breaking piont ... no apology ... do they ever tak
breaking piont ... no apology ... do they ever tak
- Thread starterselene
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Registrant
I'm sorry to read about this latest episode in your relationship Selene.
There is NO excuse for violence - that applies to survivors too. It's just not acceptable.
Your husband obviously has huge issues to deal with and you're showing an enormous amount of support and understanding for him, but if he's not at the point yet where he's ready to be honest with himself (let alone you) then you don't have to take this shit from him in the meantime.
I'm not saying you should split up, but maybe a bit of time-out?
My thoughts are with you
SB x
There is NO excuse for violence - that applies to survivors too. It's just not acceptable.
Your husband obviously has huge issues to deal with and you're showing an enormous amount of support and understanding for him, but if he's not at the point yet where he's ready to be honest with himself (let alone you) then you don't have to take this shit from him in the meantime.
I'm not saying you should split up, but maybe a bit of time-out?
My thoughts are with you
SB x
Hopeful wife
Registrant
Hi Selene
I'm sorry to read what you are going through. I haven't followed your story completely but from what I gather your husband has been acting out with men. My husband made a similar disclosure (after being caught)in January this year. It may interest you to read some of my initial posts and the reply's. You may also want to look for the posts of a member named Rayne who went through the same thing just before I did.
If you want to P.M. me at some point, please feel free.
I'm sorry to read what you are going through. I haven't followed your story completely but from what I gather your husband has been acting out with men. My husband made a similar disclosure (after being caught)in January this year. It may interest you to read some of my initial posts and the reply's. You may also want to look for the posts of a member named Rayne who went through the same thing just before I did.
If you want to P.M. me at some point, please feel free.
Selene,
I am so so sorry you are going through this, it sounds awful indeed.....
I have no idea what to advise you should do, that's got to be a personal decision and such a difficult one at that.
I too feel that my bf has not really shown remorse for his behaviour, although it doesn't really compare to what your husband's been up to. It is true and important to affirm the abuse was in no way their fault, and also the acting out caused from this, BUT just like you say, they should still take resonsibility for the behaviour, show some understanding of what we're going through etc. I feel my bf tends to be more sorry for himself and takes any need on my part for understanding of some need to be reassured/appologised to as if i am shaming him in some way. I have NEVER put shame into the picture and it's not the way I feel about it at all, I just feel decieved, lied to and unsure of who I'm living with. I feel like you do, that he tells me things he thinks I want to hear in order to avoid difficult or uncomfortable situations between us. Consistently I have felt that I'm not being given relevant details about things which affect my right to make my own decisions based on the truth.(that has also applied to our children)
I can only say that I hope your husband becomes less abusive to you and to take very good care of yourself and know that NONE of this is in any way your fault. The person who has been decieptful has to own that responsibility, regardless of the influences which caused it. In my own personal experience of being confused, lying etc, I never expected less than that from myself.......maybe it's different for men? Or different for each individual?
Take good care,
peace
Beccy
I am so so sorry you are going through this, it sounds awful indeed.....
I have no idea what to advise you should do, that's got to be a personal decision and such a difficult one at that.
I too feel that my bf has not really shown remorse for his behaviour, although it doesn't really compare to what your husband's been up to. It is true and important to affirm the abuse was in no way their fault, and also the acting out caused from this, BUT just like you say, they should still take resonsibility for the behaviour, show some understanding of what we're going through etc. I feel my bf tends to be more sorry for himself and takes any need on my part for understanding of some need to be reassured/appologised to as if i am shaming him in some way. I have NEVER put shame into the picture and it's not the way I feel about it at all, I just feel decieved, lied to and unsure of who I'm living with. I feel like you do, that he tells me things he thinks I want to hear in order to avoid difficult or uncomfortable situations between us. Consistently I have felt that I'm not being given relevant details about things which affect my right to make my own decisions based on the truth.(that has also applied to our children)
I can only say that I hope your husband becomes less abusive to you and to take very good care of yourself and know that NONE of this is in any way your fault. The person who has been decieptful has to own that responsibility, regardless of the influences which caused it. In my own personal experience of being confused, lying etc, I never expected less than that from myself.......maybe it's different for men? Or different for each individual?
Take good care,
peace
Beccy
Brokenhearted
Registrant
Selene, I hate to read of any physical meanness going on... I know emotions are high and this is so hard to deal w/ for both you and he.
As for his lack of remorse, the only thing I can say is that I KNOW his thinking is distorted right now....until a survivor gets very far along in healing, they simply really cannot see the pain of another human being b/c they are so covered up in their own. I believe this is something that you will have to be very patient about - his thinking is distorted, Selene, so he cannot accurately assess things as you can.
He may be trying to push you away since he probably feels he doesn't deserve you anyway. This morning I told my husband, "I don't care how much you push me away, how crappy you treat me, I'm not going anywhere." Now, there is a limit of course to what I will take, but I'm reassuring him that I'm here through this whole ugly ordeal, however long it takes. WHen he pushes me away it hurts like ____ and makes me wonder if he even still loves me or if it's worth it....but I have to remember he's in a VERY different place than I am, and sometimes survivors will sabotage good things in their lives b/c they don't believe they deserve them anyway, or maybe they think we will leave first so they go ahead and withdraw. It's a push-pull, and very childish.
My therapist suggested perhaps there could be some "borderline personality" traits going on in my husband and told me to read up on them. They are very push-pull too.
No, don't let him be physically mad at you. It's ok for him to be angry or whatever but NOT ok to touch you in anger. It is time to draw that boundary RIGHT NOW.
Get him a punching bag maybe. I've already envisioned one hanging in our garage one day in case my husband ever needs one to vent on.
Again, I'm sorry for the volatile rollercoaster. You are going to be the only consistent one here. It is like "tough love" of a teenager. One of you has to be the strong, consistent one and it has to be you. I know it is hard. Give it some more time....remember, don't make any big decisions about leaving while in the midst of such high emotions or distress or depression.
And to me, yes, it's hard to know of such infidelity - but 5 or 500 times it's all the same really. YOu cannot get caught up in the number. It stinks but doesn't help anything.
YOu're still in the crisis stage. You will have severe ups and downs and then it should level out a little, but not for a while. I've been on and off in crisis stage since 5 months ago, and it is just now starting to level out a little. Progress is slow so it's easy to lose sight of it. I still think y'all have a great chance of surviving this together. Remember, emotionally he's like a little kid and WILL say things that will hurt you, but BEHIND THE ANGER IS ALWAYS SADNESS AND FEAR. He'll push you away to see how committed you are to him, to see if you are really willing to get through this w/ him. I cannot imagine that he'd really want to lose his family. Again, his thinking is distorted too. I think it will be a while before he'll have clarity of thought. Hang in there.
As for his lack of remorse, the only thing I can say is that I KNOW his thinking is distorted right now....until a survivor gets very far along in healing, they simply really cannot see the pain of another human being b/c they are so covered up in their own. I believe this is something that you will have to be very patient about - his thinking is distorted, Selene, so he cannot accurately assess things as you can.
He may be trying to push you away since he probably feels he doesn't deserve you anyway. This morning I told my husband, "I don't care how much you push me away, how crappy you treat me, I'm not going anywhere." Now, there is a limit of course to what I will take, but I'm reassuring him that I'm here through this whole ugly ordeal, however long it takes. WHen he pushes me away it hurts like ____ and makes me wonder if he even still loves me or if it's worth it....but I have to remember he's in a VERY different place than I am, and sometimes survivors will sabotage good things in their lives b/c they don't believe they deserve them anyway, or maybe they think we will leave first so they go ahead and withdraw. It's a push-pull, and very childish.
My therapist suggested perhaps there could be some "borderline personality" traits going on in my husband and told me to read up on them. They are very push-pull too.
No, don't let him be physically mad at you. It's ok for him to be angry or whatever but NOT ok to touch you in anger. It is time to draw that boundary RIGHT NOW.
Get him a punching bag maybe. I've already envisioned one hanging in our garage one day in case my husband ever needs one to vent on.
Again, I'm sorry for the volatile rollercoaster. You are going to be the only consistent one here. It is like "tough love" of a teenager. One of you has to be the strong, consistent one and it has to be you. I know it is hard. Give it some more time....remember, don't make any big decisions about leaving while in the midst of such high emotions or distress or depression.
And to me, yes, it's hard to know of such infidelity - but 5 or 500 times it's all the same really. YOu cannot get caught up in the number. It stinks but doesn't help anything.
YOu're still in the crisis stage. You will have severe ups and downs and then it should level out a little, but not for a while. I've been on and off in crisis stage since 5 months ago, and it is just now starting to level out a little. Progress is slow so it's easy to lose sight of it. I still think y'all have a great chance of surviving this together. Remember, emotionally he's like a little kid and WILL say things that will hurt you, but BEHIND THE ANGER IS ALWAYS SADNESS AND FEAR. He'll push you away to see how committed you are to him, to see if you are really willing to get through this w/ him. I cannot imagine that he'd really want to lose his family. Again, his thinking is distorted too. I think it will be a while before he'll have clarity of thought. Hang in there.
Brokenhearted
Registrant
Selene, also my therapist said I will get the brunt of my husband's negative emotions because I am closest to him. It's just the way it works. Lucky us!
Selene
After 5 years of acting out with the same guy I can fully understand this statement -
I do know of a survivor that has acted out like this with a gay man that loved him, but he felt nothing and displayed nothing, they never kissed or hugged etc. Fot the survivor it was purely sex / acting out. For the gay guy it was very confusing !
He's in deep shit here, with few legitimate excuses other than the csa. You want some answers, assurances and all that kind of thing, and right now he hasn't got them.
Back to "Attack is the best form of defense"
I'm not making making ANY excuses, but he's scared shitless right now. He's in a corner, and he wants to get out.
The chances are he's struggling with the crap inside his own head right now, your head is probably as much of a mystery as his own.
"Feeling fine" - is possibly more a feeling of "feeling relieved" that the secret's out and "something is happening". Even if it's confusing, painful and to 'normal' people "out of control"; to him that "something is happening" feeling can be better than before?
And "yes" he very possibly is trying to make you kick him out.
That's 'victim thinking'; he thinks he doesn't deserve you, or indeed anything good. But because his csa was a victims experience that's what he knows, it's what he learned as a boy.
So for the ultimate victim experience he could engineer the situation until you throw him out.
Encourage him to do it, listen to his thoughts and ideas. And even if they are crap, credit him with trying - then mutually discuss them.
Will he ever become a real adult again? What is he now?
I know that the childhood we lived through shaped our adult lives to such an extent that we often have some behavious that would be considered "unacceptable" to other "normal and decent" adults.
Having sex with other men in toilets is way up high on that list of unacceptable.
But what drove the man you fell in love with, me, and so many others into doing this? Answer that, then decide his "adult" status.
The "responsibility" he probably feels is most likely tearing him apart. It's a very small step from responsibility to guilt and shame.
The hard part for us is finding the emotional tools to convey our feelings.
I'm not trying to be negative here, quite the opposite.
You are in a horrible situation that is something entirely not of your making. The guy you love was abused as a boy and the effects are now coming to light so you want to fix it. And that's perfectly right and natural, it's something my wife did and I'll be eternally grateful for.
I also understand that you're having a good rant because you're feeling so frustrated, that's ok as well. In fact it's good that you come here to rant, and ask for support and advice ( and I know how committed you are )
Having a good rant raises so many questions, and usually good honest questions as well, so please don't think I'm being hard on you again.
I think you realise perfectly that you're in for a rought ride for a while, we're not easy people to live with. But the adult you first loved is still there somewhere. Go get him !
Dave
After 5 years of acting out with the same guy I can fully understand this statement -
Is he gay? That would depend a great deal upon the emotional involvement they have / had.
I do know of a survivor that has acted out like this with a gay man that loved him, but he felt nothing and displayed nothing, they never kissed or hugged etc. Fot the survivor it was purely sex / acting out. For the gay guy it was very confusing !
Attack is the best form of defence.
He's in deep shit here, with few legitimate excuses other than the csa. You want some answers, assurances and all that kind of thing, and right now he hasn't got them.
But he realises that this is one of the things you want to see, and something he knows how to do so he makes a special effort.
Maybe he still hasn't got his head around it all yet? It's still early days, he's angry with himself, and very confused.
Back to "Attack is the best form of defense"
Whoever started it, or did whatever. Fighting ain't gonna help either of you.
I'm not making making ANY excuses, but he's scared shitless right now. He's in a corner, and he wants to get out.
He might be feeling fine about, and if he is then good for him. ( NOT FOR BEING AN ARSEHOLE THOUGH ! )
The chances are he's struggling with the crap inside his own head right now, your head is probably as much of a mystery as his own.
"Feeling fine" - is possibly more a feeling of "feeling relieved" that the secret's out and "something is happening". Even if it's confusing, painful and to 'normal' people "out of control"; to him that "something is happening" feeling can be better than before?
Maybe he hasn't got as far as being able to arrive at rational decisions yet?
And "yes" he very possibly is trying to make you kick him out.
That's 'victim thinking'; he thinks he doesn't deserve you, or indeed anything good. But because his csa was a victims experience that's what he knows, it's what he learned as a boy.
So for the ultimate victim experience he could engineer the situation until you throw him out.
Give him a chance to process his OWN thoughts, don't feed him all the information, and don't try and do his work for him.
Encourage him to do it, listen to his thoughts and ideas. And even if they are crap, credit him with trying - then mutually discuss them.
Yeah, you will. But it's up to him to put his part back together again.
mmmmmmm, this is a statement I could easily fall out with!
Will he ever become a real adult again? What is he now?
I know that the childhood we lived through shaped our adult lives to such an extent that we often have some behavious that would be considered "unacceptable" to other "normal and decent" adults.
Having sex with other men in toilets is way up high on that list of unacceptable.
But what drove the man you fell in love with, me, and so many others into doing this? Answer that, then decide his "adult" status.
The "responsibility" he probably feels is most likely tearing him apart. It's a very small step from responsibility to guilt and shame.
The hard part for us is finding the emotional tools to convey our feelings.
I'm not trying to be negative here, quite the opposite.
You are in a horrible situation that is something entirely not of your making. The guy you love was abused as a boy and the effects are now coming to light so you want to fix it. And that's perfectly right and natural, it's something my wife did and I'll be eternally grateful for.
I also understand that you're having a good rant because you're feeling so frustrated, that's ok as well. In fact it's good that you come here to rant, and ask for support and advice ( and I know how committed you are )
Having a good rant raises so many questions, and usually good honest questions as well, so please don't think I'm being hard on you again.
I think you realise perfectly that you're in for a rought ride for a while, we're not easy people to live with. But the adult you first loved is still there somewhere. Go get him !
Dave
he hit you!go now! whats the hardest thing about your post seems to me that you feel guilty,thats b.s. he has no right to put you through his mindgames if he was a real man he would either get help or get out ,put the abuse aside for a minute,would you accept this crap from him if he wasnt a survivor?sorry if this sounds harsh but ,whats happening is so dangerous for you ,aside from possibly getting who know what disease from his friends ,if hes angry enough to hit ,its not a huge leap to angry enough to kill! i know this place is about support for survivors but when its your life i think somebody should say get the hell out of there . maybe that will force him to change ,if hes gonna fall apart without you ,thats not your fault . hes falling apart anyway , what hes doing to you is abuse plain and simple and its emotional blackmail to say he will fall apart without you. im a survivor,but right now i have no sympathy for him at all. please get yourself and your family safe k? adam
When any situation gets so out of control that fists or degrading words are used, it's time to really consider getting help or getting out. We as human beings, the decent ones, survivors or not, know right from wrong at a gut level. aLot of times i read posts here and i am inclined to respond but i don't. I think my words would be construde as harsh and too much reality for some. If someone is abusive to you no matter what the reason, get out, get him out, stop it. Wake up!! when i first read this post from selene a few days ago, i thought," maybe he is gay! But he is bisexual, period. If he is or isn't dosen't mean cheating is okay. This is something you didn't cause, your sorry that he was hurt, that you can't fix, and when things become abusive, you need to make it NOT YOUR PROBLEM anymore!! anyway, Happy thanksgiving, light and luv,Sis
It is VERY wrong that he punched you Selene. I fear that Adam, Hauser and Sis may be right about keeping away from him at the moment. Maybe when he's had a bit of therapy and is seeing clearer, then he'll be safe enough to be with.
It strikes me as quite frightening now, when I think of my own bf's violent behaviour a while back. He never hit me, but he kicked, threw, broke things in the house and once he towered above me, breathing heavily, with the angriest snarl on his face, and really looked like he might hurt me. I didn't crumble at the time, I didn't feel 'victim like', but when I look back on it now, I see I've actually been scared of him and that's a horrible feeling. When you feel on edge, and like worried about speaking your mind or expressing angry emotions for fear of some kind of violence, that's not a good situation to be in. I didn't see it then, but I realise it now, how close he may have been sometimes to taking out all the anger from his life on me. I'm lucky that I never got hurt.........be more than lucky Selene, perhaps you and your husband could just keep out of eachothers space as much as possible. Try to get as much time apart as possible? Try to take care of you a little bit. just really take good care of yourself Selene. Your husband needs to get himself some therapy right now.
peace
Beccy
It strikes me as quite frightening now, when I think of my own bf's violent behaviour a while back. He never hit me, but he kicked, threw, broke things in the house and once he towered above me, breathing heavily, with the angriest snarl on his face, and really looked like he might hurt me. I didn't crumble at the time, I didn't feel 'victim like', but when I look back on it now, I see I've actually been scared of him and that's a horrible feeling. When you feel on edge, and like worried about speaking your mind or expressing angry emotions for fear of some kind of violence, that's not a good situation to be in. I didn't see it then, but I realise it now, how close he may have been sometimes to taking out all the anger from his life on me. I'm lucky that I never got hurt.........be more than lucky Selene, perhaps you and your husband could just keep out of eachothers space as much as possible. Try to get as much time apart as possible? Try to take care of you a little bit. just really take good care of yourself Selene. Your husband needs to get himself some therapy right now.
peace
Beccy
honey girl
Registrant
Dear Selene,
I am also a female csa survivor, now a partner of a male csa survivor. But I am reflecting now on one of my experiences with my second husband (from whom I was divorced 5 years ago). He was and still is a very angry man, with a lot of passive-aggressive behaviors. At one point we got into a shoving match that sounds like the one you described. I slapped him, and he slapped me back. It was not only painful but humiliating to us both. His comment then was something like, never start a fight unless you're prepared to finish it.
I tell you this to attest to my familiarity with the dynamic. If arguments descend to physical violence, then you are in a dangerous spot: if not to your physical safety, then to your emotional health. This applies to both of you. And to your relationship. Fighting physically is a sign that you have reached the limits of your resources to handle things otherwise.
From what you have been posting, it seems that you have been dealing with hugely difficult subjects, with very little outside help. Now would be a good time to look for more help. It is not shameful for you to have trouble coping with this on your own, either of you. But please don't minimize the challenges you are facing, trying to tough it out. You are not alone with these issues; other people do have skill and empathy to give to you. We here can help but only in a limited way.
Good luck to you both.
Peace,
HG
I am also a female csa survivor, now a partner of a male csa survivor. But I am reflecting now on one of my experiences with my second husband (from whom I was divorced 5 years ago). He was and still is a very angry man, with a lot of passive-aggressive behaviors. At one point we got into a shoving match that sounds like the one you described. I slapped him, and he slapped me back. It was not only painful but humiliating to us both. His comment then was something like, never start a fight unless you're prepared to finish it.
I tell you this to attest to my familiarity with the dynamic. If arguments descend to physical violence, then you are in a dangerous spot: if not to your physical safety, then to your emotional health. This applies to both of you. And to your relationship. Fighting physically is a sign that you have reached the limits of your resources to handle things otherwise.
From what you have been posting, it seems that you have been dealing with hugely difficult subjects, with very little outside help. Now would be a good time to look for more help. It is not shameful for you to have trouble coping with this on your own, either of you. But please don't minimize the challenges you are facing, trying to tough it out. You are not alone with these issues; other people do have skill and empathy to give to you. We here can help but only in a limited way.
Good luck to you both.
Peace,
HG
Brokenhearted
Registrant
Selene, I second that. I couldn't handle it without having a counselor myself and she has helped me SO much see the problems in the correct light so I can deal. I go every 1-2 wks.
Being a survivor does not create a violent man who will harm a woman. That is just wrong. And yes, much of us do take the responsibilty of how it is we act, if is bad. Much of time I think we will not so often take it for when what we do is good. But no, to be a survivor, that do not mean you cause physical harm to a woman, I think no real man will do that.
VN
VN
reality2k4
Registrant
I echo VN, I am not violent because I met violence, I am totally the opposite, and would not hurt any living being.
I guess most of us here think the same, but it never goes on that abused boys abuse, there are so many other reasons to life,
No, to abuse,
ste
I guess most of us here think the same, but it never goes on that abused boys abuse, there are so many other reasons to life,
No, to abuse,
ste