At that point with Mom

[focusedbody]

Having been through a lot of roundabout discussion with my mother, I'm at the point where it feels like the true unconscious material might be engaged.

What comes to mind at this moment is a quote from William James:

Common-sense says, we lose our fortune, are sorry and weep; we meet a bear, are frightened and run; we are insulted by a rival, are angry and strike. The hypothesis here to be defended says that this order of sequence is incorrectthat we feel sorry because we cry, angry because we strike, afraid because we tremble

More simply put, this theory states that when we see a bear, we do not run because we are afraid, but that we are afraid because we run. On the surface, this seems like a chicken and egg question. But looked at more succinctly, I think this is about how we come to know what we feel.

What has been discussed here in other posts is how the evolution of a dynamic with one's mother can result in living as a secret container for her emotions. As a result of this condition, in thinking about this, my mind naturally tries to separate and detach emotions from impulses. Yet as most survivors here know, the impulses that are the source of true difficulty in experiences of abuse are bound up in all kinds of feelings. Getting back to the chicken and egg problem, understanding the difference between impulses and emotions is not always that easy to do.

The conscious anxiety between my mother and I has always been addressed by the first half of the quote. I often think about why I avoid her based on what I'm feeling. But the greater part of the anxiety seems to belong more to the second half of the quote. I know I'm very anxious at times and I know it results in overwhelming emotions. What I don't really get is all of why I'm anxious. A lot of the bad stuff happened in the past. She and I have some good ongoing discussions. They lapse less into confusing mires, based on my sticking to what I have come to understand.

As James argues, feelings may be following from physical sensations instead of resulting in them. For me, there is an ongoing experience of physical sensation that remains stuck behind a traumatic veil. It is tumultuous and rocky ground. What can be hard to do and yet necessary to try to do, is to come into awareness of the trembling, the sensations that slowly emerge if I let them. From there, small pieces of the true emotion come into my conscious experience.

This can involve knowing what my body temperature is, where I am feeling tight in my body, how my breathing is going. All of these are relevant to getting handle on the ongoing dissociation from the interaction and avoidance of the anxiety. All of the above are about finding a way to live in the present. All of the above are about undoing the mirroring of myself in an interaction that makes it hard to know what is actually happening.

I sincerely apologize if this rambling appears only as some sort of philosophical quibble. Perhaps the problem is that it is not clear how much of what I am talking about came into being before I was able to process it mentally and emotionally. Given how I handled my confusion in the past, I can only consider now slowly walking through the tremendous concern about ongoing conditions of helplessness within.

In any case, it would be great to hear from anyone for whom any aspect of this makes some sense.

FB

 

[don64]

Hi FB,

I observe my anxiety seeming to remain constant or escalate. I observe myself feeding it with medication, food, sugar. The surplus food and sugar makes me sicker physically. This is ongoing right now. I have re-entered the world of people recently, so my "people" are your "mother."

My damage occurred so early. I am now spending some time going back to the womb and infusing myself with love, bringing my current consciousness to the toxic soup I was infused with in the womb. I have recently come to understand how much my mother hated all her children, hated having children, hated seeing her only choice as to be married and have children. Hate, hate, hate. So, right now, I'm doing what I can to heal my pre-birth self of the hatred I sustained in the womb.

I run because I am afraid, and I am afraid because I run. Both are always true for me. I run because I am afraid, and I am afraid when I run because I observe that I am out of control. I am just now seeing that, for me, the challenge is to simply not run. The challenge is to slow down enough to allow a NATURAL process to unfold in myself. I do feel there is a power that is love, and that I have an opportunity to choose that as the guiding principle in my life. I also believe and am beginning to experience that love has the ability to heal me. It's just that the diffuse terror and horror that seems to be behind some impenetrable veil feels constant whenever I stop.

So, as I see it my challenge is to learn to just stop. If I just stop, I allow the time and space I need for love to actually work. Scares the shit out of me.

I hadn't been able to wrap my mind around any of this until your post inspired me. I've been in a lot of pain for a few days--physical body a wreck, out of control. You're a gift.

Sending you love and support,

Don

 

[sorryson]

FB I understand. I have always had a sense, a need to keep Mama happy and do what she said. I shared almost everything with from my dating to comparing my dates motehrs to Mama. When I married my wife helped me to stop this unhealthy talk with Mama. Now as I face the sexual abuse and my estrangement from my Dad who died recently. I am beginning to understand my relationship with Mama. It was not a healthy one, she would leave, return, manipulate us to believe she was the one being controlled but her words, tears and actions were actually controlling us, the children and pushing Dad away. She was consumed with being loved at all costs. She measured love by her children and how they cow towed to her, like she did with her mother and siblings. It destroyed the family and the children and nearly pushed Dad overboard.

I can only look back and see how complicit I became in Mama's game, turning me into an abuser of Dad. It is a vicious cycle and no one believes there is emotional and psychological abuse. No family escapes it, but some families are masters of guilt and this type of control. I now have trouble thinking of Mama and her family as being good. I know they did many good things but their need to be right and pompous and all knowing makes me sick. It nearly killed my brother and I am thankful my wife was the sound of reason and put me ahead of all. Teaching me if parents put each other first then they send positive messages to their children. Mama did not do this, she put her mother, then sisters and brothers, her father then us children. Dad was basically thrown off the truck.

Maybe Mama's attempt to admit and accept responsibility for what happened will help close these wounds. I am angry and cry about what was done. I hope I can be as calm and introspective as you are today about what happened.

 

[KMCINVA]

I am sorry you endured such pain. It seems the pain comes from a place of hate for Don, no child should endure such. I hope you introspective review of life from the beginning will release the pain and help you to realize you are you and what one did to you does not define you. You need to stop running because you are afraid and stop being afraid because you are running. It is a cycle and I hope you are able to bring it to an end. Living in fear or being afraid holds you back. I am happy you are taking an introspective look and I hope it takes away the fear, she can no longer hurt you.

Focusedbody your quote was insightful especially "For me, there is an ongoing experience of physical sensation that remains stuck behind a traumatic veil. It is tumultuous and rocky ground". These words so concisely capture the physical sensation, the body memories which held me during the nightmares and flashbacks. Reliving every moment of the abuse over and over. These physical sensations were stuck because I was stuck in the abuse, unable to release it, unable to accept it. The physical sensations were worse the the traumatic event in memory, it brought the abuse to life. I wish no one to relive their CSA. It is important that we share and not keep the secret. As I read this, I thought of those nights and days, I saw the scratches on my arms as I tried to wipe his touch, it seemed to work for a short period of time and then he was back. No longer is the traumatic veil in place, I have taken it down. In hindsight it sounds so simple to face the abuse, in reality it is the most difficult thing I ever done in my life. I feared I would shatter whatever was left of me, not realizing the abuse controlled my mind and heart.

Sorryson, Focusedbody wrote "What has been discussed here in other posts is how the evolution of a dynamic with one's mother can result in living as a secret container for her emotions." It seems you lived the emotions of your mother and her mother before her. Your mother was a product of her upbringing and her need to please her mother and brothers and sisters, as you have said. It seems your mother's emotions came from she was taught and believed was love. Unfortunately, as with all emotions, if left unchecked can have a negative and controlling effect, they can be overpowering especially for a child. You carried these emotions a lifetime and I hope you are letting go. Do not blame yourself for what happened to your father, you were just a bystander who got caught in the battering wave of life. Your father had much to deal with, his own CSA, learning of your CSA and his family environment. But look at him, you have said he found happiness and that is all anyone deserves.

Focusedbody thanking for sharing. It was not a ramble, it was thought provoking. I need this from time to time to remember where I was and where I am today. I do not want to slip back to that dark place. It also reminded me how my mother's passing brought me to the priest that helped me to face the parish and the diocese. For me, was it divine intervention, fate or my mother's last act to help me heal and have a life I deserve. I like to think it was the latter.

Focusedbody, Don and Sorryson I am sorry for the pain you are experiencing. Remember letting it go and removing the traumatic veil will help you to be free. Thoughts are with you.

 

[tbkkfile]

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[learning2remember]

I thnk I know what you are talking about. I agree that our physical behaviour can influence our emotions, but it is not the only factor. In the case of you adn your Mom, I'm not sure which behaviours or emotions you are talking about. In mw own case, I used to harm myself in an attempt to cope with memories of abuse. The reasons for that were complex, but I'll admit that it is still a struggle sometimes. One thing I realised though, was that the physical pain at first offered a kind of distraction, but would quickly become a kind of confirmation of negative messages, that somehow if I wanted to think highly enough of myself not to hurt myself, I was going to have to stop hurting myself. That was hard for me to do; to resist the urge even when part of me thought I deserved to hurt. After a pain-free period, though, my thinking about myself had changed, and I could see I didn't deserve it. So, our physical behaviour can reinforce self messages. I bet this isn't exactly what you were talking about, but I hope there is enough overlap.

 

[focusedbody]

somehow if I wanted to think highly enough of myself not to hurt myself, I was going to have to stop hurting myself. That was hard for me to do; to resist the urge even when part of me thought I deserved to hurt. After a pain-free period, though, my thinking about myself had changed, and I could see I didn't deserve it. So, our physical behaviour can reinforce self messages. I bet this isn't exactly what you were talking about, but I hope there is enough overlap.

Learning2remember:

In many ways this is exactly what I'm talking about.

Over the years, when I truly wanted to feel myself and feel good about myself, I would be conscious as I could of anything I would do that would hurt myself. I also remember at one point realizing that the extent to which I was hurting myself with negative thinking, was also the extent to which it seemed I needed to feel something.

The difficult ground between my Mom and I is full of a kind of fear related to this. It colors our tone of voice and the way in which we refer to things. When I listen to all of these aspects of the conversation, it gives me information about the implicit and implied messages I took in growing up.

Some of these messages reflect her ignorance about boys and sexuality. This reminds me of who she is and how she came to understand the world.

Slowly, I am attempting to find new points of reference with her. I'm hoping it will make this territory a little safer. Unfortunately, as I try to come more into an awareness of me in the midst of this, the panic and anxiety reach a high point. I'm thankful for a good therapist who is helping me find ways to soothe and calm myself. When I am in these states, I'm not sure I can feel anything at all. Pain becomes signal that I'm getting somewhere. I wish it weren't so. I want to go back to my avoidant ways. I see myself grab my coat before it is time to go.

But then my heart slows a bit and I know where I am standing. And I love feeling who I am again. And again. No matter how naked I feel to the world and what I have been through.




tbkkfile:

By the way, you did not hijack the thread. I appreciated your comments.

FB