Circumcision

[SubtleStuff]

Hi Guys,

I read a book recently by Ronald Goldman called "Circumcision: The Hidden Trauma" (see: https://www.circumcision.org/cht.htm) and found his description of the procedure and the reasons for it disturbing. Yet his argument (basically abolish this barbaric procedure and study the effects it has already had on people) seems valid and very humane.

It makes me wonder what scars it has left in me. I certainly felt anger while reading the book that anyone would put me through such a procedure at such a young age without a thought otherwise.

I'm revising what I call it now. I think Male Genital Mutilation works. Some call it rape. Sexual child abuse could work too. That a mother has a say in it's approval includes her in the perpetrators (Goldman suggests that its usually fathers who are most keen on it for their sons and the doctors are usually male but mothers also have a say and will often neglect to voice their concerns about it).

He claims that prior to the mid-1980's it was done without anesthetic (see: https://www.circumcision.org/response.htm). I can't imagine how that wouldn't traumatize an infant boy!

Any thoughts?

Perhaps not so Subtle Stuff?

 

[George]

During my time of healing with the abuse, I came to see my own circumcision as abuse, and I still do. My father was not born on the mainland USA, and was not circ'd back in the early 40's. Why he let his sons be circ'd is beyond me. I told my Wife that if we had kids I wouldn't have them circ'd and she agreed with me.

Why is it still done routinely? because it's very fast money for the doctor & hospital, like $1,500 on average around here for a five minute procedure. There are doctors who still don't use anesthesia for it, too. My Wife is a nurse and sees it done all the time.

Yeah it is weird that fathers think that because they were circ'd, their sons should look like them down there too, like they are going to be whipping it out and comparing or even caring about looking like Dad?

For me, it's no different than the female genital mutilation going on. Both are heinous in my eyes. But that's me...

 

[Chris4TheMill]

This is just me....but I am glad I was circumsized. Don't have to worry about cleaning underneath.
I know everyone is different though and I get the reactions to the procedure, such as the fact that as infants we aren't given a choice.

My relatives came from Europe and my dad was not circumsized.
Why he decided to do it with us is something we never discussed.
It wasn't a burning issue for me, but I suppose I could ask him out of curiosity.

 

[Tom E.]

I also think it is an unnecessary & barbaric procedure causing trauma in males. We were born with foreskins, they are there for a reason, evolution has not fazed them out!

 

[dac]

I remember reading one time about a process called "uncircumcision," whereby you could grow back the foreskin. If I remember correctly, it involved something like stretching out the skin and wrapping a rubber band around it to keep it stretched. The longer it is stretched, the more new layers of skin cells form. Eventually you have a foreskin again. So there are 3 types of men: uncut, circumcised, and uncircumcised. I am circumcised, but never tried to grow it back. Just thought it was interesting...

 

[SubtleStuff]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your comments. I've been realizing that I have a significant fear of people in positions of authority and wonder if some of it comes from this procedure (there are obviously many other sources in my life, but this could be one). I was surprised at my anger as I read the book. I wish there was more research on how this has affected men and other people. It's kind of like a blind spot in our culture.

Cheers,

S

 

[greenwizard]

I personally think it's kind of a dumb thing to do, but don't have any strong opinions on the subject. I have read articles about it though. When I was writing a story and the characters were having a baby I researched pregnancy and babies and all of that. Came across an article about circumcision, and hey, I'm a curious person.

It used to be done for religious reasons. Now it is done mostly for cleanliness and convenience. Apparently a study was done and the risk for a male circumcised baby developing a UTI in the first year of life is 1 in 1,000 vs. 1 in 100 for male babies who are not. On top of that, researches have come to the conclusion that having a foreskin increases your chances of contracting an STD if you engage in sex with a partner who has one. Because of that, men in Africa are actually getting adult circumcisions to help combat the HIV epidemic. And of course these men were interviewed and asked whether or not sex was better or worse without their foreskin. Some said better, some said worse, and others said there was no difference, so no real conclusion there. And yes, another reason parents do it is because when a dad is helping to potty train his son he does not want to field the questions of a curious toddler as to why his pee pee looks so different from daddy's. Kind of a dumb thing, I know, but what can you do...

Honestly though, if the procedure did traumatize me, I don't remember a thing now. It's not something I put a lot of thought into. Although, the article did say that the number of parents who do decide to have it done has gone down something like 30% in the past 15 years.

 

[dark empathy]

I recall when my lady and I read through Alex Comfort's "the joy of sex" together he did discuss Circumcision.

One comment he made (which I can actually attest to), is that there are different sensations available for a man depending upon whether or not the for skin is pulled back or not during intercourse, and that it is worth trying both ways.

I can say myself the thought of circumcision makes me wince, since I have realized my glans is particularly sensitive, which I suspect contributed both to my receptivity to abuse, and conversely, my ability to experience a great deal in love making more recently.

On this basis I definitely! don't like the idea of circumcision, since while not as critical to pleasure as the so called female circumcision practice is it still removes options for sensitivity that a man would otherwise have, ---- quite aside from the actual trauma of the procedure itself, though how much physical trauma as an infant affects later life I'm not sure of, I was quite irritated with on e therapist who persisted in telling me my problems had nothing to do with my abuse and everything to do with the fact that I had an extremely difficult and premature birth.

I believe in the Uk the procedure isn't one that people can have on the nhs and I doubt anyone besides ultra conservative Jews would engage in it, and I suspect those ultra conservative Jews have to go and get it done privately or even go to another country.

 

[SubtleStuff]

Hi GreenWizard,

It used to be done for religious reasons.

Ronald Goldman wrote in his book that it was originally a practice adopted in the USA that grew out of the masturbation phobia that lasted from 1830-1930. It has its roots in Victorian puritanical values as well as sexual guilt, self doubt, and hostile public opinion. He said that by 1928 the medical profession thought that circumcision (male genital mutilation) would prevent masturbation and the many mental and physical illnesses it was thought to cause. During that time period (1880-1937) female genital mutilation was also practiced for similar reasons. He thinks male circumcision outlasted female circumcision because it relies on the judgement of male doctors and fathers who themselves are circumcised.

Thanks for writing.

Cheers,

S

 

[SubtleStuff]

Hi Dark Empathy,

... there are different sensations available for a man depending upon whether or not the for skin is pulled back or not during intercourse, and that it is worth trying both ways.

Ronald Goldman's book agrees with this. He claims that men who've been circumcised in adulthood often regret their decision due to the loss of sensitivity and sexual satisfaction it engenders.

I believe in the Uk the procedure isn't one that people can have on the nhs and I doubt anyone besides ultra conservative Jews would engage in it, and I suspect those ultra conservative Jews have to go and get it done privately or even go to another country.

It certainly isn't as prevalent in Europe (UK