Friends

[Bobby]

So many of us have no close personal male friends (Count me in on that one.), yet, you guys are some of the nicest, kindest, most sincere people I have ever known...well kind of known...well, known really well, but wouldn't recognize you if I bumped into you on the street. So what's stopping us? Are we the only ones in the world that I would really like to be friends with, or is it that it's so much easier to be open when nobody really knows who we are? And would you be afraid of me if I came to your home and told you all of the stuff I have told you here and then started to cry and thought that maybe you could hold me for just a little bit until I felt better?
Would you be afraid that you might not be able to get rid of me...that I might hang on and expect you to take care of me...that I might be just a tad "off" and a little "scary"?

If I came up to me and started talking to me honestly, how would I react to me? I would hope that I would be kind and become my friend. But would I? Would I be too afraid that I might take up too much of my time? What if I might have to take me in in a tough moment when I couldn't cope any more? Would I do that? Am I just a lot of talk when I don't have to identify myself?

Can men who haven't been hurt like we have relate like we do? Do you have to have been injured beyond belief to be able to recognize and want to help heal pain in another man? Would I be sensitive to other's pain if I had none of my own?

What makes us different? We are, you know. Or, at least I think we are. I've never met anyone like us before. I'm not used to such overwhelming kindness and concern from other men. Are they just hiding it? Have our "tough at all cost" masks just been ripped away, while theirs are still in place? Underneath are most men just like us?

I would love to have a friend, but I would never, ever show him all of my pain...tell him all of my secrets. I would be much too afraid to do that. What if my friend Jim knew I might be gay? We've been "friends" for 30 years...spent the night together in motels. What would he think? Would he say, "So, you think you might be gay? Ever think about me that way?" In truth, I never have, never would. But would he understand that gay is not that simple...that you are not running around being turned on by every male that happens along the road? Would he understand that he could run around naked in front of me and I would have no reaction except to pull the blinds so that he wouldn't embarrass himself?

Here I am connecting with so many amazing men who are kind and caring and empathetic and absolutely what I have thought all my life that men at their best should be, and I'm still afraid to put myself on the line outside, here, where I live. Is it because I think I'm gay and I don't trust myself or my own motives?

Is all of this a result of my SA, or would I have been this screwed up no matter what?

And while I'm on the subject...I wasn't, but I am now...which world is my real world? Bobby is much more real than his counterpart in what others would call the real world. I tell you everything. I hold nothing back. You know me for who I am and what I am. you know the bad stuff and the good stuff and the fears and the triumphs when they come. Isn't that reality? When I come here, am I not escaping the non-real world to come into reality instead, as my wife says, escaping reality by coming here? Which place is real? Which one of me is the real me?
How can I integrate Bobby into that other me? I like Bobby so much better. He is so much more honest and caring and open and trusting...everything I'm not. God knows I'm trying. Jake gave me the courage to try. There is more of Bobby in me than there has ever been. In fact, even though some of the guys here know my real name, I still want to go by Bobby because I feel that Bobby is really who I am...was meant to be...could be if I only had the courage.

And then I always have to go back to the "real" world. I don't leave you all behind, because now you go with me wherever I go, and I wonder how you're doing and if you're still depressed and if that therapist visit went okay and if talking to your sister helped any. But it's hard to really "be" out there because I am so alive in here.

Should I stop coming? Would that help?

I'll get it all figured out some day...maybe/maybe not...haven't done too well, so far. Thanks for listening, those of you who did. Wish you lived next door, but then, we probably wouldn't be talking like this if you did,would we?

Bobby

 

[andrew51]

Bobby, you are all those things. The real world and MS world are one and the same in my opinion.
Being somewhat anonymous here does not make it any less real. You will find men like us next door to you, in telemarketing, cutting your meat, fixing your car, everywhere. The real issue for all of us is risking the pain of rejection once we take the leap of faith and invest ourselves emotionally with people. Good luck. Peace, Andrew
P.S. I have met quite a few men who are just as sensitive and caring as the people here at MS.

 

[Lloydy]

Bobby
I really like your post, it raises so many questions that we all want the answers to.

I've found that as I recover, I change - a lot. And so has my circle of friends.

Many of the people who were my friends years ago I now find .......well, not my kind of friend any more. We haven't fallen out, we still talk, but we no longer have the same things in common that we once had. I've changed and they haven't, nothing wrong with that, it happens.

I have found new friends though, some are survivors I meet in group therapy, some are the other people and therapists that make up Axis, the Survivors organization I now volunteer for. And there are others outside the survivors world as well.

I guess it's the recovery of my self-esteem and confidence that has led to me making good new friends, and that's something I believe is a natural part of every survivors recovery.

Dave

 

Bobby:

I just don't think I'm gay. I am gay. And before I got in touch with the SA, before I came to this site, I always looked at men in a certain way. I would kind of glance at them and think, "Are they one of us?" Meaning, "Are they gay?"

Now when I see a man walking down the street, or pushing a shopping cart with his girlfriend in the supermarket, I think, "Is he one of us?" Only this time, it means, "Is he one of us? Is he a survivor?"

Why the change? Because now I know that survivors come in all shapes and sizes, all colors, all creeds, and all possible variations of sexuality.

Most of all, I now know that survivors are the greatest guys on the planet! So yes, I would like to think that I would welcome you freely into my home and into my life, if I met you in the real world. And I would like to think you would do the same.

So this site, I think, is changing us all. Little by little we are learning.

Please don't take this the wrong way...but I always thought men were nice to look at. Now I know they are really cool in other ways as well.

Thanks for teaching me that guys!

Jasper

 

[reality2k4]

Bobby, this place is a place of hurt, a place of understanding, and sometimes good things.

If I read through the stuff here, I get to know more about the men here than they would ever show to the World.

Men, boys, they have been hurt, but they have great depth of feeling for others who are hurt.

Where else could I ever feel this, where could a man says he cries? Where can a man show his full feelings? Where can a man explain such deep hurt?

Not many places in his life, he has maybe not lived a life of talking about his hurt, but he was hurt as a kid, and he lives in silence and despair.

What makes this place different, is like, how can we touch it. How many brilliant minds touch you so deeply. How so much wisdom is achieved by those so young who see life in its true meaning.

I can never see me from the outside, only on the inside, if others perceive me wrongly then that is their own gain, and not my loss.

I got knocked down loads of times in life, but I always got back up, it was never easy, and your life must have been so much harder.

Spiritually though, without the hurt, you are still Bobby, the little boy who was honest, caring and true.

I posted a tribute to Jake in my poetry journal, with all the poems you guys did, and the prayer for Jake.

You are a good and caring man, and that to the World is more than anything.

Bobby, we all love you and care loads, so dont ditch this place, I read all your posts and poetry, and it is so sad to read sometimes.

I know that the human mind has such power to heal, and also heal others, and guys here show me that, and you do too.

I have to go, but take care,

ste

 

[FLRich]

Bobby,

Maybe it's my personality. Maybe it's from my SA. I don't know, but I have a difficult time opening up to anyone I see face to face. I know for a fact that I will never tell my parents about this stuff. I don't have the guts. I will tell others to tell their parents, though. Does that make me a hypocrite? It very well may. Add that name to the long list of names that seems to get longer every year I grow older.

I can talk to many guys here, but there are some that I can only share pleasantries with. "Hope you are fine." "Take care of yourself." "It was good chatting with you." Why is this? I think it's a lot like "real" life. I click with some guys, and cannot click with others.

I see your point, though. Would I click with the guys I click with, if I actually saw them face to face? I would like to think so, but the reality is that I would not. There are somethings I will not discuss with anyone, male or female, when face to face. My sexual abuse is one of those things. Now, I have told a few. God, it took me over 25 years to tell my own wife! Since then I have told a therapist...I still cannot keep eye contact with the man. I have mentioned it without any specific details to my pastor. I tried to tell my best friend, in fact, I DID tell my best friend. He couldn't handle it, and we just don't mention it, ever. It makes him uncomfortable. I know he would do anything for me, but I would never ask him to try and understand this. I would never make him uncomfortable again.

That is the true value of Male Survivor. I can tell you guys things that I would tell no one else, and you guys get it! You understand me more than my own wife! More than anyone! I feel comfortable here. So whether this is "real" life or not, it is a real part of my life now. You guys are a part of that real life, too.

I have friends here that I would love to one day meet in person. In fact, I actually pray that one day I can meet them face to face, and give them a hug, like you are talking about. But I am still very guarded and cautious. I still pray for it to happen "sometime before I die." I never pray for it to happen soon. I would be afraid for it to happen too soon. What if we couldn't talk in person? That would hurt me worse than death without ever meeting them.

All that to say, Bobby, this works for me! I may want more one day, but until then, this is still one of the greatests things to come along in my life. You guys are the greatest! I mean that.

 

[Sinking]

Bobby - I enjoyed your post too. Believe it or not, I found myself chuckling a few times. You have a good way of sounding near-desperate for answers while posing your questions in a humorous light.

I think I've asked myself all of the questions you've asked here. And, due to the brilliance and endless wisdom I behold, I have all the answers too.

I agree, we are different, maybe in a similar way to those who survive cancer or those who have near-death experiences (as, no doubt, some of us here have had). I think we survivors tend to see things, life, in a different light than 'others'.

Because of the pain we've endured, because we know there are real monsters out there, because we know that we can overcome nearly anything, because we have seen so much more than most will in a lifetime, we hold life and truth so much more preciously than some. We understand that truth is the key to happiness. We know this because we had to keep the truth silent for too long. And once it escapes into the 'real world', whether it be on this site, in your therapist's office or to the guy in the seat next to us on the bus, the truth offers us a sense of relief and purity. That is the reward.

And who doesn't like rewards? So we keep speaking the truth whether it is about our fears or our love or the horrors we've seen, we keep looking for, and finding, the rewards.

I think that this is probably the silver lining of our pasts, if you can look at it that way. We care more. We feel more. We express ourselves more, more than those who don't know, can't know, who we'd never want to know, what it's like to have lived the way we have lived.

So take your rewards and put them in your pocket and keep finding more. The truth we share is contagious and there's nothing wrong with that.

PS I hope you don't object, but I printed your poem "Who Are You" to show to my therapist tomorrow. I re-read it a couple more times and shared it with my wife too. She asked if you were writing it about me because you so clearly depicted me, unintentionally of course.

Peace to All - John

 

[ForeverFighting]

Can men who haven't been hurt like we have relate like we do? Do you have to have been injured beyond belief to be able to recognize and want to help heal pain in another man?

I wonder about that, too. It does seem like a certain amount of empathy only comes from knowing what another person has been through. And even if I haven't experienced what's causing another person pain, I do know pain. There's a man who lives in my area that I've been told gives speeches like me with similar manarisms and such, but I know this guy, and he's nothing like me. He lives in this little perfect world with a little perfect family. I wouldn't go to him for advice if he were the last man on the planet. Why? Because he doesn't have a clue. He talks like he's speaking from his heart, but he doesn't have a clue. So as a survivor, if I were to go to another man's house to talk about how I'm feeling, I'd definitely go to another survivor. They understand.

I also think a deep bond forms when we know what another person's been through. Maybe men outside of here would get really close if they talked about what was in their hearts. I know a lot of guys who will never do that. If I don't know someone well here, I go read their story. My heart aches for what they've been through, and it draws me closer to them. That's where my parents got it wrong. They spend every day hiding who they are so they can make a better impression. A lady once told me she would like to know my mom, but she didn't think she ever would. She said it would be hard to call my mom a friend, because my mom will never let anyone know who she really is. So the protective stance of not letting anything out is actually self-defeating. It's preventing the love and acceptance we really need.

And while I'm on the subject, I think this is not the real world. I wish it were the real world, but like you said, if we lived next door, "we probably wouldn't be talking like this". I think this is an ideal world. My wife wouldn't understand either, but this site isn't like an online dating site where we're all putting our best foot forward. If this were my best foot, I'd consider amputation. If anything, I think I give a far worse impression of myself than people would see in the "real world". But that's what makes this site so addictive. You know the worst about me--almost as much bad stuff as I know about myself. And yet, you still accept me without judgement. You know the things I do to myself and you look at it as what the abuse did to me. I say I hurt inside; you get angry at the perp who did this to me. No, this is not the real world. But if I had a choice of worlds, I'd live here anyday.