Forgiveness...for the abusers?

Forgiveness...for the abusers?
Well, heres perhaps a different spin again from me.

I believe I have worked through a level of forgiveness towards my abuser, but now and then I feel intense anger and feelings of hatred (towards him or what he did to me?). That shows me perhaps there are levels of forgiveness I still need to work through.

It has been my personal choice to choose to forgive. It certainly doesnt mean to me that Im saying its all ok now and it was all ok back then (as far as what happened). It was wrong then and will always be and should never have happened and he should never have done what he did to me.

It also doesnt mean Ive gone along the lines of forgive and forget. How can I forget? I have daily reminders by the ways in which my life has been messed up.

My decision to forgive has come out of me knowing that if I harbour unforgiveness in my heart it takes up my time, energy, thoughts etc so, unlike Larry (Roadrunner) I dont see it as giving the abuser my time my choosing to try the whole forgiveness thing. On the contrary, hes got my time and thoughts if I dont. Its now one less thing I have to carry around and thats gotta be helping me.

My final disclaimer: this is whats right for me. You all have the right to form your own views and ways of dealing with all this. I wish you all well on your own personal choices.
 
Shadow,

what if after 10 years i had forgiven my abuser? he would still be out there hurting kids ,my anger and my hate put him back in prison where he belongs . if i had not kept my anger he would be hurting the 15 year old boy that he got caught with as we speak.
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Good point, and you would know your own case best. But can I suggest that anger and hate don't achieve anything positive, except by coincidence? The road of hate and fury would be something like the "baseball bat solution" that Markgreyblue once talked about here. What if what you achieved was attained by a tenacious determination to see justice done. What if you are just pure and simple a good and resolute individual? Should you deny yourself that victory?

Much love,
Larry
 
Forgiveness helps us forget the pain and the trauma we went thru, so that each time we think of our abuse or the abuser, we no longer loose our peace, serenity and composure. That has been the gift of forgiveness for me, having said that let me add that this doesn't mean that I have 'forgotten' the experience itself, NO, that is my guide now, and not my tormentor. I have taken away the power from it, infact I'm taking power from it, it reminds me of what not to be, by respecting all power in life, my own and those of others.

But of course it is our personal choice whether we want to forgive or believe in God for that matter. I dont have to convert anyone, life does that for us. We just have to live the best life we can, right now.

The only challenge is to see life as a benevolent companion. That itself takes away the sting away from life, and makes it painless, and I for one would definitely want that for me.

And after spending a lifetime in darkness and pain I wonder why did I take so long to reach here, and then something reminds me it all happens in Gods time.

And that is my prayer, May we all find the happiness and peace we all deserve.

What I am most glad about here is that I have finally found some people who talk about forgiveness after walking the path and after receiving all its gifts.
 
Morning Star
Forgiveness helps us forget the pain and the trauma we went thru
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Not me it doesnt, you should refer to "ME" & "I" not "Us" & "We" , you dont speak for everyone here.

Edited because I cant spell, and Im a teacher!
 
MORNING STAR

Quote:
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Forgiveness helps us forget the pain and the trauma we went thru
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Sometimes forgiveness does not take the pain nor the trauma alone sometimes it follows us the rest of our lives no matter what we do as a survivor whether we go to a shrink and sit on the couch and pay the therapist 300.00 to 500.00 a session and open the bottle of pain and trauma or if we find our own way of dealing with the pain and trauma without professional help.

See for some of us we have physical damage and scars that will never go away from the abuse and no matter if we forgive or not those scars and the damage will carry over from the abuse for the rest of our lives and we will have to be reminded of the abuse and what the abuser did to us daily every time we look at ourselves in the mirror or every time others look at us.Forgiveness cannot take that pain or trauma away it only gets worse by the day and many times that is why we see survivors take themselves out of this world and out of the abuse and away from the life they once lived sometimes it would be better for those people to no longer have to suffer and no matter what anyone says my personal belief is those survivors that the pain and trauma cannot be taken away from those survivors should be allowed to end their pain and suffering as they need to no matter how they so choose to end their pain and end the living day in and day out of constantly seeing the trauma on their physical body.

MORNING STAR
Quoted:
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And after spending a lifetime in darkness and pain I wonder why did I take so long to reach here, and then something reminds me it all happens in Gods time.
_________________________________________________

I do not concur with this statement that it happens in "G'S" time,i do not belive that it take a lifetime to be in darkness and pain.

Sometimes it is the survivors own choosing to remain in places where they feel comfortable even if that means living in suppresion land and not dealing with the most obvious thing that should be dealt with which is, the healing from the abuse so the person can move from victim to survivor hopefully in a much better way instead of just calling themselves a survivor without actually dealing with the abuse.

My hope is that all of us as survivors can find healing,comfort and peace as we heal and as well talk to those survivors that have gone before us that offer their hand of assistance to help us along the path of healing and survivorship.
 
OK. I've watched this thread ebb and flow for weeks now and am going to put in my $0.02 worth.

The word "Forgive" implies that someone has asked for forgiveness. One cannot forgive if no request has been made for that action. One can let it go, refuse to harbor bad feelings, etc., but it takes two individuals to bring about the act of forgiveness.

Perhaps I'm just superimposing my own definition on the word, but that's the way I see it.

Lots of love,

John
 
Obviously my observations are only meant for fellow beings you are willing to forgive and use that path, but then if you are not willing to right now, feel free to skip it. ;)

Like most victims I too spent a lifetime justifying non forgiveness, till the day I realied that if I am non forgiving,I am non-forgiving towards myself as well.

So take you pick man its your life afterall, but chill!
 
Originally posted by walkingsouth:
OK. I've watched this thread ebb and flow for weeks now and am going to put in my $0.02 worth.

The word "Forgive" implies that someone has asked for forgiveness. One cannot forgive if no request has been made for that action. One can let it go, refuse to harbor bad feelings, etc., but it takes two individuals to bring about the act of forgiveness.

Perhaps I'm just superimposing my own definition on the word, but that's the way I see it.

Lots of love,

John
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John,

This is a very important point. If someone hasn't asked for forgiveness, then it is possible that they don't think they need it.

Then again, there is the idea that those who don't ask for forgiveness are those who need it most. But such arguments are for the theologians and philosophers.

You can consider "true" forgiveness to be a two way street, but I don't think it is anything different if or when we forgive someone without their asking.

Is it something less? I don't think so. In fact I think that we forgive all sorts of things, all the time, without ever being asked. It's almost a staple of modern life.

I am inclined to believe that forgiving without being asked is an expression of the strength, trust and faith in ourselves that we develop.

Or it is a choice we make because we believe that it will be a healing, positive action for ourselves.

I think your definition is too limiting. And, I admit that your words "feel" like they are negating and minimizing choices I (and others here) have made with respect to forgiveness, so I wanted to be sure to let you know how I view and use forgiveness - at least the type not preceeded by a request.

Donald
 
There is a continuity between all of the posts here. It is about releasing the pain of abuse. Everyones path is different. The end result is the same to be right within yourself. Right now I cannot put my abuser in jail. So I still must release my pain. If my abuser were to abuse again or it was 15 years ago I think he would be going to jail. I have a choice now and that is wether to expose him or not. If I expose I hurt and he hurts. If I do not expose and give "Forgiveness" I take away the rage and pain from myself. I do not know my path yet but I am seeking it. If I am mistaken guys tell me.
 
I think John (WalkingSouth) is onto something important here, and I would, if I may, rephrase it slightly to get to the point I want to raise.

John suggests that forgiveness is an act of communication. I seek forgiveness by taking some action myself: admitting guilt, expressing regret, making compensation, whatever. I do this by way of seeking a response from the person I have wronged. I want him to say he "forgives" me.

Donald sees this as too limiting and feels that "forgiving without being asked is an expression of the strength, trust and faith in ourselves that we develop". Or perhaps it's "a choice we make because we believe that it will be a healing, positive action for ourselves".

Andrew76, however, speaks of the "F word" and is entirely opposed to the possibility of ever forgiving the abuser of a child.

But could I ask here: "What IS forgiveness?" What am I saying if I tell someone "I forgive you"? Perhaps we disagree here because we have different assumptions about what it is we are talking about giving.

For me, a definition that sees forgiveness as having something to do with a decision to move forward and just not allow the abuser's past deeds to harm me anymore has nothing to do with forgiveness at all. That's my determination to heal, not my willingness to forgive.

Also, the man who abused me is dead. Can I forgive the dead, assuming I would want to?

I'm not sure I have my definition yet, but I will admit that right now I am not in a place to give this much attention. Whatever forgiveness is, I doubt that I would ever be willing to give it. But I have changed in many ways over the past year, and perhaps I will change on this one as well.

This is really a valuable and thought-provoking thread. It's great that such a delicate and potentially triggering subject can be discussed so calmly here among us.

Much love,
Larry
 
for me the defination of forgivness ,means saying somehow i understand the abusers actions ,that i can rationalize what he did ,that there is some excuse that takes the blame away. its like saying ok what happened wasnt that bad and i can forget it.but can we forget it? no! how can you forgive if you cant forget? forgivness is not something i have within me.not for an abuser anyway shadow
 
I looked up the definition. Most of the items identified "forgive" in words similar to the following.
to refrain from imposing punishment on an offender or demanding satisfaction for an offense
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So by that definition, I would never forgive someone like taxi guy even if he asked because to do so would put others at risk. Such a course would be irresponsible.

I can let it go, refuse to harbor bad feelings about him, learn to even feel sorry for him, I can visit him in jail and tell him these things, I can perhaps become his friend, but I cannot forgive by that definition.

Now I've shared a total of $0.04 so I've overstayed my welcome on this topic.

Lots of love,

John
 
John,

I looked up the definition as well, and it astonished me to find NOTHING that I could remotely relate to in the context of what I think of as "forgiveness".

Refraining from imposing punishment or demanding satisfaction? That's forgiveness? :confused:

I seems to me we really ARE talking an idea that can mean many things to many people. So again, what do we think forgiveness really is? Don't we need to agree what we are talking about before we discuss whether we can do it?

Much love,
Larry
 
A new view of forgiveness is something i have been thinking of which is a person on death row going to be executed for a crime that caused the most unbearable pain and abuse a human being could ever suffer and as the death row inmate looks over as he is being strapped down and the order is given and the inmate asks for forgiveness for his crime i have seen others forgive the person as they die as they can no longer harm another human being.What about the abuser still walking the street after being released from prison or one that has not gone to prison but the both of these subjects are still abusing other human beings and children do they deserve our forgiveness if they are offending others even after they ask for our forgiveness for the abuse we incured but then the abuser turns right around and abuses someone else and if we had thoughts that the abuser would re-offend and we forgive the abuser but someone else gets harmed then we as a survivor sometimes are pulled into a case where the police and the prosecuters try to get all the victims of the offender together should all those survivors and victims forgive the person this is something to ponder.

As well i am not saying that i never could forgive just at this point in my journey I do not see my self forgiving my abuser maybe later on down the road it may happen but I also am not saying that I will ever forget what abuse I had to suffer at the hands of my abuser.Sometimes what we go thru makes us a stronger person if we allow ourselves to learn from the experience and if we take a step back and think about things from other perspectives and from others points of view like what is taking place with this thread which is a great thing we all are bringing good points to the table to be pondered on and checking others points of view so we can draw what the word "Forgiveness really is and the definition of the word as well.

Thank you for the other points of view here it makes me sit back and think of what the other person has gone thru or how they view and feel about certain aspects of the healing from our abuse.
 
I forgive people that absent mindedly do me an injustice!

I will not forgive someone that intentionally set out to repeatedly do me harm, with the intent of gratifying their own perverted needs.

I will not forgive someone that intentionally met those needs with other innocents both before and after meeting those needs with myself!

I will not forgive someone that denied ever doing anything, until he thought it would save his own skin to do so! I will not forgive someone who then tried again to deny that he had done anything.

There are people in this world that deserve my support and energy. That pervert does not and never will. I am offended that anyone should even suggest that I should forgive that pervert anything!

Remember - he never did any of it!

That pervert had an opportunity to admit guilt back in October 2004 - he never took it! I deny him any right to absolution!

Best wishes ...Rik
 
Larry,

Don't we need to agree what we are talking about before we discuss whether we can do it?
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Yup. I think you've hit on an important point.

Who gets to start? Frankly I don't like the definition I came up with. Anyone want to submit a definition so we can all vote? :)

Lots of love,

John
 
John,

My feelings on this are so tangled up right now with personal issues...wow. Clearly we have to think of what "forgiveness" in general is, and THEN see what we think of that in an abuse context.

I don't have a definition yet, but the idea of compassion must be in there somehow, right?

Much love,
Larry
 
True forgiveness is always from the heart, but if you cant you might want to ask yourself, what is it really that I am getting by not forgiving? Because we dont do anything unless we are gaining something from it.

Once you find that things would be easy.

Now that people are taking turns in defining forgiveness let me add mine...

Forgiveness means giving yourself another chance, a fresh start.

Each experience that we go through in the present is culmination of a vast realm of experiences in the past and choices we have made there in. So to mend all of them would be difficult unless we are willing to accept their creation unconditionally - the present.

We can do that by saying, yes I accept this incident and what ever I have been thru as my own creation. Because when we do that, we are changing them as well, we are saying that ok I forgive my self and now I am willing to start again. So forgiveness is never about forgiving the other, it is immaterial for me as it really means yes I am ready to start anew.

Experiences come in all kind, some we can handle and some we cannot, some are supposed to rattle us and some are supposed to shatter us so that the new or better version of us can rise from its ashes.

Because even after a 9/11 what remains unshattered in a nation is the spirit of its people, they rise again to fight back but most of all to recreate, but what we recreate remains our choice, a memorial or a new realm. Then why cant a new realm be the memorial, that reminds us consistently that when we get destroyed we dont finish we only get better.
 
Continuing with the metaphor of 9/11, the choice really is what we do after it, do we stand up, brush our clothes and rebuild what is lost or do we go out to foreign land and hunt down our perp, it remains an individual choice afterall, as to how do we want to use our forces.

What is important for us, rebuilding or retribution, then why cant rebuilding be a retribution.
 
Morning Star said

True forgiveness is always from the heart, but if you cant you might want to ask yourself, what is it really that I am getting by not forgiving? Because we dont do anything unless we are gaining something from it.
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This suggests that forgiveness is something you must either do or not do. As if the middle ground is not an option? I don't have to forgive my abuser, nor do I have to NOT forgive him.

I am in control here not him. I retain my right to neither forgive or not forgive. I am my own man and can control my choices and decisions.

I see that for many with religious leanings forgive because God says they should.

Not because they feel they should or actually want to. They continually refer to the bible for reasons to forgive rather than their own feelings on the matter.

Forgiveness is.....

the act of excusing a mistake or offense
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(Collins English Dictionary)

.... which I will not do. However, I do not allow feelings to overtake me, I feel no need to bring in another variable into my life which only adds to the confusion that 10 years of rape and abuse leaves on an individual.

Alot of people harp on about faith in God because they have little or no faith in themselves, I on the other hand have faith in my self. I have nothing to prove to anyone. God knows all anyway and judges us on what we DO not what we say.

Alot of people SAY alot and DO very little.

Let God be the judge, not me. :p
 
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