Article about religion
Article about religion
- Thread starterCastle
- Start date
I thought one is the really important part, about the noones, And something survivors can relate too is hearing " me too"
As the group grows and others diminish there is less shame to saying I don't believe out loud and not being ostracized for having that opinion. "Funny" how "funny" it is to not feel safe in society to say they dont below and how others can completely put out a person or group based on believing something today just can't be proved.
Like being a survivor... The more people who speak their truth, the more people who feel they can finally speak up
Sounds familiar and important.
As the group grows and others diminish there is less shame to saying I don't believe out loud and not being ostracized for having that opinion. "Funny" how "funny" it is to not feel safe in society to say they dont below and how others can completely put out a person or group based on believing something today just can't be proved.
Like being a survivor... The more people who speak their truth, the more people who feel they can finally speak up
Sounds familiar and important.
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Hi Castle,
I'm very sorry that religion and spirituality has had such a negative impact and influence on you as you deal with sexual abuse as well as all that goes into raising a family and just living in this country. I would certainly agree that there have been MANY abuses done to countless individuals all in the name of religion.
But I want to point out what has already been posted earlier. The main thrust of this particular forum is titled - Healthy Living - Spirituality and Survivors.
This forum is for open discussions on the role of spirituality and faith in journeys of healing.
It's not to try to shoot down a survivor's belief system. Not that that would be possible anyway. But, The role of spirituality and faith has been pretty significant to me in my journey of healing. I still sometime question "Where was God all the times I was being abused? " but I think some day I'll have that and thousands of other questions answered. The whole scenario for me has a great deal to do with my spiritual well bring. I doubt if you would care to, but I would be more than willing to discuss how religion and spirituality have personally helped me all my life. Of course, everyone doesn't agree, and there's no need for everyone to agree with me. On the other hand, there's no need for those who don't agree with me to insist that I change my thinking.
I don't go to the Humor forum with spiritual ideas. That's for humor. I don't go to the Survivors of Female Abuse forum to discuss spiritual subjects. That's about female abuse. I don't go yo the Poetry forum and make rhyming couplets of bible verses. Nor do I go to Introductions forum to ask a new member about their spiritual life. There is a time and place for everything, and quite frankly I think your timing is a little off, and this is definitely not the place to bemoan the problems of living as an atheist in America. It seems to me with your news link you've needlessly set up a straw man to knock down, reviewing the wrongs and hurts that religion has caused you in life.
Opinions are like ass holes, everyone has one. And mine is (opinion, that is) that the time and place to challenge ideas about how wrong religion is, or how liberating it is to not believe in God would be when the discussion revolves around THAT subject. If you are attacked for your views, or feel unsafe expressiing an opposing view, of course you should refute such and strongly defend your beliefs. But your quoted article is attacking no one, only giving some statistical findings based on Pew Research. The research seems to be what you would hope for, a lessening of religious influence in America.
I would really like for anyone to feel safe to express themselves on the forums, and I'm sorry to hear you feel unsafe to do so. But it's a two way deal. Guys with ideas different than yours also need to feel safe. That's why this particular forum has the title it does.
I'm very sorry that religion and spirituality has had such a negative impact and influence on you as you deal with sexual abuse as well as all that goes into raising a family and just living in this country. I would certainly agree that there have been MANY abuses done to countless individuals all in the name of religion.
But I want to point out what has already been posted earlier. The main thrust of this particular forum is titled - Healthy Living - Spirituality and Survivors.
This forum is for open discussions on the role of spirituality and faith in journeys of healing.
It's not to try to shoot down a survivor's belief system. Not that that would be possible anyway. But, The role of spirituality and faith has been pretty significant to me in my journey of healing. I still sometime question "Where was God all the times I was being abused? " but I think some day I'll have that and thousands of other questions answered. The whole scenario for me has a great deal to do with my spiritual well bring. I doubt if you would care to, but I would be more than willing to discuss how religion and spirituality have personally helped me all my life. Of course, everyone doesn't agree, and there's no need for everyone to agree with me. On the other hand, there's no need for those who don't agree with me to insist that I change my thinking.
I don't go to the Humor forum with spiritual ideas. That's for humor. I don't go to the Survivors of Female Abuse forum to discuss spiritual subjects. That's about female abuse. I don't go yo the Poetry forum and make rhyming couplets of bible verses. Nor do I go to Introductions forum to ask a new member about their spiritual life. There is a time and place for everything, and quite frankly I think your timing is a little off, and this is definitely not the place to bemoan the problems of living as an atheist in America. It seems to me with your news link you've needlessly set up a straw man to knock down, reviewing the wrongs and hurts that religion has caused you in life.
Opinions are like ass holes, everyone has one. And mine is (opinion, that is) that the time and place to challenge ideas about how wrong religion is, or how liberating it is to not believe in God would be when the discussion revolves around THAT subject. If you are attacked for your views, or feel unsafe expressiing an opposing view, of course you should refute such and strongly defend your beliefs. But your quoted article is attacking no one, only giving some statistical findings based on Pew Research. The research seems to be what you would hope for, a lessening of religious influence in America.
I would really like for anyone to feel safe to express themselves on the forums, and I'm sorry to hear you feel unsafe to do so. But it's a two way deal. Guys with ideas different than yours also need to feel safe. That's why this particular forum has the title it does.
i love god. he loves me.
man gets stuck in the middle.
i try not to let religion and tradition get between me and my creator.
my own personal belief system has never been based on popular opinion or statistics.
it has been cobbled together from experience and research and observation.
man gets stuck in the middle.
i try not to let religion and tradition get between me and my creator.
my own personal belief system has never been based on popular opinion or statistics.
it has been cobbled together from experience and research and observation.
Was Castle's original post located in the spirituality section? I ask because I am confused; this is off topic.
I also read some of the replies to his original post. Am I really not permitted to talk about the negatives of religion here?
I also read some of the replies to his original post. Am I really not permitted to talk about the negatives of religion here?
Through the efforts of the Moderators, and perhaps Divine intervention (lol) this whole thread now has a new home - Off Topic - which should be more comfortable.
@Castle. I hope your signature statement doesn't apply in this case, and your comments will not self destruct. Keep posting. There should be room for all points of view on such an emotional subject.
I've often heard, and genuinely believe, "The truth will set you free. But first it'll piss you off."
@Castle. I hope your signature statement doesn't apply in this case, and your comments will not self destruct. Keep posting. There should be room for all points of view on such an emotional subject.
I've often heard, and genuinely believe, "The truth will set you free. But first it'll piss you off."
Although I'm not sure how the joke proved your point, I offer my sincere apology for inserting the divinity joke in the forum.
It's not my intention to try to marginalize anyone. The stated purpose of the original topic "Spirituality and Survivors" is
[quote:Healthy Living Forums]This forum is for open discussions on the role of spirituality and faith in journeys of healing. Attacks on any community of faith are not appropriate or permitted.[/quote]
I failed to see how statistical research on declining interest in religions, and your experiences as a non believer were appropriate for the chosen forum topic. I still don't, although I assure you I had absolutely nothing to do with removing it from that particular section.
It's not my intention to try to marginalize anyone. The stated purpose of the original topic "Spirituality and Survivors" is
[quote:Healthy Living Forums]This forum is for open discussions on the role of spirituality and faith in journeys of healing. Attacks on any community of faith are not appropriate or permitted.[/quote]
I failed to see how statistical research on declining interest in religions, and your experiences as a non believer were appropriate for the chosen forum topic. I still don't, although I assure you I had absolutely nothing to do with removing it from that particular section.
Hi Castle,
I don't see that there is anything Off Topic about what you posted, feeling isolated or ostracised or unsafe around faith issues in your journey of healing is on topic for the spiritual forum, neither did your post attack any faith community.
I feel fortunate to live in the UK, faith is generally treated as a private matter and a large and growing part of the population have no faith.
Just wanted to let you know you are not alone.
I don't see that there is anything Off Topic about what you posted, feeling isolated or ostracised or unsafe around faith issues in your journey of healing is on topic for the spiritual forum, neither did your post attack any faith community.
I feel fortunate to live in the UK, faith is generally treated as a private matter and a large and growing part of the population have no faith.
Just wanted to let you know you are not alone.
i was never persecuted or treated badly as a non-believer. my experience has been the exact opposite. people did not criticize me while i was exploring my spirituality all through the decades, until i finally found something that worked for me at the age of 50. ever since i started to share what i know about the amazing infinite love i now enjoy, i have been shot down and shut up. some old friends have questioned my sanity, and others claim i am going crazy. some say i am simple-minded and stupid to believe in fairy tales and fantasies. when i was into buddhism, hinduism, krsna consciousness, islamism, eckankar, shiva, kali, ba'hai, shamanism, etc, everyone thought it was cool and exotic and interesting and they asked lots of questions, or they would say something like "whatever turns your crank" or "to each his own" or even "whatever". now that i have found a solution through salvation, i have received unexpected opposition and encountered much undeserved hostility. instantly, people hate me and are angry with me, as soon as i reveal i am a follower of jesus christ. they blame me for the crimes of the various churches. people also automatically assume i am homophobic. this is not even remotely the case. in fact, ironically, all throughout my life, i have been constantly suspected and accused of being homosexual. i have had plenty of experimental and spontaneous experiences in that world. i never denied it, nor have i claimed it. i eschew labels, which are a poor substitute for identity and self-esteem.
i, myself, was abused, assaulted, raped and molested by people who called themselves christians. when i got older, i realized that anyone can claim any label. it is the intentions and actions that define a person, not their name or title. when i first rejected the corruption in the christian church, i made the big mistake of throwing the baby out with the diaper.
when i was a youth in surrey, i was bullied and attacked and beaten up by gangs of boys from punjabi sikh families. what they did to me was wrong, but i did not blame the Guru Granth Sahib or Baba Nanak.
one cannot blame the declaration of independence for the My Lai massacre. i have had many crimes committed against me by policemen, in uniform, on duty. that does not mean that the institution and concepts and doctrines of law enforcement are evil. it only takes a handful of committed members driven with a plan to take over any organization from within. i have seen it. i have done it. if the goals are malevolent, then the results are negative. the goals of the elite inner circle may not be the same as the stated purpose of the organization.
people are the problem. i can think of many great organizations with excellent constitutions which are completely corrupt. they accomplish the opposite of their mandates. that does not negate the original philosophy or principles upon which the constitution and organization were founded. the fault lies with the incompetence, ignorance, malice and malfeasance that lives in the hearts of the organization's members, executives and administrators. people are the problem, and to be more specific, pedophiles are predators. they use camouflage and blinds and weapons and every other hunting trick to catch their prey. that strategy includes infiltrating groups that enjoy the public trust, possess influence and power, and have access to children.
the fact that they discredit the organization is of no concern to the perp. he is only worried about his own exposure or reputation or conviction or punishment.
that is my opinion and experience.
hope it helps.
i, myself, was abused, assaulted, raped and molested by people who called themselves christians. when i got older, i realized that anyone can claim any label. it is the intentions and actions that define a person, not their name or title. when i first rejected the corruption in the christian church, i made the big mistake of throwing the baby out with the diaper.
when i was a youth in surrey, i was bullied and attacked and beaten up by gangs of boys from punjabi sikh families. what they did to me was wrong, but i did not blame the Guru Granth Sahib or Baba Nanak.
one cannot blame the declaration of independence for the My Lai massacre. i have had many crimes committed against me by policemen, in uniform, on duty. that does not mean that the institution and concepts and doctrines of law enforcement are evil. it only takes a handful of committed members driven with a plan to take over any organization from within. i have seen it. i have done it. if the goals are malevolent, then the results are negative. the goals of the elite inner circle may not be the same as the stated purpose of the organization.
people are the problem. i can think of many great organizations with excellent constitutions which are completely corrupt. they accomplish the opposite of their mandates. that does not negate the original philosophy or principles upon which the constitution and organization were founded. the fault lies with the incompetence, ignorance, malice and malfeasance that lives in the hearts of the organization's members, executives and administrators. people are the problem, and to be more specific, pedophiles are predators. they use camouflage and blinds and weapons and every other hunting trick to catch their prey. that strategy includes infiltrating groups that enjoy the public trust, possess influence and power, and have access to children.
the fact that they discredit the organization is of no concern to the perp. he is only worried about his own exposure or reputation or conviction or punishment.
that is my opinion and experience.
hope it helps.
some more articles about faith.
these are from Psychology Today.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sapient-nature/201104/when-the-going-gets-tough-the-atheists-go-praying
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sapient-nature/201104/is-atheism-just-another-faith
and IF we want to base our faith on trends or statistics then we should consider islam...
Islam is world's fastest-growing religion, will equal Christianity by 2050
https://www.christiantoday.com/article/islam.is.worlds.fastest.growing.religion.will.equal.christianity.by.2050/51321.htm
https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/02/living/pew-study-religion/
https://foreignpolicy.com/2007/05/14/the-list-the-worlds-fastest-growing-religions/
according to these articles "from Muslims in Europe to evangelical Christians in Africa, it is religious believers who are shaping the early 21st Century."
what other people think about god, is really none of my business, other than curiousity, i have no desire to imitate or follow other seekers, unless they are living the life i wish to live. i only take advice from people i want to copy.
so ultimately, i do not want to worry about what other people claim to believe. i only am interested in knowing about it.
i am working on my own personal relationship with my concept of the source and creator of life, the universe and everything.
always looking for fresh outlooks and new information, but i can honestly say that everything i have ever truly learned in life (plus a whole lot more stuff i have not learned yet) is already clearly contained in the scriptures and gospels. jesus still makes sense after thousands of years. i have not managed to discover or invent or create anything new.
these are from Psychology Today.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sapient-nature/201104/when-the-going-gets-tough-the-atheists-go-praying
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sapient-nature/201104/is-atheism-just-another-faith
and IF we want to base our faith on trends or statistics then we should consider islam...
Islam is world's fastest-growing religion, will equal Christianity by 2050
https://www.christiantoday.com/article/islam.is.worlds.fastest.growing.religion.will.equal.christianity.by.2050/51321.htm
https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/02/living/pew-study-religion/
https://foreignpolicy.com/2007/05/14/the-list-the-worlds-fastest-growing-religions/
according to these articles "from Muslims in Europe to evangelical Christians in Africa, it is religious believers who are shaping the early 21st Century."
what other people think about god, is really none of my business, other than curiousity, i have no desire to imitate or follow other seekers, unless they are living the life i wish to live. i only take advice from people i want to copy.
so ultimately, i do not want to worry about what other people claim to believe. i only am interested in knowing about it.
i am working on my own personal relationship with my concept of the source and creator of life, the universe and everything.
always looking for fresh outlooks and new information, but i can honestly say that everything i have ever truly learned in life (plus a whole lot more stuff i have not learned yet) is already clearly contained in the scriptures and gospels. jesus still makes sense after thousands of years. i have not managed to discover or invent or create anything new.
.
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i really wanted to be an atheist, but it required too much faith. it was impossible for me to completely and honestly deny the existence of a creator. i was incapable of successfully maintaining my godless belief in the face of reality... not without denying all the evidence to the contrary.
i was also unable to rid myself of empathy. i did not want to feel other people's pain. hell, i did not even want to feel my own. my conscious objective to create a much desired cold, black heart of stone, too, proved impossible to develop, achieve or sustain.
i, now, choose not to compartmentalize, but rather i wish to create an integrated personality. i want to live a life in which my inner thoughts are not in conflict with my external actions.
There are two struggles: an Inner-world struggle and an Outer-world struggle. You must make an intentional contact between these two worlds; then you can crystallize data for the Third World, the World of the Soul.
G.I. Gurdjieff
The greatness of an artist or organization lies in the building of an inner world and in the ability to reconcile this inner world with the outer.
Albert Einstein
The task before us, if we are to live an integrated, meaningful life, is to come to a place of clarity and regular application so that our declared and demonstrated values are consistent and complimentary, not contradictory.
Daniel Henderson
i was also unable to rid myself of empathy. i did not want to feel other people's pain. hell, i did not even want to feel my own. my conscious objective to create a much desired cold, black heart of stone, too, proved impossible to develop, achieve or sustain.
i, now, choose not to compartmentalize, but rather i wish to create an integrated personality. i want to live a life in which my inner thoughts are not in conflict with my external actions.
There are two struggles: an Inner-world struggle and an Outer-world struggle. You must make an intentional contact between these two worlds; then you can crystallize data for the Third World, the World of the Soul.
G.I. Gurdjieff
The greatness of an artist or organization lies in the building of an inner world and in the ability to reconcile this inner world with the outer.
Albert Einstein
The task before us, if we are to live an integrated, meaningful life, is to come to a place of clarity and regular application so that our declared and demonstrated values are consistent and complimentary, not contradictory.
Daniel Henderson
