Brother Hospitalized

[sorryson]

Not sure where to post this.

It has been a long weekend. On Friday my brother was hospitalized. I was in a counseling session when I received word. He has been keeping to himself since all this began. He has been rambling how unfair everyone had been to him. On Friday morning he made several calls and was very incoherent. The doctors were called and advised he was in a dangerous state and needed to be under watch. The police were called and after a few hours they persuaded him to leave the house and come with them. He was put into confinement. It was determined he was potentially dangerous to himself.

My Mama was his closest kin. The doctors asked if she was competent and able to make judgments for my brother. Mama said no. My sister was named his temporary guardian. This weekend we met with his doctors. The doctors were asking us about our childhood and our Dad. I was perplexed because my brother never spoke of Dad. The doctors said he was rambling about things from his childhood. They asked did he grow up in Chicago. We said no but this led us to talk about what happened when he was younger. We went through the whole story. They asked us about Aunt XXXXX. We said she was the wife of one of our uncles. The doctor said my brother talked about how kind she was to him. How she came over and never complained or made fun of anyone. We said that is who she is. The doctors told us what he was saying and remembering about the others. The fights and complaining how each of them did more than the other. My brother said Mama was told to stay by everyone. She told us some very specific things that were said. Your brother said his grandma who was sick would tell Mama it is so wonderful to have him here, do not let him leave. My brother rambled on how Mama listened to her and all the others. He talked about late night dinners and drinking. The next day they would start complaining and how this went on every day. Your brother said he was stuck in the house. He said they talked about everything in front of him. My sister talked and said we do not know really what happened in that house because we were not there. My sister said Mamas family is secretive and pretend they were wonderful and perfect.

The doctor asked about our Dad. My sister talked and told everything from what happened in our house and how we treated Dad. She also told him about Dad being abused as a child. The doctor asked my sister first how we felt about our Mama leaving the family. My sister told she was a recovering alcoholic. She had gone to an Ivy League school and after school ran off to Chicago. The doctor asked why Chicago. My sister said she loved Chicago. But as the years went by she was underperforming and found herself living in Mamas neighborhood and being involved in Mamas church. Everyone else was moving on with life. My sister said she started to drink and drink. She was empty. Finally my sister said she went for help. In therapy she learned she ran to Chicago because she thought it was a happy place because Mama always ran there. Mama always said how wonderful it was. My sister through her doctor realized she only loved Chicago because her mother always ran back to Chicago and my sister thought she had to be there to be like Mama. My sister left and came home. My sister said it was the best thing she every did. She said she was trying to connect with Mama who had left us. The doctor said you were courageous to stand up to the past. My sister also talked about how she reconciled with Dad years ago. I was next and told my story. At the end the doctor asked how was I feeling? I said lost and realize I hurt my father because of Mama and her family. The doctor told us you mother was only behaving as she was taught. She was not strong enough to stand up to her mother, sisters and brothers. Unfortunately you children and your father suffered. Your brother had an unhealthy relationship with your mother. It sounds as though he never had friends, never left the house and has anti-social tendency.

The doctor asked how my brother behaved in the house. We looked at each other and my sister said he was like Hitler. Always screaming and telling everyone what to do. Mama would say just listen to him. My sister said Dad was the only one who tried to discipline him. Mama would turn on Dad and we followed Mama in telling Dad let him do it. She asked did your brother control me and my sister. My sister said yes and she learned this in therapy. I said I guess so. The doctor said he became the head of the house and your mother supported this. We said yes and then asked how did your father feel? She asked what we thought of the physical and verbal attacks you jointly caused your father. She asked how these attacks resurrected the memories of his sexual abuse as a child. She next asked how did you brother react as these attacks were going on. We said he would laugh and smile, and then Mama and we would begin to laugh. She said your Mama put your brother as head of the house.

This behavior over time without social interaction will cause many psychological issues. Your fathers death and your sympathies toward father and regret of what you did to him and your Mamas admittance to him what was done to your father was wrong has destroyed his world. He is no longer in charge of destroying a life. He had been brought up to destroy your father so your mother could deny her abandonment and everyone could love her. My sister said she learned this in therapy. The doctor told us my brother is not realizing his childhood was manipulated and controlled by his mother and her family. This deprived him of normal childhood friends and behaviors as well as being with his father and siblings. He was made into an adult at a young age, an age too young.

My sister and I talked afterwards. She said it is Dads death that is dredging up the past. She said is overdue and she hopes my brother will make it and see he can have a life at last. Mama is not able to see my brother. The doctors do not want her to see him because he is very angry with her. My brother is on watch and please remember him even though he was not sexually abused. He was abused in a different way.

I am hardly holding it together. I been having nightmares for the past two nights, no sleep. My wife is there and holds me. The nightmares have Mama leaving on a plane and then the teacher and I are in the classroom bathroom. Hands and his body parts all over me. I scream and wake up crying. Then in the morning I have to go talk to the doctors about my brother.

 

[victor-victim]

wow.

that was hard to read and
no doubt difficult to write and likely excruciating to experience.
you have my sympathy and support.
i hope your brother makes it through the tunnel,
if his family can be the light at the end.

 

[KMCINVA]

I am so sorry to hear of your brother's hospitalization and the difficult time you are having with abuse.

You seem to have strong support with your sister and wife. I sense you want to be there for your brother, but right now you need to be there for yourself. Your sister seems to be handling it well but hopefully her family will keep an eye on her so she remains strong.

It is sad how families believe they are loving, and I truly believe they do because that is what they are told over and over, and then they can deprive children of both a mother and father, separating them for their own selfish needs. I believe they do not see themselves as selfish but it is hard to accept when they know there are children being separated from their mother and/or father. I am glad at last your mother and brother are getting the help they so long needed. I feel for your late father, he was never given a chance with them even when he asked for help. It is sad how CSA, your father's complicated an already complicated family environment.

Sadly I see similarities in my situation, everyone else denies it and says it is in my head. I believe not, I see the behaviors, who became and was allowed to become the boss of the house, turning away from one asking for help, the attacks and so many other aspects. Like your family denial is their shield from the truth. Sadly one day the shield is piered and the hole allows the pain to rise. Sorryson, I have learned from various sessions and seminars I have attended, many families have issues and some are very similar to what you are experiencing. It is just the way families have learned to operate without realizing the consequences. People having difficulty in changing and admitting they can be wrong. I am happy your family is coming to terms with the past.

Please take care of yourself and thanking you for sharing. I know how difficult it is to face the truth of others actions and the devastating effects the actions have on other members of a suppose family. It took courage to share. I will be thinking of you, your brother and family. I hope for a healthy outcome for everyone.

Kevin

 

[wild_turky]

you can move through this, keep your heart open and stay strong brother.

 

[sorryson]

It has been a difficult few days. I saw my brother yesterday. He is not doing well. Very sad and asking questions and I have no answers. He keeps asking me about Dad. I keep telling him I did not see him for years. I told him my wife secretly had the children meet Dad and would invite him to their activities when I was out of town with work. He said she was always a good person. I am glad your children knew him. I told him our sister can tell us more about him. He said he was sad he did not know him. He asked me if I knew Dad was sexually abused as a child. I said I only learned it at his funeral. He wanted to know why he could not tell Mama. He asked was I abused. I asked why. He said he heard Mama talking to someone. I said yes. He wanted to know if it happened when Mama left. I said yes. He said he was sorry it happened to me. He then asked why did Mama leave and take him with her. I said I do not know. He was very sad and cried. He asked, why did he do those terrible things to Dad? I said I wish I could tell him and I said I also did those bad things to Dad. He just cried and said he did so much more and it made Mama happy. He said everyone took me away from Dad, you and his sister. Everyone told me Dad was mean and Mama kept telling me about what he did, about how he did not have sex with her, how demanding he was. I did not need to know that. He just cried and cried. I felt so bad for him. He is medicated.

Meanwhile my sister was in a session with Mama. The doctor is an expert in family trauma. He has spoken to me and my sister separately. Mama needs to have my sister with her during the sessions. My sister said it was a tough session. Mama had to face what she had done. The doctor told her he had read my medical reports, my sisters therapy reports and my Dads medical reports when he was hospitalized after the divorce. He said if what happened in your home years ago happened today, the medical professional would have to report your son and possible the other children for what was happening in the home. He said the children would have been removed from the home. He reminded my sister and Mama several of these acts are now criminal offenses. He also told Mama she would most likely be ordered by the courts to have counseling because she instigated and encouraged the behavior. Mama cried and he said what you did was to create a hostile and abusive environment for your children towards their father. He said it caused them to be emotionally separated from their father and this is not natural. The doctor wanted Mama to realize how severe the situation was and how it nearly destroyed the childrens life. He explained children need both parents and one does not need to be the focal point of a childs life. He said their childhood can be linked to the alcoholism, nervous breakdown and the antisocial behavior and self-injuries your son inflicted on himself.

The doctor said from the reports and speaking with the children it was a home where Mama needed to be the center of attention and when Mama returned after being away for months over the years she felt the children looked to their father. He also spoke of her need to sleep and hide from the world for several years after she returned. She created a world where Mama saw herself as a victim and conveyed these feelings to the children. He told her with four or five siblings and a father with her mother, she did not need to leave her family to tend to her mother. The doctor told Mama from what he has been told, she came from a dysfunctional family that could not respect Mama or her children and husband. Her family knew she would say yes to them and no to her husband. The children did not understand what was happening as children they craved her love. He said children will do most anything for love and not to have feelings of being abandoned.

The doctor discussed Dad. My sister gave him Dads medical report during his hospitalization several decades ago that highlighted what we now know but was not understand at that time. It appeared Dad was suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome. The doctor told her his blackouts and periods of not knowing his actions would today be classified as dissociation. My sister said the doctor told her anyone who suffered abuse as a child and then lived in a house where a wife and children abused him by recreating actions and emotions that reminded him of his childhood abuse could push him into various detached states, addictions, compulsions or other self-harming acts. My sister said Mama cried. The doctor tried to console Mama by telling her she was only responding to unrealistic expectations by her family and the guilt they created. He also said she was probably suffering from depression when she returned home after her mother had died. The doctor said it was time for Mama to face the past so she could help her son. Mama was supposedly silent. He said the number one priority is for her to work with her son and tell him she is sorry for what happened. He told Mama she needs to accept responsibility and not sugar coat her familys contribution to the situation. She said Mama needed to put her children first now. The doctor said it is time to stop blaming the childrens father, he suffered greatly in life and at your hands. Mama did not respond my sister said.

The doctor told Mama my brother has talked about things he remembers when he was taken with her to grandmas house. He said a child can lock in memories and out of nowhere they come back. The doctor said he remembers the arguing, the fighting, the drinking, and everyone telling you that you had to be there. He said you just agreed with them. My brother remembers no one ever remember my sister, me or Dad except his grandfather.

The doctor must think we are so screwed up, a sorry bunch, my brother in the hospital, my nervous breakdown, my sister a recovering alcoholic and Mamas family being selfish and controlling. I blame it all on Mamas family because they only loved themselves and had to put on a show of what great children they were by taking care of grandma. They did not think of us and we were children.

I am sad but I think hearing also has helped me. I am still struggling with the flashbacks and nightmares of the abuse. I cannot stop them and then I think of Mama and her family. I am blaming them because they took Mama away. It left me lonely and the teacher could see I was lonely. I hope I am making some progress. I keep thinking I am stuck. How could one family, generation after generation be so screwed up. I feel like I am burdening you with too much. Writing to you somehow makes me feel someone is listening. My wife listens but you guys know the pain of abuse. I am sorry if I have burdened you.

 

[KMCINVA]

Take care of yourself. You have your road to travel and your brother has his road to travel. It seems your father's death has really impacted many and hopefully in the end life is bright for all. Your mother can be a great support for your brother once she faces her own past--sounds like the doctors are pushing her because they know how important it will be in your brother's healing.

Remember you can only help others when you are in a place that you feel safe and have healed from the effects of CSA.

Keep well.

Kevin

 

[sorryson]

It has been an unusual few days. I have for some reason been feeling happy and able to focus on my healing. The distractions of the family situation and my brother are still there. I have accepted I need to get well so I can help him.

On Friday my Mama called to invite us to one of her special dinners at my sisters house. When my wife told me, I said I did not want to go. Just thinking about it brought back terrible memories. I knew we would hear how hard she worked on this dinner and how no one appreciated it. I remembered the fights, Dad would say something stupid and Mama would become irate and scream and yell. She would bring up everything from the past in front of the children. She would accuse Dad of ruining everything. She would bring us into the battle and guilt us into siding with her. I never realized this until everything that has happened over the past few weeks. Dad was not wrong, Mama was wrong and used guilt to keep us from him. She definitely had anger issues. Then my brother would start with his hurtful words and throw something at Dad. Dad would eventually just leave the table as we all laughed with my brother. I remembered this would happen at grandma and grandpas house to grandpa but not as mean. I did not want to go face a night of memories and hearing Mama complain. My wife said we needed to go.

We went to the dinner and I was afraid something would trigger the past. Mama served dinner and said she wanted to say grace. She began thanking God for everything and out of nowhere she said Eternal rest grant unto him (Dad) oh Lord and may the perpetual light shine upon him and then said may he (Dad) forgive her for what she had done to him and deprived him of his children. I was in shock and could not react. My son was with us and he stood up hugged Mama and told her Grandpa had forgiven her years ago. He knew you were only acting out of what your mother, sisters and brothers expected of you. He knew they influenced you in every way. My son also said Dad knew she needed the love of the children to replace the loss of her mother and sadly she only thought it was her and no one else. He only wished the children had received help. Mama asked my son did he know his grandfather was abused as a child. He said yes and said grandpa wished Mama had been there to help him when he asked for help as he was falling down. He told her grandpa was sad she used his asking for help to berate him and use the children to hurt him. But he said Dad only wanted the children to be healthy and happy. Mama cried. She said the doctor talked with her about this period in her life. He asked her a question, how did she feel after everyone attacked the father. She said she felt her children loved her and she had her rightful place in the home. He asked her, did she care how the children felt about their father and she said no. She said she was sorry for these feelings.

Mama pulled it together and dinner was peaceful. Mama never complained nor did she expect everyone to compliment the meal, which was delicious. Who stole my Mama? After dinner Mama said she needed to talk with all of us. It became so quiet you could hear a pin drop. She began by saying she was sorry for the past. She went on to say she was sorry for what was done to Dad by her and how she made us join in. It was wrong. She apologized for leaving. Mama said the doctor told her we felt abandoned and it was not an absence. I asked why, and he said because you had a choice and you did not need to go because so many others were there. The decision to go was made by your mother, sisters and brothers. Mama said she hated the word abandoned but realized she did abandon us and knew she should have stayed with us and her mother and sisters and brothers should have been adults and said your children and husband are the most important. But they were selfish. She said leaving your father after his heart attack was wrong. She apologized to my sister for making her feel less valuable than her mother, sisters and brothers. Mama said they had a control over her that she did not understand or realize. Then it was my turn, she said no one should have done what they did to you, and to your Dad. She told me she was sorry she was not there for me. She said all she could do was to ask for our forgiveness. My sister said it will take time, I agreed with her. Mama asked us to put her on the spot if she reverted to her old ways of guilt and control. We all said no problem. Mama continued to go through the past and the hurt she caused to Dad and us. She also said she should have listened to others who told her she needed helped. She told us the doctors said her family loved her but their way of showing love caused them to control and manipulate her. He told her this happens in many families thinking they are doing right but a child should never have to always say yes to her parents or siblings. He told her her spouse and children should have been before her mother and siblings. He said abuse is about control intentional or unintentional.

Mama told my son, I am glad your mother brought your grandfather into your life. My son started to tell a story of one activity that grandpa and his wife were to attend. Dad was out of town and grandma and were unable to attend. All of a sudden Dad and you walk in. Dad caught an early flight. He joked and said his mother was in shock. She kicked him and said go out and catch them. I knew the drill. I saw grandpa in the parking lot. I told him they were here. He said ok. Well they waited and later snuck in and went upstairs to the balcony. They saw my sister perform and no one else knew. Everyone laughed. Mama said to my wife, thank you for bringing him into their lives. Wow this was a shocker because she always thought my wife was a sap doing everything for everyone and never had a kind word for her. Mama said to my wife your heart is in the right place never expecting anything in return.

Mama asked if we could be there for her as she begins to work with my brother. We said yes and said she wants him to have a life. She also told us he should never have been housebound with me from such a young age. Mama said he should have been made to leave her side in junior high and high school.

Well it was a night I will never forget. It gave me hope anyone can change and want others to heal and be well. It took some weight off my shoulder. She did have kind words for Dad and accepted what she did to destroy our relationship with him. Never in a million years would I have expected this from her. I have been on cloud nine since that night. I think I can make it and for the past two nights I did not have a nightmare or flashback. Maybe this will help my brother get well.

 

[KMCINVA]

Sorry I missed this posting. Great news. I can relate to the nights without nightmares and flashbacks-such welcome relief. Sounds like everyone is moving in the right direction. Your son seemed to be a great mediator. You should be proud of his open mind and compassion--opened to your mother and liked the story about your father attending one of your children's activity.

Keep going and I am glad you can now focus on you and getting to the place you need to get to.

Kevin

 

[sorryson]

I want to thank you for your support. My counselor and doctor have warned me I am facing two deeply emotional and damaging acts from my past. They said each is known to contribute to mental illness, low self-esteem and other psychological and emotional issues. The first is my Mamas continued absence. Both refer to it as abandonment. I kept asking how. They both said it was a conscious decision to leave to meet the needs of other adults without regard to the needs of the children, the needs of the other adults were not a necessity because of the large number of family members who were physically there to take care of grandma, children have needs that are basic from the simple need to be loved and the presence of the mother and father. When this presence is broken the cycle of the childs emotional and psychological development is impacted, for some children it is stifled, for others it creates a yearning for love at any cost, for others low self esteem which can lead to addictions and self harm. And the second being my sexual abuse and we all know the damaging effects of it. They both said my sisters addictions, my brothers anti-social behavior, the lack of involvement and extensive and unhealthy sleep routines in our childhood are all signs of mental and psychological issues my family encouraged and accepted in response to the abandonment. They both said we were conditioned by Mama to think a certain way, to believe she was the most important and to inject ourselves into their personal battles on her behalf.

They both asked at the time of my nervous breakdown why I did not speak of what happened in the family and spoke only of the sexual abuse. I said I did not think Mama and what happened was a problem. They said it was a major contributor to the nervous breakdown because I believe the abuse resulted because Mama was not there. My brother I gather is dealing with the same issues of abandonment except he overcompensated and became Mamas little man. He replaced Dad, and they said this boundary should never be crossed. I think that is so sad and the more I learn the more I feel sick and guilty for having abandoned Dad like Mama abandoned us. The doctor said this is actually a third situation that is impacting me. I am beginning to understand and connect the dots of the troubles that began because Mama left. I hated when they said I was conditioned by Mama, I felt like a dog being trained for show.

My brother is stable and Mama is not able to see him. They said it will be awhile. With the state of health care they want to discharge him in two weeks. He needs supervision. Dads youngest brother and his wife have volunteered. She worked in the public juvenile detention system as a psychiatric nurse. We remember her but once Mama and Dad were on the outs Dads family were not allowed and for that matter they were never really welcomed before that. They called my sister and offered to help. They will have to stay in Mamas house with my brother and Mama will remain with my sister. Mama even gave her blessing. Where are the louses that destroyed Dad and took Mama away? Still bitching about all they did, how rotten Dad and just saying my brother just needs to get over it he is a grown man. They still say my sexual abuse did not affect me because I was so young.

For me I am doing better and I am beginning to understand how interwoven all these situations are in my jumbled up mind. Some days they make sense other days not so much sense. I know it will take time and I am trying not to become too involved in my brothers situation. I just want to know he will be alright.

 

[KMCINVA]

Sorryson,

I am happy to hear your brother has been stabilized. You doctor and therapist seem to be honest but blunt and open with you about your situation.

You dislike for the word "conditioned" hit me. I did not like the word when it was used by doctors and therapist. Then I heard the word spoken from a non-medical professional. I have been meeting with attorneys to determine how, when and if to move forward with the Diocese. I was having lunch with the attorney and we were talking about my situation and the family environment. He said my life was filled with more "twists" than most will ever know. I was puzzled. He went through the abuse, the memories and guilt of my brother, the mugging in NYC, a priest falling into my groin, syncope and blacking out, nightmares, flashbacks, sleep walking,my home environment, having to visit the place of the abuse to bury my Mom, the dissociation and fugues. I said I guess but others have lived worse. He reminded me it is all bad. He reminded me the Diocese has come a long way in accepting the impact of CSA from addictions, compulsions, acting out, dissociation, depersonalization but accepting these are based on science. However, they are still trying to protect the image of the church and this is what creates the conflict between the church and the victim.

We talked about the medical reports and what was contained in them. They contained the medical diagnosis, the history of the abuse, the dissociation and specific events that happened in the home. They were similar to what happened to your father and I can understand his life long pain. The lawyer asked did any of them seek help, I said one child went to rehab and I believe the addiction is controlled. He asked did the child address the underlying issue for the addiction. I said I do not know. He asked did anyone seek help for the anger that led to physical and verbal attacks to person and property, isolation, verbal threats, invasion of property and so on . I said no because they see nothing wrong with these acts. I said I know only they can open their minds to accept these acts and words were my triggers but I no longer need to hear the words from them. I know what happened and I only hope they face the past sooner rather than later. The longer the secrecy, the lie and denial the more debilitating the impact. Unless like someone said one has sociopath tendencies then it becomes irrelevant. He commented it takes courage to seek help and I should pat myself on the back for what I have overcome. I thanked him and he said, be proud you deserve the best. Wow I guess at times I underestimate what I have overcome and achieved in healing.

He said in some families, parents try to hide their deficiencies, weaknesses, absences, depression, etc. He said when you look at these families you will find they implode because the secrecy, the lying, the denying eat at them until they explode. You will find alcoholism, drug addictions, criminal records, anti-social behavior, violence either verbal or physical, social isolation, lack of friends outside the family and other conditions that impact their ability to thrive and engage in life. He said in his line of work, you can tell when children and adults are denying or hiding a secret to protect a parent or sibling. He said ultimately they find one family member with the conscience who can no longer deny what has happened. It splits the family, some come to terms with the past, the controlling environment and underlying issue as to why they were conditioned to deny, lie or to turn on others to protect the false world that was created. We talked and I was honest and told him what I saw and perceived from addictions, isolation to anger. We talked about parental absence and everything that followed. He asked was implosion happening in my family. He said the conditioning started long before the impact of your CSA became known.

He said conditioning is needed to hide the other issues that were out in the open but denied by the family. Sadly the extended family also plays a role in the secret and denial. He told me he always advocates counseling so those involved can regain their lives. He said many do not accept the advice until something tragic happens. His message was the same that I have heard from doctors, therapist and in support. Amazing the obvious is not so obvious when we are part of the situation.

I thought of you. You have lived this and I thought of your sister. She broke from the chain of control while you grappled with it and the CSA. She not only freed herself from the addiction but also freed herself from the issues of her childhood that were created from your mother's absence. I have heard many free themselves from the addiction but do not face the underlying issues. Your brother unfortunately was the best conditioned to act what he believed your mother wanted and believed she needed. It was destructive to the children, your father and even your mother. I hope my children seek help before they have to face it so late in life. I know I hold responsibility as do so many others in creating this environment. I realize I should have put my foot down and should have stood up and stopped the trips and nagging from the siblings. I did not and now understand whyI was hiding my past, the secrecy was eating at me, like their secrecy and denial will eat at them. It is a vicious cycle. I am happy your family is facing it. I am sorry it had to come after the death of your father and your brother had to suffer so much.

I believe we are all conditioned from birth. Parents do the best and believe it is out of love but they only relive what they have learned and experienced unless they receive support and guidance. I now understand denial and secrecy lead to more pain and hurt, as I did with the CSA. I guess conditioning is an appropriate word for how we learn to live.

Your situation resonates with me and I feel your pain from a situation that spiraled out of control. I am no longer in pain and my journey to healing from the CSA has progressed to a point that it no longer controls or dominates my life. You are moving in this direction by facing your issues, 3 I believe you mentioned. As the lawyer said, be proud of what you achieve in healing, because it is hard work.

Kevin

 

[sorryson]

Kevin I hope your children do get help now. I can tell them the longer they wait the more painful it will be for them. They will miss out on so much in life. My doctor told me this problem in families is more common and is kept silent.

The doctor and I talked to my counselor about this. I learned in marriage when a wife or husband puts their parents and sisters and brother before the wife or husband and children it will surely break up a marriage. Also was told the children feel like they are lesser than the grandparents and aunts and uncles to the mother or father. This starts so much trouble. The parent who put their parents, sisters and brothers before their wife or husband and children feels left out of the children's life as well as the spouses. Somehow, I am not sure why, that parent uses the children, sort of brainwashes them to love them and dislike and hurt the other parent.

The child does not realize this is happening and I do not think the parent realizes how mean this is. The doctor says it gets worse over time and the children become screwed up. My family had the alcoholism, my sister could not keep friends for a long time because she was depressed and allowed to sleep all day, my brother never had a friend and did not even go to social activities, I struggled never trusting anyone. We all had one thing in common, to hurt Dad so Mama would smile and tell us she loves us and would be there for us. She always told us the bad things about Dad and somehow convinced us to hate him. Mama told us things only a husband and wife should know. Dad was always the bad guy. The doctor said Mama never put Dad first in her life. She was too controlled by her parents and sisters and brothers. The doctor said Mama did not have a healthy relationship with her sisters, brothers and mother. It was all talk of love, and there was love and their own need to be loved and to control each other. The doctor said this happens in many families.

My sister was the smart one, she got help and tried to tell me what Mama had done. I was stupid even as an adult to believe no damage came from Mama treating Dad the way he was treated. The abuse and the family crap really screwed me up. I now know Mama never treated Dad right and her mother, sisters and brothers were more important to her than Dad and even us. We were the pawns in Mama's family game of chess.

Please find a way for your children to get help. The anger and violence, and yes it happened in our house and Mama saw no wrong because it was directed at Dad. Your lawyer's question had implosion begun is a good one. I would say it has and they do not even know it. I did not know it and did not listen to my sister and wife who knew we were bitter and destructive for no good reason other than having been brainwashed by Mama.

I can tell you my wife saved me from being far worse off. She always put me first and then our children. She balanced what she needed to do for her mother and father with her sisters and brother. All shared so not to overburden one child. Now her parents did it right and Mama and her family did not know this way. I hope you find a way to get your children help. Can you talk to their mother and explain how the children need help. I know their mother may not want to admit what happened but if she loves the children she will do the right thing. Mama said the other day, she wished she knew what she knew today becaus she would never have done or allowed the things that hurt Dad and us so badly. She even said she would have told her mother and sisters and brothers that Dad and us were her priority and she would not have left us like she did. She cried and asked how could I leave my children when their father was still recovering from a heart attack. She said she had to be the worse wife ever to do this to her husband. She even admitted she did not have to go but everyone expected her to be there.

I guess we have plenty of company in this world of screwed up families because children are used against the other parent. It makes me sad. I am glad I did not marry a woman like my mother and I thought I would have because Mama put herself on the petestal of the perfect mother. I could scream. Do not let your children suffer like we have.

I only can hope you get through to the children and maybe their mother that they all need help. Let me know how things turn out.

P

 

[KMCINVA]

P

Thank you and I am glad to see you are not using sorryson. A good sign.

I hold little hope that I can persuade the children to get help. They are so ingrained with misinformation and I highly doubt they can face the truth. I had to make a long list of what happened in the home as part of my therapy--and when I look at the list I am in disbelief. But it seems I am the only one who finds the acts to be abnormal. They believe these behaviors would not impact someone struggling with the past, CSA, PTSD, dissociation and everything else that comes with the abuse. To others, they see individuals crying for help, those doing the acts and those laughing and encouraging such acts. I accept what may have happened during the dissociation but I am still troubled about the lost time and lack of memories that come with the lost time. I know what the triggers were that put me into these states. I know this impacts the children. I believe their denial is as strong as my denial was about the abuse. I know what denial and keeping the secret did to me and I see what their denial is doing to them.

I do not know how to get the point across and we do not speak. For me, the doctors and T thought it would be best to distance my self from and not attempt to reconnect. I was told rejection is part of their control and their attacks was preventing me from healing. I am happy not being subject to attacks and to be honest, I have been able to heal being away from the environment that triggered and reminded me of the abuse in the cellar. You once said your sister told your father knew he needed to distance himself from his children. I can only guess it was the only way he could heal and not be subject to the verbal abuse that reminded him of his own childhood sexual abuse.

Victims need to find the right environment to heal, one that offers support and compassion but with boundaries.

If you father had tried to encouraged you to seek help, how would you have reacted? What could he have done or said that would have let you see what was happening in your house was not "normal" and help was needed. You sat on the other side, could you just give me some direction. I do not want the children to continue without the opportunity to live life to the fullest. This weekend my friend is back for a few days, so I will have a sounding board to bounce some ideas. She has a good sense about people.

Thank you and I appreciate your support.

Kevin

 

[sorryson]

Kevin I am not sure how to answer your questions. I thought about what would have made me go get help. I noticed you did not mention their mother. I thought about that too. Mama could not have been a source of help because she fed off what her sisters and brothers were saying about Dad. They also told us to hate Dad that he was no good and he hurt Mama. Now maybe the were the pot calling the kettle black. They were the ones who hurt Mama, Dad and us. I only realized this when Dad died and my brother was nearly lost. None asked why Dad was doing what he was supposedly doing. Now we know because of the hospital reports, doctors, professionals and from my sister talking with Dad. So Mama was out because those siblings would have done whatever they could to maake others look bad, when they were the bad ones.

I do not know who could have made me see what was right. I was stuck on keeping Mama happy I could not see the truth or did not know the truth then. I asked my sister your questions. She said it took her years of wasting her life. She spent 8 years in Chicago trying to find out why Mama was so happy there. She said these 8 years destroyed her by trying to recapture why Mama left us for Chicago. She said if someone had shaken us maybe she would have woken up. I asked her who could have done this. She said Dads family tried to talk to us but Mama would always put them down. Maybe a teacher, a doctor, or someone outside. We both then concluded it would have taken Mama to tell us the truth why she left and made us feel we needed to hate Dad. I guess there is no one else that we can suggest. I know Mama would have denied. I do not know what to tell you. My doctor and counselor have said when a child is taught to alienate a parent it is hard to undo the damage. They both said sometimes the damage is so great the child never recovers and their life is full of bitterness and hate. Mama had that bitterness and hate in her heart. She was brought up in a family that found the bad in everything and everyone.

I think their mother is the answer. Does she want them to be like my family and other families I met in a support group, does she want her children not to find the life they should have, does she want the children to be isolated and without long term friends, does she need to be the center of their universe. If the answer is yes, then the children will never be happy and fulfilled. Find someone who can get through to her. I think there was one brother, the college professor, who could have helped but he would have had to go against all of them. He was the blacksheep of the family. He found the good in everyone and would not laugh at others troubles. He does not see himself as perfect like therest of them. Does their mother have someone like this in her life?

I will keep thinking because I look at my brother and see how he was almost gone because of what your children and you had to live. Please find a way to save them. There are support groups out there to help, there are doctors and counselors. It sounds like they do not have friends which I now know is a sign of troubled children. Friends can be great support but you have to have them. My brother and sister did not have friends. My sister had friends for short periods than her laziness and need to constantly sleep drove them away. Today she has a wonderful circle of real friends because she faced what had happened to her. I had a few friends but none like she has today. You may have to talk to their mother and go through the list of what was done to you, talk about the childrens lives, their lack of friends, lack of activities and need to find help. I cry when I think of my lost childhood and much of my adult life all because of selfish adults. I do not want to see others cry like I have.

 

[sorryson]

My visit to the home of my Dads wife was truly more that I had expected. I only had met her twice in my life, first at my sisters wedding renewal on her 15th anniversary and at my Dads funeral. I was standoffish to her on both occasions. She invited my sister and her husband and my wife and I. My sister and her husband knew her well. We arrived and I was taken back on how she made us feel so at ease. She had a great wit, beautiful smile and a soothing voice. We talked and talked.

She asked how my mother was doing as well as my brother. You could see she had concern for them and their wellbeing. I asked her did Dad ever tell her why he totally turned from us. She said he loved each and every one of you. He was sad when he was not included in events but knew it was for the best. She said he wanted to help and once many years ago he called your mother. He said he wanted to help with your brothers training costs. He said he would only do this if my brother went for help about the relationship and his personal issues. Your mother told your father he was the only one with issues. My sister and I looked at each other and laughed. I said look at us today, we are a mess. My Dads wife said do not be harsh on yourself or judge your mother. Dads wife told us her story. She came from a very similar family. Her mother was kind and good but for some reason she could not let her parents or siblings go. She told us she remembers as a child her mother always spoke of her sisters and brothers with such reverence, espousing how wonderful they were as people. She never spoke of her father this way and never allowed him to complete a story about his life and travels. He had lead an interesting life and she only learned of it after he passed. She told us her mothers sisters and brothers were the apples of her eye, they did no wrong. They were allowed to correct us, make plans for us even if they conflicting with my fathers plans and would hijack every event with outlandish gifts or a pre party celebration even though my parents had planned a wonderful event for our birthday, communion, graduation or other personal event. My father would be upset and my mother would say, what can I do? My sister and I once again looked at each other and nodded our heads. She also told us her mother was away for long periods of time to take care of her mother. She told us her father had a blood disease and was limited in his activities. He always made sure we had clean clothes and dinner on the table. Her mother like your mother did not need to spend as much time there as she did. It was the same story. Dads wife also told us she was the oldest and some of the burden fell on her.

Dads wife told us she went off to college and was sad because the friends she made were the first true ones she had in life. She told us she had never been to sleep overs, did not have a best friend that she confided in as a child. She said her sisters also did not have real friends as a child. They had friends but not close friends. She told us she studied psychology in college and then became a psychologist. She said she learned parents need to understand boundaries. She said her mother did not nor did her sisters and brothers understand boundaries. She had to put boundaries in place when she married her first husband (who had died before she married Dad). She told her sisters and brothers they were not to butt into how they were raising their children, they were not to schedule events or activities for the children unless both she and her husband approved and to remember her husband and her were the childrens parents. She said her family was at first mad and finally accepted it. She said her children knew she and her husband stood together and neithers family was going to come between them. She said they had their problems but worked it out together as a husband and wife should.

It became difficult when her mother became ill. She lived in Philadelphia. She had two sisters and a brother and she told them she would help as needed. They lived very close to the mother and father. She went the first time and ended up spending almost 5 weeks there. She said she realized her sisters and brothers went to work, went to an anniversary party, out to dinner, to their childrens plays, basketball and tennis. She said enough of this. She put her foot down and told them she would come for one week every five or six weeks. She said they were angry and complained they could not do it all. She told us she let them have it. She went through everything they did while she stayed with mother and was away from her husband and children. She said things were frosty. Shortly before her mother passed the mother told her, I admire the courage you had to stand up to your sisters and brother, because I could not have done it. She told me she was sorry about leaving me to take care of her mother and leaving her to help care for your Dad, sisters and brothers. She told me it was wrong of her and I made a better marriage for my husband than she had because she let her family tell her what to do. One of my sisters heard this and said to me, you fooled mother. I let her have it and told her I have been here every four or five weeks for 7 to 10 days. You slept with your husband, you went home to your children, went to their school events, basketball games. I did not see my children nor did I sleep with my husband while I was here. I babysat your children. Do not tell me I did not do anything or sacrifice. I told her my husband and children sacrificed, did yours? She shut up and began to cry. She said she was jealous that I was able to put my husband first and still help others. She said she let her husband down. My sister and I told her I wish our Mama had done what you had done.

She said from her education and practice she knew how important family boundaries are in sustaining a healthy relationship. My sister and I have learned we were a family without boundaries. Mama and more correctly her family controlled our lives. They took Mama from us and Dad was always the scapegoat. We told Dads wife this is how we felt. She said do not judge her, she was only reacting to what she knew, how she grew up. She told us children learn the rules quite young and some are fortunate to escape and learn the rules were founded on love but can deprive the child of an ability to grow and flourish. She said no parent or sibling should ever expect a child to compromise their time, love and presence with their husband and own children. If they do, the boundaries are once again broken. She told us our mother loved us and love for her was defined by what she learned as a child and how her siblings treated her.

She said she was sorry for digressing but this relates to why your father then choose not to give financial support. He learned from counseling and his psychiatrist he needed to set boundaries. He had tried to reconnect with you but there was never a response. He learned ignoring someone is a method of control and you were trying to control him. He knew he could not be under the control of those that hurt him. I am sorry but that is how he felt. My sister and I both said we understood and realize what we did to him was abusive. She said the professionals working with your father also told him that he must not become an enabler to future harm. If your father had given money, it would have been a short term fix because the dysfunction that existed in the family and the relationships was not addressed. Once the fix wore off there would have been more abuse and expectation for more fixes. He knew he needed to establish boundaries. My sister and I both told her we have heard the same in our sessions and totally understand. I said I asked the question because I was afraid he stopped giving because he did not love us. She said he loved you dearly.

She stood up and went into the other room. She came back with three books. She handed on to me and one to my sister. I opened it and saw pictures and newspaper clippings. The clippings were of activities, awards and promotions for both me, my wife and children. The pictures I did not expect to see. The first was from my wedding. She told us my Dad and her dressed up as being part of the church cleaning crew. Your Dad had on a gray wig and moustache. He staid to the side. He snapped that picture when you said I do. Then the picture of our first dance. She told us he gave the chef in the kitchen a few dollars and he let us stand at the door. When you started your first dance he quickly snapped a picture. I asked my wife, did she know he had been there. She said he never told her. Dads wife said he hoped one day to be able to tell you directly and that is why he kept it a secret. She said to my sister he did the same at your wedding. But my sister already knew. Dads wife said I can tell you he was sad he did not walk you down the aisle. He was over the moon when you asked him to walk you down the aisle on your 15th renewal. There were pictures of the childrens baseball game, dance recitals graduations and other activities. My wife said she knew he had been to some of these activities but not all. Dads wife told us he became a master of disguise. He would sneak in and she would tag along to watch from afar so as not to be noticed. My sister was more fortunate, Dad was able to be out in the open with her family. I was so moved by this book, I could feel his love and believed he did love me despite what I did. The third book was for my brother. She said it may not be the right time to give it to him. She gave it to my sister and told her she would know when the time was right.

She told us, remember this was your fathers home and you are welcome anytime. She asked if I wanted to walk around the house. I said yes, I looked at pictures, there were some of us that were in the books. His wife said he was said he did not have any pictures of you when you were young. I asked why and she said I gather they were not available to him. He had asked but was told he was not part of the childrens lives. He did not want to start a fight. He was hurt.

Looking at the pictures of him with his wifes children and grandchildren made me realize what I missed out on. Ironically I felt my Dads love and presence for the first time in decades. I guess he never really left me even though I left him. Knowing his love was always there, removes a burden from my heart. My doctor and counselor said I am now ready to move beyond Dad and face the sexual abuse. I guess Dads passing was his way to help me live and move ahead. Thank you Dad and I am sorry I was not there for you and thank you for being here for me. Dad I promise I will get over the abuse like you did and build a life you did after us.

 

[tbkkfile]

Dear sorryson your post has made me cry, it has reminded me of my own Mother and Father in some of the things that you have written and some of things that they did.

Wishing you peace, happiness and healing

David

 

[KMCINVA]

Wonderful post. I am glad you found your father's love. Your father's wife sounds as though she is a wise and kind person and I hope she brought your father happiness. She seems to understand the importance of spouse and children first. Your father was a true father, did everything in silence expecting little in return, even when he was outside your life. Cherish the book and remember he was part of your life and the love he had for you.

Now you can focus on your next step in healing, the CSA. Good luck and heal well. I also hope your brother finds peace along with your mother.

Kevin

 

[sorryson]

Yesterday I did something and I do not know where I found the courage to do it. I called my Dads wife and asked if I could come over and talk to her. Since we were at her home a few days ago I had this nagging question, how did Dad handle his childhood sexual abuse and how did he overcome the pain and what we did to him.

My wife drove me over. We went inside and Dads wife was so welcoming once again. My wife excused herself so we could talk. I said she should stay and she no it was time for me to learn about my Dad. I told her I wanted to know about Dads abuse. She told me when I had my nervous breakdown several years ago, my Dad wanted to talk with me and share what he had been through. I know he called and talked to my wife and I wanted nothing to do with him. His wife said he understood your feelings and would not push you. She started to tell me about Dad and his abuse. She said she had met my Dad 24 years ago. He was suffering in silence and one day he disappeared. I could not find him nor could anyone else. After almost two weeks he calls. He tells me he is in the hospital 70 miles from here and had no idea how he got there. He told me he was found wandering the streets and somehow he must have passed out. They had him under observation for a week and he finally was able to call. He asked if I could come and see him. I said yes, my heart was pounding what happened to this poor man. When I arrived I was met by his doctor. He said your father gave permission for the doctors to speak to me. The doctors told me he had some type of amnesia. He had no memory of what happened for several days. They examined him for physical trauma and there was none. The psychiatrist spent time with him and believed he was hiding something, a dark secret and this secret was hurting him. You must remember this was 24 years ago and trauma was only beginning to be studied. The psychiatrist said this secret was causing him to have the memory lapses, your Dad was trying to escape the pain. I asked, what was the secret? They said they have limited information and it would be up to your father to tell me. I saw your father, he looked so different, so lost. I went in and held his hand. He said I looked great. We talked very little and I just asked him how he was feeling.

He was transferred to a local hospital and I would visit him every day. Some people thought I was crazy to be involved with him. I just knew there was something good about him. He had wonderful doctors and a psychiatrist who was on the cutting edge. He worked with your Dad even after he was an outpatient. Your Dad respected this man and eventually opened up and told him the whole story. It was at least nine months before he told me what happened with the Brother at his school. He cried and I held him. He did not give any details but for someone to hurt a child broke my heart. We went to a few joint sessions so I could learn about the impact the abuse had on his life. Being a psychologist I could understand but trauma was something I knew so little about. I learned so much from them. Your father then told me about his memory loss and what he supposedly did during those times. He said he does not remember anything and that is not who he was. He also opened up about what was happening in the home. He told me he remembers one time hot oatmeal being thrown on him and then not having any memory of what happened for about an hour or two. There was the times he was locked out of the house, in the garage. He said he felt trapped, even though the garages doors could be opened, he believed they were sealed tight, like he did when Bro. would take into the cloak room and abuse him. I spoke with his doctors and other psychiatrists and learned they believed he was telling the truth. They said with what people had done to him in his home were traumatic and somehow the acts would remind him of the abuse he suffered as a child. They called it a flashback. The past was so painful for him that he somehow lost memory of who he was. Some of my family were skeptics. I did not let them dissuade me. I am so glad I did not give in. They all came to love him and realized what happened to him could have killed him. Several began to read about the abuse and after the sexual abuse scandals in the church broke and most came to understand he was telling the truth about the loss of memory. I had 21 years of wonderful wedded bliss. We had a strong emotional and physical relationship. I am so glad I had him in my life. My children would laugh at his disguises to see his grandchildren, they admired how he gave to help the children at the advocacy center, they admired that he was always up and about helping others, he was the only grandfather my grandchildren knew. He wanted to do many things for you. He couldnt because he would be enabling you to bring more hurt and harm to him. That was his biggest regret in life.

She said over the years we learned so much about trauma and how it affected your father. We learned about dissociation, depersonalization, PTSD and neuroplasticity (I asked her to explain this one to me). She shared everything she knew. She told me my years with my Dad were an adventure and journey. He wanted so much to know why he acted the way he did so many years ago, why he have states of amnesia and most importantly he wanted to help children who were abused escape the long term consequences by receiving help at a young age. I would go with him to the center, to fundraisers and he would play Santa at the Center every year. He loved to see the smile on the childrens faces. She said her children started bringing the grandchildren. It was so good for the young children to see not all children have a good life. It helped shape them and most of them still do volunteer work. He left them a legacy of giving to others in need or help or in despair. I was so proud at that moment to say I was this mans son. She smiled and said you are. I hear your concern for your brother and mother, your father would be proud of you for wanting to support and help them. You have him in you.

She also told me my Dad was very insecure when we were first married. Everytime my family called he had this fear I would leave. I told him over and over he was my main man, my main person in life. Over time he realized he was important to me. This was important to your Dad. He had been left so many times, when he was recovering from a heart attack to hearing what he did was not sufficient in others absences. She told me my Dad knew when it was necessary and essential and not by guilt to allow others to be with their families. He was a good man, a man I admired and cannot believe he survived everything he experienced. I could tell she truly loved him.

Dads wife was honest. She said Dad knows what he supposedly did while he was trying to come to terms with the abuse hurt those around him. He also learned over the years much of it was triggered from the environment that was created in the home. Today, she said people understand an abusive environment can be destructive to a person who was sexually abused as a child. She apologized but there is no other way of saying it. I told her I understood and we were wrong and only now I realized it was abuse. My sister accepted it long ago and said Dad held no grudges. She said my Dad did not blame the children because they were only following the adults and he knew his children were still struggling with having been left by their mother for long periods of time. He wanted you to get help but did not have support from the other adults.

I told her I was in counseling trying to get over by own abuse. She said that was wonderful and I had a strong partner who would be there for me. Your Dad would be so proud of you she told me. I asked her some questions about the abuse, how long did it go on for, did he ever see his abuser again and did he ever tell anyone about it before he broke down? She answered every question and if she did not know she would say so. I asked did Dad ever tell you what he would have said if I had let him visit during my breakdown. She said he would have held you and let you know he understood your pain. I was sad. Once again he was a good man that I threw out of my life for the wrong reasons. Anyone here, if you are estranged from someone you love, get over it and talk before it is too late. At least try so you have no regrets. Remember why you are estanged, it is not always so black and white. I did not try to meet him halfway and I will carry this regret for the rest of my life. At least I am learning and sensing my Dad loved me.

I have this need to know more about him. His wife said anytime I wanted to talk she was here for me. I have so many questions. She asked about Mama and my brother. She said they are in her prayers. I believe she is sincere. Dad got a good one.

 

[KMCINVA]

I am glad you are finding the needed support. Sounds like your stepmother is helping you connect with your father. It is great to have someone like her in your corner. Good luck and thank you for sharing.

Kevin

 

[sorryson]

Kevin I never thought to call Dad's wife my stepmother until you used the word in your post. I received a private message and someone wrote this about her, sounds like a great person wish there were more people like that in the world. That person is right, she talks from the heart and not the mouth. I wish Mama and her family knew the difference. I realize I was always so sick of hearing them talk about doing something for someone. I would hear over and over how the made dinner for a family who was sick or where someone was dying or how they gave so much time to this or that and blah blah blah and no one appreciated what they did. They expected an award and if no one acknowledged they had done something they talked about it over and over. I now realize they just wanted others to say how good they were and how they gave to everyone. They did not give they only wanted to receive praise. They talked from the mouth and not the heart.

I regret not having let Dad and his wife into my heart years ago. I know she would have made a wonderful stepmother. She may have taught my brother and I the true virtues of kindness and goodness. I know she will be there to help me. I need this now.