Abuse, Innapropriate, or what? (possible trigger)

[learning2remember]

Help sort out some thoughts and feelings.

I think I was about 8 when I started masturbating, I just did not know what it was then. I did not know anything about sex, and I thought the penis was just for going to the bathroom.

But when I was laying on my stomach watching t.v., I learned that if I thrust my pelvis into the floor it felt pretty good. I kept doing it and suddenly it felt even better for a second--what a rush? Please remember I did not know anything aout erections or orgasm or masturbation. I just thought this was a neat feeling.

So I did it a lot. Maybe every afternoon when watching t.v. Sometimes I noticed later that my underwear was wet, but I thought I was just sweaty, because even my face would sweat sometimes when I did it.

It was years and years before I realized that was masturbation. Somehow, when I became consciuos of masturbation, I was doing it a different way and I did not connect the two.

Then, as an adult I remembered that early habit, and I wondered if anybody else had noticed. Not knowing what it was or that it was a private thing, I had never worried about who was around.

Well, the other day I was talking to my older brother, who by the way is also my main perpetrator but he doesn't remember it.

We were having a good talk, all things considered, and pondering how little sex ed. we got growing up. He shared some early exploration, so I said, "Do you remember how I used to shake on the floor?" That's what I called it then.

His answer, "No, but it looks like I'm the only one who doesn't. You know what Dad said about it--well, he never did it when company was around so I didn't do anything."

This hurts adn it is hard and confusing for me, so please tell me if I am making a big deal out of nothing.

Apparently, my two brothers and my father have been talking about me lately, and I feel pretty betrayed.

My main memories of abuse are of things my older brohter did to me. I was in counseling for a while before I ever mentioned them to family, starting with my twin. He said it was bizarr because he didn't remember any of it.

He had some of the same memories of Mom (my other perp), but didn't think they were a big deal.

After some time, I finally confronted my big brother, letting him know I'd also talked to twin.

I guess I knew they would talk, and I don't particularly mind, but it was out of respect for my big brother that I did not talk to Dad. Now I know that not only have they spoken to him, but they did it without ever any of them ever telling me.

I also found out that Dad's theory (he was a counselor for years) is that because I am going through a lot of transition right now I have created a crisis to keep from moving on.
F**K HIM!!!
He never even spoke to me about these things. This professional counselor has come up with a thoery that puts lets my older brother of the hook without ever asking me a single question. NOT ONE!!!
After asking my brothers, that they and Dad have been talking and e-mailing--this while they did NOT reply to my e-mails.
I have tried so hard to communicate, but strong, speak up, self disclose and it was frustrating when I got no reply after a point. Now this.

So what did they talk about. A theory that explains how I am "putting a bandaid on the wrong wound" (both brothers' words).

And they talked about my masturbating in front of everybody while we watched TV.

So back to my original question...Isn't there something wrong with a Dad knowing his little kid is masturbating (fully clothed) but never does anything about it...deosn't ask me not to do it, doesn't take me aside to explain things, doesn't ask me to leave the room AND doesn't leave the room himself?

OR

Am I just so touchy about all this stuff that I'm blaming him for something that's not all that bad. I mean, how many dads actually talk to their sons about masturbation, he was probably just embarrassed and looked the other way.

BUT to joke about it with my brothers now, without my knowing they knew or that they are talking...I feel vulnerable and violated.

As a retired counselor, he should know better.

I don't know what I'm expecting from y'all. Maybe if you could give me some vocabulary to explain how Dad crossed the line. Or put me at peace if he didn't.

I know my feelings now are important and valid, but I guess I'm just wondering from more objective sources how to view that Family TV watching/my masturbating scenario.

I hate this, but I love y'all.

 

[outis]

L2R,

I'm a Dad. If I saw that kind of behavior from my son, I'd talk to him. I'd want him to know more about how his body functions. I'd want him to know that he could upset people if they saw him doing that. I'd want him to know it's ok to talk to me about things like that, too.

It should be ok to talk to a parent because a parent (and a sibling) should have enough respect to keep personal information shared in confidence confidential.

So, as for crossing the line, I think your Dad and your brothers went too far. He should have parented you back then. Each of them should have respected your confidentiality now.

In SIA we talk about mourning the death of the ideal family that we carried in our imaginations. I do love them, but the best things about my family were the ones I only imagined.

Thanks,

Joe

 

[Mike Church]

L2R I agree with Outis. I also think that your older brother tried an end run around you to get off the hook. I think that he remembers but is ignoring it. Now he has you in the hot seat.

I tell you I would be pretty pissed off with his actions and do something. I cannot tell you what to do only you can decide but I think your brother is a first class jerk and perp. Not only a jerk and a perp but a sneaky bastard too.

 

[learning2remember]

Thanks for the replies. Keep them coming, please. I need all the support I can get.

I've been in counseling for a little while, and have been doing very well over all, but my family had just about convinced me that I'm crazy.

I don't know how they can do it, but they are all just so kind and reasonable, even my big brother.

The rationalization is that they talked to Dad because they were worried about me.

I'm just feeling like a dirty little pervert right now, which I know is wrong, I that's how I feel.

So I'm going to talk to Dad, and I'm madder at him than I have been with anybody so far, even big brother perp.

Any advice on breaking the ice with Dad, knowing he knows?

One other problem about his thoery--that I am creating a crisis because I'm stressed out by graduating from graduate school and moving.

The other problem is that my big brother perp has this friend who is about to get her masters in counseling and she came up with the same theory independently of Dad.

So, the way big bro sees it, two counselors, one retired and one just starting out, both had the same take on it.

The way I see it, two counselors, neither one specializing in SA, neither of them speaking to me AT ALL about it, reached a theory that acquited the one who came to them. One was my bro's friend, the other his father--neither of them could be objective. And if they were worth their salt they would have said that!

Bro says he has tried to remember but can't, very convincing. How can I tell him he remembers if I'm the only one that does. I thought twin was there, too, but he has no memory either.

So they worry about me behind my back and make themselves feel better.

I was doing so well, I mean I had this thing licked until my most recent talk with Big Bro when it came out that they'd been conferencing secretly with theories of their own and embarrassing memories about me.

I feel like I was near the top of a hill, and they just pushed me to near the bottom again. I've got all this climbing to do that I've already done before (esteem, trusting memories, etc.)

Thanks again, guys.

 

[Ken Singer LCSW]

L2R:
You ask:

Bro says he has tried to remember but can't, very convincing. How can I tell him he remembers if I'm the only one that does. I thought twin was there, too, but he has no memory either.

I tell abusers who can't remember (which is different from denying) or those who were too drunk/stoned to recall, that the memory of the victim is more accurate then because he remembers or was sober at the time.

Therefore, the memory of the victim is more accurate.

Ken