Angry Outbursts, punishment? Need help...

[WontGiveUp]

Ceremony posted a good question to another supporter here,

" How's his calm, how's yours? "

This really hit me hard.... How is his calm... how is mine....

My calm was actually quite level, I have been feeling calm for a very long time, partly as a reaction to HIM being calm and in control. When he is like that, we are open with each other, there is a genuineness to our interactions. There is a calmness and gentleness between us. There is consideration for each other, and we put each other first. These times are truly lovely, and are becoming more frequent and longer lasting each time. He is generally happy, bad moods are infrequent.
He doesnt get frustrated much (very rarely), and when he does, he RARELY will have angry outbursts. His headaches seem to lesson (he has them daily, but they are less intense, and migraines are less frequent). He follows through on things he says he is going to do far more often(like what ever chores he says he will take care of, or tasks needed to be done) and he doesnt loose things as much. No one is perfect, but he is usually on top of things, is kind and considerate, and is flexible as well as listens to me and generally pays attention to his surroundings. hell, he even interacts with me on social media, and generally is involved in my life.


Normally, end of December, through January, Feb, and the first weeks of March, this calmness disappears. He becomes withdrawn , irritable, prone to angry outbursts and meanness towards me. His headaches get worse and he really seems to focus alot of that onto me. I become enemy #1. His beloved sister passed away in Jan, and also her birthday is in Jan, so I understand why the moods shift...

This year, the mood didnt shift dramatically like it has historically. Other than becoming a little less aware of his surroundings, and a little more forgetful (walking away from fridge door still open, leaving water running in the sink, etc, he seemed to be OK. Other than one incident (posted about it previously) - no angry outbursts, no simmering anger directed at me.

We have our trip coming up in just under 2 weeks now, and its seems in the last 2 weeks or so, that mood shift is happening again. He has started getting frustrated with me about stuff, daily angry outbursts in the past week - enough that I just have to walk away into another part of the house. I feel like I have to walk on eggshells again, and I hate that feeling.

I suspect that since he also started this new job, he is trying again to establish a routine - and maybe he is just overly stressed from this?

My problem is that why am I the single focus of this anger and frustration? He absolutely NEVER treats anyone else the way he feels free to treat me. Is this because I am the closest person to him? Do you think he feels vulnerable - and when things are not stressful he is comfortable and OK with having that open vulnerability, but when he gets stressed, it makes him angry and maybe compelled to hurt me since I am "there" or I am "me"? He will punish me with contempt (rolling eyes, annoyed tones when talking to me, general frustration with most everything I say and do). He then says he isnt or didnt realize he was doing so, which I cant figure out is honest or just an attempt to punish me more by gaslighting me.

He aknowledges this, and says he will figure it out, and I want to give him the room to do so, but is there any thing I can do in the mean time to both stop this behavior, and at the same time be supportive to him in his efforts to gain some self control?

Last night, he really got angry with me over taking my friend's dog back home (we were dogsitting while they were out of town). I had been telling him for several days that they would be home Monday night, and that they were expecting us to bring him home tues night or wed night. We must have talked about it 7-8 times and I was so specific! We have a very tight schedule with the trip coming up, so limited time to do ANYTHING, so everything is pretty planned out. For some reason, he kept pushing taking the dog home last night, and I was trying to keep the subject light because I was getting annoyed that he wasnt listening to me. Finally, after having the conversation about 30 minutes prior, he came up stairs and said he was taking the dog back to their house right then. I reacted probably in shock and a little annoyed and asked him what was he doing, that we had talked about this and he flipped out on me, yelled at me and just held up his hand to me (stop signal) and stormed out of the room. Honestly, I was fighting the urge to tell him to leave and not come back. All the trust and confidence he had built over the past year, really, just crumbled in the 5 minutes he was yelling at me.

After he stormed out, he came back up stairs after 10-15 minutes or so and apologized. He said he had misunderstood and "thought I meant"....and honestly this just made me angry. I was exceedingly clear, he just chose to not listen to me. So I said that I didnt understand why he felt he could treat me the way he does, and that I knew he didnt listen to me - which is why I feel like I cannot count on him. He aknoweldged it and said he would figure it out, that he was trying.

I DO believe him, he would not have apologized a year ago. I would have had to break the ice. he has made HUGE progress with this, and I also said that too him. I told him that I did appreciate the very significant progress he has made. I emphaiszed how great it was that he had come this far and that it was very much realized and appreciated.

He again stated he is still trying to figure things out, and I told him that his apology was accepted. We were able to have a decent evening after that. However, for the last couple of weeks he still has had that withdrawn undercurrent, like a simmering frustration and anger just ready to come out.

I also wonder if its because earlier that night I asked him if he could please follow through with taking care of the house while I am neck deep in prep work for the trip. He told me 2 weeks ago that he would deal with making sure the house stayed clean etc while I dealt with getting everything done for our camping trip (its insane the amount of work I still need to do here - SO stressed out!). He has not kept up on that, and the house is in shambles and smells. I asked him gently if he could pick up some since I was doing pre work, he had told me he would handle it so that I could 100% focus on the pre trip work - he said he knew he slacked and would deal with it. I wonder if he was feeling "controlled" that I asked him to follow through, and he decided to ignore me by not listening to me about taking the dog back and then set us up to have a confrontation? Sometimes I think that he feels a compulsion to sabatoge things when we are doing very well, and honestly - we have been doing better than we ever have before as a DIRECT result of him taking responsibility for his own actions and developing the first tendrils of self control.

I wish he would come here and read this forum, I think if he could do so and get to know some of you other survivors and share his story, his fears, his goals it would help him so much. But he wont. :-(

Edited to add:

I just wish I knew how to better handle my own reactions to my husbands anger issues. They are pretty intense and pretty deep, and i think he is really just starting to scratch the surface on them. He for sure has transferance of anger to me. I think I need to re-read some of the books I have on this, because I think he might be entering a next phase of recovery or something.

 

[WontGiveUp]

I was going to edit again, but I think a new post clarifying some of this anger stuff is needed.

I dont think the anger my husband has is bad, I think its good - I think he has a right to feel it and to own it. I hope he can work through it and let go of it, but I rather him angry than fearful. I just dont want it to be a destructive force in his or my life.

I dont want it to become a weapon to hurt me or others with, or an excuse to give up or not own his own life and his accountability.

I could be wrong, but I think that he needs to really try to understand it and get at the root so that it doesnt haunt him anymore. I cant do it for him - but I want to help him and support him and encourage him so that he CAN. Make sense? I need to better control my own responses and actions.

 

[greenwizard]

I think it's just easier to lash out at the ones we love. My girlfriend and I love each other very much, but sometimes when one of us has a bad day we snap at the other over stupid things. When you have that vulnerability there is bad to go along with the good.

I'm glad to hear he is doing better and at least apologized. That is a good sign. He probably should reach out for some kind of help. I know coming here and finding I am not alone in my feelings helped a great deal. And while it was kind of awkward and triggered depression for a few days, therapy was a very good thing too.

I would just say try very hard not to take it personally. I know I myself have trouble keeping up with household chores, and it annoys my girlfriend to no end because she works all day and I don't. We've had fights over it when her annoyance builds up.

Also keep encouraging him to work through things. It is really not easy, especially by yourself, which is why I would encourage him to seek help as well.

 

[Ceremony]

I get what you're sharing WGU. That first part, managing as a stable couple in good times has been the exquisite ideal for couples. And, it seems we're built to seek that in whatever manifestation arrives. When it works it's good, but when it gets difficult, it can sure be a storm.

This stuff is much like the neglect from an alcoholic, often making promises to be better, but disappointments abound. On top of all the struggle, we have our own emotions and bodies to manage. Ughhh... and like we know, that's an acute issue to many of us. Being comfortable seems to require so many methods too.

Do we have the right diet, the right therapist, the right communication attitude, the right exercise, meditation, yoga, walks, bikes, Agggghhhh... see me running away!!!

So, yeah, what a bunch of STUFF!!

And in all of it, manage stress. Like hubbies job. Oh, man, that's a biggie. I empathize with him, but wish he had more sensitivity, more insight to what's in it to share with you. I don't know if it's always that I have overzealous ideals, that method to drive me up the wall with the wish list of what if, but I temper it with stoicism that it's a pipe dream. So, another weird bag of stuff it can seem? I see you carry ideals too, and it's like I'm reading your hubbies have faded to the background. Then, his anxiety about that job, the upcoming camping, the stress of what he might be doing with you, money, friends who enable him, STUFF!

So, damn, I don't want to post another book, but this is deep and entangled living. Nothing easy to discuss for sure.

You're wanting to have a gentle soul in a world that demands action and aggressive proactive lives. Which demands we make time for ourselves, make an effort to heal ourselves, be good to ourselves. Where is that partner to hug and snuggle, kiss and be passionate. Yeah, life can sometimes be a bag of doo.

I get how as partners, what is it that we get the shite, like no one else does? Sure, it does come down to being the safest person to be a jerk to is our partner, but why does being a jerk have to be in the cards? What is it that makes that a part of things? Stress always comes to my mind, and the mixed anxiety of fight or flight. That f and f ties to my work here considering perceived threats real or imagined.


This stress anxiety and reactions is a huge burden for you. It's not fair at all, and in my life, I have worked to quell it as having originated from me. I react though, out of rebellion that I'm a brunt of my wife's bullying, or any threat that is dumping on my emotions. Not if it were to offer succor, empathy and solace to her own needs of pain or passion, rather, it's just myself in this one sided dynamic. It seems you also have such a fate, for whatever time it is. I have found that I'm so invested, I had so many firsts and our 2 kids, that the idea of even considering leaving is a huge anxiety. Which connects to my share with Nahl78. I think that's self explanatory.

In my thoughts for you, there's been prayer for calm safety. To all the partners I read about here, I do the same. It's hard to consider the pain partners endure. Because I have to myself. I suppose it's a trigger to have emotions, but I'm not afraid of those, and it's empathy, sadness and hope mixed together. I've been able to handle these. What you describe about sabotage and outbursts to stir up the calm, is edgy stuff for any relationship. I can imagine the stress you endure. And I get what it's like to be inwardly focused like your hubbie seems to be. Mixed up with thinking about oneself, and like, what do I have to do, where am I going and how, it all weighs and creates stress in an already anxious mind. I can know your hubbies stress and anxiety, and I know so many here do. Yeah, he would fit right in. To bad he's fixated on himself too much to know working on himself and helping others makes his own experiences fulfilling.

 

[Ceremony]

Hi WGU, and other partners,

I was browsing things, and noticed this from MS:

Oprah.com "The Aftermath of Male Sexual Abuse"


I read all the related articles and watched the supporter video. I like most of it, especially the part where the conversation of Ray and Oprah is described. Reading about the outbursts of tears that Ray described helped to connect that to the "mourning" that Ray described.

Best wishes supporters. Your work here gives a lot of hope and I hope you not only know that, but also can sense or know goodness and happiness is hoped for you.

Ceremony

 

[HealingHope]

Wgu, it's so confusing figuring out why anyone projects anger onto those closest. My take on projection is to understand it as a defence and I've learnt that it often comes from the unconscious place in the person projecting. In your case your husbands unconscious. His anger is likely coming from his own self concept, perhaps he's angry with himself, and anger often is a response to other emotions such as guilt, shame, hurt & injustice. Perpetrators use projection like masters, projecting their shame onto their victims.

He's angry but my sense it's not with you, I think he's working through pain. . Be gentle with yourself my friend. HH

 

[WontGiveUp]

Ugh - yeah. I can get that he is angry, but I hate that he seems to take it out on me. its very hard to distinguish when I have actually done something to merit the anger, or if its just transference/projection.

To top it off, I really do believe he does small things that he KNOWS bother me, in some sort of weird "revenge" if I call him out on anything. I dont even know if its conscious or not, but it happens regularly.

Right now things are really tough. He had made a ton of progress on things, but it just seems like lately he is doing things to sabotage all of it. I am starting to dread our trip that is coming up in 8 freaking days. I really really really REALLY dont want to spend this very hard earned vacation having to deal with his outbursts or his sulkiness, or him generally treating me like the enemy. I dont want to live on eggshells when I should be enjoying myself and FINALLY getting to have some fun after the past couple of years of nothing but work and sorrow. I dont want to fight him on loading the truck, because he gets frustrated when things wont fit right, I dont want to deal with his frustration at all to be honest. I am tired of being the punching bag for it.

I guess right now I am just really irritated. I had thought I had done well in moving past the latest outburst from him, and we had a nice evening last night (other than me having to AGAIN ask him to take care of the house as he promised me, because he spent 2 hours essentially sitting out side and smoking, pacing the house, and then cooking dinner for 20 minutes).and this morning was nice too, and I go outside and there are cigarette butts all smashed on the driveway where it connects to the walkway to the door. I have asked him a million different times to just throw them away (literally they were maybe 2 feet from the trash can) and that I dont want the front of our house junked up with cigarette butts and trash. He did really good for a long time, but lately, seems every day I see more out there. he already junks up the back deck, and since the dogs go out front, if they get to them they can make them super sick. Its a small thing - but after asking him to take care of ones earlier this week, also me picking some up with out even saying anything at all over the past 2 weeks, for him to have several just smashed up all over the place felt like a slap in the face. I feel like its his way to be a dick to me because I called him out on his angry out burst on me the other day.

Ceremony - thanks for the info, I will check it out for sure! I hope it helps me understand this.

Healing Hope - I really am trying to focus on that, but sometimes he is just do dammed disrespectful and contempuous of me. Its hard to hang on to that when I am myself in the fog of frustration and hurt.

Right now - I am so frustrated I feel like small things are turning into huge things again and I HATE it.

 

[WontGiveUp]

Ceremony - been doing alot of thinking about your post. I think what you said about fear - fear of not doing/saying/having the right things, therapist, etc... that makes alot of sense. I think some of that feeds my husbands idea that he cannot be a good husband. I believe he totally is consumed by fear (even if he cannot realize it).

These angry outburts and the bouts of frustration he has, I wonder if its because for the first time in many years he was able to function and do quite well through the beginning of the year (when he normally mentally just collapses). He has made significant progress, so much so that things that are bothering me now werent even NOTICED before because they are so minor in comparison to other things going on.

In a weird way, I guess me standing up for myself when he gets this way, and this literally being the WORST we deal with these days... this is kinda GOOD I think. We have had some major battles in the past, his lying and acting out harmed me and our marriage greatly. But I can honestly say that it seems that stuff is in the past. That my biggest complaint right now is that he takes out anger on me seems almost like a weird little blessing. It could be so much worse, and I think couples who are "normal" face these very same issues.

My husband has impressed me this week, more than he upset me. And when you weigh that up - and see what wins, its the good hands down. I hope he can see it as much as I can.

That said - I have NO PROBLEM leaving him home and going on this trip alone should his anger and treatment of me escalate. LOL. I just hope it doesnt come to that, because this trip with out him would not be the same at all.

 

[dark empathy]

Hi Wgu.
One thing which I'm afraid rang alarm bells for me was your phrase "walking on eggshells" here.
My wife's first husband she describes as Jekyll and hide. Jekyll is a really nice guy, takes things in stride and is someone she genuinely loved, ---- indeed she's still friends with Jekylll, and I've had amicable phone conversations with him myself he seems like a genuinely nice guy.


the problem is that she could never know when Hide would appear, and hide apparently was a complete monster. not in terms of abuse (though apparently there were times things boardered on that), just in terms of fairly extreme anger twards her, often expressed with cruelty and resentment, fits that could go on a for a long while.

Last night I happened to fold a table up which she still had a half full glass of wine on, ---- so wine all over the carpit.

She let out quite an impressive soprano squeak and the glass hit me on the toe. This lead us both to laugh, despite the wine all over the carpet. (which is red anyway).

When we stopped laughing, she remarked how nice it was to not be afraid of that sort of incident, since apparently Hide could get quite vial about such things, and ended up having to tiptoe around try to avoid them.
this was what eventually lead to their divorce, although it took a long time, since my wife tends to have something ofmentality to just put up with a bad situation.

this isn't to say that your situation is similar, just that for me, phrases like this ring slight bells.

I know rather too well just how hard it is to accept that a situation your in is necessarily a bad one when your in it.
This isn't to say husband is like my wife's first husband, just that evaluating what is going on and deciding what is "better" or "worse" is not always an easy process, and I hope it's one you can keep somewhat objective.

In fairness on the other hand, what I've found useful myself is working out what those things are that cause me to have problems, and even if I cannot actually do anything about my reactions, at least making certain that my reactions are always directed elsewhere.

for me, Frustration manifests in situations where I feel powerless, such as the rejection of my phd when the examiners went back on their word, or when I contemplate the fact that it's nearly impossible for me to find performing options, because directors tend to see sight problems first, voice second.

Ditto with cleaques opportunities and such.
For me, it's being at the mercy of something faceless that tends to send me into a spiral, even if it's something as simple as neighbour complaints about dog dirt.

I know it is a matter of frustration, and feeling generally lost without option, since in my life the worst things that have happened to me have been at the hands of crowds. Equally I do say fairly ugly things, eg, I wished the neighbors who complained about my dog to go blind so they know what I have to cope with, which my wife doesn't appreciate.

for me, the one important thing is never make this personal. I have never been angry at! my wife. On rare occasions mildly irritated, but never angry, and even when irritated we tend to talk things out.
the occasions I feel really frustrated are general, rather than specific, and I do recognize how they occur. Indeed for me impetus to at least avoid my reactions that I don't want to upset my wife, even if I do still feel rather stuck with the circumstances involved (I'm fairly sure if I actually had more opportunities to perform or write or be valued for the things I am goo at, I'd feel less frustrated with life in general, and so less likely to be sent into something of a spiral).One thing I will say is I've noticed myself that for me at least some of the old truths are correct, that I can actually change myself, or at least cope with myself better, for the love of someone else. Of course these actually are things we discuss, indeed usually because after I've got frustrated at something for five minutes or so, I tend to apologise profusely for fear I've heard my lady.

so I do wonder if discussing these reactions with your husband might be a good idea?

I'm not sure, since obviously everyone's situation is different, ---- for example for us, it's usually me that takes care of most of the housework (though my wife does do the laundry as she's rather better at folding clothes than I am). Then again I've lived alone for a long time so it's just natural to me to do things like wash up or cook, indeed sometimes my wife has toactively ask me when she wants to do something or to share doing something together (for example when I tend to get up on a sleepless night and wash the dishes).

then again there are only two of us, we live in a very small flat, neither of us has a 9-5 job and we don't have children, so taking care of household really isn't much of a problem.