BDSM "Triggers"

BDSM "Triggers"
S

Sean Simms

Registrant
TRIGGER WARNING. Graphic talk of sexual acts.
Lloydy
***********

Hello,

I have participated in a few BDSM (Bondage, Dominence and Sado-Masochism)parties and wanted the opinions of those who have some experience with the subject.

Most recently I have moved away from such behaviors because I was at a party and saw the following: One person (the bottom)getting hit as hard as posible for an hour and ending up beaten up. She told me she enjoyed this and it was very cathartic for her. I had to leave the room because I couldn't watch it all.

The person hitting (the top)participated because he wanted to see how much punishment he could give. (He's normally a soft guy and bottoms who want to be hit hard complain he stops when they cry)

My problem is that I have enjoyed being around these people because they are rather open and accepting of everyone but it's gotten to the point that I don't want to be around people who are acting "crazy". Ther parties are alcohol free and I feel safe with most of the people. I have good talks with them about these issues but...they seem rather defensive when I interject that they are working out past abuse issues through BDSM.

I've used my time there to work on my issues but feel disapoointed that they feel threatened about such in depth discussion and honesty.

Sean Simms
 
Sean,

Sorry I can't help you with this.

But could I make a suggestion? Perhaps something like this at least needs the warning "Triggers".

Just a thought.

Peace,

Marc
 
Sean:
I've used my time there to work on my issues but feel disapoointed that they feel threatened about such in depth discussion and honesty.
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While one might enjoy the ambience of the local bar, talking about great literature there would be lost on the local drunks. If you want good conversation or deal with recovery issues, it makes sense to me to find an appropriate audience rather than an interesting atmosphere that would support that.
Ken
 
Sean I know all about the S&M and BDSM scene. I was a male prostitute from 18-21 catering to the more violent part of so called straight male society. I have been beaten raped, hung, dragged through the mud and everything else you can imagine. Was I acting out. Yes definitely. I was beaten all the time as a small boy and violently raped repeatedly at Military College at age 16-17. I used the excuse that I was getting paid for it so it was ok. Looking back I was looking for someone to kill me because I did not have the guts to do it to myself. While these people, to a large extent talk about it as being more role playing than anything else people do get hurt and sometimes killed. As well for the person taking the abuse it reaffirms that they are worthless pieces of shit. This does a hell of a lot of damage to their sense of self worth.

For years afterwards I acted out with violent men. One day I woke up and realized that my behaviour would lead me to a very early grave. Personally I dont think they want honesty or a lot of conversation for that matter. Just to vent their frustrations and emotions in a safe place for themeselves. And I suppose it makes the doer feel somewhat superior and a take charge kind of person.

I may be totally screwed up but this is my take. And I have a lot of experience with this sort of stuff.
 
Sean, I was in and out of the S&M scene from the time I was 18 til I was 35. It's a trap and I just wound up re-enacting my abuse. As a sub dommes and switches led me to others and more. eventually I was hooking for women old enough to be my mom and I don't think it was about caring love sex or anything other than they felt young with a younger man. I didn't have th abillity to say no. I think the women involved had been hurt and they wanted to hurt back or something. It sometimes seems erotic in the moment but ultimately it is empty and can have a cost not worth paying. in 1995 I got a client pregnant but she was too old and had a heart attack and a miscarriage. Not all people in S&M wind up hooking but there are a lot of things when you are in the life that can go very wrong and when you have been in it for a long time it can suck you back in as bad as alcohol or anything else. If you can leave please get out and I'm sorry if I'm seeing my problems in you but I don't want anyone else to hurt the way I hurt when I think of the child I never got to see. Maybe I am babbeling but please think this through Sean.
 
I am sorry my friend I do not know anything really about BDSM but I do know that from what I read it is not a good environment to be in. There have been times throughout my life that I had also done simular things to what was explained above. I used to go out and sell my self for money and I would make friends with people who would abuse me physically and mentally. I found out later on that some of the reasons why I chose to do that was because I did not know anyother way. I was trying to find myself and the only places I felt comfortable was in abusive situations because I did not know anything different. I also felt as if I did not deserve anything different. I felt I was a worthless piece of shit that did not deserve to live and was compleatly alone and unwanted. I then went to Job Corps and found that I could make a difference and was needed. I started to turn my life around and put myself in therapy to deal with the sexual abuse I endured when I was six to nine. It seems to me that you might be doing the same thing I was, I am not trying to say that you are but if this is the case my suggestion is to replace that activity with something else that you are interested in. I love psychology and hope to go to school soon to learn as much as I can to help people like me so they do not have to suffer as much as I have. This desire helped me get out of the depression and bad acts that I was involved in. When I went to Job Corps I found that I was intelligent and because of the things I went through I could help others so instead of selling my self and allowing others to beat me up I studied as much as I could and devoted my time in helping others. I also love to write poetry, and that has helped me the most being able to have a place to put my anger, pain and corruption is very healing. I hope some of this helps my friend and I wish you the best of luck. If you ever need to talk please pm me anytime, your friend malidin.
 
While I personally do not have any direct knowledge of BDSM I have watched films on the subject and I can understand you being involved.

My gut reaction though, is that it is a far from safe environment to be in, no matter how safe you feel, there is always the issue of meeting with someone who will kill you.

BEWARE

ste
 
My thought on the subject is you're playing with fire. For those of us who have associations between abuse and sex, BDSM can be very appealing. Fear, pain, and brutality -- all components of our earliest sexual experiences -- are presented. Wow, what a rush. And we're in a group that suggests these are normal desires. Sadly, it's just an illusion. In my experience, you can't "normalize" the after effects of abuse. It's a losing game to try -- and I suppose most of us have tried one way or another.

When you try to frame these activities as "working out abuse issues" I'm not surprised you get push back. You're throwing sand into the gears that make the whole game work. BDSM practitioners like to see themselves as dangerously going into territory that straight people don't dare attempt. They say they're taking sex to a more intense level. To see it as just the sad after affects of victimization means they aren't really bold adventurers at all, they're engaging in a sad Pavlovian response that the more fortunate people in our society never have to face. And that just shatters the fantasy.

Hope you can find an accepting place to work out this stuff. Take care of yourself.
 
Sean
I've never even used fantasies of bondage and s&m, so my view might not mean a lot.
But I think that there are many common issues with acting out sexually such as I did.

My fantasy was to be submissive, but in exactly the right manner. The fantasy might change slightly over time, but the way I was the submissive partner in the sex act ( bj's ) was critical.
Of course the reality of acting out and engaging with strangers for sex, who are also feeding their fantasies, means my fantasy couldn't be fulfilled properly. And many times I left the scene even before sex had begun because the story wasn't being followed. If I stayed it was hard work to maintain any kind of sex at all.
So my acting out was actually very unsuccessful sexually, but I tried :rolleyes:

My point is, do you think getting into a "scene" is maybe the next step, or an alternative step, where the fantasy can actually be controlled beforehand to a degree?
I think that back when I was acting out I would have been willing to accept the fact that someone else was acting my fantasy for me if that kind of arrangement could have been made. I now know it could very easily ,The cottaging scene has a web site now, modern times eh?

Maybe some people do join in with various scenes as a lifestyle choice that isn't driven by trauma or past experience, and good luck to them. But my suspicion is that it's a minority, and that most are acting out in one way or another.

Dave
 
Originally posted by Dan88:
When you try to frame these activities as "working out abuse issues" I'm not surprised you get push back. You're throwing sand into the gears that make the whole game work. BDSM practitioners like to see themselves as dangerously going into territory that straight people don't dare attempt. They say they're taking sex to a more intense level. To see it as just the sad after affects of victimization means they aren't really bold adventurers at all, they're engaging in a sad Pavlovian response that the more fortunate people in our society never have to face. And that just shatters the fantasy.
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Wow Dan. Very impressive summary.

Hi Sean... I've recently begun to act out the S/M fantasies that I've had for my entire life. I know completely that I am using them to re-enact my abuse. Despite my best efforts, it is difficult to resist the rush and the re-affirmation that I deserve to be abused and humiliated.

The tough thing about something like this is... well, everyone has a different take on it. I tend to see everything that we do (eat, sleep, sex, party, love) as a subconscious choice based on our early childhood development. I often feel I am in the minority in that belief. Regardless, it starts to become tricky when people either a) don't want to believe it is a choice in any way or b) believe that the choice is healthy, normal, etc.

And the hardest part is even if you know it is a result of the abuse, and you know it isn't healthy, but there is a driving compulsion to continue the behavior.

PM me if you want to talk further about this issue. I'd be happy to discuss it.
 
Sean,

After thinking about this subject for a few days, I want to give my opinion on it.

I suggested triggers be added because of what happened when I read your post.

You may not believe this, that someone my age would not know what BDSM meant. If it had said B&D or S/M, I would have understood and I would never have read it as this would be a trigger for me.

But what's done is done so I can only add my two cents. Two of my abusers used pain inflicted on me for their own sexual gratification. I'm talking about physical, not direct sexual, abuse.

My one question would be this: Why would any of us who have been hurt so badly volunteer to participate in this kind of activity. That is not a judgment statement, it is merely a question.

But I have to go with my gut which says get away from it. Far away.

Peace,

Marc
 
Marc
My one question would be this: Why would any of us who have been hurt so badly volunteer to participate in this kind of activity. That is not a judgment statement, it is merely a question.
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My take on this is based on my acting out with strange men, which I think has some parrallels.

Both of these things give a victim the opportunity to feel victimised once again, because we feel it's our natural place in the order of life. Somewhere between cockroaches and basic pond life!
It also allows us to plan our victimisation, and that was a big part of my acting out. And Sean describes this perfectly -

Despite my best efforts, it is difficult to resist the rush and the re-affirmation that I deserve to be abused and humiliated.
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I have said many times that the rush I could create over days when planning my acting out was better than cocaine and most recreational drugs I've ever experienced. I could create, and maintain for anything up to 4 or 5 hours, the kind of rush that made me incapable of rational thought.
And I wasn't guaranteed a result as I trawled public toilets, I imagine that going to a 'party' adds an air of certainty and anticipation that can only add to the rush? I had to time the peak of my rush to coincide with a 'possible' encounter.

I watched a three part documentary on late night TV a few weeks ago ( US made ) that followed about 4 or 5 couples that went swinging, wife swapping.
They all claimed it was of their own free will and choice, and that they had thought it through and decided that swinging was the thing for them.

But right from the start the thing that struck me was the desperation in what they said.
Everything they said seemed like a justification of their choice, not a series of satisfied explanations and comments.
Everything they said had a sadness about it, especially when they were on their own and talking freely without their partners; and that applied to male and females.
Eventually the bitching and arguing began, then violence between some partners, and the inevitable break ups.
The whole series of three, one hour, documentaries showed an lifestyle of extreme sadness, and no amount of bullshit covered up the cracks.

I have no doubt that there are people in the S & M world, the swinging scene, and many other similar things that do it because they enjoy it.
But I don't think that victims / survivors of abuse are well enough equipped to go into these worlds without taking our baggage along with us, and our baggage will always weigh us down.

That's my opinion anyway...

Dave
 
Dave,

I understand completely what you are talking about.

The draw to act out for me is that I am not worth anything else. Sure, the sex may be there, but it is an act. It leaves me feeling emptier than ever. But I didn't learn the lesson that I did deserve better.

Thankfully (in a sense), my condition makes it impossible to act out. But I had to face it this morning. I was waiting to treat myself to a style cut and a scalp and facial massage. Drinking coffee outdoors. A hustler kept trying to pick me up.

I realized I could do that someday to "explore" my issues instead of just sex. But today, even though it was not even possible to do that, I looked at what I was so tempted to do. And I had to ask myself, "Am I willing to settle for this?". The answer is no.

So, Sean, while you may think you are addressing your issues, my heart tells me that re-experiencing the abuse is the same kind of response.

My opinion. Nothing more.

Marc
 
To bad people think I am not facing my issues as in fact I feel happy that I was able to participate in the scenes that I did.

I have drew the line at the scene above that I first mentioned and found resistance with others players who didn't want to see what was really going on. But I perfer to take what I like and leave the rest.

I don't really feel as interested in BDSM as before. I do ,though, think it's okay to explore such topics as a way of working on abuse issues. It helped me even if it didn't help others here at Male Survivor. I never felt that anyone there was threatening in anyway just mixed up about what was really going on.

Sean
 
Sean,

Please remember these are only our opinions. They are not attacks.

People can only speak from thier own experiences or thought processes. And you got a lot of us thinking. That is not a bad thing, my brother!

As you so well stated, take what you can and leave the rest.

Peace,

Marc
 
Sean
it seems as though you went into this scene with your eyes wide open, and if you did and you gained something from it - even if it was 'just' pleasure, then that's ok.

My point is that many of us fall into alternatives without thinking them through, and then we have to pick up the pieces.

Dave
 
thanks guys :)

Sean
 
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