Discussion Board Boundaries
Discussion Board Boundaries
- Thread starterkolisha54
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unknownsoldier
Registrant
A good thing about having a male only space is that it lets us model to each other a different masculinity than many of us saw growing up. Many of us were also wounded by men, and here we learn how men show each other compassion, support and caring. So for me its not so much about not wantng the women here as just wanting the men, if I can make that fine distiction clear. I know too much has been posted on this already, but I hadn't seen anyone say this point.
This whole discussion made me think about in what way this place is valuable. Since being open with other men here, it makes it easier for me to take that out into the world. I used to be really uneasy around men in general, and its been better lately, since I knkow that inside other men rally aren't that different than me.
thanks,
Jim
This whole discussion made me think about in what way this place is valuable. Since being open with other men here, it makes it easier for me to take that out into the world. I used to be really uneasy around men in general, and its been better lately, since I knkow that inside other men rally aren't that different than me.
thanks,
Jim
Em,
You came here about three weeks ago, calling yourself by the name of one of HIS stuffed animals.
You claimed to be in great fear and confusion, begging for help to understand what this awful person had done to you. A man you would never have contact with again, as you couldn't bear the pain - the most horrible you had ever been through.
Funny that today, you are here to support "The Male Survivor".
You told of how you joined other boards, and sought advice there. You even carried out the manipulative suggestions you received regarding staying in contact, using a go-between, etc.
Doesn't seem much like the actions of a woman who "Knows Herself" and "has a bit of Confidence", someone who said three weeks ago that she felt like a "hunted animal".
In short, your stories, your claims, are inconsistent. This has all been about YOU and what you want from the very beginning.
You entered the chat forum on a Male Survivors site. Did you ask first if women were welcomed there? If perhaps there was a designated time for women? Or did you just go in, assuming you are entitled and would be welcomed?
Having done so, and then learned that it created a problem for a Male Survivor, what then did you do to "Support the Male Survivor"?
You needn't answer. It is obvious in your posts. You became condescending and then launched a series or classic passive-agressive nonsense, ending with this shining example:
The point is you didn't address the issue of being in the chat room and the harm it caused Leosha's young friend. All you needed to say was something to the effect that "I am sorry and regret it if my presence caused any harm". Simple, isn't it?
Apparently, your definition of knowing yourself and having confidence means never having to say you're sorry, never admitting you could have done something wrong or harmful, even inadvertently. More like what the rest of us would call arrogance and an exagerated sense of entitlement.
Instead, you offered your condescending remarks on how we will change the world. Then you began your attacks -
Yes, the drama continues, and you are the one fostering it.
Miss, you really are in the wrong place. Your issues are not our issues. You mentioned your abandonment issues in an earlier post. Andrew and Bill have clearly identified your Control issues.
You are not here to support Male Survivors, or a particular male survivor. You need another place, or a therapist to help you deal with whatever your concerns and issues are.
Please don't use this place to wage a war to be heard, understood, and accepted. There is little chance of that now.
All you had to do was say you were sorry.
You came here about three weeks ago, calling yourself by the name of one of HIS stuffed animals.
You claimed to be in great fear and confusion, begging for help to understand what this awful person had done to you. A man you would never have contact with again, as you couldn't bear the pain - the most horrible you had ever been through.
Funny that today, you are here to support "The Male Survivor".
You told of how you joined other boards, and sought advice there. You even carried out the manipulative suggestions you received regarding staying in contact, using a go-between, etc.
Doesn't seem much like the actions of a woman who "Knows Herself" and "has a bit of Confidence", someone who said three weeks ago that she felt like a "hunted animal".
In short, your stories, your claims, are inconsistent. This has all been about YOU and what you want from the very beginning.
You entered the chat forum on a Male Survivors site. Did you ask first if women were welcomed there? If perhaps there was a designated time for women? Or did you just go in, assuming you are entitled and would be welcomed?
Having done so, and then learned that it created a problem for a Male Survivor, what then did you do to "Support the Male Survivor"?
You needn't answer. It is obvious in your posts. You became condescending and then launched a series or classic passive-agressive nonsense, ending with this shining example:
Sure, you didn't call anyone a perpetrator. You just happened to write that immediately after Leosha's second post.
The point is you didn't address the issue of being in the chat room and the harm it caused Leosha's young friend. All you needed to say was something to the effect that "I am sorry and regret it if my presence caused any harm". Simple, isn't it?
Apparently, your definition of knowing yourself and having confidence means never having to say you're sorry, never admitting you could have done something wrong or harmful, even inadvertently. More like what the rest of us would call arrogance and an exagerated sense of entitlement.
Instead, you offered your condescending remarks on how we will change the world. Then you began your attacks -
Ceratinly this is true, but it goes with the territory. If you can't see that or understand it, and if you feel compelled to use that statement as a defense of your actions, then you are in the wrong place.
These are beautiful thoughts, but they are rejected and irritating because you are using them to deflect blame for the upset you caused back upon the people who are upset. You use this passage to point out the deficiencies of those who may not feel safe. You will not acknowledge or accept that you were the source of the upset.
Yes, the drama continues, and you are the one fostering it.
So you are the lightening rod for hatred towards women. My now, aren't you important? And what a burden that must be for you.
Miss, you really are in the wrong place. Your issues are not our issues. You mentioned your abandonment issues in an earlier post. Andrew and Bill have clearly identified your Control issues.
You are not here to support Male Survivors, or a particular male survivor. You need another place, or a therapist to help you deal with whatever your concerns and issues are.
Please don't use this place to wage a war to be heard, understood, and accepted. There is little chance of that now.
All you had to do was say you were sorry.
Hello all,
I am a moderator in the chat room and was the moderator when (emiwe) was present and the fracas erupted. I am saddened by the resulting posts I have read. As you can see, I do not write here often. Tonight i could not sleep without saying something.
emiwe, it pains me that through all of this you have not shown even a hint of remorse or insight into the pain you caused as a result of your actions. As a member of a community, virtual or otherwise, we must conduct ourselves with an awareness of each other to so that we can connect and participate and to feel ultimately fulfilled as humans. Are you feeling fullfiled here? From my perspective you have been insensitive, controlling, disrespectful, among other things, and this is counterproductive to your stated reason for coming, if that is in fact true.
In the chat room, you were indeed entitled and demanding. I was surpised to see your use of the word entitled, though sadly you use it with pride. You do have a lot of power..you could have made a huge difference and had your needs met, too. Instead you abused us, you hurt us, you are the perpetrator. It is very sad that you have not learned ...yet.
Even sadder is the loss of Andrei and Leosha to our community here. Guys, if you read this please consider coming back. emiwe, these gentle and young men are just coming to grips with their abuse histories. As any survivor will attest, this is a very tough and fragile time. And you treaded heavily on them....and that from a confident (your word) woman?
emiwe, I have to beleive that your actions and way of being as clearly and consistently demonstrated here also shows up in other parts of your life and therefore in your relationship with Mark. I ask you to look inside yourself deeply and honestly. Reflect. Re-examine. Therein lies the answers to the questions you were seeking. I hope my words here help.
For the future emiwe, should our paths cross in chat, you will be on your very best behavior, with all comfortable. Anything less and I will kick you out, just as I am empowered to do with any other chat participant, male or female. The men in chat will be safe and protected. I have been entrusted with that responsibility.
emiwe, are you up to the challenge? Where there is gain, there is pain.
Towards all our growth,
Steve
( I have just changed the real name to 'emiwe'. Lloydy )
I am a moderator in the chat room and was the moderator when (emiwe) was present and the fracas erupted. I am saddened by the resulting posts I have read. As you can see, I do not write here often. Tonight i could not sleep without saying something.
emiwe, it pains me that through all of this you have not shown even a hint of remorse or insight into the pain you caused as a result of your actions. As a member of a community, virtual or otherwise, we must conduct ourselves with an awareness of each other to so that we can connect and participate and to feel ultimately fulfilled as humans. Are you feeling fullfiled here? From my perspective you have been insensitive, controlling, disrespectful, among other things, and this is counterproductive to your stated reason for coming, if that is in fact true.
In the chat room, you were indeed entitled and demanding. I was surpised to see your use of the word entitled, though sadly you use it with pride. You do have a lot of power..you could have made a huge difference and had your needs met, too. Instead you abused us, you hurt us, you are the perpetrator. It is very sad that you have not learned ...yet.
Even sadder is the loss of Andrei and Leosha to our community here. Guys, if you read this please consider coming back. emiwe, these gentle and young men are just coming to grips with their abuse histories. As any survivor will attest, this is a very tough and fragile time. And you treaded heavily on them....and that from a confident (your word) woman?
emiwe, I have to beleive that your actions and way of being as clearly and consistently demonstrated here also shows up in other parts of your life and therefore in your relationship with Mark. I ask you to look inside yourself deeply and honestly. Reflect. Re-examine. Therein lies the answers to the questions you were seeking. I hope my words here help.
For the future emiwe, should our paths cross in chat, you will be on your very best behavior, with all comfortable. Anything less and I will kick you out, just as I am empowered to do with any other chat participant, male or female. The men in chat will be safe and protected. I have been entrusted with that responsibility.
emiwe, are you up to the challenge? Where there is gain, there is pain.
Towards all our growth,
Steve
( I have just changed the real name to 'emiwe'. Lloydy )
Hi to everyone - Something that our wonderful SAR said really makes sense: the Family & Friends forum is about *relationships*... let's bear that in mind, too, in our efforts to support our loved ones. We do not act in a self-centered vaccuum. Our actions DO have an impact on those around us - let's be more careful with eachother.
theo
Registrant
i feel very humbled and i stand in awe of the fellowship i witness here in this thread. this was the entire reason that i first came here and stayed. my choice to leave this forum was not based on the deplorable incident of the chatroom because i had decide to leave prior to knowing about it, but upon hearing of it and reading that damnable statement my decision was only reinforced. as with any group or family, there are bad days and good days...the last few hours have been really good. i decided to leave because i no longer felt safe in this place with all the hostility that seemed to be brewing under the surface only to explode in rants like what happened here and in other threads. i felt that we were a community once, now it seems as though we found our community again. i still need to stay away for awhile but i will check my pm from time to time. all iwanted to say here is that i am proud of each of you for standing together in this. lynn, i smiled when i read your posts here. don, i echo andrew in admiring your eloquence. kolisha, you started this with the best of intentions, and your coming back to this when it spiraled out of control is a statement towards your integrity and compassion. i think for a time we may have forgotten that this forum is a community...why must it always take a tragedy to cause the community to remember it is one? to everyone here, please, journey well.
crisispoint
Registrant
My brothers and sisters,
I am not in the best mental space right now, but I've gotten some pretty troubling PM's from people who mean the world to me and there are people threatening to leave the board because it isn't safe for them anymore. This is wrong. Wrong for the survivors, wrong for partners, wrong for families, wrong, wrong wrong!
Since when has a discussion of bounderies turned into a raging torrent of flame? Why is there a need to get personal when we are expressing our opinions, our feelings, our perceptions? This is wrong and unworthy of everyone here. We are BETTER than this, people!
If this is where we're heading, a whole lot of people worked their @$$e$ off saving this organization for NOTHING! I have no desire to be a part of something that has turned so hostile, even though it has saved my life. Do you want to turn people away, survivors and their support people, simply because we cannot separate our emotions from our personhood? I surely don't think so.
Perhaps a new code-of-conduct is needed so that people can regain their trust and confidence here. I'd hate to think it has come to that, because we are all caring, feeling, people. But we are human (although sometimes I have doubts in myself!) and can make mistakes, so one may be necessary.
A suggestion for one:
A: All people who come to this site are caring, feeling individuals and should be treated as such.
B: Regarding sensitive issues - people need to be aware that some who come here are in a fragile mental state. What sounds like constructive feedback to you may not come across that way to the people you address. Please be respectful when responding.
C: In general, treat others as you want to be treated. Blunt commentary designed to hurt is NOT what you come here for. Please refrain from such behavior.
D: We are all creatures who have been through fires no one understands. No one's pain is greater than others. Please remember that.
E: Don't judge others because you don't like what they have to say. Everyone's experiences are different, and this has shaped their opinions. They are no more right or wrong than you are.
D: We are better than those who have hurt us. Act that way.
Maybe I'm coming off as what I hate here, but please, there have been good, helpful people who've said they will leave this site because they no longer feel safe or secure. If this is what "Malesurvivor" has become, I want no part of it either.
We are heroes, all of us. Be heroes.
Peace.
Scot
I am not in the best mental space right now, but I've gotten some pretty troubling PM's from people who mean the world to me and there are people threatening to leave the board because it isn't safe for them anymore. This is wrong. Wrong for the survivors, wrong for partners, wrong for families, wrong, wrong wrong!
Since when has a discussion of bounderies turned into a raging torrent of flame? Why is there a need to get personal when we are expressing our opinions, our feelings, our perceptions? This is wrong and unworthy of everyone here. We are BETTER than this, people!
If this is where we're heading, a whole lot of people worked their @$$e$ off saving this organization for NOTHING! I have no desire to be a part of something that has turned so hostile, even though it has saved my life. Do you want to turn people away, survivors and their support people, simply because we cannot separate our emotions from our personhood? I surely don't think so.
Perhaps a new code-of-conduct is needed so that people can regain their trust and confidence here. I'd hate to think it has come to that, because we are all caring, feeling, people. But we are human (although sometimes I have doubts in myself!) and can make mistakes, so one may be necessary.
A suggestion for one:
A: All people who come to this site are caring, feeling individuals and should be treated as such.
B: Regarding sensitive issues - people need to be aware that some who come here are in a fragile mental state. What sounds like constructive feedback to you may not come across that way to the people you address. Please be respectful when responding.
C: In general, treat others as you want to be treated. Blunt commentary designed to hurt is NOT what you come here for. Please refrain from such behavior.
D: We are all creatures who have been through fires no one understands. No one's pain is greater than others. Please remember that.
E: Don't judge others because you don't like what they have to say. Everyone's experiences are different, and this has shaped their opinions. They are no more right or wrong than you are.
D: We are better than those who have hurt us. Act that way.
Maybe I'm coming off as what I hate here, but please, there have been good, helpful people who've said they will leave this site because they no longer feel safe or secure. If this is what "Malesurvivor" has become, I want no part of it either.
We are heroes, all of us. Be heroes.
Peace.
Scot
On this topic:
>>>>I would suggest that you send a PM to someone to see if they're willing to correspond with you about a topic, or start a thread out here that relates to how actions of a survivor in your life affect you.
Personally this is how I handle this issue. While I *do* read some of the male-survivor only posts I do send a PM initially to that person and ask them if it is ok to talk to them on a particular topic based on thier post on the survivors-only thread.
We as partners have to keep in mind that some of these guys were abused by women - their moms, or caretakers, sisters, etc.. and some of them while not directly abused by their moms had moms or other female caregivers that failed to protect them from their abusers.. and that is one of the many issues that are facing male surviors of SA.
WE have to keep in mind that these survivors NEED a safe space to talk about these things "among the guys".. to talk about issues that are specific to being a man who is recovering from sexual abuse. As women we can try and help but there are just some things that we'll never understand about their point of view in all of this!!!!!!
For my partner the whole recovery from abuse issue needs to take place in a safe space.. if I continually, even with good intentions, intrude into that space when he is most vulnerable (this was a bigger issue a few years ago than it is now) it can prolong things and in the past is has caused problems - I have been caught in the real-life "flames" of his anger - the kinds of verbal haranguing that you have seen on this board has happened to me in REAL LIFE. Not that I am accepting that type of behaviour (because it is unacceptable) but we cannot forget these are guys whose boundaries were violated, they were not listened to, not respected, and so for many of them MANY things remind them of that feeling of being not listened to/respected. I try to keep that in mind and not post on the male-survivor-only thread at all.
Anyhow that's my view on things and so far I have not stepped on any toes. Some guys have welcomed my PMs and others have not.
PAS
>>>>I would suggest that you send a PM to someone to see if they're willing to correspond with you about a topic, or start a thread out here that relates to how actions of a survivor in your life affect you.
Personally this is how I handle this issue. While I *do* read some of the male-survivor only posts I do send a PM initially to that person and ask them if it is ok to talk to them on a particular topic based on thier post on the survivors-only thread.
We as partners have to keep in mind that some of these guys were abused by women - their moms, or caretakers, sisters, etc.. and some of them while not directly abused by their moms had moms or other female caregivers that failed to protect them from their abusers.. and that is one of the many issues that are facing male surviors of SA.
WE have to keep in mind that these survivors NEED a safe space to talk about these things "among the guys".. to talk about issues that are specific to being a man who is recovering from sexual abuse. As women we can try and help but there are just some things that we'll never understand about their point of view in all of this!!!!!!
For my partner the whole recovery from abuse issue needs to take place in a safe space.. if I continually, even with good intentions, intrude into that space when he is most vulnerable (this was a bigger issue a few years ago than it is now) it can prolong things and in the past is has caused problems - I have been caught in the real-life "flames" of his anger - the kinds of verbal haranguing that you have seen on this board has happened to me in REAL LIFE. Not that I am accepting that type of behaviour (because it is unacceptable) but we cannot forget these are guys whose boundaries were violated, they were not listened to, not respected, and so for many of them MANY things remind them of that feeling of being not listened to/respected. I try to keep that in mind and not post on the male-survivor-only thread at all.
Anyhow that's my view on things and so far I have not stepped on any toes. Some guys have welcomed my PMs and others have not.
PAS
I apologize for any misunderstanding about this post. I was assuming that this post was from someone who got blasted in the unmoderated forum a few weeks ago - which was a big issue to me when I went on xmas vacation.. but DUUH aI guess I must be tired upon second glance I can see it there are two different people here... and apparently I am mixing two different incidents here. Apologies for any confusion!!! So on that note.. I've snipped and edited!
Sorry folks!
P
Sorry folks!
P
While this is definitely what I think most surviors are aiming for, for many they are just "not there yet" and we have to respect that!!! A survivor can only do what he is able to do at the time and if he is just not there yet, he is just not there yet!
crisispoint
Registrant
Hokay, I've read through this thread again after I made my post and it hurts all the more when I consider two fine men such as Leosha and Theo, men who have literally saved my life, feel compelled to leave. Leosha particularly was bashed pretty hard by people who posted here and called vile names, such as "perpetrator," and they were wholly unjustified.
We are not "perpetrators" when we try to defend our friends. We are not "perpetrators" when we voice our opinions. We are only perpetrators when we actively go out to hurt someone KNOWING that we are hurting them.
That is also wrong, and unworthy.
Anyone, I feel, is welcome here, in this forum, and family/friends need to hear from each other. They also need to hear from other survivors in order to understand what happened to their loved ones from other points of view.
When good people are attacked, it is wrong. Am I a "perpetrator" if I stand up for my friend? If I misunderstood you, I need you to tell me, not attack me. I need to understand too. That doesn't make you or me a bad person. It's when you start tossing names around without thought of what they actually MEAN that you cross a line.
If standing up for a friend makes me a perpetrator too, then count me in. Tell me.
I am not a perpetrator. Nobody here is. I don't think we do it mean-spiritedly, but the namecalling has to STOP and NOW!
If it doesn't, we're driving people away who need us, we are re-victimizing them. And we ARE becoming real perpetrators.
Please, people, THINK! THINK before you say what's on your mind. I'm not now because I'm afraid of losing a very important support. All of you, the brothers and the sisters. Because, I gotta tell you, if this is what it's all about, maybe it's time that I cash in as well.
Maybe it's time to just walk away. But if I do, I know I will not survive.
But maybe I'm not worth surviving either.
Scot
We are not "perpetrators" when we try to defend our friends. We are not "perpetrators" when we voice our opinions. We are only perpetrators when we actively go out to hurt someone KNOWING that we are hurting them.
That is also wrong, and unworthy.
Anyone, I feel, is welcome here, in this forum, and family/friends need to hear from each other. They also need to hear from other survivors in order to understand what happened to their loved ones from other points of view.
When good people are attacked, it is wrong. Am I a "perpetrator" if I stand up for my friend? If I misunderstood you, I need you to tell me, not attack me. I need to understand too. That doesn't make you or me a bad person. It's when you start tossing names around without thought of what they actually MEAN that you cross a line.
If standing up for a friend makes me a perpetrator too, then count me in. Tell me.
I am not a perpetrator. Nobody here is. I don't think we do it mean-spiritedly, but the namecalling has to STOP and NOW!
If it doesn't, we're driving people away who need us, we are re-victimizing them. And we ARE becoming real perpetrators.
Please, people, THINK! THINK before you say what's on your mind. I'm not now because I'm afraid of losing a very important support. All of you, the brothers and the sisters. Because, I gotta tell you, if this is what it's all about, maybe it's time that I cash in as well.
Maybe it's time to just walk away. But if I do, I know I will not survive.
But maybe I'm not worth surviving either.
Scot
I've only just seen a bit of what's going on and haven't had any chance to find out what's happening, or why, at the moment.
And unfortunatly I have other things to deal with tonight, although I know the Moderating team are on the case.
So, can I just ask everyone to take a breather and let things settle while it's sorted.
I've seen a few posts where people are saying they are leaving, can I sincerely ask that you don't.
We're here to sort OURSELVES out, and if that means we fall out sometimes then so be it. Let's work to get over it, it's nothing compared to the crap in our past.
Thanks
Dave
And unfortunatly I have other things to deal with tonight, although I know the Moderating team are on the case.
So, can I just ask everyone to take a breather and let things settle while it's sorted.
I've seen a few posts where people are saying they are leaving, can I sincerely ask that you don't.
We're here to sort OURSELVES out, and if that means we fall out sometimes then so be it. Let's work to get over it, it's nothing compared to the crap in our past.
Thanks
Dave
crisispoint
Registrant
Brothers and sisters,
After reviewing what I have written here, and after considerable thought, I will be formally asking the moderators to close this post.
While the issues discussed here are important, there have been too many misunderstood responses and, frankly, personal attacks made on this thread, to make any more valid observations here.
Frankly, it was my last post that did it for me. I truly believe that nobody meant to be hurtful, and responded with their hearts, but a few of the brothers and sisters I care about most were hurt and I made what I later realized was a veiled attack on one of the respondants. I therefore became what I was railing against. I still stand by my ideas, but whether I meant to or not, I made a comment that could be construed as hurtful.
This topic is important, and perhaps the moderators can cut and paste the more insightful responses into a code-of-conduct that can be used for the future. This action, with real consequences for those who intentionally (key word!) break them. This can win back the confidences of the brothers and sisters who have been alienated.
I was scared for myself as well, because I saw a force for good about to come apart because of what was becoming personal attacks and words being tossed around without thought of what they could mean to survivors and their family and friends.
I hope that we can all learn from this, be able to discuss this issue more meaningfully at another time, and become a healing community again.
Again, please moderators, close this post. Too many good people are getting hurt.
Peace,
Scot
After reviewing what I have written here, and after considerable thought, I will be formally asking the moderators to close this post.
While the issues discussed here are important, there have been too many misunderstood responses and, frankly, personal attacks made on this thread, to make any more valid observations here.
Frankly, it was my last post that did it for me. I truly believe that nobody meant to be hurtful, and responded with their hearts, but a few of the brothers and sisters I care about most were hurt and I made what I later realized was a veiled attack on one of the respondants. I therefore became what I was railing against. I still stand by my ideas, but whether I meant to or not, I made a comment that could be construed as hurtful.
This topic is important, and perhaps the moderators can cut and paste the more insightful responses into a code-of-conduct that can be used for the future. This action, with real consequences for those who intentionally (key word!) break them. This can win back the confidences of the brothers and sisters who have been alienated.
I was scared for myself as well, because I saw a force for good about to come apart because of what was becoming personal attacks and words being tossed around without thought of what they could mean to survivors and their family and friends.
I hope that we can all learn from this, be able to discuss this issue more meaningfully at another time, and become a healing community again.
Again, please moderators, close this post. Too many good people are getting hurt.
Peace,
Scot
After a good look at what's going on with this post I think it's time to close it.
I appreciate that people have been hurt, many not intentionally, and I hope we're all able to move on get over it.
I would also ask that this post isn't just continued on the Unmoderated Forum or elswhere.
If anyone does have something to add PLEASE let one of the Moderators know about it.
We take your safety and views seriously, and I also believe non-judgementaly, and will treat everyones views with respect.
Many of you have pleaded for restraint and for common sense to prevail, and I thank you all for that.
Thany you all for your support.
Dave
I appreciate that people have been hurt, many not intentionally, and I hope we're all able to move on get over it.
I would also ask that this post isn't just continued on the Unmoderated Forum or elswhere.
If anyone does have something to add PLEASE let one of the Moderators know about it.
We take your safety and views seriously, and I also believe non-judgementaly, and will treat everyones views with respect.
Many of you have pleaded for restraint and for common sense to prevail, and I thank you all for that.
Thany you all for your support.
Dave
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