Forgiveness- The possible last step?

[Itsback]

You know my pastor said something that really made sense to me last night

My issue was forgiveness, I told him that I would never be able to forgive those that did this to me. And would not attend a church that forced or told someone that you have to forgive until you can become one with God.

He told me that this church would never force anyone to forgive. But without forgiveness one cannot release the pain that one holds until he forgives. That kind of made me mad but then he explained what he meant.

He said" To not forgive is ones way of holding on to that pain and one will always have issues until they are able to release the pain. (made some sense to me) He also said" You dont have to have that person be in ANY part of your life or even talk to them ever, but until you can forgive them as much as you can you will always have them as a part of your life. And will always have issues with your self.

Now I did not express this exactly but the crux is True. In order to release the pain as much as possible that forgiveness is also part of the recovery. As much as I wanted to tell himm where to put it I knew (unfortunattly) that he was correct. By holding on to the hate they are still part of my life.

Now he also said I dont have to forgive right now. But to keep myself open to the possibility and whether its 10 days or 10 years until I can take that step is up to me but one day be able to take that step and truely release them from my life.

Now my hate runs deep, but damn him for being reasonable.

Anyone else heard that?

P.S. BTW he is experienced in this matter.

 

[Jaysen]

I haven't heard that but it makes a lot of sense and I have to say that I agree with it. There's no way in hell I'm going to do it, but I agree.

Jay

 

[phoster]

there is a post on the spirituality board about forgiveness that i was saying the same thing on. a person forgives as much for yourself as anything. i like the word release a little better. you have to find a point where you let it go. it is okay to still place blame where it belongs and all of that, but at some point you have to let it all go, so you can move on. i also know you can't force it either. it has to come from deep inside, or it is just make believe. to really see the benefit, you have to feel it, not just say it.

 

[Jaysen]

I've always felt like if I let it go, or forgive.. I mean if I don't have all of this hate and pain inside of me then who am I?

 

[phoster]

i went thru a point where i was kind of lost and empty feeling. when you walked around labeling yourself as one thing all your life, and suddenly you strip all that away, it leaves you kind of lost. i think in recovery you lose yourself for a moment or two. it is kind of like the person you thought you were wasnt real, and you have to redefine yourself. does that make sense?

 

[Jeff S.]

Please allow me to throw my two cents in on this discussion. I am a pastor, who is also an abuse survivor. Trust me, I understand the unwillingness to forgive.

Whoever said you can't be accepted by God until you have forgiven is WRONG, DEAD WRONG. We cannot forgive completely, because we are sinners.

What God wants us to do is come to a point of wanting to forgive. God knows our pain. I believe He was there when it was inflicted. He knows the hate and anger it causes. He wants us to be free from that hate and anger.

Now, that's the problem. I agree when someone said, if I let go of my pain, who am I? However, I think that recovery gives us a chance to change who we are into what we can be, free from the hurt and anger.

Also, while God forgives instantly, I believe that for humans, forgiveness is a process. At first, we don't want to forgive. I still don't want to forgive my wife's abusers. Then we get to a point where we want to want to forgive. Then wanting to forgive. And maybe, eventually, to a point where we can actually forgive our perp.

The good news is God forgives us, even when we aren't willing to forgive. So, live in His forgiveness and leave your perp's accountability with God.

Jeff

 

[Paul1959]

Itsback,
I think you hit on some really key points. The goal of forgiveness is not a realistic one in the short term. Be open to getting to that point, but don't make it the goal. It is a Loooooong way off. The goal is to reconnect with yourself and stay connected or whole. I totally agree that the hatred and actively engaging in that negative energy sabotages the healing. Hate gives the perp power over your present day life. They've taken enough, don't give them the present.
When I first told my wife about the abuse, I told her I had forgiven my abuser since I think he, himself, was abused. After more memories came back, I realized I was not ready to forgive him. I don't hate him, but still have a long way to go to dealing with the pain he left.
Take care

 

[Jaysen]

This all sounds great but personally, I like going around hating and NOT forgiving the abusers.

 

[roadrunner]

Jay and others,

I just want to add here that emotions devour energy - HUGE amounts of it. And of all the energy-suckers the two that (for me) seem to exhaust a person the most are anger and hate.

I don't begrudge any of you the right to rage and hate as much as you want. In fact, I think expressing those emotions is an essential stage we have to pass through before we can move on. But the key word here is "stage".

The man who abused me was a sadist and a treacherous sicko of the first order. If I wanted to, I know I could find a LOT of reasons to rage at and hate him to the end of my days. And I did that for awhile. But you know what? After a time I discovered it wasn't getting me any further. I was simply replaying the same old tape and rehearsing the same rage, all to no end. Sure, I felt strong and righteous for awhile, but at the end I was back in the same place.

And I was exhausted. Rage and hate were sucking up energy I needed for other things: for my own recovery, for my family and friends, and for my own creativity and growth in all sorts of ways. Everything else just got reduced to second place while I fumed and blustered.

I'm not urging forgiveness here. I haven't forgiven the predator who abused me and it isn't something I am in a hurry to put on my dance card. But I don't hate him anymore and I don't rage at him either. He means nothing to me. I figure this is the most powerful thing I can do to fight back against him - deny him any ability to divert me from being the good and decent whole person I know I can be.

Perps love attention, but mine, dead since 1994, doesn't get any more of mine. And knowing I can do THAT, my friends, is a VERY good feeling!

Much love,
Larry

 

[Itsback]

Alot of good points here. And emotions do take alot of energy as I am drained at the momment and I am like the energizer bunny and just cant get into the groove. People always thought I was on speed but thats the natural me. Hell when I am dong coke it mellows me out.

Though I am not on the forgiveness trail by any mean it did make some sense in the fact that I still hold that person some place in my psychi. And if one can truely look at it with an open mind and think clearly that point can be seen. Some day maybe when I am sick and tired of that piece of baggage but it will be on my terms.

 

[reality2k4]

This is the thread I posted on forgiveness.

https://malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000391

Your pastor is right, to not forgive embeds the hurt in yourself as your mind reacts to things that hold you back.

I would not be typing this here, if I did not forgive what happened to me, but that was my choice to follow the example of God.

I forgave because I was abusing myself for being abused, for not being strong enough to resist, not being strong enough to stop other kids being hurt, and suddenly when all the weight of the world is on a childs shoulders, something has to give way.

Forgiving is one way of taking away a lot of guilt and blame, and rebuilding your life, and even with forgiving it can still be hard.

Imagine a world where we all got an eye for an eye, where we all get our own back!
I forgave a bully when I was 11yo, I found that forgiving is the best way forward.

Anyone who takes advantage of that gets a stark reminder of who is behind the man,

ste

 

[TX_Space]

Forgiveness is a hard concept to deal with...it's not easy at all. I can't add much more than what was said above...but I thought I'd post a link to an inspirational site that I used to visit daily. This topic was so profound for me that I bookmarked that page.

Forgiveness: The Power That Heals

(MOD: I realize this probably should be in the spirituality section...so you can move it there if you need to.)

One final thought...I struggle with forgiveness constantly...toward my soon-to-be-ex-wife, her allies...my abusers...myself. My priest recognized that about me and gave me the Forgiveness Prayer. It's quite long...and I'll have to type it in...maybe I'll post it over in Spirituality soon. When I'm feeling REALLY unforgiving...I say the prayer every night for nine nights. Amazingly, it helps!!

God Bless You!!
tx_space

 

[Kirk Wayne]

IMHO Its not up to me to forgive ...... Thats gods job, not mine. If it was mine I would have no intention of forgiving.

Kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about abit"

 

[WalkingSouth]

About once every 3 months or so, someone posts a topic on forgiveness on the discussion board. It usually ends up being a long thread with many posts. There also usually ends up being some really heated discussion on the subject, and there have been times when various individuals have simply packed up and left the forum over these discussions.

Don't get me wrong, all of this is good. I truly believe we need this dialogue from time to time. I would just like to point out to those that feel very strongly one way or the other regarding this issue that you have a right to feel the way you do and to express those feelings here. That is part of the healing process, and is, I think, crucial to healing. Also important to the process is hearing and accepting the other person's truth as theirs, and not necessarily something you are called upon to subscribe to.

So with that said (and sorry to sound condescending or preaching), enjoy the discussion.

I happen to fall mostly on the side of forgiving when that is possible. Having said that, I can't say I've been able to accomplish it, at least at this point. Nor am I spending my time worrying about it, or allowing my life to be consumed with hate toward taxi guy or the neighbor kid. Forgiveness will happen if and when it is supposed to and not before.

Lots of love,

John

 

[Trevor]

what about forgiving urself?

 

[roadrunner]

Trev,

That's an important area as well. What do you think about that yourself? Do you feel you need to be forgiven for something?

Much love,
Larry

 

[Trevor]

i guess if i didnt blame
myself in the 1st place then
i wouldnt feel like i hafto
forgive myself for anything.
plus ppl i hurt on purpose
cuz i got hurt, guess i feel
like i should forgive myself
for that cuz i couldnt help
it. stuff like that.

 

[roadrunner]

Trev,

We all know what it's like to be mixed up and feeling guilty about anything and everything.

You should definitely forgive yourself if that's what you think you need. But I think what you really need to do is just learn from the past and then let it go.

It's always a better idea to think about how to make things better now and in the future, rather than dwelling on how bad we messed things up in the past. So often those things were not even our fault.

In cases where you have hurt people, I bet they would want you to just work on improving now, not on tearing yourself up because of what's past.

Much love,
Larry

 

[Itsback]

John posted

"There also usually ends up being some really heated discussion on the subject, and there have been times when various individuals have simply packed up and left the forum over these discussions"

Its amazing what people do when confronted with a subject that brings such emotions. My post was only to bring to light some different view points on the subject. Not to judge anyones point of view as who am I to judge. As I am going through my struggles I try to keep an open mind as much as possible.

I dont want to hurt anymore, No its more than a want I REFUSE to hurt as I once did. I cannot live life as it once was.

To live in the dark why there is so much life around me is not exceptable any longer. I may be the one that is goofy in his thought, so be it. I want to live and am looking for those acts,emotions, tools or reasonings that will help me accomplish my goal and make the process that more understandable.

If you choose to or not to forgive believe me I FULLY understand, but find the things that can pull you from the mire and help you seek the fulfilment that your seeking, cause your here talking about it, so the reason has to be more then hate or wanting to hide as we once did.

Fight the good fight

Pete

 

[reality2k4]

Pete,

I started a thread about forgive in spirituality forum.
Its aim was to relate to what we are forgiving, and not to whom we forgive.

You need to forgive yourself, and save anything else for the future, and when you can realise that you can forgive yourself, then you are going forward.

None of it is easy, and this topic is widely discussed, but think of the hurt you do to yourself by feeling the guilt, and shame that is not yours nor ours.

That is the first step, to forgive yourself, and not keep the blame on yourself,

ste