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crisispoint

Registrant
I really don't know how to confront the idea of sexuality. Long before I started recovering the memories of my abuse, I found myself sexually attracted to men as well as women. Since that time, I've allowed myself to be picked up by two men and engaged in sexual activity. To say they were cheap, tawdry, and now I realize reflect the abuse I had at 11 is an understatement.

Both men met me on the internet. I met one in a partking lot and had nothing more than handjobs and oral in his car while he was driving. There was some force involved at the end of the encounter, but I don't think it counts as rape. Needless to say, he never called back.

The second guy took me to a cheap hotel and we had sex for a long time there. Then came the actual sex that people think about in gay relationships and he hurt me. I allowed it, but still, he didn't take one step to insure my comfort. He only did what he wanted and once again, he never called. I felt so dirty, cheap, and used (familiar territory these days!).

Even now, I guess you could say I'm "dating" an older guy, but he seems to have issues of his own, since we've never engaged in sexual activity outside of making out and kissing.

I guess I'm wondering if it's normal to set yourself up with these encounters when you know they'll hurt and they'll be empty. What does it mean when you allow yourself to be hurt by older men?

I wish I could have a relationship that was loving and respectful.

Scot
 
Crisispoint:

I too have done what you have done. For me it was the physical re-enactment of my abuse. I needed to feel wanted again like I had been and to revel in the pain of the encounter( violent) and to feel again the deep self loathing afterwards.

Yes we do set ourselves up because we are doing what our perps told us was the only thing we were good for. And we keep quiet about it because of the shame. This too they want because we protect them.

It is a vicious wheel they put us on and it is so hard to get off.
 
you know at one point i thought i might be bi, but the bottom line is i needed the abuse in some sad way. i too have met men on the net, had sex a few times, and moved on. the worst part is, i hated myself for it, and was repulsed by being with men. it took time, but i finally realized that part of me was the abuse, not an actual atraction. i am definately straight, but i understand where you are. i have been there, and i dont want to go back. i hope you find peace and a good relationship for you, male or female. be happy, that is what is most important.
 
I would think that most people, SA survivors or not, having casual sex in a parking lot or cheap hotel,whether with a man or woman, can't help but have feelings of debasement, degradation, lack of fulfillment etc. etc. This kind of sex might be described as self abuse. Masturbation is a better alternative. Peace, Andrew
 
I've done that too, meeting guys on the internet and then doing stuff with them. One guy I remember I wasn't even interested in, but for some reason I went along with it anyways. I kept my eyes closed a lot, but I hated to touch him. In the end I felt totally victimized, like he had raped me, even though things didn't go much beyond kissing and masturbation. It was like what had happened to me all over again, but this time I was an adult and so can't blame anyone.

It's not "normal" in the sense of what is good for us, but I would think it is common for SA survivors. Just try to make the right decisions for yourself, do what makes you feel best. If I had done what was right for me I would have said "No" and walked out on that guy, no matter what point we were up to.

I hope you find that loving and respectful relationship that you're looking for, maybe this guy you're "dating" will be the one. Just remember, you gotta be loving and respectful of yourself if you want others to treat you that way; I find that to be the hardest part.
 
Thanks for the responses. I guess how I felt (and occasionally still feel sometimes) can be summed up by a quote which I read in "The Silence of the Lambs." I wish I could remember how it really goes, but it can be summed up as, "how many times has she (a victim of Buffalo Bill) rolled over willingly so she could feel another person's heartbeat against her back?"

This is the lonliness I struggle with, in addition to my sexuality issues. Sometimes its better to lert someone hurt you than be alone.

Scot
 
Dear Scot,

As you can tell from the responses you've gotten so far, the type of behavior you describe in your life is far from uncommon. That it seems to more prevalent among survivors of sexual abuse is easy to extrapolate, but I'm not sure if it is really true.

Let's face it. Our culture is fucked up about sex and sexuality. Most people if not all people have sex problems. As a survivor of sexual abuse, I have some way of identifying examples from my past that give me clues about how and where to go to recover from the contributing factors that lead to many of my sex problems.

I think that lots of people have no where to turn to find real help with problems of sexual behavior/orientation. I know that as a gay male, such places have been very hard to come by in my life.

It is finally here at MaleSurvivor that I have found a place where I feel that I am among men who understand and who empathize with my dilemna without trying to take advantage of it.

All this to say, that you are in the right place buddy. This is where you can find some real healing and reconciliation with that loving side of yourself that seeks closeness and intimacy with others.

Our problems, as survivors, seem to be a lot more about the dynamics of "power" in relationships than with actual sexual activity. Sure it hurts to get fucked when the person who's doing the fucking doesn't give a damn about what the other person feels.

You're right to ask what there is that leads some of us to seemingly seek out and repeat such behaviors. I know that I have done it for years and years. That definition of insanity that says it's repeating the same behavior over and over and always expecting different results truly applied to me.

I was 'insane' in my sex life partly or greatly due to the sexual abuse I suffered as an adolescent. So instead of trying to fix my sexual orientation or activities, what I really needed to do was to begin to heal the wounds left by the sexual abuse.

Once I started the healing process, much of what was so upsetting if not dangerous in my behavior slowly began to change. Sure, it is a one day at a time thing, but the good news for me is that it is possible to heal. And with healing comes relief from all the guilt and shame that ineveitably came from my tawdry, cheap, ignoble sexual affairs.

The first big step for me was coming here and talking about it with men who could identify with exactly what I was talking about. That broke the isolation that I was living in and made me realize that I was no longer alone.

That realization by itself was a big help, and many more steps and much more help has come from that.

You can probably tell, I have a lot of feeling about this subject. It has saved my life in more ways than I can say.

The main thing I would like to share with you is that this desire to be close to others, to be intimate, to be sexual is a very wonderful part of your make-up as a human being. Though the expression of this marvelous gift may be twisted or sullied by past experiences of abuse and other trauma, it does not mean that fundamentally our sexual desires are cheap, trashy or tawdry.

It is our ability to love and to be loved. Our desire to become intimate and sexual that is the basis for all human society. So please as much as possible try to hang on to the idea that you and your sex are a wonderful gift and that someday you will be able to recover the joy of loving another that was robbed from you by the abuser.

I'm glad that you're here. This is the right place to be and you're asking the right questions.

Keep coming back and posting. you not only help yourself but me and others too.

Thanks for the honesty.

Your brother,
 
I can relate to so much of this. It seems sometimes that I'm stuck in a self-destructive downward spiral that I can't get out of 'til I've had some anonymous sex that leaves me feeling guilty, used and useless. I get so disgusted with myself afterwards. I know that in a large part it is re-living part of the abuse, trying to get some control over it. But just the human contact, being that intimate with another being is something that feels so good if only momentarily.

Take good care of yourselves my brothers,

Steve
 
Hey,

I just read your message. I can sympathize. I think for whatever reason, we can be so subject to repetitive, anti-social, hurtful behavior...at this point, I can not quite fit it in--whether it is the abuse, or our acting out in the face of such a hostile environment. For me, it is the latter I think.

That is, for me, when I first when through the coming out period, I boiled all my issues into one, and could not separate them. As such, I was increasingly stressed--I did not know how to deal with it, but what I did know was that I did like to be with guys. I guess I always knew that since I was little, perhaps even before the abuse. That's me, of course, and not you. Yours may be linked to the abuse.

I am not sure of your exact situation, aside from what you relayed here, but what I want to tell you, is that you are not alone...many straight and gay guys have been through abuse, but we all get through it. What is important here to remember is that you ARE in control.

I can not sit here and judge you and the like (as I know how it feels when we fall, and certainly, I have my own pitfalls), but what I can tell you is that sex without genuine love can be self-destructive. What is important is to think of your future and think of what it is that you want...then go for it. The reason I say that is that sometimes, we need to be focused on some goal--so that we may fulfill our dreams : )
 
Scot,

You wrote this above.
Sometimes its better to let someone hurt you than be alone.
Click to expand...
I won't waste words to tell you I understand how you could say that. And I won't lecture or argue the point either.

I mean this kindly and for your benefit.

It is NEVER better to let someone hurt you in order to fulfill an emotional or sexual need.

You are far too important and valuable to make a trade off like that. ALL OF US ARE.

I truly hope that you will accept this, and believe it, as soon as possible.

When you do, there is a topic on the forum where that statement belongs. It is called "All Lies".

Please click -> here
 
What you described is pretty much what my life was for several years. I met people in anonymous situations at porn video, strip clubs, nudist places or the internet and would have sex but never see them again. There was usually no mental connection with them, just purely sexual. I usually never remembered their faces or anything about them either as it was blocked from my mind.

And like you suggested, I often left feeling more empty, alone, disgusted, shameful, sick, dirty, (you name it, I felt it). I hated myself so much for all of this and yet no matter how hard I tried at the time, I couldn't stop it from happening.

Then I finally got the courage up to begin talking online with others about it and then with my therapist and then with a close survivor friend. Once I learned to accept myself, my behavior began a slow process of change. It did change finally for me as I have not been back into any of those situations for a long time.

It does help that I have Jeff and I am totally committed to him, but something changed within me (can't figure out what it was or when it happened), but my desire to do these things stopped. Maybe it was a miracle,,, I don't know!

I am not able to do the version of sex that you refer to (anal sex) because of the traumas that still haunt me from my childhood. I would love to, but I just can't get there. And we have so much enjoyment with each other in so many levels that it really doesn't matter. Sometimes I think it is more a stereotype that all gay people do this. Plus anything that hurts is not good and should not be taken to be something that is good for anyone. If a partner does not respect this, they are definately not there for a fulfilling experience. Both Jeff and I respect each other 100% and that has allowed us to learn to love each other more and more.

But please know that as rough as it may seem right now, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. It took me some time to find it and at one point in my life I never thought I would. Alot of it begins with learning to love and accept yourself (even with what you may perceive as your failures). That's not easy, but it is an important step in this process.

Don
 
Bill

It seems like a dream, but I think I is very doable.
Click to expand...
You bet !

Dave
 
Hi Bill, this is one of the times when having met a person makes me feel so much more secure in what I write.

You are a fine man Bill. There is no doubt you have a good sense of yourself. Besides all the good qualities you have, I feel that the people whom you attract, will be the people you want to be around. Someday, one of those will be that special person you are looking for. I bet that person is probably looking for someone like you right now.

Bob
 
All of these responses have been great. Thanks to all.

It just gets lonely, that's all. And it's hard. I've really wanted to do things that would be unhealthy just to cure the lonliness. Or get some control over what was done to me (being abused on my terms, I suppose).

It wouldn't be as easy for me being in my mid-thirties (soon to be late thirties), but sometimes, I feel like trolling for dirty old men and let them do what they want. Then I think about you guys and what you've said and it's easier to resist that.

Thanks.

Scot
 
Scott,
The loneliness was something that fed into my habit of looking for these things. I felt all alone and I hated that. But now looking back I can see that I actually added to my loneliness as I continued my activities. Maybe one of the things that helped change the course for me and helped me to take a turn was when I volunteered for a local community group. I remember being so scared at the time to do this and it ended up being one of the most enjoyable things that I have ever done. Since I no longer live there, I do really miss this community group but that might have been the thing that actually turned the rudder on the ship.

Don
 
I don't quite know where to start but I need to! See, I can very much identify with Scott, and more, lots lots lots lots more!

Four years ago, as I sparated from my family, I started dealing with ME. Least I thought I had. Instead, I ended up hurting myself and others. I wasn't at ALL aware that I, ME I was a compulsive ADDICT.. and compulsive sex addict as well as a SAME SEX ADDICT to boot. (SSA) There were abuse support abuse I went to, which were supportive, when I was in them. However, I allowed myself to get caught up in a part of me I didn't know existed. Deep within, my lusts, overtook everything I knew. The emotional trauma I experienced as a result was due to MY OWN screwed up vision of what I thought was Ok. I caused hurt for me as well as for others. SO, I then rationalized that to keep myself above that I needed to
  • (a) be more OPEN with people, but
    (b)I ALSO needed fulfill these feelings OUTWARDLY in a controlled way so as not to let myself get to a point where I could screw again.
Thus, I allowed myself to be in put in extremely submissive and to some extent victimized behaviors wanting to be victimized to the worse extent possible, and willing to do anything demanded of me. NOTHING ELSE MATTERED when I was in that 'MODE'! I acted out, allowing myself to do theses things over and over and over.. with WHOMEVER... and moreover BY WHOMEVER... ALl of wihich I thought punishment and fulfillment

In the meantime I sought help in many venues.. online.. in support groups, in a men's SSA group, offline in a mens group, in a church group that said it could make me str8, in SA, I am still active in an online Reparative Therapy group.. and somewhat active in another Church SSA group and they ARE very supportive.. I have tried SA...I even went to one of your retreats... and on and on and on. So it is NOT that I am not trying. the thing is I am not totally sure I want to .. and I do NOT understand why.

Today I am not all too much better... in the last 2 years I have acted out with many men i never thought I would or could be with but I did.. I think about sex 24 hours day and I MEAN literally TWENTY-FOUR HOURS ... IN MY SLEEP...I DREAM about sexual situations. When I talk to people.. there are ALWAYS -- ALWAYS sexual innuendos that come to my mind.. NOTHING... stops my feelings in side.. I want to be hurt.. I want someone to take that total control and do whatever they want to me.. and I HAVE ALLOWED IT.. and I HAVE ENJOYED IT, and given the opportunity, likely will again.

Some of you here may know me... I also use the name stuocms. I have and want to HIDE nothing...

I am also seeing a woman now... and I am not sure why... I like her a whole lot. I enjoy being with her most times.. but she thinks though the 'Holy Spirit' I can have this daemon driven from me. That if I wanted to it too, it would just 'GO AWAY' but I am hanging on to it. OH, how i wish it was that simple. I have been open and honest with her about my abuse, and about my being gay. But not about ALL my acting out, just that I have acted out. I insist to her and those at church, she also attends, that I do not want to be like this(sic). To some extent I DON"T... but in reality to some extent I do. I want to have sex with her too... to the point where it has strained our relationship, which I am not sure i want, yet I do. She thinks I am this really great guy and I can overcome all this. I think I am not great at all, that I am far from what she deserves. So, I end up sabataging our relationship, not consciously, but I do, same as I did with my (ex)wife, whom I still love dearly but does no longer love me or will ever again. Divorce in eminant in the next month.

I have come close to fulfilling suicidal feelings but back out cause I am so scared, I love GOD and love my boys... (2 sons) I still 'absolutely go out of my way to PLEASE everyone' AT MY OWN EXPENSE and think nothing of it. I run as far as I can to avoid ANY confrontation, even to the extent of where I need to me acertive with my boys. I don't know how to think at times as an adult, and I am way into adulthood, almost into archaichood.

I am not sure if Scott's Post was where I needed to post this, but a lot of what you guys said to him related to me also and I did not want to be redundant... The point is, while I hate it.. I LOVE IT.. I crave it I lust for it.. I CAN'T HELP IT. I can't reach that intellectual part.. that you guys and others talk about.. I just can't get there. I am like a little kid.. unable to make rational decisions.. UNABLE to say 'NO' not even to MYSELF. Please Note that I have not done anything illegal or hurtful to anyone.. least not in a physical sense anyway, except to myself.

Tom

P.S. I feel that while there is a WHOLE lot of EMPHASIS on the CHURCH situatuion... and i am HIGHLY emotionally UPSET and saddened by the depts to which that went. But please remember, and I am sure you DO, that there are MILLIONS of us also that were abused by members of our own family, friends, or community for which there is no kind of recourse... No one to help support the needs we have in trying to deal. Just wanted to express that sidenote.
 
Hi Tom,

Thanks for your trust in us. I hope some of the guys can give you some ideas that will be comforting at least.

Tom, one thing I see is that you are filled with anger at yourself and feel that if you are somehow punished it will have some value. That is not at all true.

Here is an idea. Think of yourself hearing a young man telling you all this stuff about himself. I am willing to bet, that you would challenge him on everything, and you would do your best to make him see the goodness within himself.

Do the same for yourself. You have been terribly harmed and it has had an awful impact on you. I wish that just being able to will it to change would work. I also wish that God would be the kind of God that would take all that stuff away from all of us. But, God seems to work trhough our brothrs and sisters of the human race--and they don't have the power to snap their fingers and clear out the debris.

If you can, my hope for you would be that you constantly tell yourself how good a person you are and how much others care for you with unmitigated respect.

Bob
 
Tom,

I can relate to your situation, as well as you can relate to mine. No, I haven't reached addiction stage, but I do have a compulsion (which, thank GOD, I haven't acted upon much. Just enough to make me guilty and miserable that they happened) that could easily become addiction if I allowed it.

I do have, thanks to genetics and upbringing, an "addictive personality" which, if I was to truly let go, could lead me to a variety of addictions. I have a tendancy to abuse alcohol, for example, which I am resisting, but it could easily be anything that is pleasurable to me.

However, Tom, if I may be so bold (and if this is hurtful, I'm sorry. I don't mean it to be that way), I think you have a self-esteem issue that relates to your abuse. My situation screwed me up so badly, I do not know what I want, or am I even sure about my sexuality. I do act out with men and could easily "fall in love" with both men and women, but what am I really? I don't know. Truth is, I should be REPULSED by the idea of sex, or even emotional intimacy, with men. But I am not. Part of me likes it. Likes it enough to consider it for the rest of my life. But if I felt so inclined, I could feel that there was something wrong with homosexuality and wish to "purge" myself of the urges.

These church groups, like Emerge, are well-meaning, but I think destructive. They could take any behavior, make it sinful and wrong, and turn you against it by putting the fear of God (literally!) into you. Thus, they can make you hate yourself and force you into a cycle of self-loathing and self-abuse.

I really don't know what your situation is beyond what you wrote. My guess is that you do NOT feel worthy of any sort of normal and healthy relationship, either with women or men, and you "like" the addictive behavior because it is your release, no matter how harmful it is to you.

I strongly suggest that you find yourself a therapist that deals both with addiction and sexuality issues. (S)he can help you understand why you do these things, make you see how worthy and valuable a person you are (indeed, you are Tom. You have a lot to say and I'd like to hear more about what you have to say), and guide you to better decisions regarding sex and sexuality.

It isn't easy, Tom, but it is doable. My heart goes out to you because I feel the same things you do. Please keep in touch and let us know how you're doing. You can even PM me if you want to talk.

I love you, brother. No strings, nothing in return.

Peace,

Scot
 
Tom
I can remember being just like you, the constant thinking about sex from the moment I woke up - 'till I went to sleep. And I hoped I'd dream about it as well.

But things have changed, and although I still have moments of struggle I haven't acted out with other men for close on six years.
My 'slips' these days are the occasional use of porn, and I don't beat myself up over that any more.
And as time goes on and I get stronger these 'slips' get further apart and easier to stop.

How did I get here?
Well, I have to say good therapy and lots of hard work.
I was lucky in getting a wonderful therapist at a charity that specializes in adult survivors. But I would say to anyone, look very hard for a therapist that specializes or at least has experience of CSA.
I realise that some places are better served than others, but at least look for a specialist therapist.

The hard work ? that was down to me. And don't read into that that I am some kind of 'wonder-guy' that went into therapy knowing what to do and having a steely determination to do it. Far from it.
I was wreck, I'd been suicidal and barely had the self respect to wash anymore.

We can do it, there's no magic to it, just acceptance of who we are, why we are like this, and a small vision of where we'd like to be. Armed with that and some support we can perform wonders. ( miracles by appointment ;) )

Dave
 
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