Confused

[beccy]

Last night I told my bf I still felt nervous about what he had meant during the other two conversations about acting out.

I said I didn't understand why he'd said the thing about it being something he'd consider in the future(if it became none-abuse related) and then following my (not surprisingly) slightly panicked response, said that he'd only meant if he was single??? I asked him if that meant being single in the future is something he sees as being a possibility and if that's why he said it, then he went on again to say much the same thing as he had the other night, ''if the fantasies become none-abusive, then I would have to consider if I wanted to explore that side of my sexuality''. So, I said, that is something you're considering then? Again he said no, he had explained it wrong again, been hypothetical, whatever. I said, ''look, if that's really what you're thinking, then it's good to be honest and at least we can approach the situation for what it really is, but if not, then I don't understand why you would say that to me.'' I also said that when we were younger and before we had kids, I would've said, let's just have an open relationship, so you can explore that if you need to, but now it's just not something I would want anymore. Again he said that wasn't what he'd meant and didn't seem to understand at all why it would be hurtful for me. I was mildly angry about his (apparent) initial thoughtlessness, saying those are the kinds of things which go round and round in my head and torment/confuse me about what exactly he means, then he proceeded to try and put me down by pointing out my tendency to be insecure and how I have some kind of a problem with it. I now understand this is something he's done thousands of times in the past. It has confused and dissoriented me, made me feel I'm crazy. I've been a nervous wreck for years, but last night I saw right through it. I believe I have much reason to feel insecure and any number of other worries and I can now see I've been a stupid, desperate, gullable, naive, begging idiot who deserves more than this. It was a victory for me and I feel proud of myself, i didn't lose my temper, feel crazy, cry or anything, just stood my ground and waited for an appology, which he gave in the end. He did seem genuinly sorry and said he'd been defensive. So, I now know he's really mean to me when he's defensive.


But my question is, what is the truth?????
I feel I can hardly believe anything he says to me, I don't know what's what.

When I said I want to be with someone who's really 'with' me, not someone who's head is mostly somewhere else, he said that's what you've got, but I said it's not how it feels when you say things like that.

I'm not naive about desires to go outside a relationship, but it's not the life I want with children/family. Also, if there is a very real issue of consideration of an actual relationship with a man, rather than just the sex, that's obviously another thing altogether, although that's not something he's said he wants, but how would i know the truth of anything anymore? I suppose this all puts an entirely different slant on why he's not asked me to marry him.


Would he backtrack and deny what he'd actually meant for fear of losing me? But, that doesn't seem fair to just keep me out of fear, be dishonest and then maybe leave me anyway.....


I am having big difficulties trusting him. And I don't understand his inability to guage what to share/what not to share as part of a loving relationship where the other person's feelings/self esteme are a consideration. I understand the issue of sexual confusion, I've been there in the past and there are things I would NEVER have said to him, which he's said to me. I don't get it.

He said he's had a number of moments recently where he's felt very aroused with me and he can see the promise of how that can be and how erotic and satisfying it will be. Which sounds fantastic, but I explained to him, that while he keeps saying some of things he does to me, that's getting in the way of me reaching a space like that with him.

Any advice/opinions or thoughts would be greatly appreciated........


Feeling like the great romance I know I've always wanted and deserve is never going to be a reality for me........


peace
Beccy

 

[Trish4850]

Beccy,

Are you reading what you write? You say that your b/f said he's just not explaining things right, yet you're off making yourself crazy because of what you're projecting on him, not what he is saying. All of your posts go round and round with the same stuff. He said this, but I think he really meant that. Can you see how horribly unfair that is?

I think a tremendous amount of your own insecurity comes from the fact that he hasn't asked you to marry him. Why would you want him to? Right now the two of you are in such a state that marriage would be a nightmare. Also, why would he want to ask you? From what I read in your posts, you've given him every indication that you're not happy. I'm sure he's convinced that even if he asked you would say no. Putting a ring on your finger would not fix your problems, it would only compound them. Any thoughts of marriage should be off the table completely at this point.

What I read is not that your b/f doesn't love you, but that you don't love him. If that's a fact, then so be it. Relationships fail, and more often than not its both people who have worked to make it fail. It's the very rare event when only one person is to blame.

ROCK ON........Trish

 

[beccy]

Trish,

I think it's more a case of repeatedly, ''he said this, but then he said he didn't mean this.'' The way he constantly changes what he says makes me nervous. I'm not sure what way I'm supposed to be feeling when he says these things?


He has spent our whole relationship waiting, hoping, imagining, thinking, wondering, planning when he can get to have sex with a man. How, where when etc. In the knowledge of this and recent events, I now understand entirely why I've always been insecure with him, as his mind has been SOMEWHERE ELSE. But I suppose I have no right to have any need of reassurance right now?


If it's not an issue of truth, it's certainly an issue of sensitivity and empathy. Either way, these things things DO lead to me feeling less trusting of him, but I suppose I'm not entitled to that either??


I have proffessed to him very passionately on many occasion that I would say yes to marriage, if he asked me. But, you're absolutely right, marriage at this point would be a BIG mistake.


Sometimes I'm even sure I like him much anymore, when I've realised the way everything's been between us and his uncertainty and unwillingness to commit. I would have said yes to marriage in a second a month ago, but not now. I'm sick of begging, let the passion come from him and if it never does, then so be it.


peace
Beccy

 

[beccy]

Just for the record, am I so crazy to wish for a partner who comes to me and says, ''Say you'll marry me, I want to be with you forever, I want you always here by my side''


He could have said that right after all this shit happened. I'd have believed him. I'd have been beyond happy to make that committment. It would have given me the belief in what he intends. Instead I feel unsure of what he intends........I'm not sure why that means I'm making myself crazy?

The fact is I'm with someone who isn't sure of what they want. I think that's enough to make someone who's ready for real committment (and with two children together) more than a little nervous.

 

[Trish4850]

He could not have said that. He wasn't in a place in his own head to say that or even think that. He's unsure of his intentions about LIFE, not just about you.

And if he had said that and you did make that commitment and you did get married......what would be different? He'd still be in therapy trying to figure himself out and you'd still be longing for the great romance that you don't have.

ROCK ON..........Trish

 

[beccy]

Yes well, I have just come the conclusion of that kind of thing,


one thing clearly leads to the next and so I have to find a way to live with this reality........and wait...............

It's that very fact that he's so unsure of all his intentions which I'm finding so hard to come to terms with.

I have to have faith in the fact he's chosen not to leave and his total dedication to healing... and what will be will be and I have no control over the destiny of that.

I think he is brilliant for doing what he's doing, I think he has amazing strength. I think he is amazing for being how he is despite what he's been through. I will admire him endlessly for all of this. I've never met another man who I've found continually handsome and attractive as I have found him. I have shared all these things with him. He knows them well.


I think within all of the recovery I've been going through myself, it's made me find it so hard to trust him. I believe I've been going through some odd emotions myself. I genuinly have felt very unsafe and been very paranoid that he just wanted to use me. I felt unsafe and vulnerable in public places and just felt I haven't been able to trust anyone. I felt physically sensitive, flinching on contact. I understand these are 'survivor' type feelings, which would make sense to me.

I have been in need of things which he can't give me at the moment. And at the same time, I think he's probably been in need of things I haven't been able to give him. This is a situation I have been aware of, which I've found depressing.


I'm just trying to stay aware of my own feelings and learn to express them. And making an effort to improve our communication. I'm trying to work on myself too....... I know I'm getting it wrong continualy, but it's a start,


peace
Beccy

 

[Trish4850]

Beccy,

You're both hurting now, in different yet similar ways. I don't know what he wants from you because I only hear your side of the story. It may be that he's expecting way more from you right now than you're capable of giving. I absolutely believe that you expect and maybe need more than he is capable of giving to you at the moment.

My first two posts here were harsh, I know that, but Beccy, many times, you say such wonderful things and such awful things about him in the same post that it confuses me, a total stranger reading only words. Can you imagine how he feels? You just said this:

I have to have faith in the fact he's chosen not to leave and his total dedication to healing... and what will be will be and I have no control over the destiny of that.

and it's the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

You aren't going to get your prince charming, not now, but maybe in the future you will. What it comes down to is can you wait it out? Can you find your own strength and your own self worth and lose, or at least minimize, your own insecurities enough to hold your family together without making him or you feel like crap when everything isn't happening fast enough?

You're both in therapy. Would it be possible for you to give your counselors permission to speak to one another? They know you both intimately and, I would assume, know the problems you're having. Maybe they could help you both individually to be better communicators as a couple if they have the whole story in front of them. If you're not willing to do that, then maybe ask them for a neutral 3rd counselor to act as nothing more than a mediator between the two of you. I'm just throwing out ideas. The way things are going is just not good - I am the master of the obvious aren't I?

ROCK ON........Trish

 

[SAR]

beccy,

Just from reading your initial post in this thread my guess is that your boyfriend talks in circles or says conflicting things because he's trying very hard to reassure you and he doesn't seem to be able to get it right.

You can't have it both ways-- if you want to know the whole truth, everything that's going on in his head, then some of that stuff will probably sound "thoughtless" or not considerate of you. But everyone has inconsiderate (or worse) thoughts that they would never act on or even say out loud, unless someone pushed them to say it.

At this point, what can he say or do that will be enough to ease your fears?

I know that personally I went through a phase where my boyfriend was getting stable and I responded by piling on a LOT of very high expectations and reacting badly when they were not met. For me that was ultimately about needing to know that he loved me and would support me even at my most unlovable-- and the nasty way that I chose to prove this to myself had a lot to do with feeling resentment over his years of getting a "free ride" when it came to being loved.

SAR

 

[kishka06]

Hi Beccy,
I have been sitting here thinking how much of the things you feel are related to his csa and the way he has subsequently been living his life (fearful of intimacy etc etc) , and how much is related to being in a relationship in which you feel unfulfilled. Definitely, they are tied together in some ways (his thoughts of being with other men (may) clearly be tied to the csa, since that is a common thread with many posts I have read here).

The fact that he never asked you to marry him is something that seems very important to you. Certainly, you have been together a long time. Marriage is something that most people would seem a natural course for a relationship of this length. But.....if you were married, I daresay that you would still be posting the exact same as what you are now - wondering why he is doing all of these things.

So, I guess what I am trying to say is....Are you basing all of your thought processes on the fact that he suffered csa - and that solely determines the way he acts OR....are you also considering that the foundation of the relationship really hasn't been built as strongly as it should have been for all these years(csa or no csa) and now cracks are starting to form.

For me, I have to put aside things that I 'think' are happening, and what I 'think' my bf is saying, to focus on what is real. I try not to bring my fears into it. It's complicated enough, without me bringing in past experiences to compound something that may, in fact be something quite honest and simple from my bf's point of view.

I agree with Trish......
'Can you find your own strength and your own self worth and lose, or at least minimize, your own insecurities enough to hold your family together without making him or you feel like crap when everything isn't happening fast enough?'

My T forced me to separate myself from my bf - easy to do since he had moved out. As I suffer from abandonment issues, she saw me pushing him to reassure me that he loved me.....and all I was doing was pushing him further away. The week of no contact (not even email) helped me put things in better perspective...and made me less panicked about what would happen when I did see him. I can honestly say that that was the turning point in mending our relationship and we haven't looked back.

Kishka

 

[beccy]

Thanks everyone for your very useful replies here.

Trish, you asked what my bf needs from me at the moment? I think he would have liked it if I'd been happy all the time. If every moment we've spent together over the past 4 months or so could have been an indulgence in his own 'awakening'. I do understand that, but also realise that's just not where I've been able to get to, out of shaken trust and the realisation of all the things I've been missing. I have felt like I could be anyone and it's like he's got a girlfriend for the first time, and I've been in need of something a lot deeper than that......a shame for him I know. A shame for me too.


Can I wait it out? Sometimes I feel like I'd be happier just on my own. Get my own strength back, enjoy my own peace and space and start over with bf. Yes I looked back on our relationship and what I felt like I saw was the fact I'd never had any boundaries. Right since the start. He always wanted to be physically close, and I didn't know how to effectively get anything I needed. So, I just gave up and gave in to not wanting to upset him. He has always either ignored me , or become very odd if I flirt with him, so I stopped doing that too, thinking he just found it unattractive/ugly. Everything I've ever wanted sexually/romantically has caused huge problems, and I mean initially I've always been quite careful/reasonable/sensitive in asking for anything. We've had no 'dialogue' at all. Makes me wonder how we've stayed together........


''But everyone has inconsiderate (or worse) thoughts that they would never act on or even say out loud, unless someone pushed them to say it.''


That's true indeed, but it doesn't hurt much to make the effort to be careful about the way you say things to your partner when dealing with such sensitive things as these. If the situation were reversed, I would expect no less of myself. I feel unwilling to appologise for asking questions and feel I've had to ask them, as he offers so little, seems to approach things as if he's got no consideration of the fact he is in a relationship with another person who is also 'involved' and affected by everything he chooses.


He says he wants me to be fully myself with him now. Flirt, be assertive etc. I am beginning to be brave, but everything triggers him. He says he wants one thing, but the very same thing triggers him. It makes me so nervous. I'm just about managing to seperate myself from it.........But I've no sex drive at all at the moment anyway, sorry to be so candid, but that's how it is! I can become slightly aroused if we kiss, but wouldn't want to take it any further and the feeling dissipates quite quickly and then I want to stop. I feel like I'd like to spend time before that, getting to that point and THEN kiss. Maybe there's just no chemistry between us.........


Communication is a major issue.


peace
Beccy

 

[kishka06]

Hi Beccy,
In your last paragraph, you say your bf wants you to be fully yourself. I know this would make you nervous - I started to not act myself very shortly into my relationship (it was all to do with my own insecurities), and my bf responded quite negatively . But, suffice to say, I understand what you are saying here.

The fact that your bf is talking about this at all is reassuring (in my eyes at least) that he sees a future with you. It's easy to say don't be nervous, and just be yourself - but reality is quite different.

Just take a step back...breathe...don't worry too much about sex (we didn't for quite a while) - again, sometimes not easy! - and do the thing that will help everything. Communicate.

Kishka