Don't Know what to do. should I try to for give or forget my friend? Triggers likely

Don't Know what to do. should I try to for give or forget my friend? Triggers likely
lostcowboy

lostcowboy

Registrant
I thought I needed to repost this, as I am in need of advice.

Hi Blacken, forgiveness that has been on my mind off and on for the last three years. Mind you this is not something that happen to me, but one of my best friends. Let me give some background. Between first grade and high school I moved at least 14 times, For high school I stayed at my dad's house. In high school I had three close friends, Ricky, Jimmy, and Harley, I lost track of the first two through the years. Both me and Harley went into the navy, me to subs and Harley to flattops, we met up once in shore duty for a month, we had some good times. The next time I saw Harley was at my father's funeral. We talked, turned out even though he had made chief he had got out of the navy. A student had accused him of messing with him. He said he didn't do it, but he had had enough of the navy and resigned. He was my friend I believed him. When I lost my house I came back to Texas. I live in Krum which is right outside Denton where my friend lives, we crossed paths at the Albertsons grocery store, we started to renew our friendship. I got up the courage to tell him that I had been raped as a kid.
About two weeks later, I decided to lookup sex offenders of Denton just to see how many. I was shocked to find my friends picture on the page. This is my friend's name, HARLEY ARVID DOWNEY. You can see him about half way down the page. https://www.cityofdenton.com/pages/policerso76201.cfm
About a week later I came across him at Albertsons again, I went up to him, I was very nervous, we did not say much, he became nervous, he had to go. That was three years ago I have not seen or heard from my friend sense. I would like to find out more about the case, but do not know how. I don't know what to do.
 
Hey lostcowboy,


*****Trigger for talk of God*****


You might start with your county records office, or do a google search with his name, etc. Public court records like that should be freely accessible from the web. How much detail is hard to tell, because of state laws, etc.

Forgive him? yeah. Forget? Never, I hope. Trust him again? Only if you think he has displayed true repentance, and is willing to work through what he has done, and even then, it wouldn't be the same as before.

I believe the forgiveness issue gets confused with the idea that we should some how trust them again, or we forgive unconditionally, like love. Forgiveness has conditions, and trust is EARNED, not a gift.

I've forgiven my abuser, but God help him if he tries to establish a relationship with me again! Some would say that reaction proves I hadn't forgiven him, but I say I have, because he is still living, if you catch my meaning!

I no longer hold him to MY standard of accountability, but have turned it over to GOD's standard. I'll let Him mete out the vengence, as appropiate for those kinds of people. And I'll pray that he (they) will come to their senses, and seek that forgiveness, and repent of their evil behavior. But I can only do my part, nothing more. They have to decide if they want to be forgiven.

My two nickels worth.
 
Hey cowboy,

I'm glad you came back and shared this again. I think I missed it the first time.

That's a good habit for me to imitate! If at first I don't get what I need, I hope I'll do like you and come back and ask again!

Hope you don't mind that I left the 'lost' off your name. Guess it's just my hope for you, that you get to where you don't feel lost anymore.

Anyway, I really try to avoid giving advice--I don't like it much when it's given to me for one thing.

Plus, my experience has been that when I have been faced with a difficut and emotionally charged situation like the one you are facing, what I really crave is just plain old listening and simple support.

So buddy, I'm listening and you have my support. I'm sure that with some thoughtful reflection you'll arrive at the decision that is right for you.

Two bits of experience from me. One, if you've got a medical problem, it's best to consult a professional, i.e. a medical doctor.

When faced with emotional or psychological problems, it's best for me to consult a professional also. That's why a therapist is so highly recommended for survivors of sexual abuse.

The effects of sexual abuse cut across all areas of our lives and create such complex dynamics that most experts realize that only with a trained counsellor can progress be made.

The second thing is this. Whatever you decide, always make sure that it is in YOUR best interest. Then double check that with someone you trust, like your therapist.

Make sure that your decisions are motivated by healthy desires to get better and that you will be able to take extra good care of yourself while doing it. You also get to reserve the right to change your mind.

Gee, for a guy who don't give advice, I sure spout off a lot don't I?

You do have my support and we are all here to listen.

Take good care,

Regards,
 
Hi guys, thinks for coming back at me.

Estuardo, no I do not plan to forget and trust will be very long coming if at all. What I am concerned about is that he is in basically in Isolation. One of the things he had told me was that he had got involved with drugs, and got in trouble with the law, and had lost all his friends in 1995, and now I know why. Most of my concern is once he gets off probation will he do it again. Has he gotten any help, did the judge make him go to treatment. Is there such a thing as treatment for perverts and does it work. I hear it does not work in most cases. I have a gut feeling that keeping them shut up inside their head is the worst thing we can do as a society.
Think about it, was not one of the best thing that happen to you finding this web site? I know it was for me! Just in the few days I have been here it has done so much good for me. I feel that each time I post about something that happened to me, I am getting rid of another TON of the burden that I have carried around all my life. They say that 90% of the perverts were Sexually Abused them selves. That tells me that keeping silent about it is the worst thing we can do. I think that keeping silent allows the bad feeling and thoughts to grow and to get distorted.
 
Hi Danny, Thanks for the support. Yes I was worried about reposting. I felt that ether it had been overlooked due to it being the 17th post, or it had offended people so bad that they would not reply to it. But it was important to me so I took the risk of reposting it.
About my handle Lostcowboy, When I was driving a truck I needed a CB handle. I was getting lost all the time, and I was from Texas. So it came to me Lostcowboy. I had been using it for about a year, with everyone asking me how I had picked such a odd handle, when I remembered the old tee shirt I had bought in Coco Beach FL. when I was on a sub. The tee shirt had a picture of a cowboy on a horse with a surfboard under his arm. The writing said can you tell me the way to Coco Beach. Of course there have been times when I have felt lost, sometimes for long periods, but I have not felt lost since finding this web site.
 
Lostcowboy,

I agree, this place has helped me with alot of my burden, and it surely will help your friend, but as I have seen with most of these guys is they don't want to make that adjustment. In their minds, for the majority of them, they see what they have done as HELPING their victim. They have diluted their minds to the point, that they see society as the problem, and we 'just don't understand them'.

I think it is laudable that anybody would have a heart to help these guys, but we can only do so much. And is it in our best interest to pursue this, when we need so much healing ourselves?

If you feel compelled, just tell him about this site, maybe he'll respond to that, but that's the best anybody can do. If the judge did require therapy as part of his probation, I doubt there is any kind of follow-up adequate to helping him out.

(If you're a Christian, maybe all that can be done is prayer.)
 
Hi Estuardo I had not thought of telling him about the site here. I was under the impression that he would not be made welcome here.

Maybe one of the moderators can step in here and give a opinion on that.

laudable, I had to look the word up.
Main Entry: laudable
Pronunciation: 'lo-d&-b&l
Function: adjective
: worthy of praise : COMMENDABLE
(I think it is laudable that anybody would have a heart to help these guys, but we can only do so much. And is it in our best interest to pursue this, when we need so much healing ourselves?

If you feel compelled, just tell him about this site, maybe he'll respond to that, but that's the best anybody can do.)
You may be exactly right! This may be the best way.
I'll wait for what the moderators think.
 
From time to time I do a search of my last name to see what family members are up to. A bunch of them write stuff that is posted, technical papers and that sort of thing, and (believe it or not) I enjoy reading them.

Once, perhaps a year ago, a cousin's name came up that had not before and, like your friend, it was on an offenders page.

It was shocking, of course. There are, naturally, feelings of betrayal and disappointment, even fear. My family had talked about him being in prison for a while but they said it was a drug offense.

Like you, no details of the case were available even though I contacted the sheriff's department there, the county attorney, and a victim's advocacy organization.

It hardly matters though. It's possible, I suppose, that they were wrongly accused and wrongly convicted but I doubt it. As it is, what they did is as horrible as any CSA that happened to us.

It is natural to shun him, to stay away from him. Though you remember the friendship as something good, it is not anymore and is forever changed.
 
'Cowboy
you have a difficult situation, it's hard to imagine someone you were close to being a sex offender. And it's understandable that you have some desire to help, even after a few years apart.

In your shoes I would satisfy my curiosity and find out what he'd done, maybe court records or even local newspaper archives - sometimes the web sites have a search facility that will bring up old stories.

As I've moved through my healing I've found that I have also grown apart from some of my old friends, we haven't fallen out or anything dramatic like that, it's just that I've changed and they haven't.
Maybe if you finf the truth out about your old friend you'll find the same thing happeneing. It might be the case that you now have more reasons not to be friends than be friends?

I'll PM you as well.

Dave
 
Thanks guys! I will try to find out more about the crime.
Thinks for the PM Dave!
 
I thought I would bring this up to date. After reading Rangers story today. I decided to make contact again with my old high school friend, I have been thinking on this for a long time. I called his house and talked to his mother first, and then talked to him for a short time by cell phone. He goes to court mandated group counseling, and also goes to the VA for counseling. As time goes on, I will update this.
 
Cowboy, (I sort of agree w/ DWF about the name, hope it doesn't offend.)

I am glad that you've reached a decision that you seem to be at peace with. And I'm also glad that my story can help.

- Triggers, talking about perps -

As far as the debate about whether or not to contact someone... well... I can see both sides of the issue. I think everyone has given you REALLY good advice. Particularly "Forgiveness is free, trust is EARNED" or, if you're choosing to have contact who you know has commited CSA, then RE-Earned.

The #1 thing I want to say is to please be sure you're safe and other people are safe. Mike Lew's book has some excellent advice about confronting and forgiving, and that can be true even of people who haven't forgiven you.

I think it's fair to say that accountability is loving. You have every right to make sure that your old friend acts properly and decently. You also have every right to speak up when or if anyone says anything that hurts you or makes you uncomfortable.

I've been very fortunate to have many people forgive and support me, and one of the most loving things they do is that they're constantly clear on "This was very wrong, and it can never happen again."

That's the cautious side. The flip side is that I can't tell you how much it can mean to someone who is isolated to have someone reach out to them. Two men stuck right by my side through my time in jail and in court, and they saved my life and my sanity by doing so. I'll always love them for that.

And sometimes, when I start feeling that worthless, broken down, helpless feeling I see in myself and in a lot of posts here, helping someone else can feel very good. Just please remember to STAY SAFE. Someone who has done something once will forever be capable of doing it again. That includes me and that includes your friend. You should never feel bad for withholding any information or contact to preserve your own boundaries. If anything, maintaining healthy boundaries can only help you and your friend.

Um, the only other thing I can think to say is to try and reply briefly about "can perps change"? I didn't think so before. I thought I was doomed. But it turns out that my Probation Officer is one cool customer, and she's helped me to learn how very much hope there can be. In the state I live in, sex offenders have the second lowest re-arrest rates out of all felons of any type. Those of us who make it through treatment have about half of the rates as the people who don't. I'm a little nervous about posting a lot of statistics here, though I'm willing to do the research if anyone is interested.

Also, treatment is hard, if it's any good. For confidentiality issues I can't say what I have seen and heard in it, but my PO has told my parents that she's had a lot of guys say they'd rather go to prison than endure the hard work to change. I read a doctoral thesis of a woman who did research with offenders in MN, and they describe it like tearing apart and rebuilding a house from scratch, the house being the thought and behavior patterns that allow us to hurt other people.

I'm still new to this. So, please forgive me if I say too much or too little. I hope some of it helps.
 
Hi Ranger, yes I will be safe and slow in renewing contact. On the phone, we talked about meeting later this week for coffee. He also admitted that he was gay. So I have two things to be nervous about.
 
Dear Cowboy:
I too need to add my words of caution. Yes, it's true that people can change. And I'll give some food for thought on the other side of the coin: HE has to be careful if he is truly interested in turning HIS life around. Meeting with you may prove to be a healing thing, or it could also become a temptation for him again.
Of course, you have to make the ultimate decision to meet with him. However, it may dredge up a lot of old feelings in you and bring about some unpleasant memories which you may need to be prepared for.
I guess it's dependent on the individual person. Frankly, (how appropriate as my uncle/abuser's name was Frank), I have NO interest in meeting or helping any of those people who abused me. My way of forgiveness is to try and get myself healthy.
IMHO, I believe that we who were SA tend to want to help others in need - that's why so many of us go into helping careers and that's a wonderful quality. Just don't get sucked into his illness in wanting to help. Just like Lloydy said, relationships change and sometimes it is necessary to let go.
Your former friend has his own psychological work to do and has to develop his own support system.
RangerJ19, I hope that I haven't been disrespectful.... I just find it 1,000x more difficult to trust someone who has broken it, especially when it has affected me so deeply.

Sophiesdad
 
Sophiesdad,

No worries about any disrespect. I don't think there are any hard and fast rules. I can only point to Mike Lew's guidelines in "Victim's no Longer" as a great way to review.

-Sigh, it seems that TRIGGERS is going to be a disclaimer on everything I write so far. Sorry!-

You're also totally correct that the offender in question has to be responsible for his own work. If someone is in therapy and staying in therapy, that is HARD WORK. I can't say much more than that I know many former prisoners who would rather die than go to prison again. But I know many offenders who would rather go to prison that endure treatment any more. There is a great deal of emotional pain and hard work involved. (That's good and proper. However hard it has to be, whatever has to be changed, that's fine. We're the ones who hurt others, and we're the ones who have to do the work to learn how to be safe.)

And everyone, survivor or not, has the perfect right to choose who they will and will not be friends with.

Cowboy, I think that if you know in your heart that you are perfectly free to walk away. And you know in your heart that you're equally free to reach out, then you will make the decision that is right for you.

On my part, my victim is still a minor. But his father and oldest brother have forgiven me. They came to court and actually spoke for both the defense and the prosecution, since I was already pleading guilty. It's very strange, but they're my two best friends, and the people who stood beside me when all of the families and friends I didn't hurt walked away.

So I will risk repeating myself. You're perfectly fine and responsible making either choice, or changing your mind once you've tried either choice. It's not written in stone, and if something feels uncomfortable, then feel free to walk away.

But I think you're doing a great job being responsible and thinking hard through this! I trust that you'll make the decision that is right for you!
 
Ranger:
I agree with your last statement to Cowboy - it takes a lot of courage and maturity to be able to look at a situation with open eyes and come to an "educated" decision as to what to do. I guess that's a goal that most people would like to reach - unfortunately, some of us (AKA me) do our favorite exercise of "jumping to conclusions"
Cowboy, I hope you will let us know how it ended up.

Sophiesdad
 
Hi guy's, I met with my friend today, we talked for about two hours. Covered many subjects in rapid fire mode, not going into any one subject deeply. One thing is he does not know of any CSA happening to him. But when I asked him if he had parts of his childhood that he could not remember, he started talking about blackouts due to alcohol. The earliest was when he was ten years old, one of his older brothers had him drink a six-pack of beer. Makes me wonder, what brother gives a kid that much beer. My friend is the youngest of ten kids. He did say he had a uncle who is in prison for molesting his own kids. Well that's it for now.
 
Thanks for keeping us up to date. You probably know that most of us who were SA as children don't go on to repeat the abuse, but there are a few who do for whatever reason.
I agree that a brother who gives a young boy a 6-pack of beer has to have an alternate plan in mind. The black out could have been a combination of alcohol and his mind closing out something very painful.
the important thing was: how did you feel in meeting him? Has it proved to be a positive thing in your own healing? I don't remember if you said this before.... did he apologize for what he did?
Please continue to keep us updated.

Sophiesdad
 
Triggers!

Hi all, a update, I saw my friend again a week ago. Again we went out and had coffee and talked. I asked for more details about what went on between him and the boy. He said he groomed the boy from 10 to 13 years old. There were several times (description of sex acts. )

We also talked about the navy and life on board a aircraft carrier.

( the very short descriptions, not graphic, were edited as they might be very triggering in this context, the trigger warning was already there. Lloydy )
 
Hi guy's, just a update, I saw my friend again recently. His Mother has passed away, so I went to see him on that, also he is the only one I can talk to in RL, about this SA married couple that I got involved with. Just as soon as I get my head straight on it, I'll post about that.

My friend is off probation now, he was on for 10 years, so he no longer is required to go to the police sponsored group therapy. But he is still going to the VA counselor twice a month. As far as I can see my friend is doing fine. The only thing I could wish for him is that he had a love companion in his life.

Take care,
Clifford
 
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