have no idea who they are. I chose yesterday on a name to call them. I have decided to call them "guests" because that's what it felt like. A lot of them wanted to stick around in my life. I think what made it easier for the guests what that they didn't have to risk getting caught meeting someone in public, the internet and that site (I won't name the site at the moment, but it wasn't some fringe thing, but it was buried deep).

There are other nuances, but I just find it hard to relate to that internet aspect to everyone on here. I think that the internet made it much easier for them to find me and if the internet didn't exist, this would have never happened and certainly not to the degree it did. The CASM I was forced to make was very specific. I've talked about it in chat briefly, but I feel weird writing it here. Maybe I did post it in another forum or hint at it. But I just want you to know that the CASM was very specific, it was a specific type and at times was interactive. (Think onlyfans but for underage boys). I had "fans" I also had lots of one offs.

I felt so confused and scared. Some of the guests were very mean and aggressive and it wasn't just a turn off your computer situation. Their grooming was so advanced. I am getting upset writing this so I will stop talking about it and go back to the generational differences. My stomach is turning and I want to cry.

I think that these issues are so deep that everyone deals with them at different times in life. I have hit my wall and my moment and I am glad I hit it now. I know a lot of people are around 40 or 60 on this site, I think that this takes that many years for people to feel comfortable talking about and I think in some time, more of the people I was abused with will wake up (if they have not already) and seek help. I am worried about how high that number may be. I am sure there were so many similar sites and groups.

I also want to acknowledge 2 other things when it comes to generational similarities. I believe that times change, people don't. We are all one people, there are universal experiences and we also all have empathy. There are also things that may be similar to your experiences or fallout and mine although not a 1:1 connection. I don't want to be in a vacuum with just people my own age either.

Second, we are all in the same metageneration. We live on the planet at the same time. We have an understanding of the differences, similarities, culture, contexts, technology, and much more. There is more in common between me and a 100 year old than there is with someone who lived 500 years ago. There is also something to be said about similarities between me and someone older, that I could not have with someone younger. For example, a younger person doesn't remember the world from before they were born (obviously) so there is a connection there. Most important I love your experience and perspective. It really helps me and forces me to get out of my comfort zone to become a smart, better, and more empathetic man.

I love the generational differences, but I do hope that more guys close to my age can stay on this site long enough to support each other in a different way.

Thank you, rant over.

Yeah the influence of the Internet, especially on younger survivors like us, cannot be understated. I know of a few different inconspicuous places shit goes on despite any attempts to stop them, and it's awful. Internet grooming and abuse isn't a huge part of my own story, but it's still wormed it's way in even so, as it has for so so many others. CSAM is a particularly nasty part of these worlds, and I think the demand (and often production of it even for in person abuse), for it drives a lot more places than people think. It has hugely impacted my healing process, and affected every part of my survivorship and will continue to for the rest of my life. Coming to a tense sort of almost peace with it, has been the work of years and lots and lots of therapy.

 

[LittleSteve]

I have a little different perspective than probably most of you computers have been my primary domain for almost my entire life all the way back to when Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard. When the Internet went commercial back in 1996 not only was I there I started an ISP in in case you don’t know what that means Internet service provider in other words, i.e. hosted websites and the way you connect to the Internet.

A few years later, my company was investigated by the FBI for CSAM because one of my customers hosted a website that had that material on it. Had nothing to do with us, but this was the early days of the Internet. I have testified in court on behalf of the FBI in several cases about CSAM. So from the perspective of being with the older generation, I’m a lot more up close and personal. The other thing is my ISP was in the gay community. It was gay owned and operated and proudly so.

The other part that’s different about me is I didn’t know that I was a Survivor at that time, but it was so prevalent. The amount of it was so pervasive, I would usually get contacted at least once a week by a prosecutor for information on one of my customers, and it wasn’t about just anything it was about CSAM. But just so you understand the proportion I had tens of thousands of customers I was actually a fairly good size company at the time, but it was everywhere.

So it’s been there from the very beginning in the Internet. So I’ve watched this through the whole process and the from the very beginning And unfortunately it’s made access to boys so much easier and so insidious. And as a couple of people pointed out just because you weren’t physically touched doesn’t make it any less horrible or abusive. The frightening part is the way this works. Is it used to be somebody outside the house that people worried about, now it’s inside the house, but in some ways that mirrors, the abuse That boys get inside the home too.

What I think is the same though, as when I read the stories of some younger guys, and I read the stories of the older guys, the effects of it are pretty much the same. I don’t need to go into all of that, because we all know what they are, when I see is the wreckage that’s left behind. Is what ties us together, regardless of age, regardless of what happened, regardless of who did it, the damage that it leaves is what we have to deal with.

When I was trafficked back in 1964, they filmed me, it wouldn’t surprise me if that film is around somewhere in digital form. Just a thought of that gives me the creeps really, so I can’t imagine guys where we know it still exists, it’s a burden I can’t imagine.

I guess what I’m trying to say is there are so many differences between all of us age, location, how it happened, how long it last all of that stuff is different for probably almost every single one of us, but what brings us together and makes his brothers is what it did to all of us, regardless of how it happened and that we can support each other on our path to healing regardless if you’re 20 years old or 70 years old

 

[axlr]

I just read your post.

I'm sorry about what happened. I grew up in a pretty liberal part of the US too, as a zoomer I started kindergarten in 2011 and Obama was already well into his first term so people were generally relaxed, whether it was Wisconsin or Southern California. I didn't know anyone with gay parents but I figured out I myself was some sort of LGBT pretty early on, I've seen YouTube comments from myself already identifying as bi (later pansexual) in the third grade, though once I started masturbating to porn and stuff when I was 11 I ended up settling with 'gay' as I confronted that I was only really interested in males. Anyway that part of the post made me a little nostalgic, I guess cause it reminded me of that sort of elementary school liberalism that is so very juvenile but melancholic. Bittersweet

Something I think a lot about is how much CSAM tends to follow somebody. Having "fans", being a commodity, the ever looming anvil from above haunting everything you do so God help you if you break anonymity... I think about how in the early 2000s specifically as the internet was starting to take off, that was a really bad time to get abused in this way in particular because that's just when everyone was starting to get online and if your videos and photos happened to leak around this time then shit, it's never a good thing to be 'popular' like that but at that time specifically you just become a legacy or something. When I was younger I was reading this web page and stumbled across an HTML archive of a deep web site that was a sort of 'history of CP' with a section on that history and then another section listing (without media or anything mind you, just descriptions) different 'stars'. Like some kind of index. All of them were kind of dated from that time period, and it just made me think. I think about it a lot but I'm scared people will just think it's only on my mind 'cause I wanna masturbate to it and I'm not always eager to tell anyone the traumatic history that makes it on my mind so it just languishes at the back of my mind.

I don't think any materials of me were ever that widespread, if any of them were put online at all. I get the vibe that if they were then I'd know by now because someone would have probably gotten arrested with them and then a cop would have identified me by now, but maybe it just wasn't meant to be. But I know what it's like to be on camera, and if you ever had any feelings of pride in it, just know that doesn't mean you deserved it or were better off for it having happened.

Some of the guests were very mean and aggressive and it wasn't just a turn off your computer situation.

I'm sorry you had to go through that kind of experience, it wasn't your fault. My perpetrator maintained control over me using aggression and intimidation.

I chose yesterday on a name to call them. I have decided to call them "guests" because that's what it felt like.

I call the men I had to have sex with 'clients'. I called my neighbor Neighborman when I started on here, but it felt silly after a time so I just stuck with neighbor. People might rag on the euphemisms but it helps to have something to hide behind.

If you ever need someone to talk to about growing up in the digital age and abuse and all that, my inbox is always open.

(edit: There is also a space on this forum for CSAM survivors in particular to talk: https://forum.malesurvivor.org/forums/sexual-abuse-exploitation-in-media.124/)

 

[Tableau in Stasis]

I call the men I had to have sex with 'clients'.

Yeah I saw a lot of y'all on here say that and similar things even before I remembered my own, so I kind of picked it up because it does fit in my mind. Underscores the commodity aspect, and how they were sort of "customers" which I feel fits with my perception of the trafficking experiences I have. Kinda makes it clear the nature of what this whole thing was. There were also times I was abused and it was not related to trafficking, so I don't call those people clients, I just call them perps or abusers.

 

[axlr]

Yeah I saw a lot of y'all on here say that and similar things even before I remembered my own, so I kind of picked it up because it does fit in my mind. Underscores the commodity aspect, and how they were sort of "customers" which I feel fits with my perception of the trafficking experiences I have. Kinda makes it clear the nature of what this whole thing was. There were also times I was abused and it was not related to trafficking, so I don't call those people clients, I just call them perps or abusers.

Yes, the commodity aspect! At least.... the transactional nature of it. As a kid I didn't really have a mind for the economics of it so to speak, but I did know on a base level the service element, the utility. I was helping them. I was doing a nice thing by being someone for them to get their rocks off with, that's what I told myself to not feel so bad over it, to not feel the shame.... ugh. "You're a whore for this", no I'm helping!

 

[raffa_will_fight]

One thing that I have noticed from this super supportive group is that experiences can differ significantly from person to person and region to region, that is not a new concept.

But I think that with this type of abuse, the year that it happened can really change things (for some people and not in every aspect). Of course I mean like with the internet and all that vs a time before. In my case specifically in the 00s/10s, homosexuality was not only considered acceptable for public society and had been for years, and rapidly becoming less taboo. I grew up in a very liberal part of the US, so it was never a problem. From the time I started school, there were kids with two dads or two moms in my class. Awesome!

Anyway, the culture of which I grew up in encouraged you to explore. While questioning my sexuality (it was really shoved in my face in my opinion but that's a separate issue), I got online (natural for someone with questions at that time). I can't remember how it happened, but I got sucked up into an abusive site and app that exploited young boys. They groomed us and twisted things to make us think we were exploring, they used us for CSAM.

I love this supportive community and the level of empathy and try from everyone on here, but if you did not grow up with an active internet, you may not understand fully. (I genuinely do not know of or remember a world without the internet). And there definitely will be different perspectives, which is a good thing! But I feel like there is an itch I need help scratching in terms of my abuse and the nature of it.

So essentially, once I was brought into this system by these groomers of CSAM (I don't remember how it happened), I was powerless to leave. I couldn't destroy every phone and laptop on earth so they could always get me. Make me do what they wanted. They had such a good set up for themselves. I have no idea who they are. I chose yesterday on a name to call them. I have decided to call them "guests" because that's what it felt like. A lot of them wanted to stick around in my life. I think what made it easier for the guests what that they didn't have to risk getting caught meeting someone in public, the internet and that site (I won't name the site at the moment, but it wasn't some fringe thing, but it was buried deep).

There are other nuances, but I just find it hard to relate to that internet aspect to everyone on here. I think that the internet made it much easier for them to find me and if the internet didn't exist, this would have never happened and certainly not to the degree it did. The CASM I was forced to make was very specific. I've talked about it in chat briefly, but I feel weird writing it here. Maybe I did post it in another forum or hint at it. But I just want you to know that the CASM was very specific, it was a specific type and at times was interactive. (Think onlyfans but for underage boys). I had "fans" I also had lots of one offs.

I felt so confused and scared. Some of the guests were very mean and aggressive and it wasn't just a turn off your computer situation. Their grooming was so advanced. I am getting upset writing this so I will stop talking about it and go back to the generational differences. My stomach is turning and I want to cry.

I think that these issues are so deep that everyone deals with them at different times in life. I have hit my wall and my moment and I am glad I hit it now. I know a lot of people are around 40 or 60 on this site, I think that this takes that many years for people to feel comfortable talking about and I think in some time, more of the people I was abused with will wake up (if they have not already) and seek help. I am worried about how high that number may be. I am sure there were so many similar sites and groups.

I also want to acknowledge 2 other things when it comes to generational similarities. I believe that times change, people don't. We are all one people, there are universal experiences and we also all have empathy. There are also things that may be similar to your experiences or fallout and mine although not a 1:1 connection. I don't want to be in a vacuum with just people my own age either.

Second, we are all in the same metageneration. We live on the planet at the same time. We have an understanding of the differences, similarities, culture, contexts, technology, and much more. There is more in common between me and a 100 year old than there is with someone who lived 500 years ago. There is also something to be said about similarities between me and someone older, that I could not have with someone younger. For example, a younger person doesn't remember the world from before they were born (obviously) so there is a connection there. Most important I love your experience and perspective. It really helps me and forces me to get out of my comfort zone to become a smart, better, and more empathetic man.

I love the generational differences, but I do hope that more guys close to my age can stay on this site long enough to support each other in a different way.

Thank you, rant over.

First I am sorry for what you experienced, I can absolutely understand what you explained and relate to how you are feeling.

I was just messaging with a member about my cope mechanism: analysing in order to make sense of this world, society and human behaviour. I think that open, respectful discussions, considering the differences of one experience, would help to see ones experience not right or wrong, and not less traumatising then others past.
Love the question. Your generation, I think mine as well (I am 45), lived technological advances older generations now live, but was not around when their abuse happened. Technology obviously is great, but also gave other possibilities to preps. Different possibilities.
When I read stories from times I know because my dad often talks about them, I feel that the not existence of technology gave other, simpler ways to abuse, and way less options to victims to break out. Counting in harsher more violent teaching and punishing methods I even can’t imagine. My dad was hit, kicked, beaten brutally at 12, in general as a child. Broken ribs. Having to ask neighbours for food.
I can relate to the complexity to explain why “simply closing the screen” is not an option. The psychological grooming is horrible. I well in love with people I have no idea who they were. And when I was 18, 1998, I had no computer.But a cell phone. The grooming felt the same.

I think us 40-50 years old had kind of the possibility to see a lot of change. And I am talking not about the changes in our lifes, but the changes experienced when children. Those years play a crucial part in our personality and our views on the world and people behaviour or actions. I think these differ a lot through the generations.