extension of my Hubby is an S.O.
Hi Guize, ***** CAUTION MAY CONTAIN TRIGGERS***
am a little under the influence of some pain meds. I hope u dont mind that I copied & pasted the last couple of postings in the other thread -- I inserted my comments with ****those and placed them in italics**** sorry if it is confusing.
and THANK YOU for not excluding me or allowing myself to work myself into a position of excluding myself with this very TRiggering topic.
Sammy
quote:
I keep going back to the part about WHY a teen wouldnt at least TRY to access help from SOME adult that was "safe" for info if the topic of sex was not made TABOO at home.
Maybe some of the younger members will add their answers here, as these days everyone seems to be that much more open about sex talk.
But back in the 60's when I got interested in sex, and abused, there was nobody.
The BBC wouldn't even show a drama or film where a couple kissed on the lips in those days.
And my father would turn the TV off at the very thought of anything sexual anyway.
I can remember trying to watch "Top of the Pops" in the late 60's as a 14 - 15yo and they had dancers who wore skimpy outfits, for the time, and he would turn the damn thing off! So there was never any chance of the 'father son chat' there then....
Sex education in a single sex boarding school consisted of learning about friggin frog spawn!
"Do women have spawn as well Mr Edwards ?"
That's when I got to stand in the corner for the rest of the lesson.
I sincerely hope that things are different now, but sometimes things come along that tell me "no". ***Your whole sharing smacks to ME of the ADULTS feeling embarrassment and shame, hence harming the kiddoes***
And offenders will take advantage of that ignorance, how often did survivors hear the words "I'm just teaching you about sex"
***Im sure many far too many heard those words. And I personally forget as I get my own shit mixed in here. What I got to hear was , and I hate hearing this to this day Your Special, & Your Smile is XXX I dont know HOW or WHY I was able to keep that stupid smile pasted on my face even during the worst of it all, and more embarrassing to me to this day. Is that I can and often STILL do it no matter HOW mad, sad etc I feel****
****to this Dave I must add that I was an active Mom and sat on a board for sex ed when my girls were in school. Schools teach so much BASIC stuff now I just cannot accept (maybe this is just MY bullheaded ness) that knowledge is not easily acceptable in this day and age. Yes, there are still the ODD events , remember I shared once of the foster child who ended up PG by her Foster dad and that mound of bullshit that I still cant forgive the ADULTS I do concede we still have a LONG way to go.
Hi Sammy
Hope you're doing okay today and everything went well with #22. In fact I hope you're getting the R&R you need and NOT reading this today.
Dave
It's not really the point of this thread, so if you want to talk about it more send me a PM... but there's a lot more to why teens have babies than makes it into the press. It's not about ignorance and greed. But we are a culture that jumps at any excuse to look the other way when the evidence shows that we're not protecting our kids-- and big bellies on middle schoolers is some damning evidence-- so why not blame the victims and their families?
Kids who have babies are hurt kids first and foremost-- I mean if we can accept that other types of acting out are ways of saying "Hey look, can't you see that I'm in trouble here?"-- what louder way is there to say it than to have your name on someone else's birth certificate. The connection between sexual abuse and involvement in a teen pregnancy is high-- higher for boys than it is for girls.
quote:
I keep going back to the part about WHY a teen wouldnt at least TRY to access help from SOME adiult that was "safe" for info if the topic of sex was not made TABOO a;t home.
Why-- because they don't believe anyone can help them. Because they don't have a lot of hope for their future whether they becpme parents or not. Because they already feel "different" from their peers and think of their childhood as something they'd rather be done with. Because they are angry and don't trust adults, period. Because (no offense to our teens here) most kids don't consider long-term consequences of their behavior in general and they aren't magically more responsible about sex than they are about the rest of their lives. (I think a lot of the stereotype of looking for a handout comes from this-- it's not that those girls don't give thought to how they'll support their kids because they expect it will come from the government-- it's just that they don't think about it much at all because everything is fine for the moment, and to adults that translates as "in it for the money".)
THAT is what "no options" means. It doesn't mean that they don't know how to find Planned Parenthood in the phone book.
****SAR, then WHY when I was in H.S. did I know to go to Planned parenthood? Why was it ME who took my friends when they came to me with questions? WHAT made me different? I was being SA daily, couldnt talk about it (tho did try in some cases), yet could help (?) others? Was it perhaps a way to feel some sense of power and control when inside I felt none?? ****
SAR
What I've been getting at, in my roundabout way, is that the culture ( however society has arrived at that ) creates, through legislation rightly created to protect young people of both sexes a danger for people who engage in sex with these young people.
I'll say right up front that it is WRONG for people to have sex with young people, especially when the age gap is significant enough to also include a situation where it becomes coercive and power is also abused.
But if the young person is sexually active from their own choice, and that's becoming more common, then the older person is at serious risk of being branded a sex offender.
That's right and proper, I agree entirely. The older person has a responsibility to abide by both laws and moral standards. If we don't enforce the laws then anarchy rules.
****Dave, one of my daughs male schoolmates IS branded as a S.O. to my understanding SIMPLY because he impregnated the SAME young girl who had been SA by the FOSTER father. He is NOW 22 yo and because the 2 of them went onto have 2 more babies (she was forced to give up her 1st baby) he NOW has 2 offenses forcing him to legally list for a lifetime. These 2 young ppl were both 16 & 17 at the time. The family that they made together will forever be effected/ affected because of some crazed area & laws. I think someone should be able to UNDO this unfair situation*****
My point is that society is all too ready to pass judgement and brand ALL offenders as wrong and evil. But there's a big grey area that makes no allowances for offences that fall between what I call opportunistic and planned, and I personally don't feel at ease judging every 'offender' in the same manner throughout this range of offences.
Take the case of the female teacher and her student, ( Leternau ? ) they've recently married.
She was rightly sentenced for her offence, but they have consistently proclaimed their love for each other. The cynic in me sees the fact that they've sold their story to a tabloid and reacts badly towards that fact. But should we castigate her ( them ? ) in the same way as we pour hate on a serial offender of very young children?
I think that we should try and understand the crime, make an effort to dig a bit deeper and see how a particular offender arrived at the place they did.
Why ? because we can then begin to understand those individuals that offended against us, that way we can see with a degree of clarity our role in what happened to us. And I think that in 99% of cases we'll see that we weren't to blame.
****I have to say that in my opinion this is IMPERATIVE that we begin to understand and learn about the WHYS not just the HOWS, as this is KEY to PREVENTION. BUT, if an Offender is willing to share their stories, then my own distrust falls in as IS the offender bragging, is the offender Lying? Is it JUST to get attention or special breaks if they are incarcerated at the time of questioning. Then I wonder is it so that they have time out of the cell? Or Extra food, etc?***
Even if we suffered from a one-off opportunistic episode of sex abuse the offender had a responsibility to NOT offend, and there are no excuses in reality. If the offender is drunk then they should have drunk less. But society can't account for a sexually active, and possibly drunk young person.
That's the big grey area for me, and one that I can find some compassion for the older, supposedly more responsible person involved.
guize i cant seem to get my last comment to add in this posting so am going to add a ps.
Thanks, Sammy
am a little under the influence of some pain meds. I hope u dont mind that I copied & pasted the last couple of postings in the other thread -- I inserted my comments with ****those and placed them in italics**** sorry if it is confusing.
and THANK YOU for not excluding me or allowing myself to work myself into a position of excluding myself with this very TRiggering topic.
Sammy
quote:
I keep going back to the part about WHY a teen wouldnt at least TRY to access help from SOME adult that was "safe" for info if the topic of sex was not made TABOO at home.
Maybe some of the younger members will add their answers here, as these days everyone seems to be that much more open about sex talk.
But back in the 60's when I got interested in sex, and abused, there was nobody.
The BBC wouldn't even show a drama or film where a couple kissed on the lips in those days.
And my father would turn the TV off at the very thought of anything sexual anyway.
I can remember trying to watch "Top of the Pops" in the late 60's as a 14 - 15yo and they had dancers who wore skimpy outfits, for the time, and he would turn the damn thing off! So there was never any chance of the 'father son chat' there then....
Sex education in a single sex boarding school consisted of learning about friggin frog spawn!
"Do women have spawn as well Mr Edwards ?"
That's when I got to stand in the corner for the rest of the lesson.
I sincerely hope that things are different now, but sometimes things come along that tell me "no". ***Your whole sharing smacks to ME of the ADULTS feeling embarrassment and shame, hence harming the kiddoes***
And offenders will take advantage of that ignorance, how often did survivors hear the words "I'm just teaching you about sex"
***Im sure many far too many heard those words. And I personally forget as I get my own shit mixed in here. What I got to hear was , and I hate hearing this to this day Your Special, & Your Smile is XXX I dont know HOW or WHY I was able to keep that stupid smile pasted on my face even during the worst of it all, and more embarrassing to me to this day. Is that I can and often STILL do it no matter HOW mad, sad etc I feel****
****to this Dave I must add that I was an active Mom and sat on a board for sex ed when my girls were in school. Schools teach so much BASIC stuff now I just cannot accept (maybe this is just MY bullheaded ness) that knowledge is not easily acceptable in this day and age. Yes, there are still the ODD events , remember I shared once of the foster child who ended up PG by her Foster dad and that mound of bullshit that I still cant forgive the ADULTS I do concede we still have a LONG way to go.
Hi Sammy
Hope you're doing okay today and everything went well with #22. In fact I hope you're getting the R&R you need and NOT reading this today.
Dave
It's not really the point of this thread, so if you want to talk about it more send me a PM... but there's a lot more to why teens have babies than makes it into the press. It's not about ignorance and greed. But we are a culture that jumps at any excuse to look the other way when the evidence shows that we're not protecting our kids-- and big bellies on middle schoolers is some damning evidence-- so why not blame the victims and their families?
Kids who have babies are hurt kids first and foremost-- I mean if we can accept that other types of acting out are ways of saying "Hey look, can't you see that I'm in trouble here?"-- what louder way is there to say it than to have your name on someone else's birth certificate. The connection between sexual abuse and involvement in a teen pregnancy is high-- higher for boys than it is for girls.
quote:
I keep going back to the part about WHY a teen wouldnt at least TRY to access help from SOME adiult that was "safe" for info if the topic of sex was not made TABOO a;t home.
Why-- because they don't believe anyone can help them. Because they don't have a lot of hope for their future whether they becpme parents or not. Because they already feel "different" from their peers and think of their childhood as something they'd rather be done with. Because they are angry and don't trust adults, period. Because (no offense to our teens here) most kids don't consider long-term consequences of their behavior in general and they aren't magically more responsible about sex than they are about the rest of their lives. (I think a lot of the stereotype of looking for a handout comes from this-- it's not that those girls don't give thought to how they'll support their kids because they expect it will come from the government-- it's just that they don't think about it much at all because everything is fine for the moment, and to adults that translates as "in it for the money".)
THAT is what "no options" means. It doesn't mean that they don't know how to find Planned Parenthood in the phone book.
****SAR, then WHY when I was in H.S. did I know to go to Planned parenthood? Why was it ME who took my friends when they came to me with questions? WHAT made me different? I was being SA daily, couldnt talk about it (tho did try in some cases), yet could help (?) others? Was it perhaps a way to feel some sense of power and control when inside I felt none?? ****
SAR
What I've been getting at, in my roundabout way, is that the culture ( however society has arrived at that ) creates, through legislation rightly created to protect young people of both sexes a danger for people who engage in sex with these young people.
I'll say right up front that it is WRONG for people to have sex with young people, especially when the age gap is significant enough to also include a situation where it becomes coercive and power is also abused.
But if the young person is sexually active from their own choice, and that's becoming more common, then the older person is at serious risk of being branded a sex offender.
That's right and proper, I agree entirely. The older person has a responsibility to abide by both laws and moral standards. If we don't enforce the laws then anarchy rules.
****Dave, one of my daughs male schoolmates IS branded as a S.O. to my understanding SIMPLY because he impregnated the SAME young girl who had been SA by the FOSTER father. He is NOW 22 yo and because the 2 of them went onto have 2 more babies (she was forced to give up her 1st baby) he NOW has 2 offenses forcing him to legally list for a lifetime. These 2 young ppl were both 16 & 17 at the time. The family that they made together will forever be effected/ affected because of some crazed area & laws. I think someone should be able to UNDO this unfair situation*****
My point is that society is all too ready to pass judgement and brand ALL offenders as wrong and evil. But there's a big grey area that makes no allowances for offences that fall between what I call opportunistic and planned, and I personally don't feel at ease judging every 'offender' in the same manner throughout this range of offences.
Take the case of the female teacher and her student, ( Leternau ? ) they've recently married.
She was rightly sentenced for her offence, but they have consistently proclaimed their love for each other. The cynic in me sees the fact that they've sold their story to a tabloid and reacts badly towards that fact. But should we castigate her ( them ? ) in the same way as we pour hate on a serial offender of very young children?
I think that we should try and understand the crime, make an effort to dig a bit deeper and see how a particular offender arrived at the place they did.
Why ? because we can then begin to understand those individuals that offended against us, that way we can see with a degree of clarity our role in what happened to us. And I think that in 99% of cases we'll see that we weren't to blame.
****I have to say that in my opinion this is IMPERATIVE that we begin to understand and learn about the WHYS not just the HOWS, as this is KEY to PREVENTION. BUT, if an Offender is willing to share their stories, then my own distrust falls in as IS the offender bragging, is the offender Lying? Is it JUST to get attention or special breaks if they are incarcerated at the time of questioning. Then I wonder is it so that they have time out of the cell? Or Extra food, etc?***
Even if we suffered from a one-off opportunistic episode of sex abuse the offender had a responsibility to NOT offend, and there are no excuses in reality. If the offender is drunk then they should have drunk less. But society can't account for a sexually active, and possibly drunk young person.
That's the big grey area for me, and one that I can find some compassion for the older, supposedly more responsible person involved.
guize i cant seem to get my last comment to add in this posting so am going to add a ps.
Thanks, Sammy
