Constructive Anger
Constructive Anger
- Thread starterWuamei
- Start date
Mike Church
Registrant
Victor:
If that is so, and I believe it is, why then does society still persist in perpetuating the lies about SA. I mean what do we have to do to get there gd attention. I am sick to death of hearing that we must have wanted it, we are sick, we deserve what we got or worse keep your mouth shut and don't rock the boat. They just don't want to discuss it. It makes them uncomfortable. What what in hell do they think it does to us; or don't they care.
I think that the only way is if we force feed them. By that I mean that MS rears up like angry wolves and howls so that they can no longer ignore us. Could it be, just maybe, that they are afraid a lot of them will be exposed for what they are.
Sorry. This really rang my bell hard.
If that is so, and I believe it is, why then does society still persist in perpetuating the lies about SA. I mean what do we have to do to get there gd attention. I am sick to death of hearing that we must have wanted it, we are sick, we deserve what we got or worse keep your mouth shut and don't rock the boat. They just don't want to discuss it. It makes them uncomfortable. What what in hell do they think it does to us; or don't they care.
I think that the only way is if we force feed them. By that I mean that MS rears up like angry wolves and howls so that they can no longer ignore us. Could it be, just maybe, that they are afraid a lot of them will be exposed for what they are.
Sorry. This really rang my bell hard.
Honestly Mike (And I am sorry to say this.),
I believe it is primarily a case of...
Laziness and uncomfortability about sex in general.
Where is the incentive for the lay person to be involved? "It didn't happen to me!" is the most common 'excuse' for a lack of motivation on most issues that are critical to a healthier society at large. Honestly, look at how difficult the issue of sexual molestation by priests in the Catholic church STILL does not command attention. It does of course by many Catholics finally but this doesn't only affect Catholics. Example: the child who attends a Catholic school though he is himself not Catholic. This is not an issue of the church or of priests. It is an issue of us all. We are forced to examine the fact that we stand by and do NOTHING as this heinous crime continues. It won't stop until we see; in my brother/my sister/myself!
My two cents... Hey buddy can ya spare a qwarta?
I believe it is primarily a case of...
Laziness and uncomfortability about sex in general.
Where is the incentive for the lay person to be involved? "It didn't happen to me!" is the most common 'excuse' for a lack of motivation on most issues that are critical to a healthier society at large. Honestly, look at how difficult the issue of sexual molestation by priests in the Catholic church STILL does not command attention. It does of course by many Catholics finally but this doesn't only affect Catholics. Example: the child who attends a Catholic school though he is himself not Catholic. This is not an issue of the church or of priests. It is an issue of us all. We are forced to examine the fact that we stand by and do NOTHING as this heinous crime continues. It won't stop until we see; in my brother/my sister/myself!
My two cents... Hey buddy can ya spare a qwarta?
godsrabbit
Registrant
who is standing by doing nothing?
i find that generalization disturbing...
are we doing nothing?
i find that generalization disturbing...
are we doing nothing?
A year ago, when the bishops met in Dallas., Mary Gail Frawley-O'Dea, PhD, gave this address . In it she points out the culpability of folks who never acted on their suspicions, like rectory maintenance workers or parish secretaries.
The reason we applaud the "courageous" individuals who ferret out the worst in our society and drag it into the light is because so many of us will not summon that courage. I don't even have the courage to tell my parents about being raped, never mind going public. Yet. So the folks who have the "sneaky suspicion something's not right" with Fr. X, or Scoutmaster Y, or whoever are just avoiding the pain as I am.
The difference is I am building the strength for the fight. One day I will be healed enough to stand up for the children who have no voice, and I will be man enough to withstand the scrutiny of those who might try to stop me. And I will be angry.
Remember what happened at the end of the Odyssey when "Outis" got back home and reclaimed his bow.
Thanks,
Joe
The reason we applaud the "courageous" individuals who ferret out the worst in our society and drag it into the light is because so many of us will not summon that courage. I don't even have the courage to tell my parents about being raped, never mind going public. Yet. So the folks who have the "sneaky suspicion something's not right" with Fr. X, or Scoutmaster Y, or whoever are just avoiding the pain as I am.
The difference is I am building the strength for the fight. One day I will be healed enough to stand up for the children who have no voice, and I will be man enough to withstand the scrutiny of those who might try to stop me. And I will be angry.
Remember what happened at the end of the Odyssey when "Outis" got back home and reclaimed his bow.
Thanks,
Joe
Sorry godsrabbit,
Didn't mean to offend but disturb? Yes I do mean to do that. We need to collectively YELL!!!!!! This is unacceptable.
I wouldn't say the members of this board are doing nothing but let's face it.
Yelling to ourselves will not get us heard. We need to make it loud and clear AS A SOCIETY... this is unacceptable behavior. Burying our heads in the sand hoping the problem will go away by itself while countless more succumb to this filthy abuse is UNACCEPTABLE!
ENOUGH! Unfortunately, only the strongest of us survivors can wear it on our sleeve EVERY SINGLE DAY in order to get the message heard by your sister, your clergyman, your co-worker, your grocery clerk, your boss. I AM my brothers keeper and I will NOT sit idley by while this continues!
BTW: I love the ID! Very cool choice!
Didn't mean to offend but disturb? Yes I do mean to do that. We need to collectively YELL!!!!!! This is unacceptable.
I wouldn't say the members of this board are doing nothing but let's face it.
Yelling to ourselves will not get us heard. We need to make it loud and clear AS A SOCIETY... this is unacceptable behavior. Burying our heads in the sand hoping the problem will go away by itself while countless more succumb to this filthy abuse is UNACCEPTABLE!
ENOUGH! Unfortunately, only the strongest of us survivors can wear it on our sleeve EVERY SINGLE DAY in order to get the message heard by your sister, your clergyman, your co-worker, your grocery clerk, your boss. I AM my brothers keeper and I will NOT sit idley by while this continues!
BTW: I love the ID! Very cool choice!
nope, I dont agree. Its not a casy of being lazy. Oh sure, like anything else, some people just DON'T care. Some ARE lazy. Some don't think it aplies to them.
But for most, its a matter simular to our own. It's simply uncomprehencable. And that makes it scary. We all know, (or are learning) how fear clouds our minds & effect our choises.
For the non-sexually abused, this is beyond their relm of reality. They can't believe (because of the terror it envokes) that this could happen. To most, there has to be a reason, some one or thing to blame. We live in a world here, where things are always explainable. Much of the simple mysteries in life are replaced with cold scientific facts. People, in general, expect our doctors to know everything and have the cure on hand. So, when it comes to sexual abuse, there has to be a definable cause (& cure). And if the cause is not found, or understood, then It must have been our choise. You know the rest.
The world is in denile. We are its voice. In brealing the cycle, we are its concious.
....Blacken....
But for most, its a matter simular to our own. It's simply uncomprehencable. And that makes it scary. We all know, (or are learning) how fear clouds our minds & effect our choises.
For the non-sexually abused, this is beyond their relm of reality. They can't believe (because of the terror it envokes) that this could happen. To most, there has to be a reason, some one or thing to blame. We live in a world here, where things are always explainable. Much of the simple mysteries in life are replaced with cold scientific facts. People, in general, expect our doctors to know everything and have the cure on hand. So, when it comes to sexual abuse, there has to be a definable cause (& cure). And if the cause is not found, or understood, then It must have been our choise. You know the rest.
The world is in denile. We are its voice. In brealing the cycle, we are its concious.
....Blacken....
Wow! 
Well, I wanted to stir up some righteous anger (as no doubt Mic did). Looks like it worked! So far. The key is that this anger be channeled & used constructively to do something about the plight of the male survivor. (On that click my sound link in my signature statement area!)
People are uncomfortable about sex, and they are scared of it. Especially when it becomes abusive.
What's important is first that we determine we are going to do something about. Next, we determine what we are going to do. Finally, we with determination DO IT!
No we're not doing nothing, if we're talking about male survivors. But what about the rest of the world, the ones who make & enforce the laws, the ones who we need for medical care & who make decisions about the costs, the family & friends who need to know, and those who are still victims & not yet survivors?
We need to for their sake & ours to speak up &
"act up!" Be the courageous ones who will make a difference. Be our brothers & sisters keeper.
Man I love Joe's determination:
"There is a time for anger..."
Of course everyones time for anger, as well as for action, is different, and comes in different stages as well. The point is that we must all do what we can to help one another to survive & to thrive, and to make sure there are no more victims of SA as much as we can.
Yes, I am quite serious!
Victor
Well, I wanted to stir up some righteous anger (as no doubt Mic did). Looks like it worked! So far. The key is that this anger be channeled & used constructively to do something about the plight of the male survivor. (On that click my sound link in my signature statement area!)
IMHOFWIW, it is both of these things, and more.
People are uncomfortable about sex, and they are scared of it. Especially when it becomes abusive.
Yep could be. 'Fraid so. Or they're afraid it could happen to them. Or that it did!
What's important is first that we determine we are going to do something about. Next, we determine what we are going to do. Finally, we with determination DO IT!
No we're not doing nothing, if we're talking about male survivors. But what about the rest of the world, the ones who make & enforce the laws, the ones who we need for medical care & who make decisions about the costs, the family & friends who need to know, and those who are still victims & not yet survivors?
We need to for their sake & ours to speak up &
"act up!" Be the courageous ones who will make a difference. Be our brothers & sisters keeper.
Man I love Joe's determination:
"There is a time for anger..."
Of course everyones time for anger, as well as for action, is different, and comes in different stages as well. The point is that we must all do what we can to help one another to survive & to thrive, and to make sure there are no more victims of SA as much as we can.
Blacken, that is one for the books. In fact I would be honored to use that in my book--unless you've got one of your own planned.
Yes, I am quite serious!
Don't be sorry that was the idea my friend.
The squeaky wheels gets the grease, and the howling wolves get justice! AWWWHHOOOOOOYEAH!
Victor
godsrabbit
Registrant
bless you marc...
i am quite disturbed already thank you...i do not believe for myself that yelling is of much use...
righteous angers tears down to build up...if that is what some need to do, i respect that...i also hope those who do not agree that stirring up hornets do not feel stigmatized by those who wish to....there is enough pressure on all of us...talk or not talk, disclose or not disclose, confront or not confront, yell or not yell....
i think it is important that everyone understands that just because a child is tall does not mean he should be pressured to play basketball if what he really wants is to be a chess champion. just because we are survivors, does not mean we all must be righteous advocates either...i have enough self-esteem problems without feeling like i am not doing enough for other survivors of abuse by keeping my mouth shut...shame can come from all sides...
i am sorry, i am really speaking out of turn and i do not mean to be disruptive. i am very wounded about being made to talk and very disappointed with myself for not being stronger to help others...
but aside from all of that, perhaps it just is not in my nature to "yell"....
heavens, i am rambling...forgive me...i would delete this post, but it does not seem i would be doing myself any service if i refuse to speak up...
You post some very important points godsrabbit which is why I chose to declare earlier,
godsrabbit... NEVER feel any shame, embarassment, or weakness regarding your voice. Me railing against the establishment is pretty much one of the things that I was BORN to do!
That is 'Marc', that is not 'godsrabbit'. There are plenty of other 'Marcs' out there I am sure... This is OUR rally. IMHO, it is society at large who needs to deal with this. NOT survivors. Unfortunately in our 'society' they prefer to bury their heads in the sand so it is left to those of us hurting the most to do what we can. We've been traumatized too much already without having to lay our heads out on the chopping block. However, again that is what 'I' do.
Thanks for speaking your heart and mind.
Welcome again to the pack!
.
godsrabbit... NEVER feel any shame, embarassment, or weakness regarding your voice. Me railing against the establishment is pretty much one of the things that I was BORN to do!
That is 'Marc', that is not 'godsrabbit'. There are plenty of other 'Marcs' out there I am sure... This is OUR rally. IMHO, it is society at large who needs to deal with this. NOT survivors. Unfortunately in our 'society' they prefer to bury their heads in the sand so it is left to those of us hurting the most to do what we can. We've been traumatized too much already without having to lay our heads out on the chopping block. However, again that is what 'I' do.
Thanks for speaking your heart and mind.
Welcome again to the pack!
godsrabbit
Registrant
marc,
sorry to be so picky...i guess we all have our salted spots...
your said: "...only the strongest of us survivors can wear it on our sleeve EVERY SINGLE DAY"
good heavens...maybe this, to me, is waving a red flag in front of the bull because it gets me in a place where i say: strength comes in many forms...and that may be your idea of "strong" marc, but that is not my meaning of "strong" and what about all those people who have not developed a definition for themselves? do you see how threatening such a statement is?
i am sure you do not mean it the way i am reading into it and so i am sorry to belabor this, but i think sensitivity to language is one thing all survivors struggle with: a phrase like this very possibly indicates to some people that if you are not wearing it on your sleeve you are not the strongest, and so then must be "weak" and whatever else negative connotation is implied by not being included among the strongest.
forgive me...i just think inclusive language is really important...as you said, we are together in this...raging against the machine is one thing, but raging against the machine and imply that those who do not are "not the strongest" is another...
and i concede that we all have different strengths...i am a weak human being, period. physically, emotionally, intellectually...but i am so hard on myself, and many others are too...i do not think the challenge is healthy...
sorry...i am not trying to argumentative...i will stop...
sorry to be so picky...i guess we all have our salted spots...
your said: "...only the strongest of us survivors can wear it on our sleeve EVERY SINGLE DAY"
good heavens...maybe this, to me, is waving a red flag in front of the bull because it gets me in a place where i say: strength comes in many forms...and that may be your idea of "strong" marc, but that is not my meaning of "strong" and what about all those people who have not developed a definition for themselves? do you see how threatening such a statement is?
i am sure you do not mean it the way i am reading into it and so i am sorry to belabor this, but i think sensitivity to language is one thing all survivors struggle with: a phrase like this very possibly indicates to some people that if you are not wearing it on your sleeve you are not the strongest, and so then must be "weak" and whatever else negative connotation is implied by not being included among the strongest.
forgive me...i just think inclusive language is really important...as you said, we are together in this...raging against the machine is one thing, but raging against the machine and imply that those who do not are "not the strongest" is another...
and i concede that we all have different strengths...i am a weak human being, period. physically, emotionally, intellectually...but i am so hard on myself, and many others are too...i do not think the challenge is healthy...
sorry...i am not trying to argumentative...i will stop...
Godsrabbit,
I can see the point you make, and I hope you were not offended by my earlier post where I wrote of gathering strength.
I suppose there are different kinds of strengths for different tasks. I desire the kind of strength Marc mentions. I know I will have it, if I keep working. To me it simply means that having cut loose the shame I never deserved, I will have found the strength to speak out against this particular ugliness in our society.
For now I have the strength to continue trying to heal. I thank each of you for helping me find that strength and nuture it. It grows with and within me.
Thanks,
Joe
godsrabbit
Registrant
sorry...i really am not offended...
i am perhaps over cautious...that is all...
i will be quiet and try to learn something...
i am perhaps over cautious...that is all...
i will be quiet and try to learn something...
Godsrabbit,
I certainly don't want to silence anyone, far from it. Please feel free to speak your mind to me at any time.
I just felt that I didn't want to offend you with my post about "strength" which talked mostly about the same "strength" Marc mentions. That kind of strength means a lot to me, because I don't know if a boy was hurt last night because I have been a coward, even now in recovery. I struggle with my right to recover at my chosen pace and the possibility that some other innocent will be looking for this site tomorrow.
That is how I feel about me and the things I want to do. It has no validity outside what I give it for myself.
Thanks,
Joe
I certainly don't want to silence anyone, far from it. Please feel free to speak your mind to me at any time.
I just felt that I didn't want to offend you with my post about "strength" which talked mostly about the same "strength" Marc mentions. That kind of strength means a lot to me, because I don't know if a boy was hurt last night because I have been a coward, even now in recovery. I struggle with my right to recover at my chosen pace and the possibility that some other innocent will be looking for this site tomorrow.
That is how I feel about me and the things I want to do. It has no validity outside what I give it for myself.
Thanks,
Joe
godsrabbit
Registrant
thank you joe...it is not you...
i have a real problem with anger...i understand where it comes from, but perhaps it is a bit overwhelming to be around so much of what seems "hostility" to me...i had this same difficulty in group therapy...
i am sure it is my problem...i just am not sure what i can do about it...my impulse is to want to "fix" everything and i know that your healing and marc's healing and everyone else's healing is not my own and even on many levels none of my business...
i may to be empathetic to deal with this...sorry...i will try to toughen my skin...
i have a real problem with anger...i understand where it comes from, but perhaps it is a bit overwhelming to be around so much of what seems "hostility" to me...i had this same difficulty in group therapy...
i am sure it is my problem...i just am not sure what i can do about it...my impulse is to want to "fix" everything and i know that your healing and marc's healing and everyone else's healing is not my own and even on many levels none of my business...
i may to be empathetic to deal with this...sorry...i will try to toughen my skin...
That's a good point well made there Godsrabbit. and I mean no offence to Marc who made a good point as well.
Reading this excellent topic made me fully realise that we just use our strengths in different ways.
Some of us shout and bang on the tables, and others go about their lives quietly, same strength - different ways.
The origional question raised the problem of banging tables and getting the word out to those who haven't heard, and I think that that because it's "SEXUAL" abuse it's pushed back and ignored.
Look at how high profile Physical Abuse charities are, and how much money they raise.
Sex is still sleazy for most people.
How long has the Gay & Lesbian community been fighting for true recognition ?
How about Clinics for STD's compared to other diseases ?
The list goes on, and 'liberation' isn't in sight yet I don't think.
The media and society still hold such repressed views about all kinds of sexual topics, unless two Holywood stars are shagging each other then it's front page news !
Here in the UK the chain of Anne Summers shops ( similar to Victoria's Secrets ) wanted to advertise for staff at the Government run 'Department of Employment', they wanted shopgirls - not prostitutes.
But the DoE said "NO" - because selling racy lingerie in smart hight street stores was part of the "Sex industry"
Anne Summers took them to court and won, and rightly so.
With that sort of attitude around what chance have we got of telling our stories "like it is" ?
Dave
godsrabbit
) I believe this is also a temporary issue however. Do you have difficulty with confrontation? With anger? By your own words, yes you do. You are not by any manner of speaking a 'slave' to it however. With your healing will come strength and with that strength, I would hope a sense of responsibility. For it is this and only this ability to act which can save others. As I mentioned earlier, I do believe that I am my brothers keeper. I choose to carry the burden at this time and I wrap myself in that flag and comfort myself with the warmth of these convictions. Again... my choice. Somewhat martyristic and sh^t who's asking me? No one... except the millions or more crying little boys and girls that I refuse silence on behalf of.
I realize that I tend to be a very dominant personality sometimes. I have even been told before by some that they have felt 'steam rolled' by me and so I am aware of this though often unaware when it is occurring.
It is because I do have passion. It is my salvation. Sometimes the ONLY thing that gets me through is my conviction in what I believe is 'right' and my ability to charge into the windmills. Foolish sometimes but again, that is me. Occasionally it is best for me to temper that and this is where someone like you has strength that I do not (Called restraint). I ask for people like you to help me to find a balance somewhere in the middle of this duality. Understand?
Joe (Outis)
You honor me that you believe I have any validity in my words.
I often lose faith quickly in my self and in my beliefs. Though I may know that pragmatically, what I believe and what I say is correct, I lose steam in the fight quickly. I'm afraid after a nervous breakdown that I suffered many years ago while trying to be a 'gay' activist, I became a ghost at the hands of the very community I sought to protect and nuture. Without form or substance. No offense to the gay and lesbian community but we can be a canibalistic lot. That is to say, we eat our own. I believe that it is at least partially because of my effort to be so inclusive, as godsrabbit earlier mentioned, that the breakdown occurred. I became highly sensitive to ANY confrontation after that for many years. I was left personality-wise a confrontation eunuch.
In lieu of the above, I would claim victim status if only this one time in my life because my body and worse my mind TRULY betrayed me. So I have had a great fear of another breakdown since then though none has ever occuerred and the panic attacks I grew up with have all but disappeared.
Again, thank you for believing in me.
P.S. godsrabbit, don't you dare back down now!
You are already becoming a very valuable member of the pack and if I become too intimidating I shall back down because including you on the site and allowing you a voice is more important to me than anything else. I WON'T eat my own.
and yet...
We can not have it both ways. Yes godsrabbit, I believe that you are weak at this time in your life. (Speaking my mind and not attacking.
) I believe this is also a temporary issue however. Do you have difficulty with confrontation? With anger? By your own words, yes you do. You are not by any manner of speaking a 'slave' to it however. With your healing will come strength and with that strength, I would hope a sense of responsibility. For it is this and only this ability to act which can save others. As I mentioned earlier, I do believe that I am my brothers keeper. I choose to carry the burden at this time and I wrap myself in that flag and comfort myself with the warmth of these convictions. Again... my choice. Somewhat martyristic and sh^t who's asking me? No one... except the millions or more crying little boys and girls that I refuse silence on behalf of.I realize that I tend to be a very dominant personality sometimes. I have even been told before by some that they have felt 'steam rolled' by me and so I am aware of this though often unaware when it is occurring.
It is because I do have passion. It is my salvation. Sometimes the ONLY thing that gets me through is my conviction in what I believe is 'right' and my ability to charge into the windmills. Foolish sometimes but again, that is me. Occasionally it is best for me to temper that and this is where someone like you has strength that I do not (Called restraint). I ask for people like you to help me to find a balance somewhere in the middle of this duality. Understand?
Joe (Outis)
You honor me that you believe I have any validity in my words.
I often lose faith quickly in my self and in my beliefs. Though I may know that pragmatically, what I believe and what I say is correct, I lose steam in the fight quickly. I'm afraid after a nervous breakdown that I suffered many years ago while trying to be a 'gay' activist, I became a ghost at the hands of the very community I sought to protect and nuture. Without form or substance. No offense to the gay and lesbian community but we can be a canibalistic lot. That is to say, we eat our own. I believe that it is at least partially because of my effort to be so inclusive, as godsrabbit earlier mentioned, that the breakdown occurred. I became highly sensitive to ANY confrontation after that for many years. I was left personality-wise a confrontation eunuch.
In lieu of the above, I would claim victim status if only this one time in my life because my body and worse my mind TRULY betrayed me. So I have had a great fear of another breakdown since then though none has ever occuerred and the panic attacks I grew up with have all but disappeared.
Again, thank you for believing in me.
P.S. godsrabbit, don't you dare back down now!
You are already becoming a very valuable member of the pack and if I become too intimidating I shall back down because including you on the site and allowing you a voice is more important to me than anything else. I WON'T eat my own.
godsrabbit
Registrant
precisely lloydy, thank you for recognizing that.
please let me clarify...i am not contradicting myself...i say i am weak because i believe all human beings are weak...i am speaking in terms of comparing to a higher power...and i am not weak at this time in the way you think i am...nor irresponsible....and you do not know me to know whether i am weak, and you do not frighten me, and i will not be baited into a argument (and i am not being defensive, i am just telling you that i disagree with you)...
if i leave it is because i have made a prayerful decision to do so for my own health and wellness...not for anything anyone says here...and thank you for not eating others...P.S. godsrabbit, don't you dare back down now!
You are already becoming a very valuable member of the pack and if I become too intimidating I shall back down because including you on the site and allowing you a voice is more important to me than anything else. I WON'T eat my own.
i do not disrespect your feelings marc, i take issue with your word choices because they seem disregarding of others' feelings. you are being an alpha male in the wolf pack and some of us who have been dominated by other men our whole lives, do not appreciate it...
that is not to say i do not love you (like a brother, if i must qualify it)...just to say: ease up on the shift, you are stripping the gears.
It is becoming apparant that I am coming across as hostile which is not my intent. I'll choose for the sake of keeping the peace to discontinue further discourse on this topic.
I apologize if I have offended you godsrabbit.
Again, welcome to the site. Please do stay, grow and teach brother.
I apologize if I have offended you godsrabbit.
Again, welcome to the site. Please do stay, grow and teach brother.
godsrabbit
Registrant
i am not offended marc, bless you...
we have very different ways of looking at the world...i hope between the two of us we can find some balance...
and i apologize if it seems i got my hackles up...no, i do not like "confrontation" it is not personally useful to me...
thank you for your patience....
we have very different ways of looking at the world...i hope between the two of us we can find some balance...
and i apologize if it seems i got my hackles up...no, i do not like "confrontation" it is not personally useful to me...
thank you for your patience....