disaster

disaster
B

beccy

Registrant
Hi again everyone,

everything's spun out of control..

last night bf confessed he was more attracted to men than women. said he found men's bodies more attractive than mine. said he desired men more than me. said he wasn't 'certain' about being with me.

Then after some questions, it seemed like what he was talking about was only one type of body/fantasy....like a genital reaction/fetish type thing it seems. The thing is, I understand those kinds of strong exciting feelings. I've had a similar thing myself. I've also had confusion in the past. But I've NEVER had such disregard for his feelings as to not bother CONSIDER how the way I explain something REALLY MATTERS to his feelings/belief that I'm attracted to him and want him.

The bottom line is, he's made me feel like a piece of s**t. Like I rate so low to him. Like I'm second rate; looks/lust/desire EVERYTHING. I'm someone he can use for all the love i give him. He tells me he's afraid of losing me and wants to be with me, and then the next second that he's uncertain? When I think about it, I've never felt he adores me. He's never asked me to marry him even though he knows I would.

I realise he's very confused right now, but to me this feels like an abusive situation. I've always put up with feeling like he doesn't really want me, but I'm worth more than that. He's always known he's everything to me. He now knows we've got the kids tying us together, I have baby I'm still feeding, I have no independence, either financially or career. How could I possibly LEAVE HIM?

Well, I've f*****g well HAD ENOUGH :mad:
I told him there's no way I will consider continuing this in this sense of a proper relationship. I cannot be with someone who is that uncertain about me. I said I would rather he was free to do whatever the f***k he wants with whoever he wants. (as long as it's not dangerous) And that goes for me too. No way am i going to be the person waiting in the sidelines with my life on hold while he takes months/years to come to a solid conclusion.

I will NOT be treated like this.
I will not live with some kind of pretense.

He just left a message on the answer phone saying he wasn't giving up on us....doesn't want to do what I suggested. Said that's not where his head's at right now. Well, what about tommorrow? The day after? Next month? ten years time?

How can I trust his feelings for me ever again when he told me I wasn't as attractive to him as fat hairy men :mad: He said he was confused about the meaning of all the words, but really?! I'm not a man and I can't ever compensate for anything in that respect. Where do I fit into all this desire stuff. I am a WOMAN, I'm no different to other women.

I want to know the person I'm with finds me beautiful/irresistable etc. If the truth really is that he does desire me in all of these ways, how come I've never felt enough of that? If it's true, then he has NO RESPECT for me at all! He has treated me badly and I've no idea how to get past all of this :(

I'm just really feeling like I want some of the good stuff. I want it for ME. I've waited so long I'm not sure I have the strength to live without this need being fullfilled anymore. I want it enough that I even feel I would be happy to get that from someone else and him to get whatever he's after from someone else too. Then, if he comes to realise it's me he really wants he'll be able to properly express that. If it weren't for the kids....... :(

I feel so numb, think maybe I'm in shock......want it all to stop.......it's like going back to when my parents split up and my head went messed up. How am I supposed to cope with all of this and still have the energy left to look after my kids properly/have any kind of life for myself?

help everyone, what do i do now? If there's any survivors here to offer advice, that would be great too.

thanks for reading this,

peace, Beccy
 
I wish I could offer you some words of solace. It is so difficult to have little ones who are dependant upon you and to feel unloved. There's nothing going "in" to help you to love unconditionally. At least that is how I have felt with my husband. It sounds like you are in so much pain. I'm sorry for that.
I have different things going on, but I have two small girls and I am trying so hard to make their lives stable. After getting evicted, I found a new place, moved, set it up, then two nights ago found out the apartment has fleas (the landlords were very, very sorry) so we had to move back to my sister's. This morning, my five year old woke me up complaining and whining about EVERYTHING, as five year olds are wont to do. After about ten minutes of this I grabbed her by her arms and said loudly, "STOP, STOP!" Of course, I now feel full of remose like I abused her and am a terrible mommy. I feel awful. She is just responding to all the upheaval, and I lost my temper.
Meanwhile, my husband has called two nights in a row at 7:00, which is the middle of dinner/night time everything. I said to him, you have had all day to call me at work and this is when you choose to call? I am not trying to play games with him, but this is what he does. I have said that I am not excluding him from the possibility of living with us, but I can't take his manipulations anymore. Instead of calling me at work during the day to discuss how things will move forward or what he is doing, he waits until a terrible time when I am alone with the children and somehow twists things so that I feel like I am putting up a wall against him. Does that make sense?

I wish I knew how to proceed in a loving, supportive yet self-respecting manner. I'm sure you might be asking yourself the same thing.

Take care of yourself. I'll try to do the same.

Cecilia
 
Hi,

I grew up in a home with lots of physical violence, emotional abuse and unclear sexual boundaries, though there was not any physical sexual abuse. I don't believe children should be spanked or hit or pinched or anything in any way. However, I think because of my own experience when I have to parent in any way that is asserting authority over my children I get panicked inside and feel monstrous. I am working on this with a therapist and have been for years. I think my past has also turned me into someone who tends to apologize for other people when they are mean to me. I don't mean to imply that I am a totally calm mother, but after posting my last response about my outburst at my daughter this morning I just wanted to express a little bit more.

I know that my anger towards her is probably about my husband. I want to tell him to just "STOP STOP"

Cecilia
 
I am sorry this all came out like this, especially because the way it came out makes you feel so bad. One thing Ive learned, we should be with whatever person we choose, because they are the one we want. When those loyalties get blurred there is always trouble.

That said let me speak of a few things. First lets talk about fetishes. A fetish is where someone takes sexual feelings and imposes them on an object. A fetish is a fixation the develops out of fear and desperation usually. For example, I am attracted to animals. That attraction developed out of fear of having sex and getting involved with the intimacy of being with a real person. You can have sex with an object, a thing without any danger or commitment. It is a safe alternative for someone that either by their choice, or by their isolation has no other outlet. People can become objects and fetishes, if what you are being sexual with isnt the person, but for certain feelings and events. I agree it is possible that if one type of man in a fixed situation appeals to your boyfriend then it could be a fetish.

Also, I would like to point out that during recovery, things that you have struggled with become stronger, more powerful and appealing. He may have been resisting, even denying these attractions his whole life, and when he lets them come to the surface, they will be very, very powerful. The thing is, once the newness and thrill settle down, they lose that power. By the time he is healthy again, it is very likely his sexuality will be something completely different than it is now. He is giving these attractions far more credit than they will ultimately deserve, if it plays out the way my animal attractions did. At one point, I thought I had to do that, but in the end, I have no desire to do it. Those feelings were coming out of fear, escape, compulsion and all sorts of bad places, and when I began loving myself again, I no longer wanted things that hurt me like that.

I know you are hurt and angry. Recovery does that. This may very well be something that destroys you two, but I hope that what I have said allows you to see that it is important not to react rashly. In recovery things are rarely what they first seem.

Jeff
 
Hi Everyone,

After reading over my last post, I realized I probably should have started a new thread because I went off the subject that Beccy was writing about. Her talking about her children just got me thinking about my own children and how difficult it can be to be responsive to parters as they go through their own struggles when the needs and demands of children are so constant.

I don't expect that children need perfect parents to be happy, but I think they do deserve to grow up in a safe, loving environment and so often these days I feel like my partner undermines our environment. He can't seem to see how damaging his absence is and get caught having to somehow explain it. How do you possibly explain in any sort of way to little children what their father is going through? Obviously they don't need to know everything, but at age five I know my daughter is aware of my husband's ups and downs.

Cecilia
 
thanks for your replies so far everyone...

phoster, that info about your own fetish experience is something I relate to. It's reassuring to hear it in the context of SA, but it's just that my bf is telling me he's not certain about ME. being with me. our future together. I just don't know how to cope under those circumstances. I fear that now, even if he comes home and tells me he wants to spend the rest of his life with me, I will find it hard to trust that and believe him.

It's like I fear if we're not having sex, he'll be uncertain again...etc etc....but, like I said we can't have sex, cause he treats me like I'm vile/ignores me when I behave sexually. If he could treat me with some kindness and respect and tell me he's triggered, instead of putting part of the blame onto me/our history, I could cope with it, but it's like he HATES me. Happy enough to f**k me when I'm mute/distant/non sexual, like I'm some kind of prostitute. Unwilling to actually invest in any kind of real intimacy.

peace,
Beccy
 
only you can decide where you have to draw the lines for your own personal happiness.

"Unwilling to actually invest in any kind of real intimacy."

right there is why he has this fetish like problem. he is afraid of sex and intimacy. he can only perform if he turns it into an act instead of an extension of love and affection. i suspect all of this will change in time, if he stays in recovery and actually makes progress.

Beccy, my wife has voiced some of what you said. she was afraid because i kept telling her i wasnt happy. she was afraid if we didnt have sex enough, i would cheat. she didnt feel like she was what i wanted, or that she was ever going to be enough for me. this was only a couple years ago that this happened. our lives have completely changed. i dont know if somewhere deep inside she still has those fears, but i dont think they are very loud if she does. honestly, she didnt change much at all. i changed. i changed because i loved her, and i didnt want to lose her. i did some awful things along the way, including cheating on her. if we can make it, you can too, but he needs to get with it. he needs to sit down and think about what he wants. if he wants this relationship, he needs to get in with both feet and quit farting around before he loses you. show him this. have him write me if he comes here. i will share my insight if i can. i almost lost my wife because i was an idiot. maybe he'll hear someone that has been in his shoes.

or naturally he can always IM me here. or if i can help you, feel free to write. if i can help before you get as messed up as i did, let me know.

[edited by mod to remove email]
 
Phoster, thank you so much for your kind words..
I am sitting here crying feeling so much gratitude towards you for that.

I'll tell him you said he could write you if he comes here....he's not done that yet, I think it may make him feel less alone.

I want so much for it to be true that he really wants me....I see now that in all my own sexual confusion, all I've ever wanted is for him to want me and i hope he learns the same thing too.

peace, Beccy
 
if my wife hadnt forced me to get help, i would still be where i was. no one wants to go to therapy, and no one wants to come to a place like this. you do it because you've had enough, and you want to change. it is time he proves that he means what he says. it is time he actually gets help, or it may be time for you to think of your own happiness and needs. at what point does his stringing you along become abuse? only you can make that call, but clearly you are very unhappy. i dont think you can give him much more time. he must do something.

my hopes and prayers go out to you two. love is a very precious gift. i hope and pray he sees it before it is too late.
 
Phoster,

just had long and meaningful conversation with bf.

he professes his wish to stay with me, says he finds me beautiful and sexy. I have to believe what he says. He sounds very genuine and the vibes between us have always seemed to be there, unless I've been crazy. So, therefore if we work through everything, hopefully things can get better for us.

he is already seeing both a homeopath for about a year and a trained Therapist every week for about 4 months now, so he's very committed to recovery. I am hugely relieved about that obviously. Also I am becomming far better at expressing my needs/feelings since I've been seeing a homeopath for a year 1/2.

he says he's certain about us. I pray that's the truth. I suppose only time will tell. In the meantime I will love him and maintain strong lines of communication. And continue to be clear about when I don't feel loved.

thankyou again for your brilliant support,

peace, Beccy
 
you're quite welcome, and i wish you two all the best. you know where i'm at if i can ever help.
 
Beccy,

My heart goes out to you too. I know how draining it can be, trying to also take care of children (I have 1) and having enough confidence and love to give to them, when you feel all you do most of the time is GIVE. I've been taking mine to church for 2 months now, alone, looking like a single mother. I can't get my husband to join us, and I suppose maybe he thinks he's too shameful to go to church or something. But I am just trying to encourage you to do what you can for your kids' sake, even though YOU are running on empty at times.

I'm so happy you and b/f talked and that he reassured you. I would love some reassurance myself. That last time I asked, mine let me know that he does not even know if he loves me. So that totally broke me up right there.

At LEAST he is in therapy!! That is huge. I can't get my husband to even think about talking to someone....well, I haven't brought it up for a while now because I'm trying to back off a bit, but the last time I did he was adamant that he did not want to talk to someone, and even said, "DON'T PUSH ME."

Eventually I will refer him to this site, if I ever feel he is open to receiving it. My fear is that he would not even open the link, would not even go there.

Phoster, your posts are VERY encouraging. Was there ever a time when you were very confused, like not even sure if you loved your wife or just didn't "feel close" to her?? How long were you in therapy and how did your wife act the whole time - did she back off as I'm doing, or did she constantly push you to go to therapy or lose your marriage (as in ultimatims?) or what? Do you believe that the cheating was just a result of the painful process of healing? Healing does get worse before it gets better, doesn't it? ?? I'm sorry for all the questions but this is where desperate people come, isn't it?! ;-)

Beccy, maybe you're in the toughest part of the healing process NOW, and maybe a year or two from now it won't be nearly this bad. My husband cheated on me a little over 4 yrs ago, before we conceived our daughter, and I am sure it was his "acting out" because it was just a call girl, for impersonal sex, even though we had no significant marital problems, but I don't know if he's realized WHY he did it, because the only answer he's ever given me is that he doesn't really know why himself, except maybe "to prove something about my masculinity" (direct quote). He even told our marriage counselor at the time that the sex w/ the call girl wasn't even very good. He said passion was missing. ?? Whatever. The last time WE had sex was about 3-4 wks ago, and he said at the time that he did not "feel anything at all." (I'm sure he means emotionally, not physically).

I feel like he is just a cold robot. He gets up, makes his coffee, dresses, goes to work, has not a need in his body for any physical contact with me. I mean, not even touching my back or hand or anything. WHen he sleeps, he turns to face the wall and sleeps right on the edge of the bed so we will not likely have to touch. It hurts me so much. I guess he's hurting too, right, but he doesn't seem to feel anything at all.

Thanks,
 
i got very confused. healing is a very hard things, because you start examining every aspect of your life, trying to figure out who you are and what you want. i was working on acceptance, accepting myself as i was. there were a lot of things i liked sexually that i had always denied myself. when your therapist begins helping you accept things, you begin to want things. i asked my wife for them, but she wasnt open to them. in time i convinced myself i had made a bad choice, and that Deb and i were just not compatible. i guess when i gave up on us was what made the affair possible. i was convinced i was with the wrong person, and i turned to someone i thought was the right one.

i know i needed help. my wife had to threaten me to take that first step, but once i did, she didnt have to push. i wanted to get help, and i wanted to heal.

in my case, therapy kind of strips away who you thought you were. here you thought you were sick, perverted, worthless, and suddenly you arent those things. you get kind of lost and confused, you are losing your identity in a way. the new one begins to form, but there is this point where you just arent sure who you are or what you want. that is when i finally cheated, but it was a long time getting there.

it does seem to get worse as you drag all this stuff up from inside. you basically have to relive what happened and deal with the feelings you shoved in a closet as a kid. that isnt easy.

honestly, i was so defeated when my affair came out it was a relief. it was like i loved two women, but couldnt keep two. i was in agony. i figured even if i lost my wife or both, at least i could start over again as the new me. if she wasnt the right one, i could use the chance to find the right one or whatever.

in the end, i learned. i learned it doesnt matter who we choose in life. you can be happy with the one you are with, if you devote yourself fully, and get rid of these ideas of something else around the corner. as long as your mind is on the greener pastures instead of on what you have, you will never be settled and happy. after four years of work, the last step was resolving to be exactly where i am, and getting in my marriage with both feet.

i first came here in feb.02, and i finally broke down and went to therapy in dec03. i am still working with a therapist, not my original one. the one i have now is a family therapist i see with my wife or alone as needed.
 
Thanks for you honest info about your own healing process Phoster......

And Brokenhearted, I really feel for you in your situation with husband refusing to get help..and not giving you any love.....what does he do if you try to give him love?......hope that he gets help soon for the sake of your family.

I know I said bf reassured me, but I'm not so sure.....I keep running over everything in my head and I wonder if he's still lying about something.....have a fear he may have cheated/be cheating. He swears he hasn't, but I'm not so sure......

will write again soon,
Beccy,
Peace everyone
 
well studies show that 80% of people have cheated at one time or another, so i think it is something many of us are capable of under the right circumstances. honestly, i would have swore i wasnt cheating too, but i think until you know, you have to give them the benefit of the doubt. if we acted on hunches or fears, we would never have a lasting relationship. relationships require we risk ourselves. you have to put yourself out there, trust each other, and give yourself to the relationship for it to work, and that comes with a risk. we might be hurt along the way, but there is no real relationship or love without a risk.
 
Beccy,

I can appreciate the turmoil you are enduring here and I'm so sorry you have to go through all this.

I am coming to this thread late, but one thing I haven't seen on it so far is the issue of sexual confusion and self-doubt. Maybe this would be of some help to you.

A boy who is being abused is being physically molested and ravaged, but he is also suffering tremendous emotional harm. It's at this time in his life that he would normally be laying down the foundations for what will soon be his ideas about who he is: socially, morally, sexually, and so on. All that is destroyed by abuse and later on, when he tries to piece all this together, he is building on rubble. When the time comes for him to face what happened and recover, all that old confusion and distress is right there to meet him head-on.

At the same time, abuse will have taught him the false but still very powerful lesson that these things happened to him because he didn't deserve any better. This is one I remember vividly; in fact, it may have been one thing that kept me alive. I felt that the things the abuser was doing to me just didn't matter; I wasn't worth any better than this.

Again, this terrible feeling doesn't go away just because a boy grows up. A man can easily imagine that all his life, no matter how apparently happy and fulfilling, is just a fraud. One day everyone will figure him out and everything will come crashing down.

How does all this relate to what your bf has said and done? I would suggest it relates one hell of a lot.

First, if your bf is confused about who he is - sexually and in other ways - this feeling, combined with extremely low self-esteem, could easily lead him to doubt his relationship with you and wonder if he's gay. In fact, this happens all the time. A survivor can usually look back and see all sorts of things that feed his feelings of self-doubt and loathing, and often as a boy he would have been told by the abuser that "he liked it", he was "in on it", and so on. This is a topic that deserves a long discussion in its own right, but the bottom line is that when he says he thinks he might be gay, or says that he fancies men and not you, he is actually casting a terrible judgment against HIMSELF, not against you. He is also failing to see that homosexuality and sexual abuse are two very different things, but again - a different topic.

And if he is suffering from severe self-esteem problems and feels that he's worthless, he may even provoke and welcome exactly the sort of sentiments you express in your first post. When you say you have had it and you are leaving, he will feel that this is exactly what he deserves. Again, for him what's happening is that his devastating judgments against himself are being confirmed. It isn't about you at all.

I think this shows through in your later post, where you say he confirms his love for you and finds you sexy and beautiful. That's him battling through and speaking "over the abuse", as it were.

It's a rough and rocky road dealing with a survivor in a relationship and only you can decide what's best for you and your children. I hope my comment here is of some use to you as you think about what you need to do to secure your own future and do what's best for your kids.

Much love,
Larry
 
beccy,

My partner shared with me that part of what he learned to do with his therapist was give himself permission to be attracted to women in a healthy way and to accept those feelings in himself as normal.

I see the same theme in many posts from survivors here-- guys who have a hard time acknowledging their own sexual feelings because they associate wanting sex with abusers.

Now I won't lie-- part of me was a little :eek: :confused: at the idea that he was checking out attractive ladies in the name of therapy, but as we talked more about it I realized that he was also allowing himself to bring our relationship into that more conscious, relaxed space in his mind.

Also at this point there was trust built up between us and I understood that he was not trying to cheat on me, or even fantasize about other women-- he was just allowing himself to make decisions about what he liked, what he wanted, what he thought, and really being aware of those decisions.

So at this point he is aware of what else is out there and what he thinks about it, and okay with what he thinks about it for probably the first time since grade school-- and still choosing to stay in this relationship and make it important in his life.

Plus, all of this acknowledgment of his own feelings/desires is a new thing for him, and a big deal, and he took a risk in sharing it with me, because I might have lost it over the finding other people attractive part.

What I'm saying is that this was a positive conversation for us and a turning point for me in getting to feel more comfortable about the way our lives were headed, fairly early in his recovery. But it would have been very easy to lose that good stuff in my own fear and insecurity.
 
Thanks Sar, and Larry and Phoster,

some of that advice has really given me a different angle on a few things....

It's interesting, the thing you say Sar:

''My partner shared with me that part of what he learned to do with his therapist was give himself permission to be attracted to women in a healthy way and to accept those feelings in himself as normal.''

My BF did say a couple of weeks ago, that he'd fantasised about a girl he'd seen at the swimming baths......I suppose that was him sharing with me perhaps how enjoyable he'd allowed himself to do that. I don't think I was reassured by it at the time, because it made me panick about why that seemed so unusual to him. But, now I understand it's actually a very positive sign and I feel bad about how I didn't celebrate that with him.....I think it was probably to do with the way he told me.

I've just been very insecure from everything and the 'I'm not certain about us' and 'you're not as desirable as xyz' really destroyed me. I'm seeing things a bit differently now, thinking of things from the perspective of some of my own life experiences and understand more what he might mean by some of things he said.

It's unfortunate isn't it, that two people talking can each interpret words and their meanings differently. Causing misunderstanding and confusion :rolleyes:

as far as the lying is concerned...he swore he's nothing more to hide...

bye for now,

Beccy
Peace to you all
 
Oh, just wandted to add that I'm going to try and make more of an effort to look after myself in all senses...thinks its of great importance right now and I've not been doing very well these last couple of weeks. I mean I've not totally fallen apart, but felt close to it. It just takes up so much energy I think, all the suspicion and paranoia. And, I reckon it's doubly hard having kids as part of the picture, cause from my perspective, that's a huge insecurity in a family sense.

My own parents split up, so I do think that I keep going into a kind of similar state of shock which i had back then. Kind of numb. Then depressed. I feel that there are times when I'm not truly 'feeling' and appreciating some of my bf's communications. This is something I really need to talk to my homeopath about.

The way I see it, is that my bf is discovering himself. I suppose we're both going to grow. Hopefully in the same direction. And hopefully he'll still want to be with me and I with him....

peace all
Beccy
 
Beccy,

You wrote, "The way I see it, is that my bf is discovering himself. I suppose we're both going to grow. Hopefully in the same direction. And hopefully he'll still want to be with me and I with him...."

This is exactly what I'm concerned about -- if I let this CSA issue alone, we will continue along with things the way they've been for 14 yrs, plus the worsened symptoms as of the past 2 months. If I try to get him to get himself help, I risk losing him in order for him to discover or reinvent himself. It is a very selfless act for me to want him to get help even if it means I lose him in the end.

I pray this does not happen. My husband was pretty promiscuous before we met and I hope he got it all out of his system and doesn't feel the need to go back out there to "rediscover" women. After him already cheating on me once, I don't know if I could stand more.

It's very scary.
 
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