A question to F&F for survivors (MAY TRIGGER!)

[crisispoint]

I need to ask something of our F&F community, and I'll understand if it's a difficult subject.

I've been so fortunate in my life to have friends, family, and loved ones who've been supportive of me ever since I "came out" with the facts that I was abused. But I can't help but wonder if people view me in a different way once they know.

Self-esteem issues, yes, but I wonder sometimes if they view me as "damaged goods," a weakling for not stopping the abuse or "allowing myself" to be raped as an adult, or even as a potential perp, because as we all know, "all abusers were abused themselves" (A LOAD OF BULL****T! ).

I guess my questions are as such:

Do you view your loved one differently since knowing they were abused or raped?

Do you "blame" them, even subtly, for the abuse?

Do you think of them as "lesser men" because they were abused?

Are you afraid of them abusing kids themselves?

I fear the answers that may come, and feel free to PM me if you don't want to post them publically, but I feel the need to know, if only for my own sense.

Peace and love,

Scot

 

[Sinking]

Good question Scot, I often wonder too. I can say this though, I have had many friends and family, even my therapist, marvel at the fact that I have survived till now and that I continue to work on my issues and.....thrive. Many have expressed their respect to the point of awe. For a child to have been repeatedly raped, molested, physically and emotionally abused and emotionally neglected from the ages of 4 (physical and emotional abuse) and 9 (when the rapes started) until 13 or 14 is nothing short of amazing in my book (reaches around and pats self on back). Many who care about me tend to agree.

But I would like to hear from the F&F community too. I'll be checking back often. Thanks for posing the questions Scot. Peace to you all - John

 

[kolisha54]

Fascinating question!

I have a kind of "different" perspective on it....

I have been convinced for many years that my Loved One has sustained the betrayals of SA, but we have gone for many years without him coming out & specifically shattering the silence, although there have been many hints.

Meanwhile, I have found MS & many many other resources that have helped me to better understand what this is all about and its lingering impact on individuals, families, and partners.

Especially since finding MS, my understanding has grown exponentially.

And - within that relatively brief length of time, no less than five separate people in five completely separate instances have confided in me as to their terrible history.

Do I view them any diferently? No No No NO!! All that has happened is that my heart has grown even fonder of them & my respect for them has become even deeper than it already was. They are walking Miracles with what they have accomplished & triumphed over. And - no, I do not take a look at these people & think "oh! Wounded! Damaged Goods! Oh - poor poor things!!!" NO WAY! Unless the abuse issue actually comes up, I think of these people the same as I always have, but with a greater sense of intimacy & respect between us. I feel incredibly humbled and honored to have been trusted this deeply.

I hope, some day, that my Loved One will have as much faith in both of us to be able to shatter his silence, too.

But things are much much different between "more than friends" and the junk that comes up out of the past is still so raw that ANY kind of emotion - happy or sad - can seem very overwhelming to both of us.

And, to be fair, the issue of his SA DOES color our entire relationship now - I am not sure if he suspects I know about it or not. But, on the other hand, I am not willing to compromise his privacy by asking him directly. I don't think this could have any good outcome - when/if he's ready to share his past, then he will do so. If I push it, I will be invasive no matter how "loving" my motives.

So - if he ever WERE to break his silence, yes, my views of him would change significantly: but for the BETTER - because than I would know that I would be a full, trusted partner in his recovery.

Hope this helps!!!

 

One woman's opinions...$3.00's worth... which means that my opinion is worth about a gallon of gas or a pound of steak. Hmm..I wonder what is more valuable????


"Do you view your loved one differently since knowing they were abused or raped?"

NO, NO, NO!!! Certainly not in any negative sense. He was never at fault for anything...totally innocent in all ways.... just a very good little boy respecting authority and his elders and being obedient as he was taught to be. But I will admit to respecting and admiring him MORE as a human being for enduring and surviving for so long and for his strength and courage in facing the lies, refuting them, refusing to believe, seeking the truth, and embracing the hard challenges of recovery and healing!!!

I respected and admired him a great deal before, but since his disclosure, he has gone all the way to "hero" status for the inner strength he has shown by surviving and disclosing and mostly for trusting both himself and those to whom he has disclosed. I am so very proud of him!! I think very few grown men have this much courage and inner strength, but how many little boys could have managed to rescue themselves and overcome so much pain and adversity to become such a high-quality human being for so long with no help at all from anyone..and keeping their roots firmly planted in life for so long and so well that he became a powerful foundation upon which to build himself into the strong man who has finally now spat in the faces of his abusers.

I admire him more than I do the brave heroes who managed to maintain their sanity and health after years and unspeakable torture in prisoner of war camps and concentration camps. How could it be so different if you are imprisoned in a "wall of silence" where you live alone with abuse and terror, nightmares and flashbacks all your life with no hope of escape? I admire him with more wonder than I confer on such men as Senator John McCain and others .. and these men were already grown-ups with a real sense of the world and strategies to use for coping.. unlike the child who is only a tiny seed ready to grown and bloom.. but stepped on before he has a chance...

But not my "loved one." He pushed his way out of the "pit" anyway like the "Rose" pushing itself out from under the Winter snows and frozen hard ground... and he is reaching with all his might for the sun and the rainbow above it.. and he will make it.. I have faith in him. Do I "view him differently" now that he has disclosed? Well, viewing him bravely walking on the red-hot coals of his hardest "trial by fire" might be a "different view" than the one I had before.. but I fell in love with him for "who he is" and I just didn't know "how" he got to be "who he is" until he disclosed.. Now I can answer the question "How?"... Different view? Nah!! Just a pretty clear answer to "How" he got to be "who he is." I always have loved him for "who he is" and he can't change "who he is" no matter how much more digging into himself he does.. He will just find in the end that he sees exactly what I see and then I guess we will say that we truly have a "meeting of the minds" then.. I will be grateful when that day finally does come.. It WILL come....

He's the one who taught me that "happiness is the best revenge." I admire anyone who can live by their own words. He boggled my mind with his disclosure at first, but it did explain his puzzling behavior and I am so relieved to finally know the truth! The truth of his disclosure has bonded us in ways that I never expected.. so deep and so meaningful. I'm very strong but I'm not sure that I could have become such a "class act" as he has become with such a burden to have to carry through life from my early childhood. My burdens were hard enough but nothing like his. It's hard enough to live one life, let alone having to live two of them and one of them so exemplary. Talk about the "Phoenix" shaking from its ashes and soaring into the air with powerful wings and heading right for the rainbow! I really am dazzled.

Does that mean that I "view him differently?" Maybe his going from someone I admired and respected and loved before to my "hero," now because of the battle he has had to fight would change my answer to a qualified "yes." I'll let you decide..... I can only say in full honesty that while I am so sad that he has had to suffer so much pain, I could not be more proud of anyone than I am of him and it's because of what he has been through, NOT despite it! I don't have any other heroes.. just him and because of what he had been through and what he is taking on now. (Ummm.. was I just supposed to say a simple "No" or "Yes" to this question? Well, I have both as answers but I needed to explain. (He HATES it when I recognize and compliment him, so I hope he doesn't read this.. ULP!!)

[Oh, I guess I should also explain that as "my man/partner" is concerned, none of this matters at all in how I see him in our relationship. This is probably going to be hard to explain but the best analogy I can come up with is that I have a friend of many years who introduced himself to me originally as his name being "Mudd" and after I got used to calling him that he told me his name is Bruce. Well, too late now.. I only know him as "Mudd" and that's all he could ever be to me. Same thing is true of my "loved one." I only see him as the man who I fell in love with and no matter what else I learn about him, as far as our relationship is concerned he can only ever be that same guy. Someone could tell me that he's really the King of Siam and even prove it to me, but he will always only be the simple man I fell in love with back when we first met. Nothing can ever change that, not his past, not his present, not his future.. He can only be the guy who lives in my heart and my soul and who is smiling out of the pictures I have. NOTHING IN THIS WORLD CAN EVER CHANGE THAT... CERTAINLY HIS ABUSERS CANNOT STEAL THAT FROM ME. NEVER!!!

"Do you "blame" them, even subtly, for the abuse?"

NO, NO, NO!!! HE WAS/IS TOTALLY 100% INNOCENT!!! The concept of this question is so preposterous, I have not even contemplated it, but just rejected it out of hand and instantly. Maybe being a woman, I am used to being "blamed" for things which are not my fault.. even for how I look and the fact that many have unfairly read my "cover" without even attempting to peek into my "book." I have been many times accused, erroneously judged, convicted, and then executed for "blame" based on just how I look and that is as irrational and irresponsible and STUPID as blaming any victim of a crime, violent or otherwise, for the pain and damages they have had forced on them.. The very concept of "blaming" an innocent victim for the crimes committed against them is just too preposterous for me to contemplate or address. And when that victim became a victim in the tender and innocent stage of development called "childhood" when adults were supposed to be nurturing and protecting him, is just unthinkable. NEVER WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE FOR ME TO FIND ANY BLAME IN HIM FOR THE CRIMES PERPETRATED AGAINST HIM NO MATTER WHAT THEY WERE, WHEN THEY WERE, OR WHO COMMITTED THEM. HE IS ONLY INNOCENT NO MATTER HOW THE CARDS ARE CUT!

That is my ONLY attitude and nothing can ever change that.. NOTHING AT ALL! IT IS SET IN STONE!! Unfortunately, we DO live in a world which often makes no sense and which turns upside down regularly... but that is because we have sociopaths with enough power in their hands that they cannot only become corrupted themselves, but they can corrupt or damage all that they touch. Luckily, I am one of the "good guys" and I am easy to spot because I'm the one with the "white hat." There is no "blame" attached to him or anyone who was an innocent victim of a violent crime ... including one of coersion whch is just violence which takes a little longer to achieve.

"Do you think of them as "lesser men" because they were abused?"

NO, NO, NO!!! *MORE* OF A MAN FOR SURVIVING AND FACING THE DEMONS!!!! MY HERO!! That is an absurd and illogical dual concept. The very concept of being "abused" means that if a male was the abuser, it was "he" and not the innocent victim who was "no man" at all. Forget "lesser." No "real man" would prey on an innocent child. Only one of the sub-humans (male or female) who are not "fit" enough to contribute to the gene pool fail to be able to have a "normal and healthy" relationship with an appropriate partner and determine irrationally that one way to overcome their feelings of inadequacy and unfitness as part of the human species would be to overpower an innocent, helpless child (or woman).

How much power does it take to pull an ice cream cone out of the hands of a five year old? That's no feat... no display of power. That sniveling, sociopathic failure of the human gene pool is way below a "lesser man" because he is NO MAN at all... not even human. The powerful child who can manage to overcome such a brutal mind-bending and body bashing onslaught against his very core of humanity and still rescue himself, by himself... thank you very much, to prevail and sustain himself against the harsh winds of his life-sucking demons and go on to finally discover the possibility of recovery and healing is way, way 'MORE MAN' by virtue of his having to pit himself against the demons who would try to suck the life from him to own it themselves and try to build themselves as bigger and better with the bricks of the healthy, pure, and innocent child. No one can steal the building bricks of anyone else.. especially those of a tender and innocent child. The child victim grown up to become a man is WAY, WAY, WAY *MORE* MAN... THE MAN WHO I WOULD REVERE AS THE *BEST* OF MEN... even if his distaste for my admiration can only be overcome by his casting off of the abusers' lies and then the ultimate acceptance of himself as he really is.. as I KNOW him...

But, then the powerful "man child" who was his core is growing now and there is no stopping him.. Finally he will catch up and when he no longer runs from the Truth of his virtues, he will have won and the demons will have lost. It's because the demons are all "lesser men" and he is a "real man" (In Yiddish he is called a "Mensch"), that they can only victimize someone who is smaller and taught to be obedient to adults... The good child has no other imperative but to respect authorities, which are always elders... and cooperate and obey...that's the "job" of a good child.. their ONLY "job"....but he also fights the demons at some point in his adulthood and realizes that he has become one of those "authorities" and "elders" and he begins to respect himself.. It's part of the process that the powerful child finally aspires to when he puts the demons back in Hell after he goes back in time to rescue himself.. the "powerful, courageous man" who has won the battle to survive >>>>dragging his "powerful man child" up by the bootstraps out of Hell...and the powerful child and powerful man become one in the same...finally morphing into a new and wonderful creation.. unlike any other in the world.. certainly very unique and very special... and worth having.. like the "Hope Diamond" or a "Rembrandt" painting...

I have nearly recovered from my own SA and so I feel that I deserve such a "Mensch" and he is worth supporting...I have already slain my abusers and I'm just cheering in the stands waiting to see him hold up his sword and see the bloody heads of the abusers dangling from it.. GRRRRRRRRR!!! I'm not a "Pit Bull"... Just call me "Doberman!" It's the "lesser man" who will be dangling on the tip of the sword, not the man who holds the sword by the handle!!! He's the Warrior grown up now... who I would also call "Mensch." GRRRRRRRRR!!!

"Are you afraid of them abusing kids themselves?"

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!!!! (What follows is only my opinion and may not be found documented anywhere.. but you did ask for personal opinions.. so here goes...) Someone in these forums made the very wise and logical statement that CSA survivors grow up to become either "victims, abusers, or protectors." Well, I have grown up to become a "Protector" and so has he. (My personal opinion now "Protectors" are only programmed to do one thing.. even if they can get confused along the way in recovery and healing. The signposts are missing on the path in many cases and the landmarks can be confusing.... so sometimes the old patterns seem to suddenly re-appear to comfort because they are so familiar and familiarity most often gives some comfort even if it's the same baseball bat bashing you over the head as it has all your life. You develop strategies for dealing with it bashing from above. When it is suddenly gone, there is a strange void to deal with and sometimes finding the baseball bat again gives some strange comfort even if it hurts again...

Human nature being what it is, too often some people go into auto-pilot on the false premise that the "Devil you know is easier to deal with than the devil you don't know." Of course, rational people call that "fear of the unknown." Sometimes in the attempt to throw off that devil, in the scuffle there is a reversal of roles and the victim flips to the mirror and scares himself into thinking he might become the abuser.. and then "YIKES!" .. that horrifying, shocking, cold bucket of water recognition occurs and then he finally settles down to what he (my loved one) will ultimately and irrevokably become: "THE PROTECTOR!"

Well, you asked. If anyone doesn't want to see fangs when passionate issues come up, never invite the Doberman in the pool of respondents..... ..GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

Hope this was helpful. I know it was long! If "he" doesn't read it, he won't get pissed.. If he does....Oh, well! It won't be the first or the last time I have pissed him off.... Wooffff!

Judi "Doberman" ~^..^ A Non-Hushing "Woofff!"

 

[Mystic Rhythm]

Wow Lady Jude! You're man is by far extremely lucky to have you on his side. I am truly envious.

I had similar support from a friend and colleague, but she couldn't handle it anymore and we had a very ugly fight. To the point where we'll file legal action should either one contact the other.

I am truly envious of you two.

MR

 

[SAR]

Hi Scot and all,

I started replying and realized that my reply was not answering your question, so I started a thread here -- hoping that you guys could return the favor and comment on something, for my own sense.

Now I will try and really answer the question

Do you view your loved one differently since knowing they were abused or raped?

I didn't view him differently, but I had different concerns. Right after his disclosure I was more sensitive to his bad days and moods-- I had never seen him so vulnerable and upset, and the depths of his sadness and pain scared me. I worried that he had suicidal thoughts. I worried that he would continue to isolate and get depressed. I worried that he couldn't be happy. Prior to disclosure, I was worried about him too-- but it was more about practical stuff like how he was sleeping and eating.

***may trigger*****

He was a very unsafe driver and drove long ways with little sleep. This was something that had always concerned me, but after he disclosed I became really scared that he was doing it on purpose, looking to kill himself.

**** end possible trigger*****

I was also concerned that if he went to therapy he would decide to end the relationship, he would determine that the whole thing was unhealthy. I wanted him to get help badly, but I feared it would come at the cost of the relationship. I have posted more about that elsewhere on this forum.

Do you "blame" them, even subtly, for the abuse?

I don't blame him for anything that happened to him, or even for the ways that the effects of the abuse hurt our relationship (lack of communication, sexual acting out)-- but I do ask that he acknowledge that by bringing the effects of the abuse into the relationship, to some extent there are relationship issues that he needs to be responsible for fixing. I think it is hard for him to do that without blaming himself.

His sexual acting out was over long before I discovered that it had happened-- and when I asked him why he had done it, he said he felt it had to do with sexual abuse. When I asked him why he'd never told me about it, he said that he couldn't because he didn't know how to confess to acting out without also disclosing abuse.

I'm being honest here-- that sounded like such a weak, terrible, flimsy excuse, and I know that he's a smart guy who could come up with a better lie than that-- so I decided that he only would have said it if it were true to him. It still made no sense to me though. Part of the reason I first came to MaleSurvivor was to learn if this could be true, if it was true for other survivors, to understand how sexual abuse could contribute to some of the things my boyfriend had done.

I was never afraid that he would hurt our children. I was afraid that he might continue to act out sexually and to generally be a moody, neglectful partner, partly because his doing so would have ended the relationship. For a long time (probably 18 months) after his disclosure I did not know if I would be able to stay with him... NOT because he was "damaged" or because I was afraid he would abuse, but because honestly I had had just about all I could take for 6+ years.

Disclosure, alone, would have been too little, too late. The fact that he made changes in his own life, stopped the acting out and started recovery, alleviated most of my fears and doubt. It was what I saw, not what he said, that made the difference. And it is the person he is growing into, not the fact of his abuse, that makes me respect and trust him and want him by my side.

(Same goes for all of you guys here-- what matters to me is not what happened to you, it is what you have done and the remarkable people you are becoming.)

SAR

 

[Caetel]

Dear Scot

My answers to your questions are:

NO, NO, NO and NO !

I have loved V even more when I started to realized how severely he was abused. I have never thought of him as a lesser man. I believe he is an extraordinary brave man and I feel for him especially when I think about how lonely he has been all these years and how lonely he is with his intimacy issues.
I never thought he could abuse children, NEVER crossed my mind. On the contrary I always thought of him as a potential great father. I wish some day he will become the father of my children. I will be very proud to bear his children.
From the start I have loved him as he really is not as he sees himself: a generous, sweet, sensitive, honest, loving and caring man.
Of course from time to time I think about the kind of abuse he suffered, very graphic images come to my mind. I become enraged, I am very angry at his mother. I also feel so powerless. There is so much love I want to give him and yet I know that all the love I can give will never change what happened and never erase his hurt. I feel big waves of tenderness and love. He is the man I have chosen fully and completely.
I hope this will help you on your journey.

 

**MAY HAVE TRIGGERS BUT NOT SURE**

MR...

I didn't really know how to respond to your post before, although I wanted to, but since Caetel has responded I have more courage.

The sad story is that you have nothing to "envy" because he has rejected my totally for the last four years, which is well before I had any idea of possible CSA and I had not at all even acknowledged my own abuses from my childhood to my adulthood.I feel about him exactly as Caetel feels about her "V," but I have no clue of how he feels about me, where I stand with him, or even if I stand anywhere at all. I fell so hopelessly in love with him four years ago and for "who he is," and who is he is sounds very much like who Caetel's "V" is to her. If I could custom-build my perfect lifetime mate, he would be the one and only one who could ever fit the model. I could never love him more than I have since four years ago, but I do respect and admire him more for what he has had to endure and the very fact of his having survived all of it and still be here as the finest quality a human being can be.

Four years ago he invited me into relationship and I was terrified and asked for six months timeout. I had no real idea of why I was so afraid but I knew that I had always been abused in relationships and that I needed to find out what I was doing wrong to cause abuse to me and fix it before I could dare to have another relationship. He was so special to me and I knew he was "the one," so I was willing to give my "ALL" to finding out what was wrong with me and fixing it before I could go meet him. I wanted to meet him healthy and ready to have the relationship which I knew would have been built so naturally on the relationship we had already developed in writing. I knew from the start we just so naturally fit together that we would both have our dreams come true for shared love and intimacy and happiness and I needed to come prepared to be my best and not what I felt at the time was my worst. I can testify that "love at first sight" doesn't mean seeing with the eyes because it happened to me and I have yet to ever see him with my eyes. But I saw him with all parts of me and mostly with my heart.

I still had not been able to put my finger on my own abuses, including SA, but I asked him to wait for me and he just couldn't. I really didn't understand why at all and I spent the next four years struggling to try to find out why he wouldn't wait for me and to try to ask him to change his mind. I truly believed in us then and nothing I have ever learned, including my SA or his CSA, has changed my beliefs. They are cast in stone and always will be.

Since that time, he has only ever given me the feedback that he doesn't trust me. I have felt him testing me for a long time and I was very comfortable with that because I know who I am and that I can pass any test he wants to throw at me,and I don't have to study. My core qualities are the best that anyone can have so I truly believed that after he tested me in all ways that he could think of, he would finally realize that I am totally trustworthy and he would tear down the "wall of silence" between us and we would join hands and just walk into the sunset. But, it seems that no matter how many tests I pass, he can't trust me.. or maybe he just doesn't really love me either. One way or the other, I never realized before that I was threatening his boundaries by pursuing him. I felt all the time that he didn't believe that I loved him and I held my breath and defied my own demons of fear of rejection and my shyness.. and my own very sensitive respect for the privacy of others and I tried with all my heart to prove to him that I love him with all my heart and soul.. and that I would never betray him in any way or reject or abandon him. I felt that that was the issue and I know me so well that I knew that these things were impossible and that I would and could stick no matter what happened. I thought I was proving my devotion and my strength to him by withstanding all his rejections and all his kicks and punches. I would never have pursued anyone else in my life. He is the only one.. but then I feel about him just as Caetel feels about her "V.".... " I also feel so powerless. There is so much love I want to give him and yet I know that all the love I can give will never change what happened and never erase his hurt. I feel big waves of tenderness and love. He is the man I have chosen fully and completely."

Now that I think he suffers from CSA, I have a better understanding of his possible issues and I have no problem at all in being his life partner and his "strong healing partner," but he continues to push me away and ignore me and I realize, more than ever, that violating his boundaries is something I simply can no longer do. Before I thought I was proving my love and devotion and strength to him... but now I see that what I was really doing was violating him and maybe that's even the reason he distrusts me.. I had no idea,but had I not "violated his boundaries," the "relationship," as abstract as it is, would have just died.. and I kept fanning the flames at all costs because I can't even imagine my life without him in it..

What I said above in my previous post is exactly how I feel and how I think. I agree that I would make a very excellent mate for him, but if he doesn't agree, it's just not going to happen. I have violated his boundaries for the last time. It would have been the wrong thing to keep doing anyway.. but now that I understand the CSA issues, I can see that it the best way to destroy the relationship, not reconnect it. So, it's one of those "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation. So, all I can do is just be here visible enough that he will know I am supporting him, IF he is even here.. and just sit in the row with the other "wall flowers" and just pray that he will finally ask me to dance. With all the reading I have done, there has never been one single fragment of information which has discouraged me or dissuaded me in any way. I have a greater understanding and empathy because of my SA and all the progress I have made in recovery and healing... so I know what he is up against and I already know the way.. Besides I have watched my own progress and I have seen what a different life I can have in front of me with all the damned fears (demons) finally deflated and left on the path behind me. I know that If I can make this kind of progress, so can he. He is much smarter and stronger than I am and if he is motivated, he can do it.. I could write an essay about his courage, but I won't. Being fearful, as we all know, and moving in the direction of our fears to spit in their eyes and slay them is what makes courage. If we are not afraid, then slaying demons has no element of courage to it.. What I hope with all my heart is that he was running away from me in fear, not because he doesn't love me. Fear he can overcome with the struggle toward recovery. If he just doesn't love me, there is nothing I can do about that.. It's not possible to make someone love you if they don't. I can only speak from my heart and soul and they are both filled to capacity with love for him, and always have been. I can't love him more for his endurance over CSA because I love him to the max, but knowing what he has endured against and why he has behaved as he has makes me respect and admire him more.

It's all about individuals. One person might not be able to partner a CSA survivor while another one can be a perfect fit. It's not any more prone to general rules than the issue of CSA itself as it effects individuals individually. I'm so sorry to learn of his pain and it breaks my heart and I would like to find whoever committed these crimes against them and rip their arms out of their sockets and beat them with them.. Hmmmm.. should I put up a trigger warming for that statement? But, when two people come together in a relationship, whatever is part of the package becomes part of the relationship. I have my issues and he has his. I would be very hurt if he ruled out a relationship with me because of something which happened to me which I could not prevent and when I was totally innocent and defenseless. Doctors who can't figure out what is wrong with a woman, like to blame it on her so they don't look incompetent as doctors. I'm used to that having been through it on a few occasions. I would like to believe that I am much too worthy as a human being to ever fall to that low a level of function. What man would want a mate who would walk out when the going got rough? What if he had an accident like Steve Reeve had and needed to depend even more on his wife and she wasn't there for him? What if that happened to her and he didn't stand by her? I know of two women who developed Rheumatoid Arthritis and their husbands not only merely walked out on them but abused them first and then left them almost penniless in the street. That's sub-human as far as I am concerned. I regard myself as being on the highest level of the human strata and I take pride in my strength and devotion to those who I love. I will always believe that Love truly can and will conquer all. If he does love me, and I can certainly speak for my love of him, I still believe in magic and that there just isn't anything which could challenge us which we could not only overcome but turn to our advantage to have a better life than most anyone has ever had... and, yes, also a better sex life, too.. because two very passionate and creative people who believe in "win-win" solutions will not only prevail but they will come out on top of all adversity. I spit in the eyes of my abusers and his.. and if he ever decides to partner with me, he will have twice as much spit....

Well, I just had to vent....and "tell the truth." When the going gets tough, the tough get going.. Just bring the demons on!!!

Judi

 

[Lloydy]

Judi
I'm sorry but I have to state my PERSONAL feeling here, I know I'm an Admin here, but these comments are NOT on behalF of MS.

Below I've copied some comments from your last post, and my feeling is that you need to take a long hard look at what's going on.

Is he a survivor of CSA or not ?


Sometimes you say "possible CSA" and at other times "including my SA or his CSA, has changed my beliefs. They are cast in stone and always will be."
I respect your SA, and feel glad that you believe you have healed from it, but I feel that you do this man a great injustice to keep assuming that him keeping his distance from you is due to CSA.

Like so many others here I freely admit that my healing from CSA would have been so much harder without my wife ( or partner ), but I also agree with the concensus of opinion that wives, partners or family can't effectively drag a CSA survivor into healing, which by all accounts you seem to want to do.

Perhaps the reason he's not jumping to your wishes lie elswhere?

This site is dedicated to Male Survivors and those who live, love and deal with us, and in all honesty what you bring here adds nothing to our healing, and I suspect the same goes for the the genuine CSA Survivors partners.

Dave


The sad story is that you have nothing to "envy" because he has rejected my totally for the last four years, which is well before I had any idea of possible CSA

but I do respect and admire him more for what he has had to endure and the very fact of his having survived all of it and still be here as the finest quality a human being can be.

I truly believed in us then and nothing I have ever learned, including my SA or his CSA, has changed my beliefs. They are cast in stone and always will be.

Now that I think he suffers from CSA, I have a better understanding of his possible issues and I have no problem at all in being his life partner and his "strong healing partner,"

but now that I understand the CSA issues, I can see that it the best way to destroy the relationship, not reconnect it.

I have a greater understanding and empathy because of my SA and all the progress I have made in recovery and healing... so I know what he is up against and I already know the way..

I can't love him more for his endurance over CSA because I love him to the max, but knowing what he has endured against and why he has behaved as he has makes me respect and admire him more.

I'm so sorry to learn of his pain and it breaks my heart and I would like to find whoever committed these crimes against them and rip their arms out of their sockets and beat them with them.. Hmmmm..

 

Your point is well taken. I will not post here anymore.

Thank you...

 

[SAR]

Thanks Dave.

I must also state here that I'm only commenting as myself, not as an Admin. or representative of MaleSurvivor...

but I don't think it helps the healing of the men here or their partners for people to go on and on in this forum about how they wish they could realize their dream of a relationship with a certain male survivor.

No offense to any of you men meant AT ALL... but that lovely dream does not reflect my reality and probably not the reality of most of the couples here. Scot, if my answer to you was somewhat pessimistic, it was only meant to give a more grounded and honest view of how difficult and slow it is to build working relationships, and how many aspects of life these issues affect. The end result (for me and my partner) has been worth the struggle but that doesn't mean that it just happened because I love him.

I'd like to see male survivors and those close to them use this forum to process and share those real-life difficult emotions and situations. I find that some days it is an uphill battle to put that stuff out there, in the face of all the other stuff.

 

[EBrook]

Do you view your loved one differently since knowing they were abused or raped?

A little bit, yes. I find myself being more careful of him and less able to express negative feelings. I realize that in a sense this is condescending and does us both an injustice. If he can't handle the real me, both good and bad, why would I want him in my life -- and why would he want me in his? We haven't really decided whether we should remain in each other's lives, and his history is a big part of the reason, and that's just the way it is right now.

Do you "blame" them, even subtly, for the abuse?

Not even for a minute.

Do you think of them as "lesser men" because they were abused?

I'm going to split hairs here, because I'm not sure what you're asking. Do I consider him less capable (at the moment) than a "normal" man of participating fully, both emotionally and sexually, in a romantic relationship? Yes, and I'd consider him less able to run if he had a broken leg, too. But do I see him as less masculine, less adult, or somehow permanently inferior? Absolutely not.

Are you afraid of them abusing kids themselves?

Not even remotely.