Creating Safety, III: Nightmares (***** triggers in two examples*****)

Creating Safety, III: Nightmares (***** triggers in two examples*****)
guys i do intend to explain ,but my question is what do i expect to get from explaining ,i know there is nothing you guys can do to stop my nightmares ,all it can do is make someone else worry or feel bad ,not what i want at all .you know if i describe my dreams,and somebody gets triggered its not good ,why the hell do i have this need to talk about things that in the end i have to figure out for myself .no sleep makes it hard to think to even post. all the ideas given seem to be good ones but you know there are bad dreams and then there are nightmares ,bad dreams i think do respond to the things mentioned here ,even dreams about abuse cause you can change the outcome ,but nightmares are so out of control that even though i am aware i'm dreamming ,all i can do is listen to what the dreams are telling me ,the meaning of my dreams is not hidden ,its clear to see.and i think i understand why i have them ,but i cant stop them ,sorry this is wasting valuable space here .i'm just so tired . adam
 
ahhhhhh!sorry posted twice oh well
 
Shadow
I call mine "night terrors" because the words bad dreams and nightmares just don't seem to explain the pure terror that happens during one of my dreams.

I don't have any replay of abuse, or abstract message with dis-embodies hands, faces, etc. My dreams were pure unadulterated terror, and nothing more!

Keep talking about the dreams. Walk it off when you wake up drenched in sweat, terrified, and not wanting to close your eyes ever again. I don't know your history. Have you talked about your abuse with someone close to you? Have you disclosed? Are you still keeping the secrets? If so, you may want to look at that, and find someone safe you can disclose EVERYTHING with. I mean everything, no matter how sick you think it is, get it out, all out to one strong person who loves you and wants you healthy.

As I've said on other posts, since I disclosed my secret(s), and acting out, I have not had one nightmare. That was what was creating those nightmares for me. It maybe different for you or others, but just sharing what did it for me...

I hope this helps.

Jim

PS - You are hardly wasting space here. THIS is the place to share like that. Get it out!
 
Adam,

It's a good idea to talk about these nightmares bro, as Kurt says. I know you will have to decide when and if you can do this, but I want to give you some idea of why I say this. It isn't just a matter of some hippy "talk is good" blah blah blah.

"Hot" emotional memories and "cool" historical memories are stored in different parts of the brain, and the hot emotional stuff, like memories of the worst aspects of abuse, cannot be remembered on command (like trying to think did I buy milk at the store this morning). The hot memories can only be "triggered", and they come tumbling out without the useful tags that historical memories have, like names, dates, places, chronological order, and so on. The hot emotional stuff comes out in the present tense, in vivid and terrifying symbols and images (in your nightmares, for example), and mixed with all sorts of scary judgments and feelings, and so on.

When we talk about bad dreams and nightmares, we are making sense of them in terms of our "cool" historical memories. We are saying this means that, this refers to that time, and so on. We talk about our terrible dreams expecting that everyone will trash us, then nobody does! In this way we "transfer" the volatile hot memories to the part of the brain where we store cool historical memories.

That's why, for example, a survivor makes progress in his recovery. By talking, thinking and working on his problems, he is gradually moving them from a part of the brain where they can come surging out and still harm him, to a part of the brain where he stores things that he has resolved, understands, and trusts the solutions.

Like I said, this is WAY oversimplified, and I shudder to imagine guys like Ken Singer seeing this post :rolleyes: . But the bottom line is this: The more we hide our fears and nightmares and keep them secret, the longer we prolong their ability to tear us up and harm us. By talking, we ROB them of this ability.

I like that idea. I was robbed so bad by abuse. It's high time I did some robbing of my own! :)

Much love,
Larry
 
trigger trigger trigger!!! while i have talked about my dreams in private here it doesnt seem to have helped ,jim yes i did disclose and put my abuser in jail ,but at age 11 disclosing was not a good thing for me as i was forced to do it in public in court .my dreams are a combination of everything i have ever posted here if you look closly it is all tied together by the death of my brother it all springs from that . ok ,in my dreams i am 11 years old in body but adult inside ,i am in a very dark place like a room but i cant see any walls,suddenly one end of the room becomes an open field ,in front of me my dad is sitting on the ground crying ,he is holding my brother up aginst his chest ,jimmys chest and face are coverd with blood,this scene is real it really did happen ,i try to go to them but my dad knocks me away ,also real it did happen , my dad is screamming ,look what you did!!you killed my boy!! i am crying and shaking i'm sorry .i'm so sorry ,i just want to die ,my dad is very gentle now he is saying adam you can trade places with jimmy ,crazy ,but i believe him ,he says all i have to do is ask god ,just ask god to take me ,now to my side a man is standing it is jesus,i guess or god he is in white long hair beard ,he is telling me its ok adam you can trade places ,jimmy can come back if i am strong enough to die for him. all i have to do is let go of my life ,he says i can go with him instead of jimmy,crazy but i believe him ,while god is talking my dad is whispering ,just do it adam just let go of life give it back to jimmy ,next there is someone behind me ,i realize that i am naked ,god is there ,my dad is there jimmy is there dying ,suddenly i smell him he grabs me from behind ,pulls my head around and crushes his mouth over mine ,i try to fight but he is too strong ,my abuser is holding me like a vise, he reaches around and touches me ,there, my body responds instantly ,he tells my dad ,who is watching ,look at your little faggot boy ,he loves it! but you know what he loves even more? the pain i can give him !i want to die as he pushes into my body ,oh god my dad is watching him rape me ,god is just standing there watching ,my abuser is slapping me in the back of the head saying ,do you want this every night for the rest of your life ? just let go or is the little faggot boy to weak to die for his brother? my dad is still whispering in one ear god is still whispering in the other ,just let go adam its ok you can trade places you just have to be strong ,do it for jimmy ,do it for me ,my abuser is now almost to the point of orgasm as always he is choking me ,harder and harder the more excited he gets the harder he chokes me .will he finish before i die ? as always i dont know . i want so much to do what they say ,but the little me doesnt want to give up ,god is holding his arms out to me whispering ,just let go adam its easy ,my dad is whispering your almost ready adam, ready to give you life to jimmy everything is turnning red i am not breathing ,the blood in jimmys eyes is changing to tears ,i just let go ,and that is when i wake up screamming not from the dream but because it was a lie i am still alive . for the second time since the dreams started today i woke up in my closet ,during my abuse the closet was where he kept me in between the abuse it was my safe place . it is very scary to know that i got up and moved to the closet ,but have no memory of it ,what else might i do? it would be just as easy to walk to the gun case and who knows ,not that is my intention in any way ,but it is a concern .i'm sorry that i got you guys involed in my problem if i am lucky no one will read this trash .but if you do i thank you for trying to understand my craziness. i am starting to hear the whispers even awake ,but i have no intention of doing it i just want it to stop!! and i have tried therapy ,i have tried sleep meds ,all they do is make the dreams come faster and last longer ,cause i cant wake up . do i really have to go through this forever ?also while i had a few bad dreams after my abuse this did not start till my abuser got out of jail and began harrasing me ,about the same time i made comtact with my dad again after 10 years ,who does still blame me for my brother .and is very open that he does . i am ashamed of this post but there it is adam
 
Adam,

The first thing you need to hear and know is that this was an incredibly brave post. It's not trash at all. We all know your feelings about the events you describe, which means we know how much it hurts you to say these things.

The second thing you need to hear is that there is no shame for you in what you are saying. NONE whatsoever. Shame for the father who rejected his own son? Yes. Shame for the abuser? Absolutely! Shame for Adam then or now. NO!

What this basically shows is that just as you blame yourself for Jimmy's death you also blame yourself for the abuse you suffered. You feel that as punishment for your brother's tragic death you deserved to be handed over as a sacrifice to the abuser. The two catastrophes are linked by your feelings of guilt and by the idea that having "caused" Jimmy's death you think you deserved to be abused. None of this is true.

The memories of choking are vivid for me bro, and let me tell you, the abuser who hurt me did the same thing. The terrible truth is that a grown man can easily press on a boy's throat with his thumbs and make him feel he will be choked to death any second unless he does what he is told. This leaves no marks, by the way.

It is valuable to see that these dreams did not come to you until the abuser got out of jail. Little Adam fears that he will be abused all over again. Why? Because the problem about Jimmy is unresolved and he thinks he deserves punishment.

Keep talking bro. By doing that you will come to see that all these bad feelings about yourself are entirely undeserved. There is LOTS of blame to pass around, but none of it belongs to you.

Much love,
Larry
 
Shadow,

Please believe me when I tell you that I have never seen you waste space here, K? What you have to say is important.

Lots of love,

John
 
Adam,

I posted the above before I read your last post on the thread. Now I'll try to say some more.

First, Larry is right. I have never known you to be anything but brave.

Second, you have nothing to be ashamed of. You did nothing wrong in all of what happened. Your abuser, and I include you father in that catagory have plenty of shame to go around, but it doesn not touch you. They tried to make you the one responsible for thier problems but they are wrong.

It's so easy for a grown up to put his guilt and shame off on a child because the child has no way to fight it off. When that child grows into an adult, he takes the shame and guilt with him. You have come here because you realize you need help in dealing with all that was wrongly dumped on you. You are a man of compassion and caring to others who come here. You're a good guy, Adam.

I think your dreams are resulting from that shame and guilt that others place wrongly on your shoulders. I'm no expert in the field, but that's the way I see it. Larry is probably quite right when he says that Little Adam is afraid. Little Adam needs reassurance from the grown up Adam that he'll be OK, but Big Adam is unsure of where to turn. That's where places like MS and seeing a professional Therapist can be of so much help.

We're here for you Adam, and will do whatever we can to be of help because we care about you just like you care about us.

Lots of love,

John
 
Shadow - That had to be a very difficult post. You are very brave! To repeat John, you have not wasted any space on here.... !

Please keep talking no matterr what you have to say!

Jim
 
larry you are exactly right , i did blame myself for jimmy and i do believe that everything that happened is punishment for my mistake .
 
Adam,

Again, well done. This is how you feel so this is what you have to say. It is so important to be HONEST with ourselves. Recovery can't be built on any other basis.

We will all tell you, of course, that all these things were NOT your fault, and that would be true. But that would also be something else. The issue now is how you FEEL. Once that is out on the table then you can begin to look at it and ask the crucial questions about whether these feelings are accurate or not.

Much love,
Larry
 
Adam, hang in there, and know that we're all here for you ok? Know that Jimmy loves you, and that he wants you to move on and live a decent life. Know that all of the horrible things that have happened were NOT your fault.

I think you made a very wise choice to talk about this, hard as it was (I can only imagine) to write it down! I think it would be a great asset for you to have a circle of friends, or just one friend at least, that you could confide in, that isn't just some text on a screen. Do you have ANY co-workers that you're tight with? I stongly suggest that you make or trust a friend that you can talk to in the same room rather than just come here, as good as all these guys are for eachother.

In looking at my past, I've come to realize that there were people that I could have confided with, and talked about issues that I was dealing with, (and still dealing with). I bet you could too!!
 
Adam,

none of this is crazy, I dont think so and it certainly is not trash.
I can relate to the room not feeling real, and the idea that god just wants to stand and watch!

I taught my mind to scream back at the nightmares, and constantly did it in my thoughts.
It worked after so long of constantly trying to dispose of the demons in my sleep.

I would like you to think back to the accident in a safe place and be grounded.
You were only a little boy then on a farm which holds great hazards for young kids.

It would be your fathers responsibility to ensure his sons' safety on the farm, not blame you for the outcome of a situation he put you both in.

Flashbacks can be difficult to control, especially as they can fragment in nightmares, and totally confuse your emotions.

I think that you may be living in a state of grief with all that happened, but it is good that you talk it out here.

ste
 
Adam,

Can I ask you if you are still seeing that T you spoke of in the past? More than anything else, I think what you need is strong professional local support.

Much love,
Larry
 
Adam,

I really have to concur with Larry on the need for professional support. It's not a thing to be ashamed of, but something that takes great courage to admit that you need help. If our car is broken, we take it to a mechanic. If our computer quits we go find a "geek" to work on it. If we have a broken ankle we go to the emergency room. It stands to reason that if our thinking has gotten messed up by some as**ole who abused us for his own gratification, there is no shame in going to counseling.

Hang in there, Bro.

Lots of love,

John
 
Adam,

John's post makes me see that I should have been more precise. Going to see a T doesn't mean we are THAT fucked up; it means that what was done to us was THAT fucked up.

I was scared out of my wits the first time I went to a T. Now I look forward to our sessions and I can easily admit that mine is helping me SO much. It's great.

Much love,
Larry
 
Adamn and all....

I'll share something that was shared with me when I was debating to see a T or not. I didn't listen to that person until 15yrs later... But, I now like others look forward to getting things out...

The quote: "going for help is brave!" "You are brave to face your fears and want to work through issues that only you know about." You are brave to want to get better, even though you may think your insane, and NO ONE will ever understand, and others will think your sick." You are brave!" "Don't stop going for help. Don't stop being brave."

- my thought -
I didn't understand truly what she meant until recently, and certainly did NOT feel brave when I started to go to T. And, I don't think that people who are not seeking help, are not brave. I think they are scared!

Also, I personally have a tendancy of "all or nothing" and go full speed ahead (like at recovery) then my mind hits the wall and I go onto overload. Then, I shut down and wait for my entire being to catch up to the pace of reading/writing/talking I've been doing. When I'm in that "dry" period of what seems to be not working on recovery, I can't help but think how much of a coward I am to not want to work on issues. In fact, that fact that is so not true. My mind simply needs to catch up to my brain (?).... So, don't think your a slacker if your on overload because you need a break. Take the break. But, come back!

Jim
 
Jim,

This is an incredibly important post! Please, cut it out and show it to your T.

Your T can help you to limit the cycle of swerving, going full speed, and then hitting the wall. Mine has so often told me, "No, slow down, we still have more work to do here." She has ALWAYS been right!

Much love,
Larry
 
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