Before or After? Cause or Because?

Before or After? Cause or Because?
R

Ron_dup1

Registrant
Hey guys I have a question. I don't know what I am to label myself... depends on the day and who walks by whether I feel Heterosexual, Homosexual, Bisexual, or simply asexual. I do tend to feel that I am gay, but I have never had a relationship or had sex since my abuse ended at age 13. I wonder if I was gay at birth and maybe my abuser saw that in me even at age 9 and that is why he chose me? Or are my gay feelings a result of the abuse by another male as my first and only sexual experience?
Do any of you all feel like this or have similar questions? Do any of you have any advice that might help me sort this all out?
Thanks,
Ron
 
I have the same conflict Ron, and have asked myself the same questions. Always looking back into the past, wondering if that is the cause of what feel like strong compulsions.
A couple of times, I have been so sure of being one or the other, then another crumb of truth gets dropped on my head and I'm back to square one. One day I will know.

Do you think you're trying to decide this so you can blame or vindicate yourself though? I know that is wrapped up in the process with me. The acting out continues for me and I guess I'll know the answer when it stops.
Until then, I know that what happened to me, regardless of whatever my sexuality is, was wrong. They had no right to do that to me.
 
hello guys. Yes, what was done to us is AND always be wrong. We ALL have time I had troouble accepting that fact. For me it took some fifty (50) years to accept. However, about eleven (11) years ago I came up with the phrase - "I am what I am, please understand me." If people I meet along the way don't accept that fact, then TOUGH SHIT FOR THEM. I consider myself BETTER THAN THEM. I realize that that fact is a continuing act, but what I do not understand is why the hell does it continue to get worse? Thanks for listening. Bos
 
I've been married 28 years, never had the urge to chase other women ( even if I have been chased occasionally :o ) and like most guys I love to watch a pretty girl go by, just because I'm on a diet- I can still look at the menu !
I have never looked at another man in the same way though, never thought of any other guy in a sexual way, so I guess I'm "straight"
So why do I still fantasize about sex acts with other men ? I've tried them all as a kid and at the height of my acting out tried them again. I don't like them. But the fantasy STILL remains, and seems to be the only one that works.
I'm confused, but among survivors this kind of confusion seems all too common.
My belief is that being gay or straight has much more to do with the feeling of going weak at the knees at the sight of someone, feelings of attraction and love, rather than feelings of lust.
 
I'm pretty sure the acting out I experience is directly connected to what happened so many years ago. It seems to center specifically on the kinds of acts performed.

It gets a little wrenching though, because that feeling of compulsion is very strong, pervasive and convincing while its around. It always drops me in a bucket of shame when its done with me though.
When I see a pretty woman (or a woman with a nice ass) something stirs in me. But when I see guys on the street, nothing does. It only seems to come out of that feeling which feels like a compulsion. Almost like its looking for something.
 
Spider-Man, I thought Iwas the ONLY guy in the universe who thought that way for over 30 years. And as much as I hate the thought of others having experienced what I did, It's so good not to be alone.
And with a whole lot of work it's getting better for me, but it's slow and I hate being on my own, that's when the crazies climb the walls .
Lloydy
 
Hits the nail on the head....After being abused I didn't have sex with anyone for 15 years...didn't even consider being gay...didn't like men...so I got married. Now I fantasize having sex with men all the time but in person...I hate them....Why..am I just afraid of myself????? Sex can be wonderfull at times and drive you nuts too? Last night I acted it out again with my wife fisting me...kinda sore but happy????? I feel that if you are a male SA survivor...you should have a hard core acting it out way..on the side to go to when needed. Like Tinfoil said about have a huge ass if you were raped lots while a child...well, it's true! Hey, but what's with this fantasizing gay sex and not being able to cum with out it????????

Eddie

[ May 17, 2002: Message edited by: getteddie ]
 
well for me I can't act out with my wife, two reasons- 1 she hasn't got a dick, so I can't do blow jobs and 2, the most important thing, so far I've kept all my acting out seperate from her, she knows all about what I've done in the past and what my fantasies are.
Also I don't think I could handle the guilt trip. When I was acting out it drove me to the edge of suicide,( we aint got your kind of firepower over here Tinfoil, it's the vacuum hose on the tailpipe- no class at all eh ? ) It's a major fuck up acting out, and I was extremely lucky that I kept my two lives so seperate, and the "normal" life more or less stayed that way. And with my wifes incredible understanding that's more or less how it stayed, life aint the same that's for sure, but it's better.
My old split life is going, the acting out part is slowly fading and I mustn't let it bleed into what's left. And it's the same with the fantasy, I hate it because I know where it came from, I know it's a false fantasy because I've been there, done that, and I don't like it. I actually had a fantasy come true a few years ago and it was so dissapointing, and the guilt so much worse. The problem is that it's so insidious and just sits there waiting to torment me. When we have sex it creeps in and ruins it, so do I accept the fantasy ? It's an option, but the fantasy is what led me into acting out many years ago and the thought of that happening again scares the shit out of me.
I'm rapidly heading for asexuality, and that's not what I want.
Fuck me- I'm all confused now !!!! :confused:
 
Ron and all of you guys too,

The acting out result of the abuse that happened to me is like I'm trying to replicate the abuse but in a situation where I feel like I'm in control and not being forced into doing something. It's insidious really because the exact opposite is the truth, it's still compulsive. I didn't tell anyone about the abuse for 38 years, not even my wife. I used to get into really dark moods, spiral down and act out, which just made me feel worse afterwards. I always regretted it and always told myself that I'd never do it again. I felt that I was two separate entities and one didn't affect the other.

I've learned a lot about myself in the 4 years since I started dealing with it. My wife knows about the abuse, she even knows about how I acted out in the past and she knows that I'm struggling with it now. It almost destroyed our now 32 years together but we survived it and have gotten to understand each other better. I haven't been perfect, I've slipped a few times since I told her but I've always played very safe 'cause that's what I'm most afraid of. It's becoming less of an influence on my day to day life and I know it will always be there to some extent. And I'll always have the lingering question, 'what would my life be like if it didn't happen?' The question of my sexuality, in my mind, is not black and white but all sorts of subtle shades of grey. The confusion just won't go away but it is getting less intrusive.

I feel a whole lot better about myself now than I did a year ago or 4 years ago. I have hope and I sincerely believe that there is hope for all of us. I'm glad that I found this place.

Take good care of yourselves,

Steve
 
It is good to know you're not alone. I remember when I first came here, lurking in the background and reading posts, it was salve to know that I wasn't the only one going through this. That bit of knowledge goes a long way.
I had these compulsions before I remembered and couldn't figure out where the hell they were coming from. Then I remembered and I looked at it and went 'oh'.

Originally posted by Lloydy:
Spider-Man, I thought Iwas the ONLY guy in the universe who thought that way for over 30 years. And as much as I hate the thought of others having experienced what I did, It's so good not to be alone.
And with a whole lot of work it's getting better for me, but it's slow and I hate being on my own, that's when the crazies climb the walls .
Lloydy
Click to expand...
 
I must be the only Male SA survivor in the world who acts it out with Fisting???? Started out with another man...me wanting to act it out in a way where I really got hurt..but I liked it? When my wife found out... she said that she would do it for me and has been for almost 2 years! Used to do it up to 6 times a week..now down to once a week...sometimes more. I thought that it would kill me but it turned into pressure release valve...a way to stay alive!!!

Eddie

[ May 17, 2002: Message edited by: getteddie ]
 
Eddie
And you other guys, just how lucky are we that our wives accept our pasts, and help us through it in whatever way they can ?
Although I guess there's many marriages and relationships gone down the tubes when our acting out is revealed, and is that such a bad thing ? if my wife wouldn't support me I would have walked away for sure, if she couldn't do it then maybe it would be different. Without the support the chances are the survivor would just be getting more crap and guilt, and we got enough of that shit to last us a lifetime.
My wife understands it's a compulsion that takes me over, however distressing she found it. But if I was chasing other women, she'd kill me- slowly and painfully !!!
And Steve is so right in saying it's as though some of us want to re-create our pasts, but on our terms this time. For me it didn't work, it was just like the abuse but now I was inflicting it on myself.
Lloydy
 
My boss would tell me about the next days work, somewhere many miles away.A job on my own at a remote site that I could finish in minutes.
And almost instantly I would start on the new improved fantasy. It was going to be the ultimate one, a slow methodical build up that would last all day and in the afternoon I would ride home via all the stinking public toilets hoping to get lucky.
As soon as I awoke next day it would start,I would sit eating breakfast oposite my wife and imagine the days events unfolding before me.
The day would progress and the new fantasy would take shape, although the reality is, just how many ways are there to meet strangers in toilets and suck them off ?
But I didn't let that stop me then, oh no. The fantasy would gather detail, jeans or trousers to unzip ? stay in the toilet or drive somewhere quiet ? But these were small details really, the main event was the sex, always the same- but the anticipation was always exciting and somehow different.
As the day went on my excitement rose until I threw my tools in the back of the van and took off with the tyres spinning. I drove in a blur with my heart racing, all thought was of what was going to happen shortly at the toilet. I could taste adreniline and my body shook as I stumbled into the toilet, I would have fought my way in !
Empty, fucking empty !! Drive on to the next. Same again. DRIVE- FUCK - EMPTY.
Have a wank. AAAHHHHH....
Has anyone actually experienced the ultimate wank ? Didn't think so.
Guilt, shame and depression, that was my experience, not the ultimate sexual experience.
And when I did get "lucky", strangely, I felt no better- probably, no certainly, worse. Did I learn ? Don't ask......
Well yes, I suppose I have learnt in the end but it was fucking hard work. I haven't acted out for about 12 months, although the fantasy sometimes gets a toe in the door. Perhaps it always will ?
The inevitability of the process is frightening, once I started I had to finish, and what scares me still is the knowledge that I know the level of excitement I can create just by using my imagination, the adreniline rush was tremendous- better than most drugs and drink I've tried, and so easy to create. I can't get that sort of rush by driving a custom built 4x4 in extreme competition !
Isn't the mind a wonderfull thing, as long as it aint fucked with!!! ;)
 
Lloydy,

I have felt the same way. I planned every step of the way, exactly where I would stop along the way, how long I would stay there, how late I could come home or arrive and not have to explain myself. I still catch myself starting to do it whenever I have to travel. I bought a fast motorcycle almost 2 years ago that's unique and very nice looking. The really strange thing is when I'm riding it I refuse to leave it out in front of any of those places that I used to visit. I seem to care more about that 'bike than I did about myself. It keeps me sane in an insane way. The first therapist that I really connected with before I moved to CA gave me a little exercise to do whenever I got in one of the compulsive moods. He asked me to just pull over to the side of the road, think seriously about what I was planning, and count to 50. Nine times out of ten my anxiety level would be reduced enough that I wouldn't continue on that path. I haven't let anyone suck me for over a year now. And, no, I never had the most fantastic blow job imaginable. I always felt horrible afterwards and just wanted to get somewhere so that I could take a shower.

I still have the fantasies. I still have the desires/urges. They have diminished over time but they are still there. I have to keep my guard up at all times and it just wears me out sometimes. When I'm riding the 'bike fast on a nice bit of twisty two lane back road I don't have time to think about anything else, I have to concentrate on what I'm doing right then. It's actually gotten so that I don't have to drive so damn fast anymore. A couple of crashes, a couple of broken body parts, and lots of new parts & plastic bodywork for the 'bike taught me something I guess.

Just knowing that others are dealing with the same issues gives me hope. Like many other survivors, I had believed that I was the only person in the whole world that behaved that way and had those thoughts. That belief just gave me more justification for my feelings of worthlessness. I feel a lot better about myself now than I have in the past and know that I deserve the things I've worked hard for. It wasn't just good fortune, I was driven to do the best damn job possible hoping that it would make up for all of my self professed "hidden defects". I'm planning a two week motorcycle trip this August and I haven't thought much at all about stopping anywhere for sex. That's a big step for me.

Take good care of yourself, you deserve the best that life has to give, we all do.

Steve
 
Steve
It's such a good site this, where else can you interact with other guys who have the same problems and talk so openly, my guess is that you'd be very lucky to get this frank a discussion in many group sessions.
Which eases the load and the guilt trips so much. No matter how often my excellent therapist reassured me my experience wasn't that uncommon, or how often I read about it in books, I never really grasped that there are so many others like me. To talk to you all, and discover I'm not alone is so reassuring.
My "cure" was remarkably simple and the sole inspiration of my wife. She bought me a mobile phone. And some of the first calls were just me gibbering and crying into it, parked by the side of the road. The strength that came back was all I needed. Now I call her just for a chat, and the demons climb back into their hell hole.
She also calls me to tell me to call at the shops, empty the dishwasher, mow the lawn etc when I get home from work, but I can't have everything can I ????
Lloydy ;)
 
Originally posted by Ron:
... depends on the day and who walks by whether I feel Heterosexual, Homosexual, Bisexual, or simply asexual. Ron[/QB]
Click to expand...

Hi Ron,
I have read and re-read this thread more times than I can count. I know how you feel. I acted out on my abuse with other men, anyone I could find. Even after I got married. I dont anymore, but at times I still look and say "Humm he's got a nice ass", or something like that. I dont have any advice for you, just wanted to let you know your not alone in this.
 
Lloydy,

I do that now too. I call home just before I leave from work to say hello to my wife. Hearing her voice (even if she's had a particularly bad day) grounds me and let's me know that there's somebody out there who loves me, warts and all. It keeps me from wandering. Speaking of which, I've got to get home now, the 'bike's all back together now and faster than ever. I think I'll keep it that way.

Take care,

Steve
 
James
thank you, I have read this discussion over and over again as well. It really didn't go where I thought it would but it has been great! I guess I just don't know if I'm gay or not. I mean women and men turn my head, but it seems that sexually I find men more attractive. I just wonder if that is because that is where I have the most experience, due to the abuse. Or if it is because I understand and know what feels good to a man. Or is it just because the abuse has skewed my perception of what sex is and who it should happen with. Or was and am I gay and have been all along????
confused and searching :confused: :confused:
Ron
 
Ron:
I've been there, done that. Its very bruising, that particular confusion. I had that for quite a while - a burning need to know what my sexuality was/is. I still don't know. But. I have figured out why I had such a burning need to know - specifically what it would say about me and what happened to me if I were gay or bi or hetero. I've since turned to looking at it in terms of 'what happened to me was wrong and they had no right'. Everything else will follow in time. I do know I like women. As for whether I'm partly, slightly, or not at all bi, I don't know. And while the acting out is around, I'm not going to know. It muddies the water too much because I can't tell if its coming from what happened or if its a seed that was waiting in me before.
 
Ron,
I wish I could give you an answer to your questions, there are the same ones I fought with. I know now that I was tought to like sex with men. Doesnt mean I dont still look, becouse I do, Doesnt mean I dont still think about it becouse I do, I just dont act on it. I sure wish I had an answer for you that would make all of this easer for you, but keep talking and you will find your answer your self.
James
 
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