Compulsive masturbation
Squidgy's quotes in Scotty's topic raise some interesting points for me.
" "A high proportion of masturbatory experiences are motivated less by erotic needs than by general anxiety, tension, and boredom for which it becomes a sought-for tranquilizer." So when one is upset, depressed, lonely, or under much stress this habit becomes a convenient "tranquilizer" to blot out one's troubles. Therefore, to avoid masturbation, you must recognize this as an immature way to deal with problems."
This I agree with, and I think it was AA that created the acronym "HALT" to help people overcome the urge to drink - and masturbation when it's a problem can easily be considered addictive.
Hungry, Alone, Lonely, Tired.
And for me I only need two or three of those factors for something to go "click" and start me off.
As I said in the last post, even though I had distractions and contact with someone for a couple of hours the compulsion remained, and I gave in. And did I beat myself up ? of course I did. Looking at porn and masturbating is something I don't want to do. I want to have a normal sex life with my wife. And the maddening thing is so does she, she's a sensual and uninhibited woman. It's not as though I have any problem with not having access to normal sex.
The problem is that at times I still have the old fantasy of sex with other men, and I find it difficult to resolve that with having sex with my wife. I know where the fantasy originates - from my abuse. So I don't want that, but it's proving so difficult to erase from my mind. It's been there for nearly 35 years and I suppose trying to throw it out in 3 or 4 years might be asking a bit much ?
It's nowhere near as bad as it was, and I do accept to a degree that if this is as good as it gets FOR ME then maybe I will have to learn to accept it even more ?
But that's my view, and not everyone elses.
Another quote though I don't agree with -
"Suppose you accidentally see or hear something that is sexually stimulating? Exert your mind and reject the immoral thought. The arousal will soon die down."
For two reasons, firstly calling the fantasy "an immoral thought" just compounds the guilt - haven't we got enough guilt without piling more on top ? I know I'm contradicting myself here a bit because I don't want my particular type of fantasy, but I don't want any more guilt either, and I think that for me anyway the guilt is a greater burden than having a fantasy.
The second point is that I find the statement simplistic, "exert your mind and reject the immoral thought" - I've tried that - and it doesn't work ( for me )
Also, and more importantly, it's a perfectly natural thing to see, read or hear something erotic and be aroused.
It doesn't have to be porn, just an attractive person we see on the street, a scene in a movie or a passage in a book.
Of course it's better, or should I say more acceptable on a personal level, if the image that arouses us is something we agree with as regards being acceptable for us, the individual. But even people in good monogamous relationships look and admire other people or read erotic books.
Naomi Wolf the feminist writer wrote this in an excellent article about pornography and it's debilitating effects on men.
This passage shows, I believe, that it is perfectly possible to be sexual without resorting to vivid fantasy outside your frame of morality.
And this is where I want to go, to a position where I educate myself to what is acceptable to me.
I've tried abstinence, and I know that others here have as well with varied results, but for me it didn't work.
Quote -
Other cultures know this. I am not advocating a return to the days of hiding female sexuality but I now understand that the power and charge of sex is maintained when there is some sacredness to it.
The sense that sex is not every-where on tap all the time benefits relationships. This is why many cultures condemn the wide dissemination of sexual images. Many more traditional cultures seem to understand male sexuality better than we do. They understand what it takes to keep men and women turned on to one another over time - to help men, in particular, be, as the Old Testament puts it, satisfied with the breasts of the wife of thy youth.
These cultures urge men not to look at porn because they place a high value on erotic married stability, and they know that a powerful erotic bond between parents is a key element of a strong family.
They see that the sexual drive is like the pressure in a pipe; if you expose a man or woman to a myriad of intense sexual images of other mates, it is like a thousand nicks in the pipe, a thousand leaks of sexual energy; so that in the end there is less energy to bring to the relationship. These cultures may not be nice to women - but they understand the power of Eros. We can teach them about equality; -they can teach us about sacredness.
And feminists have misunderstood many of these prohibitions. Orthodox Jews do not look at the eyes of women because they understand that a direct glance can be meltingly erotic. Muslim women cover their hair because hair is sexy.
Critics of such practices have not looked at the benefits that these cultures glean from setting apart sexual stimulation for the enjoyment only of married lovers: if you have ever seen Moroccan women dancing at a wedding you will know how steamy scenes between observant Muslim husbands and wives can be. Observant Jewish women, who abstain from sex two weeks a month, tell me they have more erotically charged encounters with their husbands than their secular counterparts whose mates come home after a long day at work continually slightly aroused by co-workers, billboards and ads, only to have to work at it to get excited by a naked ordinary wife.
I will never forget a visit I made to Devorah, an old friend who had become an orthodox Jew in Jerusalem. I found she had abandoned her jeans and T-shirts for long skirts and a headscarf. I could not get over it. Devorah has waist-length wild curly golden-blonde hair. Cant I even see your hair? I asked, trying to find my old friend in there. No, she demurred quietly. Why not? I wondered. After all, I am a woman. Only my husband, she said with a calm sexual confidence, ever gets to see my hair.
When she showed me her little house in a settlement on a hill and I saw the bedroom, draped in Middle Eastern embroideries, that she shares only with her husband (the kids are not allowed in) and only when the time is right, the sexual -intensity in the air was archaic, overwhelming.
It was private. It was a feeling of erotic intensity deeper than any I have ever picked up between secular couples in the liberated West. And I thought: our husbands see naked women all day on Times Square, if not on the internet. Her husband never even sees another womans hair. She must feel, I thought, so hot.
Quote.
Personally I think that this kind of relationship with my sexuality would be perfect, although I'm not suggesting my wife wears a veil. But I'm trying hard to focus on our relationship in every aspect and I think that the husband of Devorah would also feel "hot" because they have moulded and developed their relationship to accomodate sex, and enjoy it with the mystery and delight of newly weds.
What Wolf advocates, and I agree with, is that porn and the non stop highly erotic images of advertising and MTV videos etc keep raising the level of what arouses us, way past the 'normal' arousal of seeing your partner dressed up and looking good, and them feeling the same about you. These highly sexually charged images desensitize us so we want more and stronger ones.
And for us survivors of course we have a headfull of memories and images already - the wrong ones !
So for us it's doubly difficult, we have our own images and when we turn the TV on there's Britney gyrating in front of us !
Where do we go to escape - is there an escape ? I don't know, it's hard to avoid all these influences and images and they trigger a normal physical response in us.
We can go and live in a cave in the desert, or somehow deal with what we've got. I'm trying hard to do the second one. I turn the TV off more than I used to, and try to regulate the influences I recieve. But it's hard.
I want to enjoy my sexuality, not feel guilty about part, or even all, of it.
Dave
" "A high proportion of masturbatory experiences are motivated less by erotic needs than by general anxiety, tension, and boredom for which it becomes a sought-for tranquilizer." So when one is upset, depressed, lonely, or under much stress this habit becomes a convenient "tranquilizer" to blot out one's troubles. Therefore, to avoid masturbation, you must recognize this as an immature way to deal with problems."
This I agree with, and I think it was AA that created the acronym "HALT" to help people overcome the urge to drink - and masturbation when it's a problem can easily be considered addictive.
Hungry, Alone, Lonely, Tired.
And for me I only need two or three of those factors for something to go "click" and start me off.
As I said in the last post, even though I had distractions and contact with someone for a couple of hours the compulsion remained, and I gave in. And did I beat myself up ? of course I did. Looking at porn and masturbating is something I don't want to do. I want to have a normal sex life with my wife. And the maddening thing is so does she, she's a sensual and uninhibited woman. It's not as though I have any problem with not having access to normal sex.
The problem is that at times I still have the old fantasy of sex with other men, and I find it difficult to resolve that with having sex with my wife. I know where the fantasy originates - from my abuse. So I don't want that, but it's proving so difficult to erase from my mind. It's been there for nearly 35 years and I suppose trying to throw it out in 3 or 4 years might be asking a bit much ?
It's nowhere near as bad as it was, and I do accept to a degree that if this is as good as it gets FOR ME then maybe I will have to learn to accept it even more ?
But that's my view, and not everyone elses.
Another quote though I don't agree with -
"Suppose you accidentally see or hear something that is sexually stimulating? Exert your mind and reject the immoral thought. The arousal will soon die down."
For two reasons, firstly calling the fantasy "an immoral thought" just compounds the guilt - haven't we got enough guilt without piling more on top ? I know I'm contradicting myself here a bit because I don't want my particular type of fantasy, but I don't want any more guilt either, and I think that for me anyway the guilt is a greater burden than having a fantasy.
The second point is that I find the statement simplistic, "exert your mind and reject the immoral thought" - I've tried that - and it doesn't work ( for me )
Also, and more importantly, it's a perfectly natural thing to see, read or hear something erotic and be aroused.
It doesn't have to be porn, just an attractive person we see on the street, a scene in a movie or a passage in a book.
Of course it's better, or should I say more acceptable on a personal level, if the image that arouses us is something we agree with as regards being acceptable for us, the individual. But even people in good monogamous relationships look and admire other people or read erotic books.
Naomi Wolf the feminist writer wrote this in an excellent article about pornography and it's debilitating effects on men.
This passage shows, I believe, that it is perfectly possible to be sexual without resorting to vivid fantasy outside your frame of morality.
And this is where I want to go, to a position where I educate myself to what is acceptable to me.
I've tried abstinence, and I know that others here have as well with varied results, but for me it didn't work.
Quote -
Other cultures know this. I am not advocating a return to the days of hiding female sexuality but I now understand that the power and charge of sex is maintained when there is some sacredness to it.
The sense that sex is not every-where on tap all the time benefits relationships. This is why many cultures condemn the wide dissemination of sexual images. Many more traditional cultures seem to understand male sexuality better than we do. They understand what it takes to keep men and women turned on to one another over time - to help men, in particular, be, as the Old Testament puts it, satisfied with the breasts of the wife of thy youth.
These cultures urge men not to look at porn because they place a high value on erotic married stability, and they know that a powerful erotic bond between parents is a key element of a strong family.
They see that the sexual drive is like the pressure in a pipe; if you expose a man or woman to a myriad of intense sexual images of other mates, it is like a thousand nicks in the pipe, a thousand leaks of sexual energy; so that in the end there is less energy to bring to the relationship. These cultures may not be nice to women - but they understand the power of Eros. We can teach them about equality; -they can teach us about sacredness.
And feminists have misunderstood many of these prohibitions. Orthodox Jews do not look at the eyes of women because they understand that a direct glance can be meltingly erotic. Muslim women cover their hair because hair is sexy.
Critics of such practices have not looked at the benefits that these cultures glean from setting apart sexual stimulation for the enjoyment only of married lovers: if you have ever seen Moroccan women dancing at a wedding you will know how steamy scenes between observant Muslim husbands and wives can be. Observant Jewish women, who abstain from sex two weeks a month, tell me they have more erotically charged encounters with their husbands than their secular counterparts whose mates come home after a long day at work continually slightly aroused by co-workers, billboards and ads, only to have to work at it to get excited by a naked ordinary wife.
I will never forget a visit I made to Devorah, an old friend who had become an orthodox Jew in Jerusalem. I found she had abandoned her jeans and T-shirts for long skirts and a headscarf. I could not get over it. Devorah has waist-length wild curly golden-blonde hair. Cant I even see your hair? I asked, trying to find my old friend in there. No, she demurred quietly. Why not? I wondered. After all, I am a woman. Only my husband, she said with a calm sexual confidence, ever gets to see my hair.
When she showed me her little house in a settlement on a hill and I saw the bedroom, draped in Middle Eastern embroideries, that she shares only with her husband (the kids are not allowed in) and only when the time is right, the sexual -intensity in the air was archaic, overwhelming.
It was private. It was a feeling of erotic intensity deeper than any I have ever picked up between secular couples in the liberated West. And I thought: our husbands see naked women all day on Times Square, if not on the internet. Her husband never even sees another womans hair. She must feel, I thought, so hot.
Quote.
Personally I think that this kind of relationship with my sexuality would be perfect, although I'm not suggesting my wife wears a veil. But I'm trying hard to focus on our relationship in every aspect and I think that the husband of Devorah would also feel "hot" because they have moulded and developed their relationship to accomodate sex, and enjoy it with the mystery and delight of newly weds.
What Wolf advocates, and I agree with, is that porn and the non stop highly erotic images of advertising and MTV videos etc keep raising the level of what arouses us, way past the 'normal' arousal of seeing your partner dressed up and looking good, and them feeling the same about you. These highly sexually charged images desensitize us so we want more and stronger ones.
And for us survivors of course we have a headfull of memories and images already - the wrong ones !
So for us it's doubly difficult, we have our own images and when we turn the TV on there's Britney gyrating in front of us !
Where do we go to escape - is there an escape ? I don't know, it's hard to avoid all these influences and images and they trigger a normal physical response in us.
We can go and live in a cave in the desert, or somehow deal with what we've got. I'm trying hard to do the second one. I turn the TV off more than I used to, and try to regulate the influences I recieve. But it's hard.
I want to enjoy my sexuality, not feel guilty about part, or even all, of it.
Dave
, but I think the acronym is:
