Abuse without physical force
Abuse without physical force
- Thread starterHowardCosell1990
- Start date
This is another old post that I can certainly relate to. One of the things hardest for me to let go of is the guilt over the lack of force used in my rape as an adult, and bringing myself to admit that I've been assaulted two other times as an adult. For the longest time I couldn't acknowledge that rape doesn't require force, and that arousal is a reaction we can't control.
***************************************Triggers***************************************************
The first time I did something I didn't want to do without being physically forced was when I was 16 or 17 in an adult bookstore. I was there to act out..specifically I was there to do what I always did...give oral sex to older men. One night a man in his 70's invited me into a booth. Normally I would sit in the seat and my "partner" would stand. He pulled his pants down, sat on the seat and asked me to kneel. As I was giving him oral sex another man came in and pulled my pants down and knelt behind me. I told him I didn't do anal sex. He told me to relax. I told him no several times. They both told me to relax. There was no real force, just me repeating "no" and "stop".
When I was raped in college I was drugged. It took many EMDR sessions to recall most of the detail, and even then "the audio" is missing...just the "video" exists. If someone watched my recollections they'd think it was an all night consensual encounter between a man in his 60's and a 20 year old college student. What the observer wouldn't know is that I have no recollection of leaving a NYC commuter bar with my assailant, of the cab ride to his apartment, of or undressing. I do remember twice...once while he was giving me oral sex, once before anal sex the first time...telling him no. The only thing I really "resisted", and I remember vividly seeing it unfold in the mirrored wall against his bed, was pushing his hands away from my penis and begging him not to make me have an orgasm one of the times he was sodomizing me and him laughing about it.
The last time was with a transexual escort who did BDSM. We agreed on her restraining me, the ways she would hurt me, and on rough oral and anal sex if she wanted to...with a condom for anal sex...and a safe word. She honored the safe word several times when the pain was too intense. When she began anal sex, with a condom, I used the safe word and told her she was too large it wouldn't work, plus I could see her condom broke. She basically told me it was too late to stop...and my erection meant I liked it. When she finished she acted as if nothing had happened, even asking me to post a review on an escort website.
***************************************Triggers***************************************************
The first time I did something I didn't want to do without being physically forced was when I was 16 or 17 in an adult bookstore. I was there to act out..specifically I was there to do what I always did...give oral sex to older men. One night a man in his 70's invited me into a booth. Normally I would sit in the seat and my "partner" would stand. He pulled his pants down, sat on the seat and asked me to kneel. As I was giving him oral sex another man came in and pulled my pants down and knelt behind me. I told him I didn't do anal sex. He told me to relax. I told him no several times. They both told me to relax. There was no real force, just me repeating "no" and "stop".
When I was raped in college I was drugged. It took many EMDR sessions to recall most of the detail, and even then "the audio" is missing...just the "video" exists. If someone watched my recollections they'd think it was an all night consensual encounter between a man in his 60's and a 20 year old college student. What the observer wouldn't know is that I have no recollection of leaving a NYC commuter bar with my assailant, of the cab ride to his apartment, of or undressing. I do remember twice...once while he was giving me oral sex, once before anal sex the first time...telling him no. The only thing I really "resisted", and I remember vividly seeing it unfold in the mirrored wall against his bed, was pushing his hands away from my penis and begging him not to make me have an orgasm one of the times he was sodomizing me and him laughing about it.
The last time was with a transexual escort who did BDSM. We agreed on her restraining me, the ways she would hurt me, and on rough oral and anal sex if she wanted to...with a condom for anal sex...and a safe word. She honored the safe word several times when the pain was too intense. When she began anal sex, with a condom, I used the safe word and told her she was too large it wouldn't work, plus I could see her condom broke. She basically told me it was too late to stop...and my erection meant I liked it. When she finished she acted as if nothing had happened, even asking me to post a review on an escort website.
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Reflecting
Registrant
John67, I experienced a similar situation to you when I was assaulted at 18 after a late night of drinking. I did not resist much physically, not that I was in a position to do much anyway. I also have flashes of memories, mostly visual, of both my assault and of my childhood abuse, with many missing "pieces".
I'm finding it difficult to accept what happened to me on an emotional level. Intellectually, I know that I was in no position to resist due being impaired from alcohol/possibly drink spiking. I also know very clearly that that arousal during sexual abuse or assault is a strictly physiological reaction, and does not equal enjoying or consenting to it whatsoever. However, emotionally, "in my heart" so to speak, I still feel a lot of shame about my response during my childhood abuse and adult assault.
I'm trying to process my memories as logically as I can when I experience them and reassure myself that I was not to blame, but with limited success. I haven't tried EMDR or other modalities like Brainspotting. It's difficult to find a trauma specialist with those type of qualifications here in Australia unfortunately, but I want to be able to start making more progress.
************************ WARNING, VERY STRONG TRIGGER WARNING!!! ****************************
I remember bits and pieces of my assault, but some extra details/sensations are starting to come back. One visual memory is my perpetrator on top of me, pausing whilst inside me, looking at my erection, asking me something and then laughing at my response. I don't know what I said and part of me wants to know why, even though it doesn't justify anything he did to me.
Another memory is complying with his command to hold my knees to my chest, so he could penetrate me more easily. I feel especially guilty about doing this, as I didn't put up some token physical or verbal resistance, but just obeyed. When he entered me, I became aroused despite being in pain. After a while, he told me how he liked this position, as he could more easily get me off with his penis and hands, and that it was more "intimate this way". He constantly kept touching me, or adjusting himself whilst he was penetrating me, to keep me aroused throughout this. I think I asked him to stop at one point but I'm not entirely sure, I blacked out a few times.
************************** END TRIGGER WARNING*************************************************
Emotionally, I feel guilt and shame that my body's reactions "encouraged" my perp to keep going, even though I was in pain throughout. Logically, I know that I had no say in the matter regarding and that I was unable to consent to anything during my assault.
Reflecting...I didn't want to quote what you posted under a trigger warning...but I can very much relate.
************************************** Triggers *****************************************************************
The night I was drugged I still have no memory of anything he said. Every time I remember him penetrating me...at least three times, I remember watching in the mirrors around his bedroom. The first time he pulled me to the edge of the bed and pushed my knees up to my chest. I have never felt more vulnerable than that...because I knew what he was going to do...and he made we watch in the mirror as I got aroused. The second time he lifted my hips and pushed my chest onto the bed. He made me spread myself open for him...and again I had to watch myself get aroused in the mirror. The third time I was coming out of the drug/alcohol fog. He was asleep and I got up to leave. I had to use the bathroom. He woke up. He sat on the edge of the bed, I knelt on the floor.
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Reflecting
Registrant
I'm so sorry for what you went through, John67.
In trying to better understand what happened to me, I've done some research into both physiological reactions (fight-flight-freeze-submit) & psychological/emotional responses to threatening situations, and on how predators can be charming and use a range of psychologically manipulative tricks to get what they want from their victims, even afterwards. I recall reading about how some muggers like talking to their victims about random things whilst holding them up, as it distracted them and made it seem like "less" of an robbery. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that some sadistic murderers & rapists deliberately do their best to stop their victim from dissociating during their attacks, so they can focus on what's happening to them.
My perp was cheerful both during & after my assault: he did not behave in a way that people would expect a rapist to. I'm starting to realize that his behaviour is one of the reasons why I feel some guilt & confusion over my part on an emotional level, even though rationally, I know I was not responsible. He wanted me to feel mixed up & to sow the seeds of doubt. Maybe to feed his fantasies, or to stop me from reporting what happened, or both.
*********************** TRIGGERS *****************************************
My perpetrator was constantly smiling and looking at my face & body whilst he was between my legs. Once it was all over, he was jovial & hugging me as I was getting ready to leave. He complimented me on my body, talked about the orgasms both he & I had, and told me to remember "how fun our night was" afterwards. He made it seem like we were both willing participants in what just happened.
************************** END TRIGGERS **************************
In trying to better understand what happened to me, I've done some research into both physiological reactions (fight-flight-freeze-submit) & psychological/emotional responses to threatening situations, and on how predators can be charming and use a range of psychologically manipulative tricks to get what they want from their victims, even afterwards. I recall reading about how some muggers like talking to their victims about random things whilst holding them up, as it distracted them and made it seem like "less" of an robbery. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that some sadistic murderers & rapists deliberately do their best to stop their victim from dissociating during their attacks, so they can focus on what's happening to them.
My perp was cheerful both during & after my assault: he did not behave in a way that people would expect a rapist to. I'm starting to realize that his behaviour is one of the reasons why I feel some guilt & confusion over my part on an emotional level, even though rationally, I know I was not responsible. He wanted me to feel mixed up & to sow the seeds of doubt. Maybe to feed his fantasies, or to stop me from reporting what happened, or both.
*********************** TRIGGERS *****************************************
My perpetrator was constantly smiling and looking at my face & body whilst he was between my legs. Once it was all over, he was jovial & hugging me as I was getting ready to leave. He complimented me on my body, talked about the orgasms both he & I had, and told me to remember "how fun our night was" afterwards. He made it seem like we were both willing participants in what just happened.
************************** END TRIGGERS **************************
TMel
Registrant
Let me break this down in some legal terms:
Assault is generally defined as intentionally putting another person in reasonable apprehension of an imminent harmful or offensive contact. Physical injury or contact is not required.
Battery is defined as touching or applying force on other persons or things related to the person without his consent with the intention to harm.
A more recently recognized crime is Rape by deception: is a situation in which the perpetrator obtains the victim's agreement to engage in sexual intercourse or other sex acts, but gains it by deception such as false statements or actions.
Assault is generally defined as intentionally putting another person in reasonable apprehension of an imminent harmful or offensive contact. Physical injury or contact is not required.
Battery is defined as touching or applying force on other persons or things related to the person without his consent with the intention to harm.
A more recently recognized crime is Rape by deception: is a situation in which the perpetrator obtains the victim's agreement to engage in sexual intercourse or other sex acts, but gains it by deception such as false statements or actions.
pedropedro
Registrant
So if a spouse pressures a spouse about their "needs" so much that the other spouse just submits I get how that is considered abusive, but is it rape? If so I have at least two friends who were "raped" by their girlfriends repeatedly, and my mother was raping my father for years. What about I'm getting you this if... or you can do this until.... you have sex with me? Or consent to say heavy petting or mutual masturbation but not beyond that? Consent for some acts but reluctantly "allowing" another act? If that I wonder if a majority of people have been sexually abused, and how many have abused. I once had intercourse with a woman and asked for felatio but she didn't want to. I said, please, it's not that bad. I noticed she still really didn't want to so I accepted it. Was I sexually abusing her since I asked her once more after the first no, but respected the second? Had she reluctantly given oral sex to me after I asked several times would that make me an abuser? I asked if she wanted to give me a bjowjob and she said no. I just said, come on, please, I really would like that. She said no, and I dropped it, we talked for a while, and she left. Was I abusive or would I just have become abusive if I didn't stop until she felt scared to say no anymore or something? I always hear about how most straight people (especially men) not wanting to perform oral sex, and that being selfish. I think it's fine to ask if you respect a no, even two nos. If I ask someone for money and they say that don't have it, and I asked them to check or if they could give me $5 instead of $10, and they say no, and I give up, is that pandhandling, or would I have to get really confrontational and bullying them? Just wonder if there's a difference between asking or convincing with coercing and manipulating and basically pseudo-rape. It would greatly affect who is a rapist, who is a victim, and who is both.
SetecAstronomy
Registrant
Yes. When he touched me and I got an erection, he said that proved I was gay and he would out me if I didn’t go along. At 13 years old, in the 80s and in the Deep South, that was terrifying.
Cruzzah
Registrant
While all of my posts prior to this have been regarding emotional incest by a female, your story relates to something that happened to me in my 20s. I met a guy at a gay bar and he invited me to party. The party turned out to be an orgy with porn videos. I was told I had to strip to watch the videos. I, like you was naive at the time. Wile laying on the bed watching the videos, a big guy got on top me and penetrated me. I finally got him off of me and left. A day or so later I began experiencing rectal pain and bleeding. I was diagnosed with a tear in my colon. Yes, I would have to call this rape.
I was 25 when I experienced this and he was 40. Was my first “consensual“ sex after coming out. Meet him online and we talked on the phone for a while and decided to meet for dinner and stuff. First man i ever kissed and as things happened i wanted to stop but it kept happening. I know ii shut my mind off and just went with things. I had rented a hotel room and he asked to stay afterwards and i said no. He knew i was just coming out. I litterely end up on the floor crying in a feast position after he left and i was blaming myself. No one such as family or friends know this as i think they would thing what is wrong with me i was a “man”. Like i am making a bigger deal out of it than it was. I did speak to my T back then and even my T now about it as it still sticks with me 24 years later.
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Silverhand
Registrant
Yeah, after resisting a more forceful attempt, she said my violent actions made her want to hurt herself and stop living, so on her second attempt
I froze up because I was afraid of what she might do to herself if I resisted again.
I froze up because I was afraid of what she might do to herself if I resisted again.
Matt78
Registrant
I had a girlfriend that used those sorts of tactics. Either berating me or threatening herself.
Lone Wolf,
This resonates with me too. The first two times I was 8 with my 14 year old abuser, he spent an hour each time pumping me. I don’t know if I was penetrated then but by the time he got done with me, we both knew I had been f—-ed. I could hardly walk after that. From the 4th time onward, I have repressed the last 7 months of abuse but assume he eventually found the mark as he was very persistent. I’m trying to get those memories back to know what happened but no luck so far. I am now 65 but just realized last year that I do not remember the last 7 months of the abuse…
Same here, once by coercion and once by alcohol. I struggled a lot in the early days with wondering if it would genuinely be considered rape--actually chose not to go through the Title IX investigation for the first one because I had said yes, though I felt as though there was no other option--but I had a lot of support from another male survivor friend, and that helped a lot.
The Bluefoot
Registrant
Did he spank you often, and why did he spank you.
Matt78
Registrant
It's been years since the last incident with the man that was abusing me, but I still occasionally see him out in public. And it feels like he still has control over me. So it's not just you.
So many of us got stuck with that not having our control and were left vulnerable to anyone who could pick up on it, whether it be the same perp or someone new. A lot of us wondered if we had a sign on us saying, "abuse me" when it happened more than once by different perps . I was left not trusting any adult man after my abuse ended at 12. I sadly remember rationalizing when alone with the Pastor of the church I attended & worked at doing repairs and such at 15-16, that if he made a move that I would have to acquiesce... My own father too was suspect as a potential abuser. Even into adulthood I knew that if my abuser uncle came around that I'd be vulnerable too. Thankfully, they nor any other guys made an attempt. Had they, I would've fallen prey to them due to that stolen control & power to say no or fight.
As you work through it and heal you will be able to take that control back and stand up for yourself. You made a huge step in that direction by joining us here at MS.
Matt78
Registrant
I appreciate that, thank you. I was abused multiple times by multiple people, and it helps to know that isn't unique. I'm sorry though for the reason you could pass on that knowledge. You're very brave
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