advice? Suggestions?

advice? Suggestions?
I

Iwanttohelphim

Registrant
I have been reading Cecilia and Brokenhearted's threads- I have been doing a lot of thinking. I saw their threads and it gave me courage to post this and ask for a sounding board and some suggestions.

To quickly re-cap - my survivor and I have been broken up since January. He knows "something is wrong" he can identify his feelings when he is not in "crisis" and can expess them- he does not know the origens, he does not know how to manage them and he gets triggered.

He has been, for the last year and a half, literally alone, in a sealed building in Iraq. He has no relationship with his family except for a dysfunctional one with his younger brother and sister, who are also very messed up because of abuse.

I have let him be- but I can't. I want to go get him and bring him home. I am very serious about this. I need some advice.

Another re-cap- I am a survivor too who had found recovery, I know where he is. I know it only too well. This is what I would have wanted done for me. I don't know if it what he wants. If he says "no" I will respect it and that will be the end. I do know that with survivors, we have to go the extra mile. I know that nothing less is seen as not careing.

I love him. I do not want to give up until I know I have dome everything possible. then I will know it wasn't "meant to be". I need to do this as much for myself as for him.

I want to go and bring him home. I am thinking I can go in November. I need to be prepared- can anyone weigh in and give me some advice or support?

Thanks
 
Hi,

I know that it has been very difficult for me to discern the difference between helping my partner and ennabling my partner. My helping is pure when it comes as a response to a request by my partner (even if the request seems very small or veiled, I know when he is reaching out). At other times, my "help" has been more about me trying to maintain control of a situation that I really should not try to control.

It is so difficult to know how to love, sometimes.

It *is* very helpful to me to read your post. I have been feeling so alone, but your words from half a world away reconnect me to something larger than the pain I am confronting with my partner.

Love,

Cecilia
 
Thanks Cecilia-

The heartbreak involved with a survivor is unlike any other kind of heartbreak. The body of the man is infront of us, but the soul is locked away- and it is a struggle in all the ways that you mentioned, and more.

My survivor has asked for help- in many of the ways they do before they find recovery- when they feel themselves spiraling towrds the bottom- the "small" ways as you put it.

This is one reason I know it is the right thing to do to ask him if he wants to come home. I want to know that he has been heard when he aksed, that he is beleived, that although he is "troubled" he is loved and respected as an individual. I want him to know that his cries for help will not go unanswred this time. I promised to do that as his wife...

It is his choice to come home or not. In fact, I am not really hell bent on him coming home, parts of me think it's not the "ultimate" idea- but the ultimate idea from my perspective is to answer the quiet wimper for help. That's the love- the control part is wanting to kill everyone who hurt him ..or is that the anger part :-D

How is it going with you?
 
I have asked for time apart, yet I am afraid of being abandoned. I am marking new territory (something Larry noticed in one of his emails to me, I believe) as I am standing up and saying that I am important enough to want more from my partner. I am so scared doing this but . . .

Over the weekend, my husband held me at one point and said, "You give me hope." I can't explain it, but it was as if I was hearing his voice come from a different place within himself, a different part of his being. I felt as if for the first time I really am giving him hope because I am refusing to relate to him as My Husband, The Victim.

Maybe I am just telling myself these things to give myself hope because as the day winds down and I face going home to two little ones who miss their father, I feel guilty and confused.

But I don't think I am imagining this. I think I am opening a new door for us.

The thing is, I think I am so good at figuring out what my husband needs that many, many times I jump ahead of him and try to figure everything out for him before he has had the chance to even ask for help. In that way, I am silencing him. That is presumptuous of me, isn't it. I protect myself from really risking anything by figuring out everything for both of us. I think that reflects my own lack of humility coupled with my own sense of being not good enough, a confusing package at times.

I can't help but ask, and you don't have to answer if it is privileged information, but you mentioned your husband being in a sealed building in Iraq. Is it safe for you to retrieve him?

I don't know if any of this is "advice." It's just my story.

Take care,

Cecilia
 
Cecilia,

You are so brave and encouraging in your posts- thank you for sharing.

However it happens, I feel like you are going to be just fine ;-D

And yes. I can get to him no prblem- is it safe? No. There is a war going on :-D

That's how much I love him. That's how important his well being is to me. That's how neglected he feels, that he hides there - his words- hideing there - because he knows people will see him as a hero- when really, he is avoiding the world- by putting his life at risk.

Maybe as we "talk" it will become clearer why I am thinking I should go get him :-D
 
I also wanted to say C- that I can totally relate to the "anticipating needs" thing - it was a requirement in my relationship with my guy- if I didn't, I was uncareing and neglectful and abusive.

And by the way- when we have to "anticipate" needs- it's great way for them to say their needs are not being met- because they can and will and do change their minds in a split second- it's a set up honey- it's part of the emotional abuse-

YOU are not silencing him. HE is CHOOSING his behavior. You are choosing yours and you see that you are acting in an unhealthy way and you are addressing it. Good for you. The only people's needs you should be anticipating are your children's- until they are no longer children.

"anticipating needs" is known as many other things- one of which is "walking on egg shells", or "unrealistic expectations".
 
Iwanttohelphim,

As a former journalist who covered wars in the Middle East, and as a professor of Middle East studies now, I want you to know that Iraq is probably the most dangerous place on earth right now, beginning as soon as your flight comes within missile range of the ground. As a Western woman dressed as such and traveling alone you will stand out like a Christmas tree, and chances are you would not even make it from the airport to Baghdad city without coming into harm's way. Gangs, local warlords and sectarian militias rule the streets in Iraq, and wherever your guy is, you will NOT be able to just go there and knock at his door. Under no circumstances should you attempt this trip.

Apart from this, I think an issue worth talking about is coming up here. A survivor needs support and validation from those he cares about, that's true enough. But the work of recovery is something only he can do; he has to WANT to do it, and he has to find the strength from within himself to start out and keep going. Your role in supporting him is important, and indeed vital, but still, your relationship with him has to adhere to certain boundaries that allow him - and oblige him - to take responsibility for the things that he ALONE can and must do.

If you become his caretaker, rather than a caregiving partner, then in a way you encourage him to rely on you and to put off the decisions and commitments that he himself has to make. Or he may feel pressured and crowded and withdraw from your support because it feels threatening rather than reassuring and validating.

There's also the problem that a healing survivor is basically a person trying to relearn the art of healthy living. If he sees that you are identifying your own genuine needs, working to meet them, and relating to other people from a position of confidence and strength, THAT will provide him with an example of what he should aim for. Seeing you do otherwise of course sets the opposite example. Not only that, it won't help him to see that your caring for him is causing you to sacrifice your own welfare and even take terrible risks. The message to him in that case will be that hanging around him just creates more victims and destroys more people's happiness.

Does this make sense? I hope it doesn't sound like I am telling you that helping him means you have to walk a tightrope and jump through hoops. But I think a basic truth here is that it is always best for a partner to relate to the survivor from a position where she has her own welfare and needs firmly in view.

Much love,
Larry
 
iwanttohelphim,

as larry said, and one who is also informed as to the status of affairs in the middle east, under no circumstances should you attempt to enter iraq - assuming you would even be allowed to - it's my understanding you probably wouldn't be able to get in anyway.

what i would suggest is you fly to maybe turkey or other reasonably safe place part of the way there and meet him so he doesn't at least have to come all the way home alone. meet him "half-way" so to speak - it empowers him to recognize he is truly asking for help but has to take the first steps on his own - and allows you to provide support and direction rather than put your own self in harm's way unnecessarily.

remember, if he really cares about you, he wouldn't want any harm to come to you on account of him.

i do hope you continue to stay in touch with this board and sound out your questions, thoughts on the best way to help him.

all the best,
indy
 
Originally posted by roadrunner:
If he sees that you are identifying your own genuine needs, working to meet them, and relating to other people from a position of confidence and strength, THAT will provide him with an example of what he should aim for. Seeing you do otherwise of course sets the opposite example.
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I could not agree more.

All that stuff about "if you don't go the extra mile then you don't care enough"... listen, when you are dealing with the hurt kid inside, there is NO SUCH THING as caring enough. You can care until it kills you and it will never be enough, because it wasn't your care that was missing.

The love and support of friends and family is a wonderful supplement to self-care, or as Larry says it can get someone thinking about where to start. But it is no substitute.

There are two sides to this business of anticipating needs...

I have done the "walking on eggshells" side of anticipating his needs, and experienced the anger/withdrawal from him when I "got it wrong"-- so I'm a smart person, why did I put up with that in the first place?

It's because sometimes anticipating his needs worked to MY benefit-- I could do what worked for me and justify it as "what he needed" by telling myself that he didn't have it in him to express his needs clearly, didn't know how to handle his feelings, was reaching out in ways that only I could see and of course I knew him so well and just wanted to do what would help him most, etc etc. I had to take a good look in the mirror about this sort of thinking. It is equally emotionally abusive and disrespectful.

If I bend over backwards to rescue him from the behaviors and attitudes that I find threatening, if I justify this by saying that I know what he feels so well that I can meet his needs when he's not really asked-- well then why should he take responsibility for clearly expressing the rest of his needs? Isn't my "going the extra mile" sending the message that he DOESN'T need to find a healthier way to share his needs with me?

Just some thoughts. Please take good care of yourself.

SAR
 
A comment of SAR's reminds me of something that might be useful by way of comparison:

Isn't my "going the extra mile" sending the message that he DOESN'T need to find a healthier way to share his needs with me?
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This reminds me of an issue that comes up in families dealing with an alcoholic - the problem of "enabling". The idea there is that if the family does not set boundaries and expectations, and insist that the recovering alcoholic abide by them, then the family is actually "enabling" the alcoholic to continue his unhealthy habits. They "enable" him to avoid the hard work he needs to do in order to recover. Yes, the work is difficult and frightening, but he still has to do it, as much for himself as for his family. If others allow him to avoid the challenge by not setting firm limits and boundaries, then they "enable" him to sidestep this hard work for another day that will never come. In this way all are harmed.

I wonder if I will get blown out of the water with this comparison. A victim of abuse is not to blame for what happened to him, for example. But on the specific issue of enabling the comparison appears to be valid to me at the moment, and perhaps the case of an alcoholic helps us to understand how harmful enabling also is in the case of a survivor of sexual abuse.

Much love,
Larry
 
First I want to say, thank you for the responses, and this is just what I need help with. All of you make very good points and I have thought about the points you made for months. I am at a place , where I don't know what the balance is - it's that delicate little place where we can step correctly or step on a land mine and I am looking for the safe patch of ground which is not control, which is not enableling, which is not demanding, which is not sacrificing my own needs but is truely in the best interest of both of us, however the "relationship" turns out. This is why I need your wisdom...to help me find that place. I want to do this right, and if it means doing it another way, or not doing it at all, I can accept that too, but if you guys could maybe help me explaore ways to have this be sucessful, I would sure appreciate it. I need help exploring the ways to get my action to match my feelings about this which are balanced and unconditional. I too need this to be able to move on.

2) I appreciate the missives about the place. Without getting into to much detail because I don't want to take the focus off of the survivor relationship part of the discussion; I have also had a long career in that part of the world, just left Iraq myself and I am aware of the situation because I have lived it...quite recently. So, I understand what I am doing in a way that only someone who has been through that place can.

Part of why I understand what he is doing with himself is because I have seen it. I see how it eats him alive and reinforces his cognitive distortions, I see how the war and the isolation are causing more damage to him. I see how easy it is for him to hide there and why he does it. It is really an unhealthy behavior.

Anyway, this is why I came to you all. I need help exploring the best way to do this- considering all of the things that have already been pointed out. How can I make the action match the motive?

HELP! Thanks guys-

And I like the idea of maybe waiting until he leaves there- why SHOULD I go through all of that BS- I certainly don't want to- there are opportunities to meet him "halfway" and I prefer that- whaddya think?
 
I wanted to add- I am giggeling now because without my background, my original post might have looked a little...weeelllll insane. I assure you that I am not insane or delusional or ultra impulsive.

I am very methodical, serious and contemplative- which is why I have waited almost a year to take any action with him. I wanted to be sure of myself, how I feel, my motives and especially to make sure that both of our needs are being considered. I wanted to be as unemotional and practical as I can be in my descision making. I will not do this if it will make things worse.

One thing I really admire about the people on this board- because I have been on others with different focuses, is that there is genuine ownership of personal "stuff" a commitment to work through personal issues coupled with a deep compassion and understanding of the survivor and his issues, as opposed to blame "he is not a partner, he is a monster, dump him" - I have seen a lot of that. It makes me ill.

I think the freinds and family (and the survivors of course)on this board are serious and thoughtful people. I think the members here are formidable and stalwart folks when it comes to doing what is humane and just and truely compassionate. I think this is a very smart and astute group. I feel that the people in this group are very strong and are bad asses :-D in their own individual ways :-D And so am I :-D One of thie things this experience has tought me is what my guy used to say to me all of the time "You are so strong". I am. And I don't mind letting him lean on that for a little while while he rests, he needs a rest because he has been holdng the weight of the world on his shoulders for almost 40 years.
 
Maybe I can clarify a little more-

There are at least two sides to everything.

My side of this, if I think exclusively about how I am affected, is that my guy was emotionally and at times physically abusive. Totally unable to be a partner. He is a Borderline Personality Disordered CSA survivor.

His side: He is a CSA survivor and is in a great deal of pain.

The truth: Is both of those things. But there is more as we all know. he is also a beautiful heart and soul trapped- he peeks out every now and then....

Where I get stuck (as many of us do)is how to respond to a totally polarized person. I know intellectually that he lacks the skills to ask for help in a clear way and to take initiative. he sincerely beleives that "this is the way it is" he sincerely does not know there is help, much less where to look for it. He is afraid.

because of all of the above, his demands are narcisistic, he is selfish and he is usually impossible to talk to (about anything, like dinner reservations) without a blow up.

He is wounded and in pain.

Who do I respond to and how? The pained little boy, or the abusive man?

If I respond to the boy, then I become a mother, a therapist...I would pick him up and hold him and never put himn down until he felt it was safe...I would whisper in his ear that I beleive him over and over again until he knew it.

If I respond to the man. i would ounch him really hard for the abuse and I would blast him for his behavior and never speak to him again.

I have not done either of those things in our relationship.

this is, as Trish put it once, a terrible tug of war.

I have seen both people and have been exposed to a third guy- the one who is his natural self- soooooooo wonderful. Dealing with a non integrated person is impossible. I have to make a descision and my descision, for right now, is to try and explore ways to meet all three of his personalities.

I have spent almost a year doing what I had to do for myself- taking care of my own needs, I went to therapy FOR MY OWN ISSUES, to make sure of what I am before I go to another and start talking about this.

What I need to do in deciding if I should meet him is to get a little more rest. A little more balanced in my own life (we all know how unbalanced it gets with a survivor), to make sure that stuff is unshakable. I am taking those steps and have been for almost a year.

I am stuck at this place and have been for some time: How do I balance out meeting the scraed little boy where he is at, without caving to the narcisistic demands of the man. HOW do I preserve my integrity while also accomplishing the following: Letting him know (gently) that there are options and they are for him to choose-he can not make choices when he does not know what his choices are. I have been where he is - exactly, as a survivor myself. And that is the part that I must do for MYSELF. It is very important for me to be able to move forward in whatever way, to be able to communicate this to him. I remember asking for help in just the ways he did and feeling so vulnerable, and people did not recognize my cries for help. I didn't get any until the damage was so bad---it set me back years. It was unnecessary. I was asking in just the way he is (and he asked over a long period of time in many ways) and there was no one.

I love him. But more importantly, I have repect for what he is dealing with because he is a person.

That's where I am stuck- finding the right action to take- how to meet the boy (his needs)and how to not enable the narcicistic demands of the borderline man (my needs).

I am not appraoching this as a mother Theresa mission. I need this too.
 
iwanttohelphim,

i admire your determination; it sounds like both of you have been thru the proverbial wringer; however, remember, to put yourself in harm's way endangers not just you and him but a host of other people who may be called in to protect and even defend both of you - you say you are familiar with what you would be doing - so can you honestly say your actions, if you went, would be the best thing all around?

as an avid naturalist, i am all too familiar w/folks who sometimes take nature for granted and in the long run endanger other people's lives (i.e., search and rescue squads, sheriff depts, helicopter pilots, etc.) because of some sort of idea they had in their own minds about proving a point.

can you even imagine the worst case scenario -being kidnapped and paraded on global tv? what would that do to a survivor's mind? even the strongest of folks break down under such circumstances.

i sincerely hope you'll find a way that can keep you both as safe as possible.

all the best,
indy
 
Thanks Indy- I wanted to stay away from the discussion about the location because it is not one that can be had here and it does not really further the main point which is how I can be supported or support my survivor. Your point is a good one and it is something I am aware in principle. Thank you-

Any suggestions about how to work through my feelings or how to accomplish this- in a totally different location (I am taking your suggestion by the way- I am NOT putting up with dirty water again for anyone :-D)
 
i think you start by deciding where you will meet. you can discuss this together which puts the idea into a plan. i can't say for sure, but it seems like if he realizes you are coming to meet him, it might cheer him up a bit and get him to start thinking about how to get himself there.

i think you might also want to try to keep yourself focused on getting to your location, that is, try and encourage him to get there too but don't do his work for him if you can avoid it - certainly he may need your assistance in a logistical sense - but remember you want him to empower himself, so the more he does to get himself out of there and to you the better, right?

considering the situation i think the mental energy going into planning this safely will keep you both focused - hopefully! and minimize negativity. of course i could be wrong :rolleyes:

i also think you might want to be aware of last minute panic attacks from both of you! donno what to say about that - maybe someone else can suggest something.

all the best,
indy
 
Thanks Indy-

Talkign about this has really helped me. And there is something else I need to add to make clear- we are not talking. We have not talked since January.

In July, I sent him an e mail with almost 1000 pages of info, and like brokenhearted, with pages from male survivor. He has not responded. I think he has blocked my e-mail address.

I think another question is, should I do this at all?

The place I get stuck here is that we parted with him feeling shame and mistrust and anger- typical-

And I was VERY angry and hurt because the abuse was turned up really high over christmas.

So that's the "he doesn't know what his options are" place.

and then there is the- I have to leave him alone to figure it out himself place-

Can anyone help me work through these feelings please?

I want to make sure I am being responsible TO my life and TO his- not responsible FOR - when I make my final descision about what to do...and I think this is part of it.

Seeing him would require the help of another person and I do not want to drag a mutual friend into the middle and I do not want to "set him up", but if he won't receieve my e mails- what can I do?

Should I call?
 
We have not talked since January
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iwanttohelphim,

this puts things in an entirely different perspective; before you can formulate any plan whatsoever, you need to re-establish communication with him and it does need to be both ways; listening and talking on both ends.

how you do that is your choice and should be based on what you know about him and your relationship, but to bypass the communications step is, well, not very wise and in this situation, maybe can be downright dangerous.

you are a smart and intelligent woman, use that talent now to re-establish communication and work together on what comes next.

all the best,
indy
 
Thanks Indy-

I wish I would have included that in the first post- I am really muddled in my head, as you can see and really do need to sort through this stuff in steps- and it's coming out in peices -

I don't know HOW to establish the communication agian...I don't know what to do. I want it to be ok for both of us and I don't know HOW....

I don't know WHAT to say...

I have all this material assembled for him- I have notes written and really beautiful letters- but I can't MAKE him read them- I can't MAKE him talk on the phone- I just don't know....which is why I thought ...maybe I could send an e mail from a different address, or a letter through a mutual friend- and ask for a meeting?

I don't know how to do this...especually considering he has no idea what I am going to say and is going to be very leary of me. Sigh.

Maybe if it is this heard..I need to stop thinking about it and realize that there will never be closure for me....I don't know...
 
--------------------------------------------------

My survivor has asked for help- in many of the ways they do before they find recovery- when they feel themselves spiraling towrds the bottom- the "small" ways as you put it.


~ IWantToHelpHim
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Can ya'll give me examples of the small ways?? I've only realized the abuse since Christmas 2005... he is in total denial and I have no solid proof... only STRONG circumstantial evidence and a gut feeling... I come from a 2 parent household with emotional and physical abuse buty no SA... so I don't know how to deal with it... and I don't know what ways I can tell if he's reaching out... he's so genuine when he denies this... could he have repressed? I'm so lost... I want to help him... I love him so much... and even if our relationship doesn't make it through this, if I can feel inside that I helped, even in the least... I don't know what it will do...but I know I have to help him through this... he is such a beautiful person... without this trauma in his childhood, I can't even imagine how much light he would have shown on the world... he still does shine brightly but it's hard to see unless you look deeply inside because the surface is so hard to break through... he doesn't let anyone see his true being except me... he's very cold to most people... he won't let anyone see weakness...

Please help... I don't know if he has reached out to me... how can I tell???
 
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