being over protected

being over protected
A

andrew-almost52

Registrant
I want to pose a few questions and make a few comments here. And I do not wish or mean to be inflammatory or cause a problem. But I really feel the comments are legitimate and the questions need to be asked.
The majority of our forum discussion participants are legitimate survivors. Can it realisticly be expected that we are super together all the time?
Probably not.
Would it be reasonable to expect that some postings are going to be off the wall and offensive to some people? Probably yes. Is it also reasonable to assume that we are going to attract some chronic attention seekers, posers and fakirs? I think probably. Should we trust our membership and the large body of discussion forum participants to be able to weed through the crap and be able to discern what is worthwhile and relevent to them? I think so. I believe in the basic inate intelligence of people. I think they can figure things out for themselves. I also think that even in some of the screw ball postings or threads that we might sometimes get, there is something to be learned from them too.
I'm not sure that just because something posted is politically incorrect or impolite that it should be removed because it upsets the sensitivities of one or more persons. I believe that there will be a natural consequence to folks that post nonsense or inflammatory garbage....people will respond harshly or ignore them. If the garbage throwers persist and make a game of it, then the administrators should just cut them out from using the discussion board.
In my very humble opinion, I feel that our very hard working and well intentioned moderators are being a little over protective of us. I think we are more resilient. Only my opinion of course.
 
Coming from a website that I have where I have had to deal with, I will assure you it isn't easy for the moderators. Not only do they have to deal with their own issues, but try to stay objective in the whole thing. Some people will like what they do and some won't. That is not always an easy place to be in.

I've also witnessed where I let things flow as they should and never really stopped any posts or threads. And now as I look back, that was a mistake because people used the site to post attacks against other people that they would not normally say to their face. It began to tear the place a part and I had to basically stop things for a time. I can't say whether they are being too protective or not as that would be my judgement versus their judgement. I do find the people around here to be pretty objective for the most part.

Unfortunately as nice as it would be to let the human speices go with the flow, the human species tends to get vicious at times with one another. And to keep things from going to far out one way or the other (and as much as I don't like things being moderated personally) I find for my own site that I have to moderate it. Otherwise it would turn back into what it once was and that was not helping anyone. The only thing it was doing was allowing a select few to just throw dirt at each other.

Just my 1 cent worth from my experience.

Don
 
I totally agree Don. The moderator's job is a lonely one and a difficult one. Maybe the only more lonely job is that of being the parent of a minor hockey league goalie. (trying to be light hearted here). I guess that I'm concerned when I see responses in my private messaging inbox that are not being posted publicly because the people claim they are afraid of being censored or getting in trouble with the forum.
 
Andrew
thanks for starting this topic, and I sincerely hope it runs and generates some good responses.

My idea of moderating is letting as much as possible go, but stepping in when things get personal between members.

I have edited / lifted very few posts, and I belive they were all likely to upset one or more people and that's all I personally plan to avoid.

I agree with Andrew that we should behave like adults and give and take a bit of flack, but as Don says - that's not always possible.

People on sites like these are at different stages of recovery, we're suffering from many varied problems, and we're just plain different toeach other.
So without the benefit of body language, or really knowing each other it's easy to read someones post and get the wrong end of the stick. Before we know it flame wars are declared.

I would hate to think that what we do as moderators is keeping people from posting their views and opinions, it really does go against all my principles.
And if anyone does feel that way please feel free to let me know. I wont be offended I promise.
I will try my utmost to be the moderator YOU want.

But I will stick to the principle of not letting personal attacks take place.
We come here for support, and if we disagree with someone do it - disagree. But don't personally attack them, just the ideas.

I've quoted this before, but I like it, and try my utmost to follow this.

" I dissaprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Voltaire.

Dave
 
I appreciate this thread...thanks for getting it going.

Lloydy has such a good point. We defeat our purpose if members are fearful of honestly stating their needs, fears, ideas, questions etc.

At the same time, many of us have been brutally abused in several ways, perhaps over a period of years. So, we do not feel safe here, if we fear being verbally assaulted again--it is just too familiar for us.

In pain and fear, we may write something from time to time that is triggering, or that expresses our rage at something, an event, an opinion, an attitude etc. I think such a post would never need to be edited or lifted.

But, if a member, either out of his own pain, or possibly because he is using alcohol or drugs, or maybe just because he wants to strike out at someone and does--then, I believe we need to offer our support and help for both the person attacked and the person doing the attacking.

I really doubt that anyone has such thick skin that they can put up with any hateful thing a person wants to say to them. But, when we see the attack as the survivor in a survivor mode and perhaps clearing the ground around him, we need to help him through a awful time in his life.

I have seen our friend Lloydy run defense for the out of control anger a number of times. He does a great job of it. When he lifts something he does it with total respect for all parties concerned.

Seems like we all say the same thing--freedom to reach out for help here, but if a member in anguish strikes out at another member, we try to keep it from being abusive without being into censorship. It seems to be working good just now.

Peace to you all.

Bob
 
I love the Voltaire quote Dave. And in case I wasn't clear, I hugely appreciate the job that all the moderators are doing. I just have an innate optimism about human nature, more like Rousseau than Voltaire, and therefore like to think that most of us folks can handle the off-side postings and take them in stride.
 
For all you optimists out there, please note that the thread about homophobia started by brian-z has been censored/closed/locked on its first day after only four responses. Apparently somebody here feels very threatened and will not tolerate any discussion of the matter. Yeah, this place is great. Thanks for another important lesson in homophobia. Can't say that I feel very safe expressing myself freely and without fear. How about the rest of you?
 
I'm afraid I have to agree with Roy on this one. I think IMHO that Ken was just a little over zealous with locking down BrianZ's posting and the subsequent threads. But then quite possibly, Ken, or the moderators in general, may have information and/or an understanding of the personalities that we are not privy too. And therefore we may not always understand some of their decisions. Hopefully the lock downs are explained by way of private messaging to the originator the post.
 
Nobody ever said that sexual harrassment in the workplace is acceptable or should be tolerated. Where do these ideas come from? This is a place I came to for support and care for some very old wounds, which I received and for which I am grateful. I have learned, however, that it is best to keep your mouth shut about certain things and that there is an actively promoted double standard. I feel rejected, betrayed, disappointed, and very hurt by the place I came to for healing. In the very beginning of my participation at nomsv I put out tentative feelers about how safe it was for gay people here and was offered reassurance that it was. Well it sure doesn't feel safe anymore. Apparently it was a very thin veneer of tolerance to begin with.
 
Hi Roy,

It is a shame that you are feeling unsafe to talk about anything here on our forum.

The Gay Forum would be something of a help. But, since gay men do not read only that forum they may well experience prejudice elsewhere.

Roy, as I see it, we have survivors who come here who are so fragile because of their abuse by a man and the degradation that they feel about it that any talk of sex among men is perceived by them to be violent, and their minds play wicked tricks on them.

We have made some progress in accepting homosexuality as a loving and life-giving way for gay men to share their love and affection for each others. But we have a ways to go.

I too am offended when anyone talks about gay men as though they are all waiting in the bushes ready to pounce on unsuspecting straight men. It is such a ridiculous thought. But for the men who were really brutalized and even tortured by male on male sexuality, the only thought they get is one of danger.

I believe that gay men can help expand our understand and calm fears if they gently point out how hurtful certain words and attitudes are, and if they can somehow help us to see that sex among men who are gay can be and often is very loving, stable, mutually desired and a wonderfully human experience.

Roy, friend, you reacted very strongly to words that were just an expression of the distorted idea many have of gays. I fully understand that reaction. I have become much more vocal in speaking about gay bashing as an evil and against the very false concenpt that gay sex is merely sex and not an expression of true love.

You are a very bright man. You, as we all are, are at a time of the year that is full of stress and perhaps brings up awfully ghastly memories. So I ask you to take more time and think through how what you might want to post will educate and enllighten--even though I understand that you could feel that in our modern day we should have gotten it a lot better than we have.

Let us see more of the loving, witty man from you.
We are so depressed, or I should say, a lot of us are, that your magnificent wit would be a wonderful gift to us all. You do not need to put up with being assaulted over your God-given sexual orientation any more than any of us do. But when we walk yet, in great darkness, light is so much better than heat.

I love you brother! Be well. Be at peace.

Bob
 
Having just stopped posting to a site on disabilities, where the moderators saw their role as sitting back and watching the free for all, I certainly welcome the job that the moderators here do.

On the previous stated site, there was a small group of posters, each having thousands of posts to their names. If anyone disagreed with them they were verbally torn to shreads.

I think we all have to be aware that as stated by other contributors we are all at different levels of our recovery, (Christ, I'm usually at different levels of my recovery through - out the day).

I do feel safe on this site, I feel that I am understood and thank everyone for their support. If some members would rather talk through private messages is that a problem? If they feel they have to talk through private messages, I suppose it may be.

Mark S
 
Crickey.

I have just been over to the Gay Survivors section of this site. There was only one thread. I wish we all as survivors could partake in one open forum. NO ONE should direct abuse at any section of society. Whether you are Gay or straight, able bodied or disabled. We are all humans and on this site were all Survivors.

The problem, as I see it is one persons freedom to state their beliefs, can/could be seen as an attack on another person.

I don't know if the division of Gay Survivors over Male Survivors (as used by this site) is the answer, all I can say is I'm bloody glad I wont have to make the decision as to the best way of keeping everyone safe. I'm also glad I'm not a moderator.

Mark S
 
Bob, you have as much love and wisdom in your little finger as I have in my entirety. I am honored to have the pleasure of knowing you. Thank you for your kind words.

About 15 years ago as I was finishing college I was very active in the gay and lesbian organization on campus. I made some very good friends among those fine people during that time. One of my friends was a younger guy named Tom. I remember that his major was anthropology, he was very funny, he was very good looking, and he was the only child of older parents. There was a real sweet quality about Tom. He was also very flirtatious. One night at a gay bar in Newport Beach he went out to the parking lot to his car to get some more money. He never made it back inside because somebody was offended by his approach. Some guy and his friend beat him up and bashed his head on a car bumper. Tom now lives in a board and care facility, unable to meet his basic needs.

I cannot begin to explain how devastating this incident was for all of us who knew him. I remember running into his mom one day at the hospital. I will never forget that day as long as I live. What, exactly, is the right thing to say in a situation like that? It makes me tearful just thinking about it, 15 years later.

So when I hear people use threatening and shaming undertones in their discussion of being hit on or propositioned by a gay man it is difficult not to take it personally. I think about Tom, how he used to be, and what his life is like now, what's left of it. I understand that most guys here have been sexually traumatized by men. I also know that trauma comes in many forms and that you are not the only ones who have been hurt.
 
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