Abused Again

[Rich1967]

Hey guys, it's been a while since I have posted. It was a busy month of December and I have been doing a lot of local work here in my home town with a men's group related to a men's weekend I posted about earlier. It's been pretty cool and I've made a few new friends. It can still be very triggering for me to be in a group meeting with a bunch of other men with some that I do not know well at all.

One of the men I have become friends with is a guy I didn't know at all before meeting him at group and we've been friends now for 3 months. During one conversation early on we discovered that we were both friends to a well known man in our community. My friend commented that he thought it was interesting and that I reminded him of this common friend in some ways. He also said this person and one other guy were his closest friends and had both died within a year of each other and those losses were hard on him.

Just recently we agreed to reminisce about the good times we each had with this common friend. Somehow this came up in one of my T sessions and I related a story to my T about the common friend that made him cringe. This was information I have had for decades and didn't see as abusive till this moment. My T has heard from various people and says there is a lot of "smoke" surrounding this common friend that may indicate he was an abuser. My story clearly indicted as much but I couldn't see it for all these years.

I got back to my new friend and asked him about his experiences with our common friend. Many discussions later and it's pretty clear we were both sexually abused by this man. He grabbed our genitals and he used a lot of manipulation to get us to be friends completely on the levels he wanted and it was all about him. Somehow he made us feel like everything was our fault if things in the friendship weren't going well. He surrounded the boundary crossing with a lot of good things he did on either side of it. I still wonder if he was even fully conscious about all the hurtful things he did to get his emotional needs met or if it was purely instinctual. Either way it hurt me and my new friend. I have talked to others since and they have confirmed the manipulative behaviors. He was like this till the day he died.

I am glad he is gone.

I have been very triggered for most of last week. Spent all day Thursday paralyzed with anxiety in bed. I just couldn't move and felt so unsafe. Never had felt so afraid as I was this time. I am doing better but still shaky. Meeting with my T again this week after two meetings last week.

I didn't think suicide this time but I did want to run away from everyone and everything. For me that's a fate worst than death. I don't ever want to feel as alone as I had come to feel before working on my recovery these last four years. I need the loving and supportive men I have in my life and this incident has made me be afraid of them.

I always knew I was ripe to be abused again after my stepfather but thought I was blessed to not have been... how many other times do I not remember?

 

[dark empathy]

@Rich, I'm sorry to hear this, though I can't say I'm overly surprised. There are always those who prey on vulnerable people, indeed I met a girl in 2009 and I'm only just recognizing the damage she did me, and lets not get into what happened to L, which she is only just recognizing.

However there is no way this is your fault anymore than other things were your fault. As to trusting men, while I understand your feelings I see this another way.
You and this friend you were sharing memories with of your co abuser shared some vulnerabilities, disclosing is a difficult thing, even coming close to it, and it sounds like you and this friend became closer as a result.

That doesn't strike me as the sort of behaviour of someone who is still having trouble trusting men? Neither does coming on a website and telling a bunch of other men all about this.
I can understand your shock and your shame and negative reactions, but equally your not giving yourself enough credit for what you have! achieved.

 

[Older1]

Your posts suggest that you are a very discerning, persevering, human and intelligent man. You now look back on past events through a different lens, a new perspective and you draw new conclusions. Perhaps it is more important to note that you actually suffered little at that time. I am certain you will work through this new interpretation of your memory just as you have done so with other past memories.
You story has been a blessing to read; illuminating, instructive, guiding, reassuring and comforting. Carry on.

 

[tommyb]

(rich1967)

 

[sorryson]

Rich1967 I am sorry you are going through this again. Please take care of yourself. It seems many who were abused once were victims again. I only had one abuser and it hurts me, I cannot imagine a second. It has to be very triggering and traumatic.

Please take care of yourself.

Paul

 

[traveler]

Rich

I think the best thing I can say to you right now is, Me too.

I know how devastating it is to think that you have a handle on the CSA of the past and then make a new discovery. To have one of those surprises sprung on you can really be a setback.

When I was in my 30s, the first awareness of the abuse in my childhood suddenly emerged during a period of depression. I went into therapy and after a couple of years I thought I had dealt with the issues that that been bothering me and I had previously not even known why.

Years passed. Triggered by a seminar on child abuse awareness, prevention, and intervention, I got depressed again. While I was spiraling down, more memories emerged that made me feel violated and traumatized all over again.

I went to a T again for help. It turned out that there was more lurking under the surface that needed to come out. It was hard and painful and demanding work, but I got through it a second time.

It doesnt necessarily get any easier with time and experience and past knowledge. But the second time, I had a couple of things going for me. first, I had MS to lean on and all the resources, support and encouragement of the members especially those who could say Ive been through that and I survived. And second the assurance that since I had made it the first time and ended up in a better state, it was a pretty sure thing that I could do it again. I was also able to draw upon the things I had learned the first time to help me continue to fight the fight and overcome.

At this point in my life, I still have a couple of impressions or partial memories that may or may not ever be completed. I have reached a place where I really dont care if I ever know more about them or not. I figure that whatever damage they could do has already been done. I will not be a different person than I am today because of learning of more abuse.

I guess the bottom line for me is this if you have survived so far, you can do it again.

I have seen the progress you have made, Rich. You have been an example and inspiration and encouragement to many. That is not lost or made void by this new revelation. It is proof of your resiliency and ability to endure and triumph. No matter how bad you feel now, remember how you felt when you were emerging from the darkness last time. You can get to that place again.

believing in you,
Lee

 

[Rich1967]

Thanks guys! I needed to hear everything you said and the support. Our thinking can be that we are weak to need help but in reality I think it means we are strong.

@DE - Thanks and yes I still tend to not think very highly of myself. Thank you for pointing out some positives. You are starting to sound like me in your posts - hope that makes you smile some I was certainly close with my friend and that was good. He wasn't quite ready to see the light on this one so as for being closer... verdict is still out but we are definitely still friends. Hanging out with him tomorrow to watch "The Expanse" together He's also seeing the light more and more each day as memories come back.

@Older1 - thanks for the kind words. I put myself out there because it does seem to help others. It's pretty rewarding to use my abuse experiences and recovery as tools now to help others. I definitely wouldn't change a thing.

@tommyb - I love hugs! A lot of bad touch in my past or people that never touched me or wanted to be near me so hugs now are extra awesome. Thanks.

@sorryson - thanks for the kind words.

@traveler - you are awesome as always. Very thankful for each of your kind words. Yes, I will make it again and I have a lot better tool set this time around.

I am doing better guys. I even went to my men's support group tonight and spoke about it. The guys there were great. Felt hugely supported. We've been talking about ways they could help me if and when I may be triggered while at a meeting. It's very hard for me to ask for help but I will take it if offered and they offered this evening by putting their hands "full of love" on me as I stood surrounded by them. Very powerful. That would definitely have potential for bring me back after being triggered.

I had lost my ability to feel safe with others and I am feeling it again this evening.

 

[KMCINVA]

Rich

I am sorry I did not respond sooner. Some challenges here. I am so sorry for what you are experiencing. I can relate. Recently there was a report from my hometown of a former scoutmaster who is accused of abusing 17 boys and 2 girls. They are suing the Boys Scouts of America. I received a call about it and was not surprised when told. I knew this man, he lived in the the neighborhood. I was in his home alone a few times. My mind is struggling to think and it maybe playing tricks on me. Was I somehow handpicked once again. I keep thinking when told his name I was not surprised and his image appeared in my head. I had not seen this man in close to 45 years. The picture in the paper looked liked the image I had of him before I saw the paper. The story somehow controls me. Not sure why. It has triggered so much of the abuse with the priest.

It is a terrible feeling. For you, even more difficult because you remember. I am so sorry you have been going through such a tough time. I know each time is different and the past does not always pave the road to resolving current revelations. Take care you yourself.

Best wishes,

Kevin

 

[Rich1967]

Thanks Kevin.

Starting to feel more like myself again but putting myself out there is harder and I feel more terrified about doing it afterwards. I guess that's to be expected after the recent realizations.

I do know that I completely looked up to this guy and wanted to be just like him. He was so confident and social. He could see that I wasn't and he knew I looked up to him. All he had to do was to want me to be his friend and he had me. It was more emotionally abusive than physically and a completely different experience from what I had with my stepfather. Fortunately, I did not let the physical stuff progress past the one time he grabbed me. I think that's why he "dumped" me in the end a couple years later. All the people I spoke to about him, that confirmed the same kind of emotional manipulation, all were people that had similar baggage to me and would have been a good target.

They say most abusers were abused but most abused don't go on to become abusers. I think we see ourselves in others. I've realized that the people I end up becoming friends with now are the ones that are really struggling with some of the same demons that I struggle with. I've had two friends now discover that they too were abused. One started having flashbacks and now this one.

It's one thing to support male survivors but to become such good friends with someone and then it comes out is just too painful. I don't want that to happen anymore. Almost makes self isolating look good again

 

[JW1230]

((Rich))

I haven't logged in in almost a month, so I am seeing your post for the first time. I am glad that you are beginning to feel more like yourself again, but give yourself some time. Be kind to yourself as you navigate through this latest revelation. It sucks that this too happened to you and that you have to have a lot of the emotional shit resurfacing along with it, but I know you to be a strong man and you will get through this. You are on solid ground through all the time and hard work you have put into your healing. Even if it doesn't feel like it right now, rest assured that you are! Sending love your way friend

John

 

[Rich1967]

Thanks John! Good advice and reminders.

I had a pretty rough weekend related to all this stuff. I think I'm finally realizing that while the sexual abuse was bad it wasn't as bad as the "passive abuse" from my father that set me up to be a target. That wound is WAY deeper than the sexual abuse. My stepfather was able to abuse me because I needed guidance from other men...there was no love involved because I hated him before and after the abuse. Never dawned on me that an adult would harm me (unless he was drunk and he wasn't). This new abuser I posted about here was all about being loved and accepted - he wanted ME to be his roommate (so I left my current roommate hurting his feelings); he wanted to spend time with ME. He knew what to feed and I followed.

I'm finally seeing that the wound my father gave me by not being emotionally present ever with me among other things is huge. I've always thought this but was not sure and ashamed of it too at the same time. This wound happened before age 5 and has plagued me ever since Fathers and men are immensely important in each others lives. Me not having that has really messed me up. The sexual abuse has made it all that much harder to have men in my life, but it's just an obstacle to healing the bigger wound caused by my father.

Check this out if you have time. It's pretty amazing. Oscar is the one that made me finally see it and realize that it's a valid wound and I don't have to be ashamed of it. https://vimeo.com/122286425

This is similar to my mens group. Mens groups like this are amazing and while is scares me to death to go sometimes it has made a huge impact in my life already.

 

[BFree27]

Hey Rich,

I'm seeing this post for the first time and honestly I'm glad I am. I'm having a very similar experience at the moment.

Basically, because I work in a shelter for homeless/runaway youth we end up putting out all of these zines about "Learning Good Consent" and "Accounting for Ourselves", really good subjects for kids in middle/high school to be learning so that they can avoid any type of SA or boundary-crossing in general. Well, about 2 days ago I read the one about consent and what it means to the general public. And as I was reading, I started analyzing all of the relationships I had in the past, because up to this point I figured I did really well avoiding abuse besides my stepdad.

Turns out as I was extremely wrong. Even before my stepdad, I was abused by a cousin. I have been abused many times and didn't recognize any of the warning signs because I was always on red alert, from my stepdad's daily advances, from earlier traumas.. I don't know how long I've had PTSD. There were just too many things to keep track of, to protect myself from, and I let things slip. And honestly, I don't know how many times I've been used anymore.

Every time I think about it I sink deeper into a state of disgust and shame. I mean sure, I couldn't control my cousin. I couldn't control my stepdad, and I sure as hell couldn't control whoever committed the first act at age 5. But how could I not have seen what my partners were doing? My "friends"? How can I say I didn't have any control in that?

I mean seriously. It was such a normal thing in my group of friends in high school that every lunch they would play the "who can make him blush first" game. They stuck their hands down my pants, up my shirt, groped my ass, anything they could do within a 10 second time frame because all of this literally happened in the cafeteria in front of everyone and they knew it would embarrass me. I think we were only reprimanded once, ever? And they started up again right after the teacher walked away so nothing came of it. If I recall I actually told my parents about what was going on and they acted like I should like it because it was a bunch of girls doing this to me... So maybe I actually did know this was abuse and just blocked it out along with everything else.

Then there was my boyfriend at the time, the one that my stepdad was extremely jealous of. He made both of our lives a living hell so I just always put my ex on a sort of pedestal for being able to deal with all of that bullshit. Now I think back on all of our sexual interactions and it's dawning on me that maybe he wasn't a good person after all; emotionally he was my rock through most of it, though he did make me feel really bad for experimenting with weed. But he was also the type that took silence as consent, who would continue sex even if I said I didn't want to just because I opened with a yes, and sometimes just wouldn't listen to the original "I don't want this". Many of those times were him penetrating me in the corner of the cafeteria while the above mentioned group watched. I honestly still can't believe he got away with that... Again I think I blocked this out.

Then I went on to date one of the girls I knew from high school, for maybe a month. This one I knew was abusive while it was happening, and did what I had to do to get away, so I don't feel so bad. But I wasn't aware she was sexually abusing me as well as emotionally destroying me. Every week was a rollercoaster; most days would start out sunshine and rainbows, and everything would be perfect until something always "forced her to explode". Then all hell would break loose and I'd spend the rest of my day trying to figure out what I did and how to make it better because it was "always my fault". She'd follow me around the house screaming at me about how emotionally abusive I was to her, and everyone knows how much of a jackass I am so why don't I just admit it already, no one wants me around so I might as well disappear, basically all of the things I knew she thought about herself. If I didn't respond to the first round, she'd threaten suicide. Then there was the shit-talking to her friends, my gods the shit-talking. All about "how abusive he actually is" and "if you could only see the way he speaks to me when we're alone..". Finally I had enough and I left, packed up all of my shit and moved out in one day while she was gone for the night.

I've never seen myself as a victim before. This is kinda the first time and I really hate it... I honestly think I'd rather accept blame that isn't mine than be seen this way.

 

[Rich1967]

BFree27 sorry it's painful. I totally get the "power" of taking the blame for it all. It means you have the power to keep it from happening again. I get it but I don't recommend it as a very healthy course of action. I have yet to see someone say it's been successful long term for them

I have always told my friends when they are struggling that I don't think life was meant to be painless. It usually is a good sign because it means you are growing and healing. For me it meant that I was finally feeling again and for all the bad times I knew I would get to have some equally good one too.

Stay strong and I hope you are feeling better soon.

 

[KMCINVA]

BFree27

I understand how you feel. You have endured much pain in your life. Your words you never felt like a victim before resonated in me. I wrote this morning how I felt like a victim in another post relating to my sense of despair and hopelessness. Feeling and being made to feel like a victim is so debilitating, for me it made me feel useless, hopeless, not worthy to live. It consumed and the more I focused on it and heard the attacks and half truths being told about me by those who made me feel like a victim, the deeper I sank and almost submerged without air.

Try not to dwell on being the victim, because I finally have learned if I allow others to make me the victim I am the victim. You are not a victim, you are a survivor and do much good for others who are suffering. Focus on how good you are and remember the feelings the abuse left you with were not of your doing--

Remember we have to survive to show those that abused and inflicted this pain we are better than they and we can live and survive. I feel so strongly, I just came out of a major funk that was self destructive, I had those feelings and only through the grace of friends, supporters and a doctor did I make it through. I want to feel good, not like someone's victim. There are certain phrases that irk me now and when I overhear someone say them I cringe--because they are so controlling--I am telling you(meaning they are not listening to you nor are they open to talk)this is the way it is, or I know (when they do not know, for example I heard that from many about CSA and the impacts of CSA--they do not have a clue and use it to make the survivor feel inferior). Please do not listen to the negative and controlling words of others--you are giving so much to the young people in work, now give to yourself-you deserve it.

Kevin

 

[BFree27]

Thank you. I need to hear these words, as uncomfortable as it makes me to hear them. I'm getting to a point where when I'm by myself I'm afraid, and it hasn't been like this in years.

I'm clinging to every interaction I have, either negative or positive, because at least I'm present when I'm having the moments right?

I've finally figured out how to describe how dissociation feels to me, because it's been nearly a constant phasing back and forth for the past week. It's like when it happens, I get locked into one of those glass balls from the Labyrinth, the ones that Bowie had? and I can't feel anything or really react to anything, but I can watch myself react the way that I should. Like the real me is in that glass ball and a doll is now in the real world taking over for my body. I tell the doll what to do on occasion so that people don't know the difference, but sometimes I wish people did know when I was trapped. It's a very strange concept but it's the only one I can find that actually works. I'd have to say there's been a few times that I didn't even know I was in the glass ball, and that's the scariest thing.

I wish I could talk like this with the people in my life. They just don't listen. Only my husband, and him very minimally when it comes to actual important details like this. I'm starting to think he's a survivor in denial.

 

[Rich1967]

BFree27,

I relate so much to some of the things you described. I hate not being able to feel anything and then to not even know I'm in that state... Those are the scariest times for me too. Mostly now I am just triggered a lot which is usually a feeling of just fear or a feeling of being unsafe and especially with the people the I normally feel safe with and that I love. That one sucks too I'm still feeling something but it's not a good feeling.

I also relate to your husband and others not getting it. My wife just doesn't get it and is totally threatened by me even just talking about this stuff. She's still worried that I will leave her for another man. That's what I thought I wanted and made the mistake of telling her about that confusion when I first started my recovery work. Should never have shared that with her. I am so clear now about what kind of relationships I want with other men - close, loving and supportive ones and sex is not part of that for me anymore.

I used to think no one would get it but that has changed. Took some time. I have only tried to get one woman to understand, my wife, and that has been somewhat successful for some parts of it. I have quite a few guy friends in my life now that all seem to get it whether or not they were abused. That has been pretty amazing for me. I can be me and talk about any of this stuff with them and they are not threatened by it. It's been a real blessing in my life. I hope you can find that too. It all started here at MS for me and that gave me the courage to do it in my physical world.

Keep doing the work and you will get there.

 

[dark empathy]

Hi rich.

I'm really sorry to hear about your wife, sinse frankly my lady has done more than understand. I've told several friends of both genders, but with my lady things are different, I can be casual, mention triggers and associations, talk about how I feel and she is just there for me, not judging, not scared, though occasionally angry at my abusers.

Of course this is two way, indeed when I say I'm worried she's taking on too much she points out (quite righttly), that she has also talked to me about her own bad passed relationships.

I can't speak about love making, sinse love making in and of itself as a separate thing from what we feel for each other and the way we communicate, physically, verbally, spiritually, just doesn't happen with us, neither do I even think I would want it that way.

This is just to say that I'm really sorry to hear about the relationship with your wife, and it's sad you can't experience that level of acceptance with her sinse to me it's been something very healing.