Consequences of Premature Sexuality

A trauma informed therapist will understand but even therapists who offer services around child sexual abuse won't necessarily understand all the implications. That is why it is so important for the message to get out that trauma produces real fragmentation in lives. The men here understand that, which is one of the reasons this is such an oasis for all of us.
 
MO-Survivor, thank you for posting that excerpt from Chapter 8 which clearly describes much of what I have experienced throughout my life! I never heard of this book until I saw your post. I have seen two different therapists recently and neither one, as far as I know, are aware of this book which appears to be a godsend to me! I want to get it - so I will see if it is available on Amazon. Ironically, I am in the process of re-writing my own life story regarding my various childhood traumas and their impact upon my life.... which continues to this day at age 68. My goodness, this chapter 8 seems to have been written by someone who knows me better than I know myself... thanks again, MO-Survivor
 

MO-Survivor

Greeter
Staff member
MO-Survivor, thank you for posting that excerpt from Chapter 8 which clearly describes much of what I have experienced throughout my life! I never heard of this book until I saw your post. I have seen two different therapists recently and neither one, as far as I know, are aware of this book which appears to be a godsend to me! I want to get it - so I will see if it is available on Amazon. Ironically, I am in the process of re-writing my own life story regarding my various childhood traumas and their impact upon my life.... which continues to this day at age 68. My goodness, this chapter 8 seems to have been written by someone who knows me better than I know myself... thanks again, MO-Survivor
Happy to share, and I'm really glad it was significantly insightful for you. I read that chapter and believe me, I thought, "This is so spot-on for myself, and for so much of what I have read on MS from guys." Had to share it. I did get my copy on Amazon, so hopefully they have it in stock. Appreciate the feedback IA!
 
Happy to share, and I'm really glad it was significantly insightful for you. I read that chapter and believe me, I thought, "This is so spot-on for myself, and for so much of what I have read on MS from guys." Had to share it. I did get my copy on Amazon, so hopefully they have it in stock. Appreciate the feedback IA!
Just got the book yesterday from Amazon! Traumasexuality by Peter John Schouten... am only on page 39.... and I a survivor of multiple male and female perpetrated rape/molestation/abuse primarily when I was a young child, but also at other points during my young life... my immediate response is that this is an excellent book with which I immediately identified... Thank you so much... From the book's intro section: Traumasexuality - Through sexual abuse you become traumasexual. Traumasexuality is the invisible driving force behind addictions, behind perpetration, behind domestic violence, behind divorce, behind sex addiction, behind entreprenesurship in the sex industry, behind visiting prostitutes, behind gender issues, behind confused sexuality, behind criminal behavior. I have often had similar thoughts... and here they are in print - so I don't feel so alone in having had similar thoughts due to what I have seen in my own life.... I simply offer them because my life has shown me several family and friends who are impacted in ways listed here and who I know to be "traumasexuals" even those the people I refer to don't recall any such violations, I do. Thanks again for recommending this book. I look forward to learning more... one step at a time because, although it is extremely well written, I fully expect that I may be triggered while reading it... so I will proceed with caution. Thanks again!
 

Inturn

Registrant
Traumasexuality - Through sexual abuse you become traumasexual. Traumasexuality is the invisible driving force behind addictions, behind perpetration, behind domestic violence, behind divorce, behind sex addiction, behind entreprenesurship in the sex industry, behind visiting prostitutes, behind gender issues, behind confused sexuality, behind criminal behavior.

Thanks for this. I too will be reading this book as part of the intro section speaks to me in volumes. I do recognize I was impacted by an invisible driving force which is being exposed now through therapy. It's painful to do this but so worth it.
 

Dunc6932

Registrant
A trauma informed therapist will understand but even therapists who offer services around child sexual abuse won't necessarily understand all the implications. That is why it is so important for the message to get out that trauma produces real fragmentation in lives. The men here understand that, which is one of the reasons this is such an oasis for all of us.
A trauma informed therapist will understand but even therapists who offer services around child sexual abuse won't necessarily understand all the implications. That is why it is so important for the message to get out that trauma produces real fragmentation in lives. The men here understand that, which is one of the reasons this is such an oasis for all of us.
It was devastating to read the summary of the Chapter 8 notes above. Repetitive images and events of something that happened over 35 years ago have literally played out in my mind, what has to be in the neighborhood of several hundred thousand times, if not more. I saw this thread after a zoom session with a T. I had mentioned briefly the repetitive nature of the thoughts, but am now realizing that they have been more omnipresent, and that I have had them to much more of a degree than I ever could have imagined. My helplessness (the way I felt) is one of the driving forces behind the whole constant revisiting thing. Every time I think I can come out of the situation unscathed (having fended it off) and not be molested, my thoughts ensure the same outcome. Why have I constantly replicated the feeling of helplessness? That’s what has been devastating.
 
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MO-Survivor

Greeter
Staff member
Oh Dunc... reading your post made me so sad. I'm so sorry man. I never wanted that summary to hit anyone so hard. And more than that, I am so sorry for what happened to you 35 years ago. The deeper I get into things with my T, the deeper I see the affect was on my life - as a boy, and even up to now. I'm sorry that the memories of what happened are playing over and over in your head. So many guys here can relate to you with respect to memories flooding back, becoming overwhelming and indeed - devastating. I cannot actually relate to that (I had recall since I was a kid) so I can't even offer you anything in the way of help to stem them from playing over and over. Did your T give you any helpful ideas?

But most of all man, just know - like Visitor said - there are hundreds of us who are for you and who want to see you make it thru this time. Please let us know if there is anything we can do to help. And please do know - there is hope for things to get better. Definitely.
 

Dunc6932

Registrant
So I dug out the book, "Traumasexuality," again this weekend. Chapter 8 in the book is titled: "Consequences of the Damage Caused by Premature Sexuality." I found it to be extremely insightful / helpful, and the author states it is the key chapter in the book. I will warn you - the content can be TRIGGERING, so please read below with that in mind. Some of the triggering is caused by the testimonials in the book, which I don't have below in my notes - so hopefully it won't trigger but will only be helpful. As an aside, I have actually held the attitude recently that I mostly welcome triggers since they make me feel and think more deeply than I would normally. They can help me uncover the frozen kid within me; because accessing those feelings can be difficult for me, and I know without accessing those feelings and the frozen parts of me, healing isn't possible. That said, I'm not encouraging anyone else to trigger themselves. I'm only expressing my own recent thoughts about triggers. You have to know yourself and what is okay and what is not.

What I like most in this book is:
  • The author is a CSA survivor, who counseled thousands of men who were CSA survivors
  • The book lists out the impacts of CSA on our lives - in the many varied forms they can take. You can definitely identify with what he talks about
  • The author presents things in a very non-judgemental (no condemnation) way because he presents matter-of-fact: "You were not aware this was happening. It just happened while you were growing up"
  • There is hope written all throughout the book. He helps bring understanding to why we think and do some of the things we do, with a belief (backed by his experiences with thousands of men) that it is possible to heal and recover by addressing those parts of us inside that are frozen and / or were not allowed to develop when we were young
The next chapter deals with, "Repairing the Damage." I look forward to reading it.

Below are the notes I took on Chapter 8. I hope you find them helpful.
------------------------------
Chapter 8: Consequences of the Damage Caused by Premature Sexuality
Introduction
  • Traumasexuality =
    • A temporary sexual identity with 3 important characteristics:
      • Internal conflict in sexual desires
      • Active victimhood
      • Chronic questions concerning sexual and / or sex identity (this possible temporary identity can last a lifetime)
Internal Conflict
  • Internal Conflict = the struggle that plays out between your own sexuality and the imprint of the sexuality of the perpetrator
    • You live with two sex drives: your own, and that of the other who has established himself / herself in you, but it feels like they both come from you
    • You can live in extremes:
      • Your own sexuality is dominant. However, even in this, you have a chronic feeling that, ‘there is something wrong with me,’ because you cannot give yourself completely to another in sexuality
      • The perpetrator’s sexuality is dominant. Your own development stops when the abuse starts
        • This is most common when the abuse occurs at an early age
        • You act out and repeat the abuse without knowing it
        • You have rigid sexual patterns and never manage to progress to a real relationship
      • There is a third possibility: the zero point – where you live halfway between the two extremes. This creates a vacuum of asexuality and sexual apathy
        • This is dangerous because it can create: apathy, powerlessness, depression, or worse
Active Victimhood
  • Active Victimhood = the urge to repeat the sexual trauma and the painful struggle that accompanies it
    • Without being aware, you have a long-term relationship with the perpetrator and the presence of a third person is always felt in your relationships
      • This sexuality derails your own sex drive / life
      • Partners do not understand the compulsive behaviors with addictive elements
      • This usually leads to sexuality that doesn’t have a satisfying end
      • This is very difficult to deal with and can lead to hopelessness, because there isn’t anyone to talk to who will listen or can understand
    • The perpetrator’s influence always comes into play and always wins (implied outside this statement is: unless / until you are able to address your past CSA)
  • Active victimhood = the drive to repeat the sexual trauma is an attempt to process the trauma and regain control over what you have lost
  • This pattern will repeat and repeat until you have dealt with your sexual abuse
  • You have lost your own sexual control, creativity, and inventiveness, and you hardly even notice you are repeating the abuse. But you ask yourself why you are doing the things you are doing
  • A pattern can always be reconstructed from active victimhood:
    • You have a reason to act out sexually – usually you feel alone
    • There is a subsequent sexual event
    • There is a conclusion, and you are not typically satisfied or happy with it
  • Repeating the abuse can occur in three variations (not all mutually exclusive). You do this without realizing what you are doing:
    • Repetition as a victim
    • Repetition as a perpetrator (note: this doesn't mean you become a perpetrator, unless you have fully embraced this idea)
    • Repetition as a witness
  • Repetition as a victim:
    • You repeat your abuse with yourself in the position of the victim
    • The focus is on the person who has caused your trauma
    • You seek the same type of perpetrator and perform the same sexual actions as your CSA
    • Repetition as a victim includes the idea of Projections:
      • Projections = attaching characteristics of the perpetrator to someone else and then attribute the same control to that person
      • You see people and believe they want sex with you
      • You also sexualize contact with someone, and sex and intimacy become one in the same in your approach. However, intimacy is usually missing
    • Several things that can also happen that helps drive repetition as a victim:
      • You saw the perpetrator as a father figure
      • The abuse became something deemed natural and pleasant
      • You became addicted to relationships because the rational side of your brain no longer worked, and you live in a perpetual state of being in love to keep your feelings occupied and absent of the painful side of the abuse
      • You desire to engage in impossible relationships. Example: a homosexual man seeking contact with heterosexual or married men
      • You long to be specially chosen
  • Repetition as perpetrator:
    • This variation of repeating the abuse involves introjections instead of projections
      • Introjections = you include the perpetrator’s characteristics / behaviors into your own and consider them your own. You don’t realize this occurs, it happens automatically
      • Introjections are facilitated by the fact that all boys need a masculine role model. And for many boys, they have no choice but to take the perpetrator as their masculine example
    • Three variations of pepetratorship:
      • False perpetratorship = you believe you were the perpetrator / initiator in your relationship with the perpetrator. You believe you hold sole responsibility – usually facilitated by believing there was reciprocity in your abuse (your perp gave you things, you agreed, etc.)
      • Completely embracing pepetratorship = you believe you are the same as the pepetrator, that sexual experiences (even with children) are natural, and you have no access to your conscience. You can no longer feel
      • Rejecting perpetratorship = you do not want to be like the perpetrator. This can lead you to never wanting to expose your masculine sex drive and you tend to emasculate yourself and want to remain a boy forever
        • You can reject / despise your own adult body
        • You can have such disgust that you avoid orgasm because of the identification with your perpetrator and instances of sexual abuse
        • This can drive men who become fathers to fear becoming a perpetrator to their own children, and this can prevent making healthy connections with their children
  • Repetition as a witness:
    • The deep craving for a witness – the desire to be seen and for someone to stop the abuse, can drive repetition as a witness
    • This can manifest itself through exposing yourself when it is not appropriate
    • You can take on the role of a voyeur when repeating as a witness. Looking at pornography and unknowingly looking for sexual scenes similar to your own abuse is one way this can occur
Identity Questions
  • Identity questions are rooted in the dualism of: your own sexuality vs. the pepetrator’s sexual imprint, and of masculine identity and sexual identity
  • Sexual identity can be:
    • Homo-hetero
    • Homosexual
    • Paedosexual
  • Homo-hetero
    • Usually there is the question: “Am I homosexual?”
      • This question relates to questions about masculinity / femininity
      • This question relates to passive / active behavior
      • In culture, usually: Homo = feminine = passive, and Hetero = masculine = active. This drives some of these questions
    • “… you have to realize that it is not the homosexual force or lust that presents itself but the repetition of a sexually attractive trauma that replays itself in a homosexual context.”
    • There are typically three (predictable) responses:
      • A group of men that longs for and enjoys homosexual contact
      • A group of men afraid of homosexual contact and avoid it
      • A group of men disgusted by homosexual behavior
  • Homosexual
    • Your own homosexuality as a boy is confused through an abuse experience with a man
    • You also might:
      • Be convinced you are homosexual and later it appears you are not at all
      • Find that others believe you are homosexual while you are certain you are not
  • Paedosexual
    • Some % of men find they desire sex with a boy and do not understand why they want this, and the idea is (usually) abhorrent to them
    • This is driven because the abuse drives the frozen and authentic kids into the background. They are waiting and waiting to come back into your life
      • In your search to find yourself again (the frozen and authentic parts) you can look outside yourself for the lost parts of yourself
        • These are projections towards children or young people who represent the lost parts of you
        • You will look for boys you see something of yourself in: you can see they are damaged, and you want to help them recover
        • Because what is inside you is not yet whole and still hurts, you attempt to heal outside yourself – in others
          • This can take on a legitimate life, such as helping kids through youth work, but could also take on a sexual aspect that is destructive
    • Paedophilia as a sexual orientation does not exist. Instead the feelings relate to the survivor themselves, in an attempt to externally heal themselves (which will never work)
      • Seeking out boys is seeking to find what you lost in ‘not feeling’ anything. You are trying to undo your own division (the division of the frozen and authentic parts from the rest of you) and heal the pain of the separation
    • Other characteristics that identify this:
      • Looking for boys of the same age as when their own abuse first took place
      • Looking for boys who looked like themselves at the age of their own abuse
      • Getting stuck on an age – typically the same age as the abuse
      • You can also look for adult men where you see the damaged child in them, and you attempt to help them recover the lost parts of themselves
    • These attempts to find and heal the lost parts of yourself, externally (whether in boys or men) is impossible
      • The only alternative is looking inside yourself instead of outside yourself
      • You must turn yourself inside out. Then you will see your own division and decry the perpetrator living in you, and you will bring back to life the lost frozen and authentic kids in yourself – who need your help
    • You can also seek girls the age you were when you were first abused
      • Searching images of young girls later in life is an attempt to return to the moment in which you still had control over your own sexual development
  • Other questions / thoughts about sexual identity
    • Sexual abuse prevents you from achieving a complete masculine identity
    • Anal sexual abuse can cause several things in addition to other abuse:
      • You have two bodily areas associated with the sexual abuse instead of one which can drive additional fears & behaviors
      • It can cause you to adopt a passive sexual role
      • You can question your own masculinity because of what happened, and your inability to stop it. You can suffer with questions surrounding femininity, and that can then elicit behaviors accordingly:
        • Dressing as a woman
        • Behaving as a woman
        • Seducing a man in the role of a woman
This was devastating to read and learn about how my mind has replayed my feeling of helplessness to my abuser for over 35 years or so. Repetitive replay over a 35 year span to rationalize something to a different ending where I am spared the abuse, but it ends up the same outcome. How many people do they think do this?
 

Dolphin42

Registrant
@Dunc6932 none of your abuse was your fault. Self-compassion and understanding of our limits as kids in extreme trauma situations they don't comprehend is a way out of the obsessing over changing history, which can't be changed. Maybe you could find forgiveness for your younger self?

I'm sorry you're stuck in a thought loop on your abuse, but there is hope.
 

Dolphin42

Registrant
This was devastating to read and learn about how my mind has replayed my feeling of helplessness to my abuser for over 35 years or so. Repetitive replay over a 35 year span to rationalize something to a different ending where I am spared the abuse, but it ends up the same outcome. How many people do they think do this?

I had a problem when I first integrated my memories of abuse. Seeing other kids in public would remind me of my abuse, and then I would become very ashamed, just like you. Breaking mental habits is hard work, but I forgot my abuse for 40+ years and only went through this for a month or so, and not the 35 years of practice that you have.

Even forgotten, though, people can re-enact their childhood abuse as an adult in the same attempt to rewrite their history. But it doesn't work. That past is fixed. I did this too, a lot immediately prior to remembering my abuse, like the memories were refusing to stay locked up anymore and forced their way out.
 

Dunc6932

Registrant
@Dunc6932 none of your abuse was your fault. Self-compassion and understanding of our limits as kids in extreme trauma situations they don't comprehend is a way out of the obsessing over changing history, which can't be changed. Maybe you could find forgiveness for your younger self?

I'm sorry you're stuck in a thought loop on your abuse, but there is hope.

Is that what it is commonly referred to as a “thought loop”? Do many experience this? I literally have replayed this numerous times per day over three and a half decades. I am seeking help. It is a tough process.
 

Dolphin42

Registrant
@Dunc6932 Do you have access to a therapist?

Idea: Rubber band on a wrist, snap it every time the thought loop starts.
And other distraction techniques.
You will feel so much more in control the first time you realize there are ways to "snap" your way out of it. It will take practice.
There are likely many other techniques for breaking obsessive thoughts.
Yes, I have these, but not 35 years long about my abuse. I have lifetime replays of older sibling abuse (non-sexual) that pop up occasionally. Sometimes these are also called "intrusive thoughts". There are techniques for this too.

I hope this helps.
 

Dunc6932

Registrant
Oh Dunc... reading your post made me so sad. I'm so sorry man. I never wanted that summary to hit anyone so hard. And more than that, I am so sorry for what happened to you 35 years ago. The deeper I get into things with my T, the deeper I see the affect was on my life - as a boy, and even up to now. I'm sorry that the memories of what happened are playing over and over in your head. So many guys here can relate to you with respect to memories flooding back, becoming overwhelming and indeed - devastating. I cannot actually relate to that (I had recall since I was a kid) so I can't even offer you anything in the way of help to stem them from playing over and over. Did your T give you any helpful ideas?

But most of all man, just know - like Visitor said - there are hundreds of us who are for you and who want to see you make it thru this time. Please let us know if there is anything we can do to help. And please do know - there is hope for things to get better. Definitely.

You did nothing wrong by posting. It was just my realization that I have replicated the thought perpetually and constantly, and have looked online to replicate what my abuser looked like physically, as well as imitating the helplessness I went through. It’s just humiliating to admit.
 
That is a good distraction technique another I use a lot is called the Butterfly Tap/Hug. Google it and watch a few video's of it. You can do it anywhere and no one even notices. I have a friend that uses a rubber band on her wrist and sometimes when I see her I know anxiety has been after her as her wrist is red from snapping that rubber band. She swears by it.

Sometimes it plays over and over until you can get control.
 

Dolphin42

Registrant
You did nothing wrong by posting. It was just my realization that I have replicated the thought perpetually and constantly, and have looked online to replicate what my abuser looked like physically, as well as imitating the helplessness I went through. It’s just humiliating to admit.
Most of what we experienced and share here is humiliating, then and now. You're not alone in that. It can change with acceptance of things out of your control when younger.
 

MO-Survivor

Greeter
Staff member
You did nothing wrong by posting. It was just my realization that I have replicated the thought perpetually and constantly, and have looked online to replicate what my abuser looked like physically, as well as imitating the helplessness I went through. It’s just humiliating to admit.
Hey man, I thought about this a bit more. So honestly, many of us have replayed mentally - or in person - abuse, from some perspective listed in that chapter. I think how we replay it has to do with what we went through, along with our needs. For me, the need for a witness has been so powerful in my life. I ran fantasies in my head periodically since I was a kid where someone I know is in a CSA situation, and I am able to rescue and help them. That seems innocuous. I told my T that: "So on the surface, that doesn't seem to be such a bad thing to think about, but... I also realize I really don't think it's a healthy thing." It was part of the reason I re-entered therapy, honestly. So I'm glad you are talking to a T. I know I'm glad I am.
 

Dunc6932

Registrant
T
Most of what we experienced and share here is humiliating, then and now. You're not alone in that. It can change with acceptance of things out of your control when younger.

Thanks, that’s a tough one to accept what was beyond my control as a teenager. It cost me dearly. I hope I can make progress with counseling. The humiliation seems unstoppable sometimes, and drives the thought of the source. But it’s a bit of relief of sorts to know others feel it too. This is horrible.
 

Dolphin42

Registrant
Yes, I had the same general response to my childhood sexual abuse. "yuck" is the word I use to describe the whole ordeal, and dealing with now after all these years. But I need to heal, I owe that to myself and my family.
 
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Patrick Walsh

Registrant
This was devastating to read and learn about how my mind has replayed my feeling of helplessness to my abuser for over 35 years or so. Repetitive replay over a 35 year span to rationalize something to a different ending where I am spared the abuse, but it ends up the same outcome. How many people do they think do this?


I read the chapter. My abuser wasn't violent, just a lot of sucking. But years later I still crave to be serviced. And I'll put my self in situations to be preyed upon. It's exhilarating, all at once, and then overwhelmingly shameful. I'l also watch porn of men being seduced, I don't watch the rest just the beginning. I thought it made me feel powerful, but in the end it's a "less than " feeling. I'm happily married, And this behavior i not in alignment with the life I want. Maybe I need to look closer at the trauma
 
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