FORGIVE????????

FORGIVE????????
what i do when this subject comes up is go to the my story forum and go back and read as many of them as i can stand ,if you can do that and still think of forgiving ,every post of despair and desperation on this site tell me that no perp deserves forgivness,i'll ask my question one more time if its not my fault ,if everything i have been and done since my abuse was a direct effect of that abuse then what the hell do i have to forgive myself for? there is a huge difference between forgiving something like abuse and forgiving some petty wrong i might have done in my life!!!yeah maybe i stold food from a store to eat ,wrong ?yes but how the hell does that compare to abusing a child!? saying we have to forgive is not right ,every person has to make their own choice and one shows strength ,and just maybe the other shows weakness its up to us to decide which is which . another post kind of refers to this subject but i see a different response ,the post about johnathon king ,every response says its a great thing hes been shut down on myspace and will be arrested sooner or later for things he has done ,when that happens should we forgive him ? then why bust them at all ? so we can spend a million dollars giving him the help he needs while in prison while his victims starve because they cant function in society?
 
I hear you there Shadow and Mike!!

Nobs? Are you saying that we're OBLIGATED to forgive even if they don't want it?

Another point: I HAVE forgiven my perps and I STILL don't feel any better about myself. What's THAT all about? Seriously, I have forgiven them, I don't want to carry hate in my heart, but I STILL don't feel "healed" or "better". It's frustrating to hear others say "Wow I wish I was so far along in healing that I could forgive like you have". But, it has not done me any good thus far.

So.........I find myself kind of asking Jacob's question myself. "I mean, it is for our benefit, so if it does not benefit us why do it?"
 
Originally posted by Hauser:
Nobs? Are you saying that we're OBLIGATED to forgive even if they don't want it?
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No, I'm not saying that at all. Forgiveness is a choice. I personally believe that it is the right choice, and that is all I have said.

Another point: I HAVE forgiven my perps and I STILL don't feel any better about myself. What's THAT all about? Seriously, I have forgiven them, I don't want to carry hate in my heart, but I STILL don't feel "healed" or "better". It's frustrating to hear others say "Wow I wish I was so far along in healing that I could forgive like you have". But, it has not done me any good thus far.
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If you have truly forgiven your perps, then that is a major step. Your statement says it all. When I read "I don't want to carry hate in my heart," I get a great feeling inside, because getting rid of hate is the beginning of learning to love.

Hauser, one thing I have noticed is that you are very hard on yourself, and perhaps that is why you don't feel you are making progress. The only thing I can recommend (because we have never met and I don't know you well enough to give you specific advice) is that you use the same logic you used to forgive your perps; "I don't want to carry hate in my heart," to learn to stop hating yourself. I honestly think you are 3/4 of the way there already, so maybe that statement is the key.

So.........I find myself kind of asking Jacob's question myself. "I mean, it is for our benefit, so if it does not benefit us why do it?"
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Well, I would argue that you are benefiting because you are freeing your heart from hatred. Maybe it is a matter of time before you see the other benefits within your healing process. Or maybe its like I said before; you are well on the way in your healing, but you need to go a little easier on yourself so you can see the positive changes. At any rate I am very happy to hear that you have forgiven your perps. It is a very courageous thing to do and I salute you.
 
It would be nice if I FELT BETTER about forgiving them, and t's been quite a long time since I've done it too.
 
The statement: "Some things cannot be forgiven." receives the response: "Why not?" The statement also illicits the response: "That we all hurt others."

Well OK, I believe that in my lifetime I will have hurt others in some way! What I do not do, is repeatedly hurt others without any real justification for my actions! I certainly have never been in a position where I set out to systematically hurt other members of society! I will never be in a position whereby I would systematically hurt /groom / abuse the most vulnerable and precious members of our society - INNOCENT CHILDREN!

As I stated above, the perp that groomed and abused me, used others both before and after me for his own gratification!

I finally externalised my anger in 2004 (abused in 1969), directing it back towards the perp (a very positive use of anger). The positive result of that anger is that a conviction was achieved and the perp had 'his toys' taken away from him for good in March of this year (good being life). I was 12 when I was abused (he was 32) - I believe that on March 17th 2007, a part of me will finally reach it's 13th birthday - 36 years too late. The court case ended his 40+ years 'career'. If he decides to start 'playing with his toys' again, he goes straight to jail. Is a 40+ years career of abusing children really forgiveable????

Is the implication that I should have said, "OK, JF what you did to me and numerous others had no real impact upon our lives. We are all now absolutely well balanced individuals thanks to everything that you did for us. If it hadn't been for your actions, we would never have made it this far, to be such well rounded adults. I really hope that you abused many more people than I actually believed you did, because they will have benefited immensely from the experience."

That would be absolute bollocks - he deserves every bit of pain that he feels, and I'm sure that he does not feel enough! It is my firm belief that if he had not been stopped, he would still be up to his old tricks.

When I mention forgiving myself (earlier post), what I mean is that for years I blamed myself for allowing it to happen! I was an intelligent (if naive) kid - how did I fall into his trap? That is why I say I forgive myself!

I previously stated that my energies are better spent supporting those who need it, rather than on forgiving paedophiles.

I am currently supporting a friend who has been diagnosed with a tumour, and who will shortly be having an operation to improve matters. I am also supporting a friend who is in the early stages of preparing to take a stepfather to court for paedophile activities (multiple abuse of several members/generations of the same family). These are the people that deserve my energy!

JF can go rot in the hell of his own making! Forgive him? I wished that years ago I had realised what he was doing was wrong! I may have had the opportunity to push him off one of the railway bridges where he abused me, as a train was passing underneath! I think the courts would have understood that one!

Forgive? NO, NO, NO - NEVER.

Best wishes...Rik

What has been taken is far to precious, and cannot be given back! It is far too precious to have a price!
 
What has been taken, and why can't it be given back?
 
Surely that is a rhetorical question!?
 
innocence ? wonder? faith? the ability to trust? the look in a kids eyes when he sees a rainbow ,the feeling in his heart when he is accepted ,but yes we did get something in return so maybe the perps are not so selfish, we got shame, guilt ,despair ,depression ,panic attacks ,ptsd. confusion ,betrayl, should i go on ? what was taken was our chance to grow and develop normaly ,which is essential to function in society, they call it abuse but lets be serious k? its murder,because a wonderfull innocent human being ceased to exist , oh yeah maybe we survived ,but can you honestly say that the survivor is the same person that went into hell ?the first time my perp hit me an 11 year old boy died ,it was like i aged one year every time he hit me ,i went into hell a kid,i came out an old man ,tell me please how i can get that back?
 
This would be my first post on this forum.

I have never shared my story with anyone else, nor feel like i would be doing it in real life anytime soon.

For me there is nothing but hate for the perp. who ruined my life. It might be possible for me to overcome this anger, but whenever i think about how my innocence was taken from me, i could feel nothing but utter rage.
 
Originally posted by Thomson:
This would be my first post on this forum.

I have never shared my story with anyone else, nor feel like i would be doing it in real life anytime soon.

For me there is nothing but hate for the perp. who ruined my life. It might be possible for me to overcome this anger, but whenever i think about how my innocence was taken from me, i could feel nothing but utter rage.
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Hi Thomson and welcome. In your sig you write "There is enough light for one to see the truth."

That is definitely true about Malesurvivor. There is a lot of light here, and also a lot of darkness.

Forgiveness is a stage. Some would argue it's a stage of recovery, but I don't see it that way. I see it as a stage in becoming truly alive. You may not be there yet, but that's ok, everyone is on their own path. Coming here was a step in the right direction on that path.

I'll give you the Malesurvivor greeting: I am glad to see you here, but I grieve what brought you here.
 
how do i get it back?
 
Why? Cant we get it right!
Figure it out, you are all using the blame
and guilt tactics on yourselves.

Anger, get yr own back, guilt, depression,
all theirs not ours to carry around.
When you harbor thoughts like this, you
are letting it eat at you.

Pain! What is that?
I can stand pain but not hurt.
Hurt is so different, in that it makes you feel
different from all around you, and it is the progression of guilt and anger eating at your souls.

I have been guilty and wracked with anger and hurt since 10yo, so I need a break to find the little me.

You all do, and as for the perps, they will all suffer one day, believe me,

ste
 
Would anyone tell a vegetarian that they would never be truly alive unless they ate meat?

I hope the answer is no!

It's the same for me and paedophiles - I don't need to forgive them to feel 'really alive'.

I've got to say that anyone that is overly concerned with forgiving paedophiles, just seems like an apologist for them. Forgiving them is the lowest priority on 'my things that I want to do with my life' list!

The only time I seem to get angry about a specific paedophile now, is when others tell me that I will not be happy until I forgive him! I've taken him to court, I've actually confronted him face to face! I know how he ticks. I know that he is frightened of me now! I know that he still wants to play with little boys penises! If anyone here thinks that's OK, I think they're in the wrong place!

When a paedophile is confronted with his crimes, and actually stands up and says: "yes I did it and I accept all responsibility for my actions, please lock me up and throw away the key, because if you don't I will continue to offend." Maybe then I might be able to head somewhere down the path of recognising that person as someone who mught deserve some forgiveness! What percentage of paedophiles actually stand up and say yes I did it! It wouldn't even register on a graph!

I can forgive someone that robs me because they are starving. I can forgive people that make stupid comments on the spur of the moment. Grooming,abusive paedophiles ...NO!

Sometimes, it is the light that is dark, and the dark that is light!

Best wishes ...Rik
 
Rik, you can believe me or not, but he would not even look at me faceways.
All I ask is that you forgive yourself not them.

My perps(s), I dont know if they still are living or dead, but I dont give a fuck, they are dead in my mind.

I met a perp in the high st today, and he flipped when he saw me, and was obviously carrying a load of hurt, placed upon him.

Not my perp, but he is one, and he knows that I know, but I only had to make eye contact and he totally just wanted out.

You have been let down by society and law, not us, so please read between the lines, and not go off on a tangent,

ste
 
somebody please tell me what we need to forgive ourselves for? abuse is someting we all have in common many of the effects are the same ,yet each case affects each victim differently ,its a very individual thing ,as is forgivness,you can no more say i have to forgive than you can say i have to believe in god ,not forgiving is a choice not a punishment . i consider my forgivness a gift and i aint giving any gifts to animals this year. if i forgive the perp then whos really to blame?god maybe? but no we have free will,so we cant blame god ,well i guess maybe its just shit happens huh? one thing thats great about this place we can disagree about stuff but still be friends ,each opinon has its own merits for the person expressing it ,i dont think you guys are wrong to forgive ,please dont think we are wrong if we dont ,its just that we make different choices and for each of us only we can decide if the choice is good or bad. the text books say forgive ,but then we all know the books dont apply to each individual situtation do they? for MEand only me forgiving is giving in ,letting go of my anger is giving in ,as long as im angry then im still alive and still fighting . i deserve to be angry ,much more angry than i really am ,if i forgive him then its the same as saying he did nothing wrong ,that the abuse wasnt that bad ,i think that not being angry and forgiving is not healing its denial something we tend to do a LOT ,MAYBE THE GUYS THAT ARE PISSED OFF AND WONT FORGIVE ARE FURTHER ALONG IN HAELING THAN THE OTHERS?instead of the other way around. i know thats a radical concept but again i can only speak for me and i wont attempt to make my truth anybody elses . shadow
 
shadow, we are maybe further along, I may be.
Dont let anger into yr blood, you are just taking it out on yrself.
I am not ssying forgive them, but forgive yourself for the torture you find yrself in,
thats all,

ste
 
im not to blame for the torture i find myself in
 
Originally posted by RICK57:
I've got to say that anyone that is overly concerned with forgiving paedophiles, just seems like an apologist for them.
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I am not even going to dignify this with a response.
 
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