Forgiveness...for the abusers?

Forgiveness...for the abusers?
melliferal

melliferal

Registrant
I've heard or read it suggested, in some non-CSA cases involving a victim versus a perpetrator, that one necessary component of a victim's finding peace of mind is to forgive the perpetrator. This advice, it seems, is put forth by some very established psychologists or therapist. Does this reasoning apply to CSA? Do I have to forgive my abusers? I don't know. But I'll tell you one thing - I really don't think so.

As long as you don't let it consume your every waking moment, I don't think a grudge is necessarily a bad thing. Maybe my life hasn't been a walk in the park, but I take something a little like comfort in the idea that maybe my perps' lives have been a little worse.

I don't think I mentioned it here, but I spent the last week of this past January in Las Vegas. I was attending a science/skepticism conference. I was given some help, money-wise, by friends I had only known online. I met them, and met other people I've admired for much of my life. I had so much fun - and it didn't occur to me until quite lately, but I don't think I thought about abuse, or my perpetrators, even once for the whole entire week. You think my perpetrators can go a whole week without humoring their paranoia? Think they'll ever forget about what they did? Ever stop wondering just how much evidence is left that they didn't get rid of, or wondering if that new program really wipes their hard drive's data beyond recovery? Or wondering whether their new online "associate" is actually a cop in disguise? Wondering if they will ever be able to trust anybody for the rest of their lives? Gods, they must be miserable. I could almost feel sorry for them...but I don't. In fact, it almost gives me a sort of comfort. In a way, a child abuser is like a Slinky. For all intents and purposes they're useless; but somehow, seeing one get pushed down the stairs just makes you feel good.

So no, I haven't forgiven my perps - I don't see myself doing so, and I don't see it being necessary. Maybe one day I'll change my mind about that, but as things stand right now, I'm fairly resolved. They say that to forgive is divine - well, maybe. But I'm not a god, nor do I particularly aspire to be one. And my refusal to forgive my perpetrators may not make me a "better man". But it makes me a happy man. And the way I see it, there's enough other things that make me a better man than my perps, that I don't mind allowing myself this one tiny little sin.
 
Forgive?

Never.

I only wish that, one day, I cross paths with them again. I've always wondered how difficult it would be to tear a human body apart, barehanded?

Whicker
 
Melliferal,

My own view is that what adult abusers do to children is beyond forgiveness - well beyond. I don't see me forgiving the man who molested me for four years. He was feasting on other boys the same time he was abusing me, and so far as I know he continued to the time of his death in 1994.

I don't consider myself a cruel, unforgiving or bitter man. If I encountered an abuser who was willing to take responsibility for what he had done and showed genuine regret and contrition, that might be something else. Personally, I also find it difficult to fault a young or teenaged abuser, who himself has probably been abused and is acting out what he has been taught about himself.

At the same time, I have learned to stop investing precious emotional resources in the man who abused me. I have raged and thrown fits lots of times, but now I am done. He simply isn't worth it. I need my resources to heal myself and make up for opportunities lost in the past because of abuse. I choose to become a happy and integrated person who can give and receive love without pain and trauma, and that takes a lot of work.

I have learned to invest only this much in fretting about the abuser - nothing. Today I am back in the States and will go see his grave, but that is only to show Little Larry that he really is gone and that there is nothing more to fear. His power over me is gone and I am through with him forever. Or at least, that is the goal I am aiming for.

Much love,
Larry
 
how can anyone forgive without somehow saying hey it wasnt that bad i forgive you ,bullshit it was that bad! forgiving implies that i somehow understand what my perp did ,i'll never understand nor do i want to. to me it almost means taking some of the blame ,you know ? like saying well maybe i shouldnt have trusted my perp so easy if i hadnt then he would not have been tempted by me. maybe he just couldnt help it ,was my innocence my fault ?i dont think so adam
 
I do not believe forgiveness is at all necessary to healing. To think of it, our healing has nothing to do with our abusers. It is OURS. Yes, their actions make it necessary, but how we heal, it is has nothing to do with them, because it is not for them, it is for us. Why allow them to have any further control on us, specially in such a way to direct how we get better of things?

I had four abusers. One is dead now, and I regret that. I wish I could told him before he died that I give him forgiveness, because I know, somehow, just that he is decent man inside. Why he did what he do with me, I don't know, but I know he is decent. I just do. One is in prison, and I hope forever, because he is most close thing to real evil I can think of. But one, the one who 'arrange' the others to abuse me, and abuse me himself, he was one I was most afraid of still. And I forgave him, and told him I forgive him, last year. It was unreal thing, sometime I still can not believe I did that. But even that, face to face with him, it was for me, not for him. Him and his needs, him and his feelings, they had nothing to do with it. Recently, I have felt anger at him for one certain thing he do, which I did not do before. But it does not take away from the fact I forgive him, and I would the fourth man also if I know how to find him. Because that is what I felt I wanted and needed for healing. Not because anyone tell me I have to do it. Most people I knew were telling me no, you don't have to do that, and did not want me to.

So forgive for you, IF you want and need to. If not, then do nothing. It is your event, your healing, not theirs.

andrei
 
I would find it very difficult to forgive my own abuser(s) or the abuser of any child. The best I can achieve is to feel sadness for them. Peace, Andrew
 
Weigh the true advantages of forgiveness and resentment to the heart. Then choose.

Forgiveness is primarily for our own sake, so that we no longer carry the burden of resentment. But to forgive does not mean we will allow injustice again.
Click to expand...
--the Buddha

I know this is always a touchy subject... when someone suggests forgiveness can help one heal it makes some folks a little angry. Those of you who know me know I would never anger anyone on purpose.

First, let me say that if you spoke to me five years ago I would say, "No way will I even consider forgiving that...[fill in the blank]"

I have forgiven my offender but I didn't forgive him for his sake I did it for me. I am free... I have put my burden down.

You do not have to put your burden down unless you want to or are ready. I am not better then anyone for doing it but nor am I wrong for doing it.

All I am saying is that I'm more care-free then I have ever been in my entire life and part of the reason for this is I have forgiven.
 
My opinion on this will never change!

January 23rd - I went to court fully ready to give evidence against the pervert that groomed and abused me!

This was way back in 1969 - I have lived with it ever since!

I have had one major breakdown, aand several smaller ones because of what he did.

For the last 3 years of my Paternal Grandfather's life, our relationship shifted, and I did not trust him because of what the abuser did. When I went to visit him, I was just waiting to be abused (because everyone did it)!

There were many people over the years that I could not fully trust! Even now if someone does something nice, or says something nice, I have to fight against those silly thoughts that they want something 'more' from me than they say!

It's only because I can express how I feel about this to my friends that I am a Survivor. They support me even when my behaviour towards them is so bad (I test, push and challenge their loyalty).

I am healing, but the perv has no role in that!

I can understand that sometimes children will experiment with each other - what saddens me is how they reach that point.

What I can never understand is how an adult can abuse a child. What I mean by that is that you have one person that fully understands what is going on, and one that doesn't, i.e. they think they have just found a nice new friend that cares about them!

My dream is that someday this site will not be required!

Best wishes ...Rik
 
Unfortunately (or, perhaps quite fortunately), I didn't know my perpetrators for longer than a few months, and I haven't seen them in years. They could be completely different people now - I don't know. They could also be even worse than they were before. Again, I don't know. And as little time as I knew them, I couldn't even make a guess. All I have to go on is what happened during those few months - a purposeful and protracted scheme to break down our inhibitions and get us to do what they wanted without telling anyone on the "outside" about it. It was sinister and intentional. And it worked, of course, but that's neither here nor there. It's this "intention" and premeditation which leads me to believe that there is no decency within these people. And to attack the defenseless shows that they are just as lacking in honor. Again, perhaps I saw something that was, in fact, a temporary stage. Perhaps they are true role models now. Perhaps they are time-traveling robots from Saturn. All I know is what I know. And what I know is that they were fully aware that what they were doing was wrong, and they did it anyway. They were aware enough to take steps to prevent discovery. They were also aware that what they wanted us to do was, as far as kids' behavior is concerned, unnatural enough that some conditioning was necessary to get us to do it. Get what I'm saying? There was just too much planning involved here. That's what prevents me from deeming these people worthy of the dignity of forgiveness, whether that forgiveness is really just "for me", or otherwise.

So, I suppose one could say I "hate" them. But it's not the rage-filled emotionally-charged storm kind of hate - I don't have a photo on my dartboard or anything, and I don't have daydreams about meeting them while having a baseball bat handy. They're villains, scoundrels - unworthy even of what little consideration I give them. If my heart were the sun, they would be sunspots - dark regions of (relatively) cold nothingness, isolated, while the rest of the surface burns brightly all around them. If I were asked to describe my feeling, I wouldn't so much call it "hate" as maybe contempt. How can I forgive someone from such a position? I can't - at least not now. As I said in my initial post, someday that might change. I'm not so foolish as to think that's impossible. But as it stands now, it's not happening.

Meanwhile, don't think I look down or misunderstand those who do decide to forgive. They're just at a point I'm not at yet. Maybe that point isn't "higher" or "lower" on the "healing scale" than where I am now - maybe it's sort of sideways, if that makes sense.
 
Today, I am at a juncture where I can say that yes I have forgiven, but I reached here only when I decided that to really move I had to forgive, or should I say, I bored carrying the emotional baggage and hurts from my abuse, so I decided to chuck it all out, one day and moved one free.In fact that was the most selfish act I have ever done.

But more important than that was to forgive myself, because till I did that my forgiving others was just a lip service. I really had a deep seated resentment against myself, just as I continued to hated others whom I had supposedly forgiven.

For I still balmed myself for all of it. and when I learned to forgive myself, I learned to forgive my abusers.

Just as love real foregiveness begins with forgiving one self first.
 
forgiveness...
to see another human being who, in their own pain, made such an evil msitake and harmed an innocent, but later profoundly and deeply regreted it...this, i could someday perhaps forgive, for they were human all along, but made an evil choice, yet felt that remorse for it. the predatory ones, though, they forsook their humanity a long time ago through their own choice. when i think of them, the rage knows no bounds. one cannot forgive what is no longer human, i think. yet, there is that very important thing that has been pointed out here...it is about our individual journey of healing and recovery that we make the choices we do. there are two that fit that predatory, inhuman stigma for me. i recall some time ago that i found out one of them was living ninety minutes away from me after thirty years of him being vaguely "elsewhere". now, he was practically right next door to me. i was going to go after him. i came here instead and starting talking abut it. this is where i found out what might be meant in making the choice for one own's self.

the rage i felt then is still so very here with me, however, it was that rage over an inhuman predator that almost drove me to be something i am not. i don't know if it is about forgiveness, i do know it is about finding a path of peace for one's self, and not comprimising what one is iinside. to go off and hunt this evil down and let my rage explode would have been wrong for me, the man i am and am trying to be. iintervention iin the defense of another innocent is competely differrent though. even then, it is about remaining true to who i am and who i am trying to be...a man who will see no other innocent harmed if i can iintervene, but also a man who will retain the integrity and dignity i have fought so damned hard to acheive. the predatory evil will not take that humanity from me. i believe i digressed lol. yes, theo is back brothers ;)
 
As I have heard, until you forgive the perp, the per is still controlling you. I can conceptually undertand this thought. As a Christian, I am taught this throughout the new testament. But again, it is nor for the perp, but for you. There are also at least two others that must be forgiven...1) is you and 2) is God (or your higher power).

Oh by the way, the definition of "Perp" is really broad. If you are interested in learning about this from a Christian perspective I have two suggestions:

1) The Wounded heart by Dan Allender

2)Hope Recovery by Beth Moore. This is an incredible 5-cd set that walks through all of this. She spends an hour talking about the pain that God felt as your abuse was happening. Definitely worth the money.

Finally, my biggest issue regarding forgiveness is that I feel nothing toward my perps. I did have a recent rage session and I wanted to rip my mothers head apart - not only off. But for the three know perps, I feel nothing. How can you forgive what you do not fill??

Thanks for letting me rant.

Danny
 
I was just kicking around the idea of when Jesus asked the Father to "forgive them for they know not what they do" when people were killing Him. Seems to me that they knew what they were doing. But the far reaching ramifications? No they couldn't have known. He was just a pain in their ass. The guy who abused me? Would he have done what he did if he took the time to clear-headedly really think about the fact that it would impact me for the rest of my days on this planet? Man I gotta believe no, he just wanted to get his rocks off. He deserves to be forgiven because he's so pathetic. Whew! Thanks for the rant. D.
 
I'm not so sure I agree.

I can forgive myself for, as a child, going along with the abuse because I could not have been expected to consider the implications and far-reaching ramifications of such things. However, adults - especially those who have, or are at least capable of having, their own families, don't get as much leeway. These perpetrators are not children, so I cannot excuse them for having a child's lack of consideration or foresight.

Maybe other perps are different, granted (for example, perps who indeed are children themselves). But I'm only dealing with mine. And again, as I mentioned, there was just too much planning here on the part of my perps. It wasn't a grab-the-kid-off-the-street thing; I was (I believe the relevant term would be) "groomed".
 
Just a MAJOR point of clarification.

Forgiving perps is not letting them off the hook. It is you releasing yourself from their control. They deserve every consequence that comes their way. That will be between them and the courts, society, their conscious (if they ever develop one), and finally, their God.

By no means am I supporting the allieviation of consequences for the perps. I am saying that until we can let it go, it has control over us.

the anger and desire for revenge is still controlling you. Do you want those assholes to have that power over the adult in each of you. I don't.

As a child we had no choice. As adults we do once we have reached a state in which our recovery will allow us to make that choice.

This forgiveness cannot be a token measure and can only come after we have all done a lot of gut wrenching recovery work. We may be 90 before we are able to do this. We may never get there...and that is ok. At least we are on the journey with a heart that is healing and willing to continue to heal.

Have a blessed day everyone.

Danny
 
No chance. It was my anger that kept me alive (and very nearly killed me) but today I have learnt to direct that anger into more positive action. Forgiveness for my abusers in not in my vocabulary.

Kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"
 
Indeed; when I first came to recognize (at the time, it was almost something I had to "concede" to myself) my abuse as such, I became angry at all the wrong people. I was at different times antisocial and self-destructive (perhaps not dangerously so in the physical sense, but still). When I finally realized who really deserved that anger, the antisocial and self-destructive feelings and tendencies fell from my shoulders, and I left them behind in the dust.

Do I look to the future with the thought of revenge sitting on a back burner in my brain? You betcher. My perps belong in jail - but I cannot put them there; I don't remember enough of the important details to make it happen. Yet. Perhaps I never will - and that might make me even angrier - or perhaps I might. Sometimes things fall together. Meantime, I sate my anger by doing what admittedly little I can do to see others like my perps be brought to justice. I can see a hundred other pedophiles hauled in and jailed, and it will never be enough until my own sense of justice is fulfilled, and there's only one way that can happen.

In any case, it takes resolve - and forgiving, forgetting, marginalizing, or ignoring my abuse in favor of some pretense at serenity threatens that resolve. How can one remain honest to himself by "forgiving" his perpetrator one the one hand, and longing for (and working for) legal justice on the other? By dissociating. By transferring the injustice - making it no longer an injustice against himself, but rather an injustice against "society" of which he happens to be a part. And "society" is not "myself", therefore the perp's going to jail may be important but not as important as it used to be. "Life goes on".

Not I. I am not one of the bees I keep. This crime was committed against me, and I must have satisfaction. Seeing my perps in jail is the only way to obtain closure. It's my "White Buffalo". My own personal Dark Tower, for the King fans among you.
 
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