Understanding boys/men and CSA

Understanding boys/men and CSA
J

just me

Registrant
Why didn't he tell anyone?​
How could he let that happen to himself?​
My son knows he can always come to me.​
Why would he like an evil man?​
He's my best friend, I would know if he was sexually abused.​
He has everything going for him, why does he look so sad all the time?​
​
This post was originally written as my response to watching Leaving Neverland, while this is not the forum thread to discuss the merits of that film, witnessing those raw interviews reminded me of the points made below. I have reposted it here because there are so many who never realized how incredibly complicated things are for survivors of sexual abuse. My hope is that family, friends and survivors will read this, and the replies of others that offer additional information, and that it will help them during this unexpected journey, in even a small way.​

Here are just of few of the lessons reiterated in the film that "We" understand, but those who don't have the intimate view of this confusing world of CSA may fail to fully grasp, I'm sorry you have a reason to be here, and to read this, but thank you for trying, even though its so trying; thank you for helping.

* It's not black and white/ it's not good and evil, yes the behavior is evil at it's core but the fact that the 'abuser' may have redeeming qualities does not make him/her either all good or all bad or offer proof to whether or not he/she 'could have ' done it. Humans seem to struggle with this ambivalence and feel a deep need to pick sides. The very sad irony is that powerful people that abuse this trust often have many followers that decide, based on this ambivalence, that the victim is the abuser just because they are challenging their world view by the very accusation that such a 'wonderful' person could have perpetrated such evil. (The simple proof is that in cases where the abuser has little social standing- then everyone 'trusts' the child victim)

* 'It' HAS to be dealt with! Someday it boils over. 5, 10, 20, 50 years, it matters not- but when it comes it comes with unpredictable ferocity. (Like James quote from the documentary "Secrets will eat you up"- eventually-- they need to be addressed.

* BUT, 'it' has to be dealt with in it's own time, WHEN the child/survivor is READY. (Non-survivors really have a hard time understanding this, "Why didn't you just tell someone?")

* When parents aren't the perpetrators, parents may be the last people on the face of the earth a child may be ready to tell, even IF they are ready. Parents really struggle with understanding this! Think 'shame,' the child's love for the parent makes them feel even more shame, it can be just too much- THEY CAN'T TELL YOU, they just cant, please parents understand, they want your love, they want your protection and the fact that even IF they are ready to tell they can't tell you is not your fault or even a criticism of your parenting. It's just how boys are wired. (When a family member is the abuser it can add another layer of 'impossible' from the child's perspective to tell parents)

* Victims deny, lie, and change their stories- wait don't get upset yet, let me explain what I mean. When boys or even adults are ready to let some of this out, they may start with a small 'Easter egg,' a comment or line dropped unconsciously to gauge the reaction of the listener. The reaction of the listener is EVERYTHING and decides whether there is progress or regression. Even when the reaction to this disclosure is done well the survivor may say that they have shared EVERYTHING that has happened to them regarding the abuse. the short answer is, they have NOT. AND THAT'S OK!!! Wait let me say that again, IT'S OK, that they are not ready yet, over time everything but perhaps the deepest and most shameful experience will come out- but until ready, victims will deny, lie and change their stories. Please just accept this, validate it, say it's ok, they need to feel safe, truly and really safe to add the next chapter to their story and their experience. "I want to be able to speak the truth as loud as I had to speak the lie for so long"

* Survivors usually do not forget what happened, they may repress, call it a different name or try to avoid even thinking about it but if they are old enough to remember the abuse they know what was done to their body and what they were made to do. They know the confusion, of denying this feeling, even denying this truth to themselves. The body keeps score- and like the initial disclosure above this will come out- but the self-hate and shame of physical pleasure or even liking the pain or hating it all but asking for the attention and blaming oneself for coming back for more. Or not protecting others, or acting out, yes even reenacting the abuse....all of this guilt and shame adds a layer on top of all of the other reasons it's so difficult to survive and thrive. (A word about 'Covert Abuse', sometimes abuse may take a sneaky form of a game, assistance bathing or dressing or even a medical exam etc., in these situations the child may eventually realize that something is not right and that 'it feels wrong' perhaps even recognizing that the adult must be doing this on purpose. But the hidden nature of this abuse creates additional confusion.)

* It's not about stranger danger! The vast majority of abuse is perpetrated by those known to the child. And even when they SHOULD be considered strangers the grooming creates friendship and sometimes even love (often feigned- but children may miss that nuance). That love is then betrayed (even if the abuser in their twisted way thinks it's real) through whatever justification or game - BUT- the LOVE may still be used as the justification, that really messes with kids heads, the question becomes what REAL LOVE is.... lifelong relationships are affected.

* Depression, anxiety, substance abuse, confusing sexuality; CSA is the gift that keeps on giving- life is work for everyone, surviving is a circuitous route. So major kudos to all of my brothers here on MS, and all those that support and help, working to survive and thrive everyday- more power to you.


I imagine there is so much more that could be added to this list, feel free to add. This whole forum is really all about this, helping people with understanding sexual abuse, in all it's many forms. This is just my two cents- thank you Male Survivor
 
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THANK YOU for posting this! I have a feeling this is something I'll be referring people to in the future.
 
There is much here that resonates for me and a few things I take exception to. The discussion of parents gives no consideration to the fact many of us were sexually traumatized BY our parents. They would be the last people on earth we would talk to, not because of shame, but because of terror. Yes, there is likely shame as well but it is secondary to terror.

I also disagree with the statement survivors "know what was done to their body and what they were made to do." I've no doubt that is true for many survivors, but hardly every survivor. My initial trauma happened before I had language. There was nothing but physical sensations and while those were doubtless recorded in my body, there was no coherent story to remember. I eventually had to patch together fragments to come to a realization of what happened but that was decades after the traumatic events.

Many of us encountered a predator later in life... and older cousin, a teacher, a priest. We may have come from a troubled family that made us susceptible to the attention of someone, but the trauma happened away from home and/or without our parents knowledge. Others found their perpetrators in their home, as I did. And it was my mother, not my father. The residue of that experience is very different from what a boy sexualized by an older boy or man would carry. I think those distinctions need to be acknowledged if we're going to offer guidance to family and friends. There is no one size fits all here.
 
Visitor said:
There is much here that resonates for me and a few things I take exception to. The discussion of parents gives no consideration to the fact many of us were sexually traumatized BY our parents. They would be the last people on earth we would talk to, not because of shame, but because of terror. Yes, there is likely shame as well but it is secondary to terror.

I also disagree with the statement survivors "know what was done to their body and what they were made to do." I've no doubt that is true for many survivors, but hardly every survivor. My initial trauma happened before I had language. There was nothing but physical sensations and while those were doubtless recorded in my body, there was no coherent story to remember. I eventually had to patch together fragments to come to a realization of what happened but that was decades after the traumatic events.

Many of us encountered a predator later in life... and older cousin, a teacher, a priest. We may have come from a troubled family that made us susceptible to the attention of someone, but the trauma happened away from home and/or without our parents knowledge. Others found their perpetrators in their home, as I did. And it was my mother, not my father. The residue of that experience is very different from what a boy sexualized by an older boy or man would carry. I think those distinctions need to be acknowledged if we're going to offer guidance to family and friends. There is no one size fits all here.
Click to expand...
Thank you for adding these important points, I have edited the post above to reflect same. While you were writing this reply I actually added the point about Covert Abuse because this point was bothering me as well. In fact, I blamed myself for the feelings I had when a doctor touched me inappropriately, I didn't know it was abuse, I thought he had the right to do what he did....it took many years for me to recognize the abuse as what it really was. But the damage was clear...I just blamed myself for that.

And absolutely not a one size fits all, I completely agree. We learn from each other- each of our situations are different, and even the ones that are similar and may offer insight and understanding- cookie cutter is not what CSA is- ever!

My post above was not intended to be all of the required information- this a is a dynamic forum and I hope folks will continue to add and read so that they can gain from the wisdom of others and grow in their own situations.

Thank you!
 
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Thank you for this post, @just me. I can relate to the part about telling parents.. I am 57.. and the abuse happened 36 years ago... and my parents still do not know what happened to me in college.
 
Good grief, this post says SO much to me. I'm still processing it all. I'm gonna have to re-read this several times because I'm learning SO much on here. You guys are SO insightful! Thanks!
 
Thanks, just me, for these insightful words. It certainly gives one a lot to ponder....... on numerous levels.
 
Perhaps a better title for this thread would be "One Man's Experience of CSA..." Calling it a Primer and locating it in this forum suggests you're giving guidance to Family and Friends that will help them understand the man in their lives who has a sexual trauma history. If you've read the threads in this forum you'll note, of course, that many of us share our experiences with these folks when it seems relevant to the conversation. I feel honored to do that and I know other men feel that way as well. Your experience is clearly your experience, but as you note the exceptions taken by a few men, it really doesn't so much qualify as a primer than as one man's experience. Just a thought...
 
Visitor said:
Perhaps a better title for this thread would be "One Man's Experience of CSA..." Calling it a Primer and locating it in this forum suggests you're giving guidance to Family and Friends that will help them understand the man in their lives who has a sexual trauma history. If you've read the threads in this forum you'll note, of course, that many of us share our experiences with these folks when it seems relevant to the conversation. I feel honored to do that and I know other men feel that way as well. Your experience is clearly your experience, but as you note the exceptions taken by a few men, it really doesn't so much qualify as a primer than as one man's experience. Just a thought...
Click to expand...

Thank you for this thoughtful perspective. While the post above is obviously my personal opinion it is not based exclusively or even mostly on my personal experience. What I posted is what I have learned from years of talking with and reading the experiences and perspectives of many survivors of childhood sexual abuse AND their family members and many books on the subject. As I wrote above, this was my reaction to watching Leaving Neverland and I believe these ideas are shared by many survivors. Not all. But I think these are points common enough that they should be considered by those looking for more information about CSA.

What I have written, like all information found on the internet, should be be considered carefully to see if it is true or if it applies to the circumstance one might apply that information to. As I wrote above:
"My hope is that family, friends and survivors will read this, and the replies of others that offer additional information, and that it will help them during this unexpected journey, in even a small way."​
"I imagine there is so much more that could be added to this list, feel free to add. This whole forum is really all about this, helping people with understanding sexual abuse, in all it's many forms. This is just my two cents- thank you Male Survivor"​

Please, everyone who has something to offer that could help, feel free to add another perspective, we will all be more knowledgeable for it.

Since I prefer not to be accused of misleading anyone into thinking that I speak with too much authority I have changed the title of this post from:
'A primer for understanding boys/men and CSA'
To:
'Understanding boys/men and CSA'
 
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Sorry if what I said felt like I was dismissing what you are offering. I understand that our effort to understand and come to terms with what we experience can be consuming since what we experienced was so destabilizing. I think as the thread unfolded it became clear that we've had a wide range of responses simply because the circumstances in which sexual trauma occurs are so varied. Understanding it all is really the work of lifetime... at least I would say that about my own journey. I know the family and friends who navigate to this forum are as confused as we've all been at times. Perhaps this conversation will help them understand just how complex this journey is for all of us.
 
A few items I would venture to add : We've been given a dark gift. Strange or even as offensive as that may appear, it is ours nonetheless. In turn, because we have this knowledge, we are one of the better informed when it comes to csa and can assist our brothers in this walk since we have experienced it first hand.
The other item I wanted to add - it may have already been said in a far better way - this doesn't just ' go away.' No amount of therapy, talking, discussing, crying, or trying to explain it to others makes it go away. There will always be that sad piece of me that waits to be called out to, spoken to, loved, hugged, soothed and listened to - and when I do those things I feel better for having done so, but that piece remains sad and always will. Hope this made sense...........
 
I think that is an honest, yet painful statement WG of what is likely true for all of us. Yes, we want to claim our aliveness and put that painful history in the past where it belongs... but the wounds go deep, often to places we don't know exist in us until in some way we're triggered. Then it pops to the surface and we have another opportunity both to recognize the pain and to mobilize our compassion and self-care. That is one reason I find it so helpful to be on this website where I can support others on their journey. I get to exercise the important caring capacity. I know that care is always available here because I see it happen over and over again. Being here and supporting others is one way I insure the place is available to me when I need it.
 
This is a beyond-necessary discussion.

I applaud the efforts to shine a light on this darkness. We need a better understanding. All of us & together we will build a bridge to cross over the great lake.
 
Just me -thank you for starting this thread. One of my survivor's worst fears is the fear of being misunderstood. I have learned that there are some really painful and harmful misconceptions out there about male survivors. Perhaps the most painful is when one is misunderstood by a loved one.

Your effort to bridge that gap is appreciated, as is every one of you who has ever had the courage to engage either here on F&F, or in the other forums, where I read silently and witness and learn about what my survivor might be going through.
 
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Admittedly, I haven’t been as active on MS the past year, but that doesn’t mean I don’t stop in and make the occasional comment. The sentiment and wisdom in just me’s post is something that I now know comes from a lot of introspection and work. It’s a tapestry woven together only after first untangling many different threads.

I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child, but my parents learned I’d stay still for hours in hyperfocus tying and untying various knots. It was a challenge I always intended to take on and overcome. Those who know me also know that even as an adult, I still enjoy tying and untangling knots as a form of relaxation. (True)

After finally taking on what happened to me when I was 13, I joined MS without knowing what to expect. I eventually told my wife what happened at summer camp and I started seeing a therapist, but the ability to discuss abuse with fellow survivors has proven to be an integral part of my own journey.

Seven years ago I barely had the vocabulary to explain what happened to me. I couldn’t even use the word “rape” for a long time. I used euphemisms instead. Just me’s post encapsulates what I wish I knew when I first began untying this knot. I wish then I’d been better able to explain the tumultuous thoughts and emotions that were bubbling up.

I agree this post is a must read for survivors and those in our lives who feel like they’re always at a loss for words and understanding. Thank you for sharing this.

Will
 
Worse fear is being misunderstood.

Misunderstood the day after when acting out to others what was done to me. Finding out what had occurred with me was not going to be allowed with others. It was awful and no one does that. But it was done to me. But I guess it couldn’t have happened because no one ever acts that way. Being a child is so confusing.

Misunderstood when they thought I had dreamed it up instead of realizing as they should of that something deeply wrong must have happened to me. Misunderstood that I don’t want to go do things when I threw a fit because I didn’t want to have to go somewhere with him. It isn’t that I don’t want to go. It is just don’t make me go with him.

Misunderstood when finally revealing secrets to those I thought I trusted. What made them think they could pick up where others had left off?

Misunderstood when I freeze and allow it to happen because I don’t know what to do. Or I don’t know if I like it. Or I don’t know if I hate myself. Or I don’t know if it is really happening. Or is this a dream... or a nightmare?

Misunderstood that I want to make sure it never happens to someone else. Misunderstood that since I have experience doesn’t mean I will ever let anyone ever do it to another child.

Misunderstood that just because it happen doesn’t mean I am gay or a fag or weird. Or does it?

Misunderstood that my confusion and doubts doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. It happened but I don’t want anyone to know. Or I do want everyone to know. But if they know they will hate me. So I’m confused because it didn’t happen because then no one will ever love me again. But it did. But it couldn’t have.
 
@mmfan Thank you for sharing your survivor's worst fear, that of being misunderstood as a survivor. 'Understanding' is a powerful thing and perhaps rare or difficult for many. It is a blessing when a survivor is understood, especially by those who love them.

I too offer my appreciation to those who engage here on Male Survivor, the work is so important. Thank you @mmfan and @Suwanee for your kind words, they touch me deeply and I appreciate that.

Will @Suwanee, It is truly amazing to me how much I have grown and changed in my own understanding in my over 10 years on here on the forum as well. Thank you for sharing how you untangled these difficult ropes that can bind, the release, both literally and figuratively is empowering. One might argue that time and effort can bring wisdom and understanding to the very powerful and tumultuous emotions.
 
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