An abused person's "compliance"

An abused person's "compliance"
B

Brokenhearted

Registrant
My husband and I were watching the story on the news about the 2 boys being found. He said, "I don't get it....he was ELEVEN...he was found in an apartment and the door wasn't even locked." First I said that being 11 is still a very young KID and that kids' minds are very different from adults'. Then I asked him if he's ever seen an abused dog. The dog will cowar to other dogs, will roll over and expose her soft belly to potential enemies. It seems that if one is ever in an *inescapeable* moment of terror, since he can't flee it, he copes by being compliant. This lays the groundwork for future "compliance."

My personal theory is this is what happens when an abused child grows up - this is why they say survivors can be at risk for more abuse - because if a situation arises at all, such as being merely approached for sex by a stranger, the survivor will "comply" rather than decline. Maybe this is also part of the compulsion to act out, or inability to resist.

There is a great article about how kids respond in different situations at different ages - it talks about being hypervigilant looking for an escape (incidentally a lot of kids are incorectly thought to have ADD or ADHD when they are really just hypervigilant), and being compliant (when there is NO escape): https://www.childtrauma.org/ctamaterials/trauma_and_terror.asp

I hope I am understanding this well enough. This is why I believe survivors are so susceptible to being abused again or even to "affairs" - I don't believe many would ever do it otherwise - and if they knew that there is a reason they are so compliant, they might realize it's not because, as they probably think, they're just a "weak man" or "terrible husband." What do you all think?
 
Brokenhearted,
actually there is not much mystery in such cases.

When you are abused the biggest damage is done to your mind and not body. So someone can be physically free but mentally it is completely different situation and abused person would still be prisoner by chaos in its mind and thus would be blocked from normal thinking.

So it is not uncommon that abused persons would not immediately leave their own abusers; it is result of psychological dynamism that influenced their acts and thinking.

A lot of people are not get it, for me it is easy to understand why is that because they do not see real depth in picture, we can say as if they are actually blind to colors and not to shapes on picture, of course that they are not get it, real picture is much more complex.
 
I think Ivo is pretty much right, its daunting to think of they psychology used on these kids.
Maybe the media should not say for risk of copy cat incidence.

The older guy probably got told his parents died or something.
I watched the news, and they seemed happy enough, but that is the mask that kids wear.

Its a bit like the kids going through tough operations, they seem to not care, but it is a mask against something traumatic to them.

God gives kids resilience, its when they start to get older it affects them more and more because they are 'different'.

ste
 
people have asked me those questions ,why didnt you try to get away ? for me there were lots of reasons ,first was that he kept me isolated locked up for about two months , also at 11 years old if somebody takes you 20 miles from home it might as well be 20 thousand ,i didnt know where home was ,had no idea how to get home if i got away . my abuser told me my parents didnt want me and i believed him . its scary how perps can use stuff against you ,for the last month i was with him he got real brave ,he took me outside with him a few times ,this might be hard to believe but it did happen,he was taking me to another perps house a lot, the first time we went out he made me put his wallet in my coat pocket ,it was weird i had no clue why. we were in a parking lot and two guys were there getting in a car ,i bolted across the parking lot and ran to them ,as soon as i ran my cousin started yelling stop that kid he stold my wallet,the guys grabbed me and i started telling them he was crazy he was hurting me ,he came over and pulled the wallet out of my pocket ,the guys started calling me a little fucking theif and they left me there with him . that night i got the worst beating after that i can remember walking past police men and it never entered my mind to go to them .it might sound stupid but at 11 i really didnt know that what he was doing was against the law this was family and i knew it was bad but i didnt know it was against the law. about what happened to those boys all i can say is the perp had a reason to keep the older one alive and i think we all know what it was . its sick but it kept him alive ,now hes gonna start the road back like all the rest of us .
 
So is this one reason why so many survivors have trouble "asking for help" as adults when the effects of csa start to get hard, instead waiting till they "hit rock bottom" before asking for help? That maybe somehow that old fear is still alive in them as adults? Or maybe they just think no one can help?
 
BH, its all of that and more.
A kid, dont forget expects adults to know best, and when they perform heinous acts on them they expect that of childhood.

Its difficult to paint a picture, but kids comply with adults who are in control of them even in extreme cases.

When they get older after suffering the nightmare of abuse, they question their masculinity, and feel puny in the adult world that they live in, making them vulnerable to further assault or worse.

If I look back on my own childhood, it was nothing short of the fight from hell, and trying to avoid the bad kids was worst, because they would bully you.

If I have to make one statement on these boards, its this;

Imagine a child who seems to be streetwise and confident to his peers, then imagine the same child just wanting to be alone to cry!

Imagine the trust issues within the child who is bullied for feigning attention and not being friends with those who will ultimately bully him for being 'different'.

It makes for terrifically hard times ahead, when he looks for a certain amount of friendship and is overwhelmed by intimate contact which he may abhorr.

He has not evolved as a normal child, and is using his old survival instincts of shunning adults, just as when he did as a kid, expecting dissapointment.

Abuse is just that, expecing the worst to happen, and not embrace true love and affection, which is sadly voided early on in his life, so it is like he does not know how to really love, even if his mind wants him too.

These are learned experiences as children, and they are so difficult to unlearn as adults, because we hid behind them to survive.

I dont need to tell you how bad an abused kid thinks of themselves, and to me, nobody can tell me that I survived.

I am an abused kid, and expect abuse for life, its all I ever knew,

ste
 
Gosh it sounds so bad I wonder if my husband will ever be able to trust even me and learn to be intimate again......they CAN, can't they??? Even if it's hard, even if it's slow? He is missing the true joy and love that is right under his nose. I noticed you've been on this site for about 2 1/2 yrs. Have you at least healed some, do you think? I'm still very hopeful...
 
BH,

Yes, it's possible to relearn trust, but in order to do that one must first realize (admit) there is a problem, then work up the courage to take the necessary steps of seeking help. Once that's accomplished all He*l breaks loose and he questions why he ever thought this was a good idea, and many times goes right back (or tries to) where he was before.

It's not that easy because now he's in a no-man's land between where he was and "normal" and neither seems possible. From there, there are two ways out, recovery or self destruction.

As men on this site we are slowly learning what recovery looks like and taking baby steps in that direction. Every day a little further down the path, and every day just a little more healing takes place.

Yes, it's possible. It's what we have to do because for us, there's no other option.

Lots of love,

John
 
It's not that easy because now he's in a no-man's land between where he was and "normal" and neither seems possible. From there, there are two ways out, recovery or self destruction.
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John, this is an incredibly powerful statement.

ROCK ON......Trish
 
"all He*l breaks loose" ---

This is what I keep hearing about and yet keep trying to imagine. I wish I knew what to expect with my husband. Are you speaking of when the emnotions come out, like anger, sadness, fear, etc? I'm sorry I sound so clueless - you would think I'd KNOW all this since I've been on here for about 6 mos.

I know no one can say for sure b/c everyone is different. But maybe some bad anger moments, hopefully not directed at ME since I'm the one who has encouraged him to go to therapy (his 2nd appt is Tues.) and also, since he's already started going to a therapist maybe it won't be as bad when all He*l breaks loose? Also I wonder how long it typcially lasts, the "all He*l breaking loose", or at least the worst of it.

You guys don't know how much I need y'all's insight/advice/suggestions.
 
BH,

I can only tell you what I've observed in my b/f. It's not like a volcano erupting all at once, that would be too obvious and quite honestly probably easier to deal with.

It's much more subtle. My b/f went through a period of time where, although more than capable of going to work and getting done what he need to do, his down time was consumed by sadness. When he wanted to talk, it was the grief that came out. Occasionally, he would be able to explain the sadness, but more often than not, it was just an overwhelming feeling that permiated every pore of his body.

I'm sorry to say that he's still in that place. Although I do see, in tiny little ways, that he is beginning to pull out of the wholeness of grief. I don't know if that makes any sense, but I don't know how to describe it.

That's where we are, a year after he started therapy. I don't know where he will be a year from now, but I know it's slow progress. Painfully slow, but he's putting in all of his effort, so slow it is. I welcome any positive or even just different changes because its the only payoff to show for all of his hard work.
 
Trish, Hmmm, this is interesting. I wonder if I've already been experiencing some of his "eruption" for some time now. Maybe he just hasn't wanted to talk to me about it. But ever since about the beginning of 2006 I noticed he was not as upbeat as usual, just kind of more tired, and his usual confidence and cheerfulness was replaced by a kind of pessimism about everything. He often says nowadays if something isn't going well at work or wherever, "the story of my life..." just a lot more "down" about things in general than he used to be. Maybe the "event" I've been waiting for has already been happening...he just hasn't talked to me about everything going on in his head. In 2006 he's been more impulsive/reckless with money, he's taken on way more work than usual and work-related travel, he's kept himself even busier with tennis and working out and riding his bike and you-name-it, just seemingly trying to occupy himself so much more than he used to. And of course he's been numb. So I wonder, are these things merely a prelude of more "hell" to come or maybe this IS the hell?

And I wonder if the sadness your bf is experiencing is just one of the "steps" and maybe eventually he will experience anger?

If you don't mind my asking, you mentioned he's been in therapy 1 yr. How often does he go, once a week or less? Not that that could matter, I am sure you can't speed things up but oh well I just wondered.
 
Are you speaking of when the emnotions come out, like anger, sadness, fear, etc?
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Hi BH,

What I was speaking of specifically is, as in my case, is how all the emotion, all the pain, all the remembering, etc. that has been suppressed for years or decades suddenly gushes to the forefront in an unstoppable overwhelming flood. Each flashback brings with it another wave of emotional mess to pile on top of that which is already there undealt with. For me it lasted months before it started slowing down. I still get them on occasion, but at a pace where I can definitely handle it when it comes.

When that wave hit me it was like a freight train. I tried to go back to the denial where I'd been but it was not possible. Each car of that train flattened me again leaving me nearly helpless to function let alone work toward "normal".

But the only person that could decide to seek help was me. It required the admission that I could not handle any of it by myself and to involve my family, a therapist, and anyone else who could tolerate listening to me and they were few and far between. Thank the lord I have an awesome wife and a good T!

Hope that helps answer your question.

Lots of love,

John
 
John, Thank you, you are helping me understand. And when you say "leaving me nearly helpless to function let alone work toward "normal". --- were you at least able to maintain your job? I guess this is a concern of mine as he is the sole provider and I don't have a clue how I could support us if he were unable to work. Maybe I should start looking for work! ALso, was it something you think you could have "hidden" from your family?
 
BH,

I was able to pretty much do my job by rote. Just going through the motions on auto-pilot. I have the option of avoiding interaction with people most of the day if I so choose so that helped. I did have some interpersonal issues during that time because my stress showed up as anger at times.

My wife knew something was up during those months that's for sure. She didn't know what and that worried her. I was unable to talk to her about it which also worried her. So to answer your question, no. I was not able to hide it. No way.

Lots of love,

John
 
John, ok, but you *were* able to hide the reasons for your distress...I think I remember (hope I'm not mixed up) that when you finally went to a T you cried for 2 hrs and it felt so good to get it out....but if that's so, when did you finally tell your wife what the problem was...I'm sure it drove her crazy not knowing...did she confront you or push you or make you feel "safe" in telling her what the problem was?

ALso, I wonder if it's very possible for a person who was csa to be depressed when it starts bubbling up, but not know the reason why? Like literally not know? Like maybe the memories are yet to come (even if they're aware it happened)? Does that make sense? Ok, restate that: My husband knows he was csa. He disclosed yrs to me ago. He brought it up again the other day b/c he almost had to serve on a jury of a child molestation trial and when I asked what kind of case it was he said "it's just like 'my case'". Now, what are the chances that he "does not know why" he is depressed?
 
:)

Yeah, I was able to hide the reason's simply by saying I was not ready to talk about it but promising I would at some point. I told my wife about a month before my first T app. I decided I needed her help in getting that set up. I didn't feel capable and I also wanted to talk to her about it. Knew I needed to.

I certainly had depression tho I was well aware of what the problems were, or thought I did. I didn't know there was a lot yet to come. I had the abuse part down all right, but there were a lot of terrifying details yet to be discovered.

I can't speak for your husbands case of course, but I knew what I was depressed about. What he knows or does not know is best left up to the mental health professional, but my guess is that he knows.

I knew, too, for 5 months before I uttered a peep.

Lots of love,

John
 
bh,

my bf's seemingly inability to say no to so many people/things he clearly did not wish to do was something i never understood until after learning about csa and the damage it does. we had even discussed it several times and he would say he was very passive and unable to say no to people. i always encouraged him to say no if it was what he felt; i saw this as something he became more capable of in our relationship and was one of the reasons i've felt we were good for one another.

yes, compliance issues are there and they are very very real. i think as a partner the hardest thing for me is to make sure i am not asking something of him he truly does not want to do - why he and other survivors sometimes accuse partners of being "pushy" when in our minds, we are simply trying to clarify a point we feel might have been misunderstood, or standing up for ourselves, or any other multitude of other reasons that in a more normal sense would not be out of the ordinary interactions between 2 people.

i try to be very conscious about this aspect of our relationship, maybe more than any other, actually, tho i'm not sure how to explain it exactly.

for my own sake of well-being, it's also important for me to believe he hasn't been somehow 'seduced' by me, that i am as honest and forthright as possible, and that he will be clear about any choice he makes now and in the future regarding our relationship.

this is extremely difficult and more time consuming, but i think in the long run, it is helping him to sort out his trauma-effected feelings and will be more beneficial both to his healing and to our relationship.

all the best,
indy
 
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