enmeshment, covert or emotional incest

[sorryson]

today in my couseling session we talked about something we have talked about before but not in depth. My counselor and doctor call it enmeshment and others call it covert or emotional incest.

My life has been trying to say the least. If your read my story there has been dysfunction and estrangement in the family. We talked about this today because my counselor and doctor believe this part of my life is so intertwined with the sexual abuse. I won't rehash my life story but he gave me a small piece of paper with the following

Then there are the families where there are significantly non-ideal and problematic boundaries. The parents who fail to nurture their children, or who nurture them so much that the children feel smothered. The parents who do not manage to keep their private business private; who sexualize their children before they are ready for that information, or who recruit children into adult confidant roles and confide their loneliness or anger towards the other spouse. The parents who divorce ungracefully and continue to fight after their divorce is complete, using their children as messengers. There are many examples of how boundary problems within families can create significant pain for family participants.

I was asked to read this and discuss if it applied to me or my family. I had to say immediately so much of it was true. I had to ask what was meant by sexualize their child. He gave examples, a child 12, 13 or 14 touching the parent inappropriately. I said yes, I remembered my mother and brother. My brother would stroke her hair and she would smile when he was 12 or 13 maybe 14. They would sit touching each other. One time Dad said that was inappropriate and she said you are a jealous fool, they just love me more. There would be talk about people fucking and I hate that word because that is what the abuser did to me. They would talk about Mamas sex life. Mama told us everything. When they were divorcing she had us read what he accused her of doing and what we did to him. She would say see I am the one who loves you. Mama always made sure we were there when she erupted and the tears stopped. I all of a sudden remember grandma would do the same thing and the sisters and brothers would come around and tell her it was grandpas fault. Now I think it was not his fault. I was beginning to see Mama had a purpose to what she was doing.

My counselor said my father was right there was inappropriate behavior. A son at the stage of puberty should not be touching his mother and for her to express it was ok was crossing the boundaries. He also told me the talk was inappropriate as was sharing personal aspects of her life with the children.
Wow now I see it was a way to take us from Dad and destroy. My counselor also talked about her absence. He said somewhere she knew what she did was wrong to leave a sick husband and three children to take care of a mother who had other children nearby. She used her abuse and ability to push blame onto Dad to gain the sympathy of the children. I asked was this intentional? He said people from controlling environments or those suffering depression do not see it as intentional but as a way to live. He said your mother may have suffered from a controlling environment and depression.

He asked how I felt. I said ashamed that my Mama could do this to me and especially my brother. I told him I had begun to accept that Mama did it because I had spent much time talking with my sister who has been through the psychoanalysis of her childhood when she decided to become sober. She told me she cleaned up and it was only when she began psychoanalysis that she found happiness and a desire to live life and not spend her days in bed. She told me she knew what Mama did to us affected her psychologically and emotionally, and it was in the wrong way. It made her hate the person should have loved and was there when Mama left.

I left feeling sad but relieved knowing what I felt was true. Poor Dad had to live through this and none of us were there when he had to face the abuse from his childhood. He did it with strangers and I guess they were a much better family and people than we were. At least he found happiness but I know he felt emptiness from not having us with him. Parents can do horrible things to children. I am learning most times it is learned from their families but how extreme it becomes depends on the person and environment.

 

[tbkkfile]

Sorryson

I can see so much of my childhood in your post regarding the relationship with my Mother and in the piece of paper given to you by your counsellor.

The parents who do not manage to keep their private business private; who sexualize their children before they are ready for that information, or who recruit children into adult confidant roles and confide their loneliness or anger towards the other spouse.

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to deal with this aspect of my life as it formed the very basis of my learning years as a child and I have carried the guilt for all of my life of how I behaved to my Father because of it, sadly he has passed away now so I'll never get that chance to tell him that underneath I loved him.

Take good care of yourself sorryson

 

[Jay1946]

Your counselor's description is right on! I suffered emotional incest on the part of my mother at puberty. It took me forty five years to name the problem.

I read Patricia Love's "Emotional Incest Syndrome". The insights I gathered from reading the book helped me to stop blaming others, and live a more enjoyable life because of a new found ability to forge healthier relationships. At the time, my wife and I were raising our four children and we applied the book's description of a healthy family environment to our home life.

 

[sorryson]

Thank you for sharing with me. I never knew of this type of control until my Dad died and I began to explore my relationship with him and my brothers relationship with Mama. I met with my doctor today. We had a long session, almost two hours. My counselor had spoken to him and he began the session asking my thoughts on what I discussed with the counselor yesterday. I had to pull my thoughts together. I first said, sad, shitty, feeling like I disowned the Dad who was there for me because others convinced me he was bad, betrayed, angry. No positive feelings.

My doctor said these are normal feelings when a child comes to realize their life was unduly influenced by a person they loved and trusted. He spoke of the varying degrees of enmeshment. He said all families have a degree of being dysfunctional. He joked, and said run if they say they are perfect. He came back and asked how much of my family did I see in the words the counselor had me read. I said since I left that session so many memories have come back. I told him I talked to my sister who went through psychoanalysis and uncovered all the memories and realities that she had been manipulated by Mama and her family. He asked was I manipulated, and I had to say yes. He asked in what way. I began to rattle everything I remembered. Mama was always the martyr, crying when she did not get her way, or moving out of their room. Dad was struggling with business and he asked Mama to sit down. She said she would and then I suspect she talked to her family and when the time came to go over their money she would start a fight and say I do not need to sit I know everything. She made sure we heard this and would say you are not controlling me by telling me about the money. It was up to Dad. I realized Mama had a sense of entitlement and her family probably made it worse. I remember hearing how horrible Dads mother was and she was still alive while Mamas mother was dead. I remember hearing how horrible her sex life was with Dad and now I understand, he was abused and how could anyone talk to Mama about what happened as a child. I went on and on with everything I remembered. He asked did I remember these memories over the years. I said no because Mama always reminded me of how wonderful she was and how horrible Dad was to her and us. I told him I did not go to see my Dad at the hospital before he died because she said he did not deserve you. She somehow controlled my memories. My doctor said this part of enmeshment.

He said you Mama had some degree of enmeshment in her life. Her mother who chooses a parent over a husband who suffered a heart attack and her children have a sense of control. He said this was evident because there were multiple caregivers there to take care of my grandma. He said those still there probably had some jealousy your mother escaped and the brothers and sisters wanted everyone back into the spider web. He said if your mother was the only caretaker it would be a different story. He asked if I questioned why she went. I said yes because there were so many there who could have done it and they would not have to leave their spouse and husband. Only Mama left her sick husband and children.

He asked how my brother was doing. I told him and he said it sounds as though he suffered more damage than the other children. He said this is not to take away the pain you and your sister suffered and her alcoholism and my nervous breakdown. He said the children, meaning me and my siblings, have shown the signs of enmeshment. I asked if you could explain the signs of enmeshment. He said hiding from the world, no social activities, sleeping away the days, irregular sleeping hours, anti-social traits, misdirected anger at the wrong person because of the control enmeshment creates, addictions, lack of friends and inability to maintain long term friends and broken relationships. He knew my life story and that of my brother and sister. We talked about each of these items and I could talk to each one of them in either myself or brother or sister. It was so obvious.

My doctor said our situation was complicated by Dads sexual abuse as a child. He talked about what Dad had done. He did not condone the actions but said he truly believed Dad had blacked out and had no memory of what happened. I said how did he know that? He said he read his medical reports and from what I had told him about what Mama, my brother, sister and I did to Dad clearly would serve as triggers to his abuse and push him into an altered state. He was pushed beyond himself. I cried and said I now understand we were rotten children and Mama was rotten as was her family. He reassured me I was not rotten. Look at you today, you are trying to face what happened and you are accepting it as being wrong. A rotten person would continue to deny what happened.

My doctor asked a question. If one of Mamas brothers had suffered these blackouts and acted out how would you mother have reacted. Without hesitation I answered, there must be something wrong with him and we must stand by him because that is not him. He said interesting.

He said families that are close can argue, fight, laugh and make up. But in families that have blind submission and thrive on finding fault in other people other them themselves are not close, they are more controlled to project the perfect family have more underlying issues than those that openly challenge the family members. He said my Mama demonstrated blind submission to her mother, brother and sisters. They had no regard for her family. He said Mamas family expectations were not realistic because they destroyed a family and robbed the children and spouse of the family support they so needed.

I worry about my brother, he was subject to more of Mamas whims, tirades, attacks on Dad, sexual talk and making sure he was involved in their discussions and arguments. She used him to side with her.

We began to conclude the session. He asked, I was alright now I was accepting these memories as real. I said I have been uncovering these for a few months but have been trying to deny Mama and her family could do this to us. I said I know they did the best they knew how to do but I was angry. I said I have the love of a beautiful wife who is the complete opposite of Mama.

He said you deserve her after what I lived as a child. I said I feel robbed of the love of my Dad because of them. It does suck and only now is Mama realizing what she and her family did us. He said most children who suffer or create enmeshment ever admit they were wrong, they are forever brainwashed. Maybe it is a new start.

 

[KMCINVA]

P

I think your last sentence says much, "maybe it is a new start". It is a beginning. It sounds as though everyone is receiving professional support. Your mother is trying and only time will tell how much she truly accepts. I believe your doctor is right, most children and those that inflict this emotional abuse never receive help. They live in denial, shattering their lives and the lives of the person targeted. I still like to believe it is not intentional but rather a learned response with some misguided emotions. I believe love is somehow buried within the fracas but it is somehow lost. Hopefully the loss of the love is temporary and when healing takes place it is restored.

Your father, even though he is not here, would want you to feel love and not to judge your mother so harshly as to push her out of your life. He knew the pain and at some point he saw the beauty in your mother. Unfortunately, it was lost because others did not respect their marriage and the children to understand your mother's first priority was her husband and then her children.

You cannot change the past. We can control the present and shape the future. I am glad to see the progress you are making on all fronts.

Kevin

 

[sorryson]

Thank you for all your support. My doctor also spent time talking about how this type of behavior passes from generation to generation. Some of the children are fortunate to marry someone who is able to steer the family in a different direction. However, many times marriages between people that do not have this same focus to be enmeshed with their birth family over their spouse fail. He said the failure occurs from conflict between the spouses over their importance to the other spouse, exercise of control over one spouse by the parents or siblings and one spouse who wishes for their nuclear family to the center of both parents lives. Those who are fortunate to meet the spouse that can guide and show there is a different way to raise a family end up breaking the cycle of enmeshment.

We spoke of the personality disorders or symptoms that many children express when in an enmeshed relationship. The children can fall on either side of the spectrum from co dependence and need to be responsive to those that are co-dependent with to severe personality disorders. They are unable to make a decision that would disappoint or not meet the approval of those they share this co dependency. He spoke of a hierarchy in the family and who becomes the more dominant and those that become the more responsive in this type of situation. I asked him about Mama. He said her need to please not only her mother but her sisters and brothers put her in the role of the one who responded without consideration for her life or that of your Dad and her children. She was in a controlled relationship. I said she always said Dad was controlling. He said it was her way to deflect where the true control lied. I talked to him how Dad was concerned about finances and money and Mama would always fight in front of him and tell us he was controlling her with money. The doctor asked, did he ever try to talk to her about the situation. I said many times and when it came time to talk about it Mama said she knew everything and did not need to talk about money. I told the doctor I thought Mama talked to her family and they said it is his problem and not Mamas. We believed Mama when she screamed at Dad and we thought he tried to control with money. I said I now know Dad wanted the best for us but Mama felt entitled. I told him I remembered Mama saying if we can afford this for the children then I can have x,y and z. It was about her and why did I not see this as a child. She was like a child and now I think it was to make up for being the one everyone in her family controlled. Take it out on Dad.

The doctor then talked about those children who fall on the other side of the spectrum when in enmeshed relationships. These children require excessive attention, exploit others to get what they want or to eliminate others who interfere in their need to be the center of a parents love, demonstrate arrogant behaviors, lack empathy, believe they are special and are entitled to everything.

He asked, where did I fall on this spectrum? I said as a child I was more co dependent on Mama. I did what she said, I followed her orders and I destroyed Dad. When I married my wife was able to make me see things differently. I guess I saw her family. They could yell and scream at each other and get over it. They shared but put their spouses and children first. They rallied together when their parents were sick. The balanced it out amongst them. None of them including the parents expected any child to leave their husband/wife or children. I began to see what Mama did was wrong.

I told him my sister found her way away from this way of life when she went through her road to recovery from alcoholism and psychoanalysis.

My brother I said sadly fell on the other side. Always fighting for Mamas love, thinking he was special and never had any feelings when he hurt anyone including Dad. He was Mamas champion. He also thought he was entitled to everything. I said he has no children and at least he can pass this behavior to another generation. I escaped because of my wife and my sister by her own doing.

The doctor asked about something we once talked about. He asked, why did I believe Dad after the divorce and all we put him through should have been there to support us financially, help with bills and take care of Mama? I said because Mama told us this was the way and so did her sisters and brothers. Did the sisters and brothers know what happened in the home and what you and your mother did to him? I said I think they knew more and like everything in their family it was not discussed because the perfect family would have been shattered. The doctor told me to let go of any ill feelings toward Dad because he did not support. He said the children were of legal age and your mother should not have expected to be fully taken care of because a degree of fault lied with her. He said if your father continued to support he would have continued to enable the destructive machine that had developed in the home. He needed to heal himself from his childhood abuse and the abusive environment in the home. I told the doctor I cringe when I hear what we did to him as abuse. I never thought it was abuse but have come to accept it was abuse. My sister said she too accepted it as abuse. She was fortunately she was able to say sorry to Dad. He asked does that make me feel sad that I did not ask for his forgiveness. I said yes. He said your father knew we were only children and learned this behavior from adults who encouraged it. He said most bullies in schools have parents who are bullies.

After all of this I say to anyone who reads my post, please if you see this type of behavior in your family or any other family please encourage them to get help. The pain, the loss of love, the loss of being in a parents life, the emotional damage, the manipulation and control and a child(ren) whose parent is taken from them because of the control of his/her own parent and siblings impacts a child forever. I never thought what grandma and Mama brothers and sisters did to take Mama away from us, damaged us in so many ways. The doctor said it is more common than anyone expects because parents pass this type of parenting along to their children.

The last thing I said is poor Dad who married into this family. The doctor said he found happiness and that is what I should remember.

 

[sorryson]

I am haunted by the doctors last words to remember Dad found happiness. I cry thinking he found happiness and I was a part of this happiness. I should have been. It was my fault and not his. He was a good Dad until Mama convinced us he was a bad Dad. I am glad he found happiness but I should have been there with him.

Please do not let anyone else have to live with guilt. If you are estranged from anyone you loved please try to forgive each other. I do not want to see anyone else hurting like me. We never know when someone will be taken and once that happens we can never tell them how we truly feel.