Did my abuser rapist change my sexual orientation?

[ODAT]

What helped me tremendously with this confusing issue was reading Dr. Joe Kort’s book, “Is My Husband Gay, Bi or Straight?”
What I learned from this important book was that my erotic template was shaped by the first sexual acts I was forced to perform at 8. So my acting out on these (even if I perceive that I enjoy them) is a result of the erotic template formed in my youth. I am a heterosexual, married male but I still struggle with thoughts and desires of having sex with men. It’s not because I’m bi or gay as I have no desire to be in a relationship with a man. But I am drawn to the sex which was shaped by the setting of my erotic template. I wish I knew this when I was acting out in my 20-40’s as the confusion then is very clear now. Dr. Kort is also on YouTube. I strongly suggest to check him out for info on this important topic.

 

[MO-Survivor]

I wanted to add this as I just pondering on this angle about the forming of my fractured sexuality, it's a biggie that I'm sure effected others here too. Sorry it's long but it's pretty thorough.

I remember being in third grade (8) and liking a popular girl in my class, I thought she was pretty, very nice and knew she was popular. I had hoped that she would like me too. being 8 and prepubescent & pre-abuse there was nothing stirring in me about this like of her. I liked other girls too, just not as much as her, again nothing sexual as I didn't know anything about sex, couldn't even comprehend it if told about it. I was already shy & introverted by this time due to feeling like a freak because of my mother dying and our family situation & not measuring up to other boys and hated school, being in school having to be around all these kids mirroring back to me everything I wasn't, happy, content, self assured & confident... I was none of those.

By the time fourth grade comes around, I loose my step mom (of two years) as my father's drinking and staying gone out carousing drives her away. The sexual abuse is in full swing for months now and that heavy cloak of shame has consumed all that I am. Once puberty kicked in by 11 and my now out of control sexual drive with all it's faulty coping mechanisms (jealousy, power/control & ss imprinting) steering it I was a total mess.

That shame had me hiding in plain sight, I had a very small world of friends and could only stand being friends and around other hurting kids from broken homes and such, normal well adjusted kids I was too jealous to be friends with.

Girls as far as I knew were sugar and spice and everything nice, where as boys, especially bad boys like me were dirty dogs to be used and dominated to make me feel better about my broken self. I felt that no girl would ever want anything to do with me, that they would easily smell or see the shame and filth on me so I paid them no attention. I pursued no girls although two girls did come after me at 13 & 14, both times I was excited and got to fumble around, kiss & feel up their tits but nothing further, it was just a one time thing with both of them. It was a very brief sense at feeling "normal", but all I knew was going all the way with guys (daily, some times twice a day), it was so frustrating when sex with my act out friend was a phone call away and a quick walk up the street. That shame kept me locked up from reaching out or doing anything with any other girls or even risking any contact with other boys beside the arrangement I had with that one boy.

I had a gay uncle & his partner (we called uncle too) and was aware of this as a boy by age 7, I knew this before my abuse, I didn't comprehend all that being gay meant being so young but they were both loved & accepted and involved in my extended family, this was back in the mid 70's NYC. So it's not like I didn't know or had some instilled hate or fear of gays.

Feeling like such an outsider and a freak, my biggest hope and dream from early childhood on was to one day to be in a normal happy, healthy family with a wife and children, I even dreamed as a kid to be rescued by my death mother's family as I hated my own messed up family situation but they left me/us for dead too. I wanted a wife and family of my own someday and for all this craziness in my head that was driving me to have shameful sex with guys to stop. I hoped that finding love and marriage would someday fix me. I knew that I wasn't gay (my ss sex drive was not romantic) and knew that I could never have all that I craved by being gay so that was never an issue but still I was locked in the abuse cycle with the ss acting out, fantasy & thoughts.

Thanks to that shame I was locked up in I never dated girls girls in or out of high school and by the end of high school my act out friend stopped coming around for fear that he was doing gay stuff.

There was one girl who I happened to know from childhood who I respected and used to play with from time to time as kids, only a few houses away. She had a normal family and yet she still liked me as a friend, she was so incredibly nice and someone I could *trust*, as much as someone like I could trust. Years later after loosing contact out of the blue she asked me to the prom, I was taken by surprise, I had already stopped going to school, kind of dropped out already due to still hating school. I never got back to her about the prom and left her hanging, like the asshole I was/am... This was the first hint that I got that she still liked me somehow... A few years later she reached out to me through letter after I moved across the county, she was in college and I was stuck in the very blue collar world. She wanted to get together as friends and I relented so we met and had a nice time catching up but my feelings of shame and inferiority killed her hopes of getting together again after assuring her that we'd go out again soon. Months later she'd send funny ransom type cut up magazine letters to me wondering what happened to me... this coaxed me to call her finally and we picked up our friendship despite my inner demons of shame & inferiority trying to sabotage me/us. It was almost two years before we fooled around, due to my hangups about not being worthy and her being so pure and virginal, I was still acting out once in a while, but hoped that marriage would fix that (yeah i know, cliche). We ended up getting married by 22, still acting out once in a while and still suffered with the ss fantasy, thoughts & memories of abuse till it all came to a head at 31 when I stumbled onto healing once my denial of the abuse crumbled. Thankfully we did start having kids to after I was well underway with my healing from the abuse. I finally had my forever hopes and dreams of a healthy, happy family come to pass and it's been very healing in its self to be a Husband & Father being heavily involved with my kids growing up, I actually felt at times that I had a chance of regrowing up with them at times.

If it wasn't for my wife pursuing me that shame would've probably would've kept me single and locked in the secret abuse cycle of acting out or perhaps convinced myself that I was gay and risked aids at the time or lived out my life unfulfilled with not having that happy healthy family and children I craved since forever. Had we had kids early on in our marriage before dealing with my abuse issues I would've been either a very distant unattached husband & father with all my issues or worse yet, I might've even abused them with the way my mind got wired with power/control issues and masculinity hangups.

What a tangled mess the evils of sexual abuse does to our young minds and our futures, to our sexuality, to life its self sometimes.

George, I never tire of reading your accounts and perspectives. Appreciate you sharing. We were / are the same, but different. Lots of parallels, with some significant differences in our paths too. But always helpful.

 

[KMCINVA]

I believe abuse can confuse us as to our sexual identity as abuse causes us to want to relive as a means to control what happened to us, we believe the abuse was our fault and we wanted it and other issues. I do believe even if we act out on the abuse it is not indicative of our orientation. Our true orientation is not derived from reliving the abuse, trying to satisfy our emotional needs that were left void from the abuse, the confusion the abuse caused as to our bodies reacting to the abuse and believing the erection was pleasure vs. a bodily reaction.

Our orientation lies in where to we find pleasure, satisfaction and intimacy. The spectrum of orientation is wide, some find these emotions and sensations with the opposite sex, some with men and others from both sexes. Each of us need to understand our orientation and work through the confusion of our orientation left from the abuse. The latter is the difficult process we must undertake. In the end, whatever your orientation you are valued and should be loved. People who turn on anyone due to their sexual orientation is lacking compassion and empathy and probably has doubts about their own orientation. Every child as Bluefoot demonstrates needs to be loved.

 

[ODAT]

I believe abuse can confuse us as to our sexual identity as abuse causes us to want to relive as a means to control what happened to us, we believe the abuse was our fault and we wanted it and other issues. I do believe even if we act out on the abuse it is not indicative of our orientation. Our true orientation is not derived from reliving the abuse, trying to satisfy our emotional needs that were left void from the abuse, the confusion the abuse caused as to our bodies reacting to the abuse and believing the erection was pleasure vs. a bodily reaction.

Our orientation lies in where to we find pleasure, satisfaction and intimacy. The spectrum of orientation is wide, some find these emotions and sensations with the opposite sex, some with men and others from both sexes. Each of us need to understand our orientation and work through the confusion of our orientation left from the abuse. The latter is the difficult process we must undertake. In the end, whatever your orientation you are valued and should be loved. People who turn on anyone due to their sexual orientation is lacking compassion and empathy and probably has doubts about their own orientation. Every child as Bluefoot demonstrates needs to be loved.

KMC,
Very well said. The problem for me is when the imprint leaves sexual behaviors
that may have been enjoyable (if not in the abuse phase but in the acting out phase.)
How does a heterosexual married male put those imprints and behaviors aside
that he perceived to be enjoyable. They don’t mix with being married.
That is my struggle now…

 

[Bornfree]

KMC,
Very well said. The problem for me is when the imprint leaves sexual behaviors
that may have been enjoyable (if not in the abuse phase but in the acting out phase.)
How does a heterosexual married male put those imprints and behaviors aside
that he perceived to be enjoyable. They don’t mix with being married.
That is my struggle now…

I struggle with that issue too! When I was having intimate sex with my wife, often times I was thinking about having sex with a boy or group of boys all around 12. Interesting thought, my family doctor did rape me when I was 12, one incident, -used his fingers, pretending to do a rectal exam, but I was extremely confused by it. Not only did it hurt like hell, but I thought that if that is how you diagnose the flu, then my father could have done that at home in private - not in the "open" emergency room with my pants down at my ankles! In the end of it all, spent over a week in hospital being treated for the flu when in fact it was encephalitis, an inflammation of the brain, which was occurring in Brazil at the same time. It killed 10's of thousands of people, crippled 10's of thousands more. It took 2 years worth of school work from memory, scrambled it up and I lost some, most of it being math related. Then everyone thought I was being lazy and refused outright to help me!

 

[JA21]

I have thought this for most of my life, my abuse started at 11 and lasted a few years and I was raped at 14. I have had relationships with men and women in the past and now married to an amazing guy. But over the years I have always questioned my sexuality and wonder if it was ever mine to discover and explore or was it something that was brought out in me too soon! Would I have felt this way had the abuse not happened and would I still struggle with the intimacy issues I’ve got

 

[Bornfree]

The 64 BILLION dollar question to which I will never know the answer. I do know after putting the guilt and shame back on the Perp where it belongs I like and love myself as I never knew possible. I also learned I can self flagellate on this and other past items or I can deal with the past knowing it is past and concentrate on building a happier me now and in the future. I don’t have the energy for past speculation or the way the guilt that is not mine creeps back in.

The 64 BILLION dollar question to which I will never know the answer
For many of us, it may be a combination of events that trigger our sexual identity. So, for you, Manipulated, you may have problems identifying a single cause of your sexual identity, but certainly there is a part of the abuse that has affected how you see yourself. For me, Not only was it the sexual abuse, but the constant bullying, being ridiculed constantly, many times a day and day after day, being made to feel like a loser every day and not able to stand up to anyone, always getting poor marks in school, the list can go on. I have no idea why to my doctor saw such a sexually exciting pair of glutes in me when he raped me on the exam table when I was so horribly sick! Why did my playmate see my glutes as so interesting? Why did my father have to make me pull my pants and underwear off every time I belted me? So, the events in our lives will affect how we see ourselves. I guess, all we can do is to accept whom we have become, and live our lives as best we can. Maybe I'm wrong?

 

[Dunc6932]

Not a question of identity. The replay 100,000 plus times really made me question why it was that I couldn’t get the images and memory of what was said out of my mind. How to make substantial progress with eliminating those memories will always be a goal. I’ve also had the horrible misfortune of people who have learned of my abuse, actually mock and make fun of me for it. I think I need to be as far from those people as possible. They are truly evil for doing that.

 

[CafeMan]

Some fellow survivors have stressed that abuse never made them gay. They were gay individuals who just happened to be abused. Conversely, I know several who firmly believe that their abuse helped shape their orientation. Nature vs Nurture. I think it's a little bit of both. Perhaps there is a predisposition or early curiosity coupled with events of abuse. One may "think gay" but one may do gay acts such as acting out. I'm a single man who will be 49 next month. I always wanted to get married and have a family. However, I just felt that "all this stuff" in my life interfered with that reality. Yes, I was encouraged to go to therapy, talk it out, make an attempt, etc, etc. I feel like an addict in some ways in the sense that there are times I feel stressed out by work or whatever else. These stressors increase my self insecurities which lead to acting out which leads to questioning who I am which leads to confusion which leads to writing about this right now. Such a fun cycle, eh? Whatever the answer, I am learning to just give myself some credit in life, not be so hard on myself, and accept whatever challenges I encounter in life.

 

[GeorgeMartin]

I would say NO. Your orientation is what it is. Once you realize that (eventually and the sooner the better) the more you gain your self balance and those who did those abuses, violations and so on have less space in your mind. Realize that YOU are YOU, for who YOU are.

 

[I'm Alive]

Nature vs Nurture. I think it's a little bit of both. Perhaps there is a predisposition or early curiosity coupled with events of abuse.

I think you may be correct, there certainly is a diversity of opinion on this topic. But, for each survivor who believes he knows himself better than others, the survivor's own experiences probably more heavily impacts his thoughts and beliefs on this topic. So, as I have written elsewhere on this site, I began to recall the CSA I endured between the ages of 38 and 42. Prior to that I was very satisfied with my sex life with my wife. After having recalled being raped by men and used by my mother to give her orgasms, sex with my wife became less and less enjoyable and more and more repulsive as it reminded me of giving my mother orgasms... so, with time, I eventually stopped. Also with time, realizing that even though I was a little boy men were attracted to me gave me a sense of having value even though I felt worthless... this is a brief overview of the process that made me think "maybe I am gay" - so my life experience tells me that my thought process was indeed impacted by the recall of my CSA and that impact had a huge influence on my "orientation". However, we do not have to act on our "desires" - in my case - I do not want to commit adultery and betray my wife and family - but I have to live with the distorted thoughts that all this brought about and it is not easy to fight these battles in my head. So, I have deep empathy toward every man who fights similar battles. I agree with you CafeMan that we should give ourselves some credit in life and not be so hard on ourselves and accept whatever challenges we encounter.... we need to accept ourselves but I don't believe that our desires need to define us... I have had murderous fantasies about killing my abusers, including my mother - and I feel somewhat ashamed to state that her - but it is true - yet I never did that. So we need to choose how we wish to live... and when we fail to meet our own expectations, to forgive ourselves and continue. CafeMan you are still young enough that you still could get married and have a family - don't close the door on yourself. Peace.

 

[ODAT]

I think you may be correct, there certainly is a diversity of opinion on this topic. But, for each survivor who believes he knows himself better than others, the survivor's own experiences probably more heavily impacts his thoughts and beliefs on this topic. So, as I have written elsewhere on this site, I began to recall the CSA I endured between the ages of 38 and 42. Prior to that I was very satisfied with my sex life with my wife. After having recalled being raped by men and used by my mother to give her orgasms, sex with my wife became less and less enjoyable and more and more repulsive as it reminded me of giving my mother orgasms... so, with time, I eventually stopped. Also with time, realizing that even though I was a little boy men were attracted to me gave me a sense of having value even though I felt worthless... this is a brief overview of the process that made me think "maybe I am gay" - so my life experience tells me that my thought process was indeed impacted by the recall of my CSA and that impact had a huge influence on my "orientation". However, we do not have to act on our "desires" - in my case - I do not want to commit adultery and betray my wife and family - but I have to live with the distorted thoughts that all this brought about and it is not easy to fight these battles in my head. So, I have deep empathy toward every man who fights similar battles. I agree with you CafeMan that we should give ourselves some credit in life and not be so hard on ourselves and accept whatever challenges we encounter.... we need to accept ourselves but I don't believe that our desires need to define us... I have had murderous fantasies about killing my abusers, including my mother - and I feel somewhat ashamed to state that her - but it is true - yet I never did that. So we need to choose how we wish to live... and when we fail to meet our own expectations, to forgive ourselves and continue. CafeMan you are still young enough that you still could get married and have a family - don't close the door on yourself. Peace.

Thanks I’m Alive for sharing that. I still don’t remember the last 8 months of my abuse at 8 (I’m 65 now.) But in my 30-40’s I was acting out with older married men (probably replicating the abuse I’ve repressed.) It still is an issue with my wife when we are intimate as it feels like there are 3 of us in the bedroom and we both know it…
Trying to get over that now.

 

[Saleboat66]

How many of you thought of this? Am I now a result of my teenage abuse and rape?

Did it play a part that had any influence on my sexual orientation, as I regard myself as BI lately, even though I was as straight as can be in my early tween...

Oh God the longest question existing in my life, and it's kept me from fully knowing anyone as deeply or as Intimately as men should - I have no idea who I am, and it has fucked up my life every moment since that 1st night I was molested.

I've really only been with my ex wife, and then I was consumed with guilt about feelings I had for men
When I have had encounters with men, its so easy and I don't worry about anything except it doesn't feel as personal, and please don't @ me,
" natural" as it does with woman, but I have no idea how to date, or if a woman is interested, or flirting, clueless, and rather than risk all that vulnerability and shame, I go to gay bar, and it's nothing and means nothing but it's comfortable and easy ...I hate it

 

[B06SAJ]

Between 10 and16 I was abused by both female and males
1 am now 82 and since then I have acted out with males
At the age of 77 I was given a phallometric assessment test
Turns out I am a rare case being 50 % interested in females and 50% interested in males
Was I born that way or made that way
I will never know so I just accept it now

It's sad so many of us are left to wonder

... I felt that no girl would ever want anything to do with me, that they would easily smell or see the shame and filth on me so I paid them no attention.

... What a tangled mess the evils of sexual abuse does to our young minds and our futures, to our sexuality, to life its self sometimes.

Much of what you said resonates with me. I still struggle significantly (at almost 65 years of age) to believe that ANY woman would find me attractive or desirable. I have pretty much come to believe that I will spend the remainder of my life single. My perpetrating parents distorted my erotic core so badly and the healing is taking such a slow pace that I will most likely never achieve a successful romantic relationship with a woman. I am nonetheless grateful for the healing that I have / am experiencing but boy this isn't the life that I had hoped for. I am so grateful for everyone here. I don't often comment out here but I wanted to express this. Thanks to all of you for being who and where you are. Many blessings to all on our healing journeys.

 

[ODAT]

Much of what you said resonates with me. I still struggle significantly (at almost 65 years of age) to believe that ANY woman would find me attractive or desirable. I have pretty much come to believe that I will spend the remainder of my life single. My perpetrating parents distorted my erotic core so badly and the healing is taking such a slow pace that I will most likely never achieve a successful romantic relationship with a woman. I am nonetheless grateful for the healing that I have / am experiencing but boy this isn't the life that I had hoped for. I am so grateful for everyone here. I don't often comment out here but I wanted to express this. Thanks to all of you for being who and where you are. Many blessings to all on our healing journeys.

George-none of us understands the journey we’ve been asked to walk. But for me, Easter brings hope of new life and that things will be better. I really appreciate your shares on MS. I wish you peace and healing…

 

[une.vie.d.espoir]

Hi,

I learned a few years ago that when we come to life on too this world, obviously we have no memory at what we heard or sees. Do you remember ?

That our first memory is our skin and that it still remembers what happened to us in early childhood. Where I'm going with this is that young people have good feelings or bad ones. So they have learned There senses and there sexuality so did I. We have developed what belongs to us sexually.

On the other hand our thoughts, our ideas and what we learn intellectually form our values they are individual to us and also they are collective.

So for that we live and have a lot of data to manage, hence the doubt and misunderstanding.

Good luck, I hope that over time things will become clearer for you.

Take care of yourself and those you love.

Jp

 

[Blueshawk]

Since being here at MS I appreciate the guys who have answered their ssa questions by finding themselves as bi in some capacity. Living married life with ssa and unaware of abuse did a hit to confidence and feeling like both a wannabe straight and a screwed up gay guy. As hard as remembering was, it's nice having light on things. It's weird how you can wander so long about something so basic.

 

[Gingerviking]

I have thought this for most of my life, my abuse started at 11 and lasted a few years and I was raped at 14. I have had relationships with men and women in the past and now married to an amazing guy. But over the years I have always questioned my sexuality and wonder if it was ever mine to discover and explore or was it something that was brought out in me too soon! Would I have felt this way had the abuse not happened and would I still struggle with the intimacy issues I’ve g

I have thought this for most of my life, my abuse started at 11 and lasted a few years and I was raped at 14. I have had relationships with men and women in the past and now married to an amazing guy. But over the years I have always questioned my sexuality and wonder if it was ever mine to discover and explore or was it something that was brought out in me too soon! Would I have felt this way had the abuse not happened and would I still struggle with the intimacy issues I’ve got

I relate to you saying this. My abuser was female and I've been questioning if they took away that side of me by pushing it on me too soon and making me fear female intimacy. I remember hitting puberty and being attracted to both. I have only ever acted on my feelings for men and remember pushing away feelings for females as I was just terrified of them in that way and still am really but hoping I can't change that someway

 

[SensoryOverload]

At 56, I AM proud to be a gay man! There was a point when my life was filled with self loathing and hatred, wishing for normalcy and to be straight. After years of 30+ yrs of on and off again therapy, I'm grateful to have overcome my struggles with what other people think and live closer than ever to being in the moment! No more shame or guilt about my attraction to men. I didn't get to find this out on my own, but my reality is here and now and not what could of been. Breaking the loops has helped me look forward instead of the past.

 

[smc1972]

There was a point when my life was filled with self loathing and hatred, wishing for normalcy and to be straight.

This was me from my teens to in my 30’s even though i came out when i was around 22/23. There were still times i had struggles with being gay even after making great friends during my early coming out and even being in my first relationship.

I never thought about the CSA and my orientation but then again i never really thought of the childhood stuff until i hit my 40’s. I guess for me accepting myself being gay first caused me not to struggle so much on if there was a cause and effect. I do not think there is personally. However i do believe it impacted me on dealing with sexuality and ever developing those early relationships like everyone else does. I feared being close to someone and i also judged myself as someone not worthy of being someone’s boyfriend.