Discussion Board Boundaries

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Discussion Board Boundaries
two things:

one, i think it's clear that all that's being asked is that males have a place where it's only for them. reading is one thing, and it's similar to listening, you can tell someone not to do it, but if they're right there, they'll hear it. posting is another thing, and to me, it's just a boundary issue. no one should be put in the position to have their boundaries pushed, broken, or tweaked in any with way without wanting to. and no one should have to feel like they can't post here because it isn't safe, and that goes for both genders. still, everyone needs a little breathing room to be with others just like them. there's nothing wrong with sharing our experiences, but that sharing should be willing, not forced. guys need to have the opportunity to expressed themselves and relate outside of women, that's all any of us are asking for.

two, and i'm not usually the one to say something like this about an issue like this, but i think its had its moment. this is getting to the point where people are defending the issue instead of discussing the issue. and it's totally moved away from kolisha's original question. the last few posts seemed a little tense (granted i started it), and it's starting to get slightly warm. so i'm wondering if we can turn the heat down a little, or maybe just step outside for a moment, and then come back.
 
Everyone - I really appreciate everyone's sharing on the board. There are certain places restricted because of comfortablity and all ready reluctance to share (especially victimizations that cause so many negative feelings for guys).

We are all here for the same reasons - to get help, give help, give support! It is easier to accomplish this as outlined on the site.

Thanks for everyone's contributions,understanding and sensativities!

Howard
 
This has been the best and most reasoned discussion of this issue we've had so far, previous ones have tended to get a bit explosive.
And all that achieves is sending people into their particular corners and going on the defensive, and the offensive !

I think we have to accept that women can read the Male forums, and if they feel strongly enough about something then a PM to someone isn't out of order.
They take the risk of rebuttal, and I hope that if any man felt they didn't want a woman to PM them then they would at least be polite about that rebuttal.

My personal view is well known, I value everyones views regardless of sex or sexuality. But this is Male Survivor and the reason many guys come here is because of the Male forum, and that has to be respected.
I know that recently the Moderators have made a point of ensuring that more tightly, although a couple of innocuous posts have remained on the forum.

The fact is though that nobody has ever complained ( to me anyway ) about any particular post, the issue has always been a general one of women posting there, which is why I at least have let those few posts stay.

I'm sure that after reading this excellent discussion everyone will understand the boundaries better and we'll be better able to facilitate everones views.

It's a juggling act of trying to please all the people all the time, sometimes it's not that easy.
But we try.

Thanks to everyone for your views, and please carry on if you have anything further to add.

Dave
 
If a man entered a "women only" chat room on abuse and it was made known there was even one person made uncomfortable by his presence, he should have enough respect for the participants to leave.

Ladies, if you care as much as you say you do, please leave the few places we have, to us.

~Yves
 
Thanks to everyone who has responded to my original question & all that's ensued from it. I think, for me, the issue boils down to: this is a wonderful place for me to learn how to support the person I love - especially when I don't understand his pattern of self-protecting behavior, especially when he can't talk about any of this...

My experiences with my friend, coupled with the candor I have encountered here, have convinced me of the absolute necessity to learn to respect the "boundaries" of the survivor - male, female - we all deserve the same compassion.

From what I have learned here, I have come to understand that it is essential that we women partners & family need to develop a new kind of tolerance and dispassionateness (is that a word?)when interacting with our menfolk: we cannot treat them with condescension - they will see right through our feeble attempts at "playing therapist" or "dramatic rescuer." We need to learn how to be friends before all else. So. Would we go through our best friend's mail or read his private journal??? That's just plain unethical! C'mon Ladies! We can do better than that!

Nevertheless. There are certainly times when WE need support from our partners & none is forthcoming. These are the times it is impossible to be steely & resolved & strong. And sometimes our partners become less than helpful - much less than helpful - & cause us even more pain. So, if our posts appear to be "complaining" to the men in the forum, please understand that this kind of "discussion" & entreaty for support is just a normal part of womanish culture: isn't it better for us to voice our frustration here in this forum than take it out on our partner???

I think, for myself, I am just going to avoid the male survivor forum completely. However, I would greatly appreciate input from the men in the forum about specific issues concerning partner relationships. I have found that the best way for me to do this is to simply post an open-ended question on the Family & Friends board & this is what I will be doing from time to time.

So, for all you guys out there - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not avoid the Family & Friends forum!!! I would feel terribly impoverished if it was not for your comments & insights.

Thanks again to everyone!
 
Nevertheless. There are certainly times when WE need support from our partners & none is forthcoming. These are the times it is impossible to be steely & resolved & strong. And sometimes our partners become less than helpful - much less than helpful - & cause us even more pain. So, if our posts appear to be "complaining" to the men in the forum, please understand that this kind of "discussion" & entreaty for support is just a normal part of womanish culture : isn't it better for us to voice our frustration here in this forum than take it out on our partner???
Click to expand...
>>> What does this have to do with us :confused:
 
I am humbled by the courage of ALL the men here. You are the first in the history of man to band together to fight a terrible wrong. You WILL change the world by your efforts and your struggles here together. The world will be a better place, thanks to you. Fewer young men will be made to suffer, as you raise your voices and say "No More".

This controversy makes me really sad. All of us are here for the same reason - support for the male surviver. It's unfortunate that female partners/friends are treated with hostility by some. I'd like to note at this point that I haven't seen the same hostility directed at male partners. Clearly this issue holds a great deal of emotion for some. Perhaps this controversy holds an opportunity for healing. The opportunity to develop awareness of the current time and place, that for most survivers here, they are no longer in the abuse, and actually may really be in some state of safety in their lives. I know what happened to you men was horrible. It's unfair, and you shouldn't have had to live through that. But you did live though it, and the circumstances of your lives are different now. There may be safety and comfort around you. I encourage you to take a peep now and then... lift your heads and look for it; look for the actuality around you of the safety you need. It may be there, you may be able to perceive it in your mind, and if that happens, you may be able to feel that safety.

I wish peace to everyone here.
 
Edited, original post deleted.

Is this better? For my opinion to be shut up again?
 
A Plea for the return of Reason!
I feel backed into a corner, feeling personally attacked, and forced to defend myself.


From the Discussion Board Forum:

Leosha

Guest
Member # 1272

posted January 04, 2004 04:57 AM
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Are women allowed in the male survivor chat room? Are there any rules about that? I'm asking because I don't know.

Leosha


brian-z

Member
Member # 811

posted January 04, 2004 05:26 PM
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Its been a long-standing tradition that the main room of Chat is open to everyone, but Tree house & Survivor Room are for male survivors. As for what the official policy is, I dont know.



Leosha

Guest
Member # 1272

posted January 04, 2004 05:38 PM
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Thank Brian. I do not go there myself, but did not understand the rules of it.

Leosha
 
I don't understand my asking for clarification of something I don't know, not singling out of specific person, how that is 'attack' of you. I felt that both myself and Brian, in those posts, were quite civil.

I understand that my opinion of last night's events in chat are based on 'second hand' knowledge, as I was not in there, and do not go in there. However, as I stated before, I am quite protective of my young friend that *I* advised to come here. And he was very upset and distressed by what occurred. He is not at all talking of any of this in 'real life', other then telling me very little. So this was something I felt could be safe for him, as it was for me, to get started talking more of it, and realizing that it is all right. I stressed to him that this is a safe place. Now he is very scared and uncomfortable to come here. I think that the person who is responsible for that situation getting to that point probably does feel defensive of it. But again, my main concern is that this very hurt and scared boy has now been frightened away of this site, that could be greatly helpful to him.

Leosha
 
Condoning that behavior may be what leads a surviver to become a perpetrator.
Click to expand...
An unbelievable leap! I would caution everyone to ignore this kind of rhetoric. Sometimes things are said in the heat of the moment.

But as my dear wife would say, "if you see crazy coming, cross the street."

Peace, Andrew
 
OK, Everyone - this has gone quite far enough. It does not appear, to me, that anyone was being individually sniped at & I have no idea how this spiraled so far out of control, but the ferocity has to end! We all occasionally lapse into self-defeating behaviors, but this is way over the top.

Let's close the silly topic already & get on with our healing?????
 
Whoa.

I have already posted in this thread (back when it was a little calmer, this recent activity is somewhat of a shock) so I am limiting this to my response to what's been said since then.

For most of us, male and female, having to "deal with the presence" of the other gender is a part of real life that you can't easily get away from. And most of us, male and female, wish sometimes that we could. There is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with anyone wanting safe space where they can get it and nothing wrong with wanting to defend it. That being said, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me to direct a lot of anger and generalization toward half of the population--EITHER half. I get defensive hearing "women do this and that," as I think anyone would when they heard themselves put at the front of that remark. I am also not at all comfortable with, nor do I find appropriate, the generalizations being made about survivors/ male survivors/ partners/ women partners on this thread. When I hear, "This has happened and I don't like it," even if it's me you're talking about, that's something I can deal with. To say, the anger of a male survivor, if tolerated, leads to perp behavior? I don't think that's fair. I think that's the kind of stereotype that keeps male survivors from disclosing in the first place and keeps them out of "mixed" forums.

Yes, I talk about my hurt sometimes. I talk about "my" problems. But I do so in the hope that I can help someone I love, who is leading a life with me and therefore we "share" each others' problems, and I speak for myself because I'm the only one I can speak for. Also in the hope that someone else--maybe even a male survivor trying to get some insight and help with his own relationships--might take something out of what's been said. I can understand how, for men who aren't in relationships with women or who aren't ready to step out of a safe, male-only space, that is entirely not helpful. But I don't think that anyone here posts about their feelings or experiences, anywhere on the board, because this community says, "what do your feelings have to do with me?" This is a place for shared experiences, for community experiences that are made out of personal experiences. If it has nothing to do with you then I'm sorry I can't help you but I'm not sorry for contributing what I can to the discussion.
 
Originally posted by Emiwe:
.

I feel threatened by any violently angry post made against women in the Family and Friends Forum. Condoning that behavior may be what leads a surviver to become a perpetrator.

I hope that all adult male survivers will be able to conduct themselves as adults in the Family and Friends Forum, and give us the respect and at least a minimum of civility that they themselves wish for.
Click to expand...
Aarrrrrreeeeee you really talking about LEOSHA...of all people? :rolleyes: He is the antithesis of 'violent'. I'll give ya angry, cuz he has every right to be, but as to the "future perp" thing, that is the ultimate insult.

Observation #2: Ok, it took awhile for me to get the full gist of things, but I do get it...the name on the top of every page around here is MALE SURVIVOR. As women, we have absolutely NO rights here...not to demand any sort of "behavior standard" or any particular 'space' or anything else. There is no 'law' stating that they 'have' to even have a family and friends forum.

Every moment of every day in these guys' lives, they have to 'behave'. The cool thing about here, is they don't HAVE to! They can say whatever the flip they feel like, and nobody is supposed to be judging them, or chastising them, or telling them they're rude or unacceptable in any way. They can even fart if they want to! Everyone needs a place to let their hair down, and as one famous man once said, "This is the place."

Nobody said anything "against women".

Chill

Lynn
 
Lynn, Thank you, thank you. You have said it all! And you are so right about Leosha. He is the gentlest and kindest of souls. And he certainly didn't deserve the scurrilous, slanderous, slagging he received late yesterday. Nor did any of us need to be characterized as perps for possibly showing anger in the one safe place that is available to us. Fortunately, your kind words and the kind words that have characterized the postings of many and most of the other ladies, out-weigh the mean spirited and outrageous words of one. Peace, Andrew
 
Emiwe,

To call us perpetrators if we don't want you to bash us is abusive. A way to force your control over us and what you have referred to as "your" survivor.

So, I ask you these questions:
Are you here for him or yourself?
Which do you really care about, his being SA or you being inconvienced by it?
If his SA didn't affect you, would you even care?

All of the women partners that claim they are here for "their" SA survivor should ask themselves those questions. There are a few of you that I truely believe that are here to help, but there are others that I see that are here for themselves, not the survivor they are claiming to be.

Bill
 
Read the post, quoted the post, and yes you did.

Look up the definition of "abuse". Nobody did it to you here.

Nobody's 'projecting' anything onto you. YOu asked for it, you got it...Toyota.

If what you have said has "triggered a couple people", it's because they have a vested interest...a long time one, and it's THEIR issues, and THEIR suffering. This place is about THEM. You can go to sleep at night, and wake up fine. Many of them can't. They live with it every second of every day. And 'you' deserve the compassion?

As for me, I feel just a tad protective of some of the people I have come to know and love around here. I don't want to see them hurt any more. Enough is enough.

Nobody is 'entitled' to go ANYWHERE that stomps all over another person. As my mom says...all the time..."Your rights end where someone else's begin." I reiterate...being a woman, we HAVE NO RIGHTS here, so throwing your "confidence and knowing yourself" around hold no water. If you know it "can be threatening", then why are you doing it? The last thing anyone needs here is to be threatened. That's the root of the problem in the first place.

Conflict is avoidable, if nobody throws the first stone.
 
Emiwe,

He is not "your" survivor, he is a survivor. To claim that shows your wanting to control him, just like his perp(s) did. Which is worse? If you want to help him, be supportive of him on his schedule. You cannot force him through it as you want.

And to force yourself upon the other men of this organization is an extreme show of wanting control. It was politely, at first, explained to you that some of the guys had an issue with you being in the chat room. To which you responded, "what about my issues?" This is the one place that men alone can come to. They need to have that respect, to which you would not relent, demanding that your issues be addressed over the other men that were there, some new just beginning their healing journey. You say that you learned boundaries a long ago. Try learning a bit of respect.

The questions remain. Are you here for who you so lovingly refer to as your survivor, or for yourself?

I have up until your outburst in the chatroom, been a supporter of women here at MS. I value the access to get their opinion on matters. I am glad the ones, that truely are here to help the survivor they love, are here providing support for all of us. I applaud their strength and compassion.

Bill
 
Dear Lynn,
We are wasting our time on this person. She just doesn't 'get it', and we need to move on. The real winner is her ex bf Mark, and he should be celebrating his freedom from this person. And Lynn, I don't know who your husband or significant other is, but kiddo, he's got a winner and a real sweetheart. Peace, Andrew
 
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