Feelings. Including the irrational ones.

Feelings. Including the irrational ones.
T

TRACYUK

Registrant
This post is about a female ally. Please dont read if you think you might not want to hear it.

You have just found out that the person you love most in the world has been attacked. In my country and I think the world over its a moral, legal, emotional and physical crime.

If I saw a stranger being attacked I'd try to face the attackers and I'd ring the police.I'd tell family, friends or neighbours so they'd have support and I'd be witness in court if they wanted that.
But This is isn't an anonomous stranger, its someone you love with all your heart, who you share a life with, you've both always helped each other out before, in the ways you know and are familiar with.
And what do you do in the face of the knowledge of this attack? Nothing!! At least it feels like nothing.
You don't tell a soul because that adds to the crime. You just listen. and inside you feel.....fury (at the agressor and every goddamned person who didn't protect him), depths of compassion you didn't know you had, a weird sort of maternal protectiveness that you don't recognise, overwhelming love, an energy to DO something that possesses you, guilt for the times you've scolded him when he's been uncomunicative with your friends,

So.... Lesson Number one. You've got lessons to learn. Lessons you didn't know existed.

It feels like a ship has been launched and you have your own responsibilities for that ship but you don't know what they are. You know it has gaping gashes in the side and you fear it might sink, should you try and mend those gashes. NO, because then he feels controlled. He has to mend them. and if that ship sinks in the meantime.... well... can't think of the words.

Lesson No 2. That fear of it all sinking is big. and it isn't going to go away, not as yet for me anyhow.

Lesson No 3. Your'e best friend is too close to this issue to help you in your time of need, this is the biggest crisis that you've ever had to deal with and you have lost him as your confidant. You can't lean on him like you have in the past, nor can you lean honestly on friends or family because they musn't know. You can ask him what you can do, answer nothing.

This is leaving aside the fact that at first he told you the details, quite easily, about the 9 years of secret unprotected sex with anonomous men you've just found out about. You learn later he can chat because he's zoned out. Later when he's not zoned out he can't get the words out, holds himself and sits so hunched and stiff and frozen you just don't recognise him. But before you learn about zoning out and reenacting, does anger come close to describing what you feel. Not really. You scream at him, you slap his face and you demand he finds the tel No of the local HIV centre so you can make an appointment and you kick him out of the house.

Its days later that you find out about the abuse. Then you learn what guilt really is all about. Then all those feelings of love and protectiveness collide with the anger at him at you.... well frankly I don't know how either of us got through that period.

I'll try to illustate the feelings of uselessness. I read and read and read, good books, helpful books, insightful books. "Ask permission to touch him, don't talk when he speaks, listen. and keep listening... this isn't about you its about him.. OK That makes sense. when he talks I'll listen. A time comes up. he's talking, his pain is palpable and boy am I listening.. he tells me some progress he's made with his therapist and inside I'm leaping up and down, I'm cheerleading him I'm whistleing loud and shouting YES..I'm doing really well,no suggestions, no opinions, all I do is smile and try to look encouraging. He pauses... Are you sure you are not a smiling assassin?? he asks.

Is that lesson No 4? Learn not to smile in a way that makes you look like a killer. No. I'll go shopping and wait until he can trust me.

I don't have much experience of the waiting. Its only been three months and so far we are in and out of crisis I think.

Any insights on the waiting, good people? What is there to look forward to emotionally on that one.

I say this tongue in cheek because inbetween all that pain I can honestly say that the progress, both his and mine has been nothing short of exhilerating. We all talk about small steps but when they happen a shaft of light burns down and your loved one suddenly gets bathed in it. In fact you both get bathed in it. I know we will get there... wherever there may be.. I do know it will be out of the blackness.

Joy and peace are two words I didn't really have in my vocabulary before this. I think thats because I'd never felt them before. Its made me realise you have to go pretty low before you can really see the highs.

I hope that other partners, spouses friends etcc can add their feelings to this post. Its been a breath of air into me to realise that I'm not on my own. I know some of things I did in those early days deserve to be judged but I accept that and the fact remains. I am human. and just trying to love someone the best way I know how. as I said lesson No one. Theres lessons to be learnt.

Tracy
 
One thing caught my attention. People, loved ones or friends, that know a CSA survivor's story often feel helpless. The worst thing to take away from that is to leave the person alone with it, which is a common unfortunate outcome. A better initial step would be to share that past, listen to whatever is re-emerging. To the survivor, it is old news but feels fresh. To the witness, it is new and feels new. In reality it is done, the actual abuse is done. What is not done is the release. It makes me sad to think of all the survivors out there that told someone and they cared for a minute or so and then dropped it like a hot potato. To a survivor, that is rejection. Its not always the intention, but thats what it is.

I don't know if this is the right place for this response but that's what came to mind.
 
another hard one is feelings towarsd the abuser.

Once able to successfuly place the blame at the right door, his, (at least I'm 90% there, coz the fact remains that faced with a choice to have a sex life with me or with the dirtiest old men my partner could find, he didn't choose me).. anyway.. the abuser. He is to blame for: my strained and sometimes non existant sex life, my extended stress sick leave on an otherwise blemish free absence work record, my proffession prizes people who can handle the pressure. In the future am I likely to explain why I was off sick to a potential employer. No.
My loss of some friends, my partner finds it increasingly difficult to feel OK with gay life talk and my best friend is gay. Try having that conversation with someone. "Do you mind not discussing large sections of your life when with us, in particular if you really fancy shagging someone". So now my best friend isn't really welcome in our house. Abuse being about abuse and not sex is something my partner struggles with still.

I'm in pain, my loved one is in pain, there is dispair and rage, hurt and mistrust. We won't be spending xmas with family. We'll be going away, probably abroad to mitigate the discussions about not being there for xmas dinner.
Do I want to go away for xmas? Not really. I don't want any of this and why is it all in my life.

Because you abused my loved one when he was 9 years old.

I want to find you and confront you. The details of that confrontation don't belong here but lo... they would be ugly.

and heres the irony. In all my urges to seek retribution with you because of how you have turned my life inside out, I am impotent. I cannot find, speak or contact you. Because my loved one means more to me than you do and because he doesn't wish it.

Frustration doesn't name it and I have flashes of what its like to feel controlled. Any retribution with this man and his family is totally in my partners control. No matter how much the abuser messes my life up I have no say in the matter. Its right but its hard.
 
Hi Tracy.

Your post really lept out at me for the simple reason being this is how my wife must have reacted in some ways. Early on in our relationship I disclosed to her my past "homosexual" relationships. This is exactly what I thought they were as a few of my abusers had brainwashed me into thinking I was "either gay or at the very least bisexual". I think at the time I was testing her to see how she reacted as I saw myself as a pretty disgusting human being. However what I didnt tell her was at what age these "relationship" commenced. I was fourteen and trapped by my abusers as I occasionally found myself homeless due to family dysfunction and they offered at first to support me. I fell for it hook, line and sinker.

About six months after my first disclosure to her I disclosed to her again after seeing one of my abusers on the television it was infact Jonathan King (I take it you are in the UK hence the UK at the end of your name). I had been drinking and it all came out in one fell swoop and after that I clamed shut again, she would not approach the subject as I was liable to go ballistic as I did when drinking (I'm a recovering alcoholic and addict).

The thing that really jumped out at me was your statement of "my strained and sometimes non existant sex life, my extended stress sick leave on an otherwise blemish free absence work record, my proffession prizes people who can handle the pressure. In the future am I likely to explain why I was off sick to a potential employer. No2.

The pressure on my wife I learnt was severe so severe she had to give up work altogether, especially the stress I put her through about MY sexual identity crisis, MY drinking to oblivion, MY sudden outbursts of pure rage and MY suicide attempts. Fortunately I got sober so I had to face my demons head on and we gradually got better, its still not cured and I dont think it will ever, as that word sex frightens the life out of me. I can cuddle her and thats about it and I know it is so selfish but I still cannot break that link between love, sex and abuse. I feel as though I have abused her when we have managed to get physical and at that point I get really angry (with myself).

I dont know if this has helped any but after reading your post I felt I had to write something. If its way of beam I apologise.

Best wishes

Kirk
 
My post wasnt directed so much at your situation but I thought I had to get down on "paper".

To comment on some things you said, I want to let you know that I hear what you are saying and it sounds like you are going through emotions that a survivor feels. However, blame and fault is a dead end street, nothing but long lasting anger will come from that. Responsibility is better way to reference the action. The abuser is responsible for the actions not the abused and not you. Lets say the abuser is dead, if you look for conflict and blame there would be no release and you would be stuck there with the same feelings.

If you are spilling your guts out, by all means go right ahead. You haven't said anything so far that is unusual or hasn't been said before. You are in the right place, that's for sure. Sorry for that.
 
Tracy,

I told you in PM I would leave this one to partners, but.... :)

I just want to say this: Go get him Tracy!!!

All this stuff is what YOU need to say about YOUR issues. The bastard wrecked your happiness as well as your partner's. You have a right to be furious. Claim it and say how it feels.

Take care,
Larry
 
Tracy,

I've read your post 3 times today. I'm at work and can't sit down and properly add my own, but I want to and I will.

I love the attack mode you find youself in sometimes - I'm with you 100%! Hurting people is bad, but sometimes......Grrrrrrrrrrrr!

I'll write later or tomorrow.

Trish
 
Believe it or not, I have no desire to confront my fiance's molestors. I wish them death but I don't want to confront them. Probably because I know that one day, they will both be out of jail and while the stepfather, at this point, is pretty much a moot situation, he's moved on to something else in prison because he makes no attempt to contact my fiance at all, but his mother? She'll be out and she'll be on our doorstep so, inevitably, there will be a confrontation and given this woman's penchant for violence, sometimes I wonder if I'm going to open my door to the barrell of a gun. I guess that's why I really don't contemplate confronting her. There's no point and no reason for what she did. It was heinous and evil and she can't even use the lame butt excuse some incestuous mothers use in that she was 'replacing' a 'missing or absentee' man in her life. She saw her boyfriend do it and thought it was a good thing and joined in. There's no excuse for that and there's nothing I could say to her that would make her see that. Sadly.
 
Tracy
you know how I feel about the partners of survivors, and the incredible tasks they face, you also know how much I appreciate the love and support I have from my wife. I know 100% that it saved me, which is why I'll do all I can to help a partner through these difficult times.

I also do it because I know that so many survivors change as we grow older, we begin to experience the effects of our abuse and become different people to the the person our partners first knew and fell in love with, and I honestly believe that that person is still inside us, we can return to that man you guys fell for.
That's the true man that we are, the abuse gives us a shell that we retreat into, or a fire that burns out of control, whichever way we go we're not ourselves.

We're here somewhere, fight alongside us and help us return to the men we were.

Dave
 
You said this so well, Tracy.

I really identified with some of your descriptions. Especially your rage at the abuser. I feel that too. We found my husband's abuser, have hired a lawyer, and hope to get some justice while protecting others from going through the excrutiating pain my husband has. I think about how I would rage at the abuser if I saw him face to face. My husband's therapist says that these people are sociopaths and their logic is so screwed up that nothing I say is likely to make him feel remorseful. Still, I sometimes think about that type of confrontation. But I try to stay focused on finding peace for my husband and for myself. He is mending his life and we are mending our life together, and it is good for me to stay focused on the positives. Still, we are determined to put that sociopath behind bars.
 
Tracy, this is an excellent thread, thank you for starting it.

I should say that what follows is some of MY perspective and experience as a partner of a male survivor, and not the official word of an administrator, and it is

****TRIGGERING*****

So if you don't think you can handle some harsh truth from a secondary survivor, you might want to stop reading here.


So much of what partners/friends/family feel is the inability to express what's going on with us... can't turn to anyone else with it for fear of further hurting/betraying the survivor, can't go to the survivor with it for fear of doing worse--

And some people are even shamed BY THE SURVIVOR for the things we are going through... how many of you have heard (or said) "Why would YOU need help for MY problem" or "You have no reason to react this way, you CHOOSE to deal with this stuff by dealing with me, you weren't the one abused, you can walk away from it all anytime you like" "You're trying to own my problems" "I can't handle your feelings" "It's too hard for me to think about how I've hurt you".... there is a nasty threat in this last one that if a partner continues to have "bad" feelings, it will be the partner's fault when the survivor is upset about those things that the SURVIVOR has done which hurt the PARTNER. That is unfair, as are all of these things which I have heard and read in this forum over time.

We focus so hard on being all the things that are so important for us to be-- supportive, helpful, peaceful, patient-- this creates so much PRESSURE-- it has to go somewhere... so does the rage, sadness, shame and all the rest of it... I am sure that for some survivors on these forums, those emotions in a partner are incredibly scary and triggering to face. BUT THEY EXIST.

Fozzy said:
I want to let you know that I hear what you are saying and it sounds like you are going through emotions that a survivor feels.
Click to expand...
This is true of MANY partners, friends, and family members when they learn that someone they love has been sexually abused. It is why they are often referred to as "secondary survivors."

I think some of the responses that seem to be directing Tracy away from her feelings of rage and blame are missing the mark. This is a forum intended for family and friends of male SA survivors to openly discuss how male sexual abuse has affected them. They have a right and a need to process ALL of it and I think Tracy showed consideration and caution in how she chose to share those emotions that might be difficult to others (by stating at the top of her post that it was the perspective of a partner and by starting another thread previously about whether or not this would be okay to do).

I don't think many people here would tell a survivor who had only started dealing with his SA two or three months ago that he should focus on being peaceful, or being a better listener, or letting go of his rage and blame. Yet partners are often expected to absorb the emotional blow of disclosure and hit the ground running with the rest of this stuff-- and forget about time or permission to deal with any of the "collateral damage" done to the relationship because of the survivor's symptoms or acting out-- nope, those are frightening, overwhelming issues that can only be handled on the survivor's timeline.

I have been meaning to start a thread on this same theme for a few days, my perspective is a bit different having dealt with some of this stuff for long enough to regain equilibrium... but people-- you can say and feel all these scary things and it will not diminish your strength and capability as a loving, patient, supportive ally. It will just make you human. What will DE-humanize anyone is denial of their needs and feelings. And so many of us do this to ourselves.

So who is out there, who needs a safe place to share from the perspective of a mostly loving and supportive (but once in a while very angry) partner?
 
Wow. OK, here goes.

While the knowledge of my b/f's s/a is not new to me, the effects of it are. How could I have known what happened and not put the puzzle pieces together to see how it had damaged the man I love? How could I profess love and then not see? How selfish and stupid. I feel a tremendous amount of guilt for that. It's true that he hid the effects from me very well, almost to perfection, but I should have seen and I should have done something, anything, years ago. All of the signs were there. In bits and pieces he showed them to me, but I didn't complete the puzzle until all hell broke loose. This has revealed what I see as a pretty substantial flaw in my own character that I have a difficult time with and it makes me scared. Do I really have the ability to be strong when I must and to stand with him while he heals?

So many of you have stated that you have intimacy problems with your partner and I suppose I do to, but they are not for lack of sex. My b/f is, on top of everything else and likely because of the s/a, a sexaholic. Our sex life was very active yet as soon as the "new" wore off, he went looking for more "new." He loves me, but he needed "new" physical conquests. For 4 years we have been together, yet I didn't see this. I look back to before I caught him cheating and try to see if there were clues, but can't find them, still. I'm a professional woman with alot of responsibility and I earn a good salary. I got through a bad marriage and divorce and I've raised a daughter on my own for 18 years who I'm now putting through college. Pretty smart, right? Not! Again, am I that stupid?

My own inadequecies frighten me to death. I'm terrified that everything I give my b/f won't be enough. I won't be woman enough for him. These thoughts make me angry - at him - and then at me. Why wasn't I good enough? We're talking and crying and laughing and making love again. But will it be enough in the long term? The "new" is gone from our sexual relationship but while I find comfort in the sameness and revel in the sometimes exciting, I'm terrified that he won't/can't learn that.

Cheating is not an option for him if he wants our relationship to work. I did tell him that as a condition of our getting back together. He not only agreed to it, he says that I am the only one he wants - ever. But just because he doesn't cheat, does that mean I'll be happy? Will just the thought of him wanting to cheat set me off? Can I truly trust him again? We will survive the time necessary to make that happen? If I can't satisfy him then am I really doing him any favors by insisting that he only be with me?

Nothing like this has ever invaded my perfect little world, except the exact same thing, but the didn't the light bulb didn't go on over my head until 3 days ago. I'm adopted and found my birth mother ("M") about 17 years ago. Long story short, she is a nice woman with mental/physical issues up the wazoo. Why? because she was a victim of incest by her father and a brother. She had me at 18 and gave me up for adoption - thank god she was wise enough to see that it was the right thing to do and I'm grateful to her because I had/have a wonderful family. M and I don't communicate often because she does have such severe problems and because I can turn away from it. She lives far away, she isn't my family, except by blood and even though she's nice and we do get along, I don't have to deal.

The fact that her brother tried to find me years ago, before even she and I connected, made me question a great many things about my ancestry and to wonder whether I'm a product of the incestuous relationship that M was forced into. She was shocked when I told her that her brother had searched for me, but I never had the nerve to ask her if she knew why. I've put this little tidbit away for years because I don't need the answer. This whole mess that I now find myself in is forcing me to look back on things that I don't want to look at and THAT makes me angry and frightened too!

My b/f knows about M and her history because I told him, without knowing his. Now, I can't discuss my own fears with him because it could set off a firestorm. I understand that, I accept that, but I'm not at all happy about that. I feel like such a selfish bitch!

There is so much more..........Maybe another post to deal with other stuff. This one has taken it out of me.

Trish
 
Trish,

I don't want to hijack or divert a thread that should be for partners to express their feelings. That's important, and I feel I benefit from that as well. Survivors don't live in a vacuum.

But I just want to jump in here quickly with something that I hope will interest all the partners, family and friends who see this thread. Trish, I am so glad you say all of the above. These are your feelings and expressing them will be a first step towards dealing with them. But let me assure you 100% that these things that make you feel so bad about yourself are NOT your fault. NOT AT ALL. They are the fault of abusers, who, as SAR so rightly says, harmed you by harming the man you love.

Apart from that, Trish, please believe me when I say that hardly anyone is really able to "see the signs" and read them correctly unless they have experience (therapist, social worker, survivor or closely involved with one). From an early age survivors become experts at hiding it all; nothing is more important. My guess is that the vast majority of disclosures meet with shock and astonishment.

As to how you react and help him and cope...well: Let me tell you again that as a survivor I feel most times like I am stumbling all over the place. How can I expect my loved ones to do any better? There's a very sharp learning curve - for everyone involved. That is no one's fault either.

Take care,
Larry
 
Trish

There are two things that strike me from your post.
Stirring up of your own past and trusting the survivor.

Reading the books and articles about CSA, Mike Lews, Laura Davies/Ellen Bass etc etc...I felt a huge amount of fear. I then started to remember abuse from my my own childhood, not sexual but revolting none the less. Over the last weeks I've sought out some help for me, a therapist who I think I'm going to get on with, and tomorrow I'm going to see her for the first time.

But how do I feel about this? My partners life as he was living it had come to a dead end, it was utterly unsustainable and he is quite sure he'd have ended up either dead or in a mental hospital if it hadn't all come out and he started to heal.

But my life; its not that bad actually, good job, lots of friends, i've successfully removed the people from my life who bring crap into it and don't add anything good, I was in love with a gorgeous man who had his faults, some a bit odd but he was OK on the whole, better than OK he was great. What is the incentive for me to dig up all of my inadequacies, some extreamly well hidden and go through that pain to get to the other side? I'm watching someone go through it and my god it looks awful! I've seen is my partners coping mecahnisms collapse and him literally fall apart BUT BUT BUT now he's putting himself back together. And he's changing. I know deep in my heart that I'm going to have to change also.

It suits me to have a man who doesn't demand anything emotionally from me because I find it quite scary to feel needed, I don't cope well with others demands of me. I can give but on my terms please. Is that because my father demanded things of me he had no right to demand of a child. I'm independant and successfull, I'm a liberated woman who can run her own life. But am I really. Maybe the bigest success of my life are my own coping mechanisms?? Who knows but I do know this.

I love that man with all my heart and he's changing. If I'm going to be everything he deserves, if he's going to be able to ask freely for love and attention and affection and maybe even sex!! Then one things clear to me. I'm going to have to change too. Do I really have to do this right now. I'm exhausted. We've got one crisis going on in our home do we honestly need another. My partner says definatly yes. He is able to see and articulate the things about me he wishes could change and one of those is quite blunt.....This leads me on to trust. My partner has many confusions about his life and one of those has been his sexuality but for him he's arriving at this place.... he might have slept with hundreds of men but he is not gay, he doesn't know what he is but he knows he does not want to live with a man.He wants to live with me. I want assurances that he is heterosexual. Why do I want him to be able to label himself like that, AND I DO KNOW THAT LABELS ARE FOR CANS.... I want this because I'm bl**dy scared that if I let go of my self protectiveness and lean on him like a healthy person would be able to he might later say he's gay and then I'll fall down. And he has said to me this; "I'm not gay, and anyone, including you, who doesn't accept this can f*** off" ......So....I've made a policy decision. I'm going to believe him. and I'll stay with him and I'll continue to love him. But if I'm ever going to realy trust him and allow our relationship to really live up to its potential I need some help. and for that reason I'm off tomorrow to spill my guts to that therapist and hope with all my heart that what follows isn't as messy as what I'm watching unfold at home right now.

I must be mad. But madly in love also.

peace and joy.

Tracy
 
Tracy,

You sure opened a pandora's box with this thread, but not in a bad way. When I sat down to write, I was going to join with you 100% on your rage against the abuser, your feelings of isolation, not wanting to further hurt your loved one, etc., etc. What came out surprised even me and all of it really didn't belong here. I'll address it again, at another time.

Thank you and Roadrunner for your supportive and kind words. I know that I'm not really at fault for anything that was done to turn my world upside down any more than my b/f was at fault for being born to a monster, but I sometimes feel at such a loss and like I'm just floundering around with no direction. For the moment, at 6:44p.m., that feeling has passed but what's so odd is that by 7:00 I could be all shook up again.

I suppose it's the choice we make for love. I believe it is the right one for me and for so many of us. ROCK ON!

Trish
 
Trish

I also had no clue what my post would look lke before I wrote it which is odd because previous cautious attempts at posting have taken ages and been carefully scripted.

My post at the top of this page just came out and what I wrote surprised me also. Maybe these are the things I most want to say....if so... great.... and also I honour what you said, every bit of it. If it made sense as it came out it was what you wanted to say and thats got to be good.

This forum has got me wondering how many other women there are out there like us!! and if any of them live near me. I feel like I'd love to sit and have a coffee with yourself and some of the other women and really have a good chat.

I've no desire to set up a network close to me, havn't the time, experience, or the inclination if I'm honest, but when someone says something and you think YES,, thats how I feel exactly, I just havn't been able to articulate it as such...

Well it makes me feel much less isolated and then I feel warm towards that person because it feels like they understand me. Then I think bring on the coffee.

I just loved it when you said youre last bit.. ROCK ON INDEED.

Much love

Tracy
 
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