A male survivor seeking advice

A male survivor seeking advice
O

outis

Registrant
Hi, gang,

It's been a long time since I've been active here. I've spent a lot of my online time at another site which supports folks trying to save troubled marriages, or going through divorce.

FWIW, I'm past the "trying to save" stage.

Anyway, after my wife left me and the kids (and her mother! :eek: ) this winter, eventually the kids starting visiting with her. And my youngest son began showing some behaviors that set off all kinds of alarms for me. Trying to touch people with his penis, exposing himself to other kids. I had a report from his school about him exposing himself to classmates. I talked to him about it, without any condemning or threat of punishment, just to tell him that some parts of his body are private, etc. Things seemed to settle down after that. (I should mention that I have had him in counseling for a few months now, and I mentioned this to her when it happened.)

This past week my kids have been staying with my wife to visit with her brother, their "favorite uncle," while he's in town. Yesterday I went to the movies with my oldest son and my brother in law. On the ride to the cinema I heard them joking, "That's like when {youngest son} humps the couch." I asked what that was about and they told me that my youngest son "pulls down his pants and 'humps' the couch cushion." They seemed to think this is very funny, and the way they talked about it, it sounds to me like it's not uncommon.

The last time something happened like this with him here at home, I told him again about private parts being private. I also told him, "If anyone tries to touch your private places, or tries to make you touch them, you can tell me and I will make them stop." He replied, "What if it's someone who doesn't live here?" sending chills through me. I guess I should also mention that my wife went through 3 boyfriends (that I know of) in 2004 and she has taken the kids to the current boyfriend's place several times. My oldest calls him "weird" and told me he doesn't like to go there. She has the boyfriend over her place regularly. In fact, he has a key to the TH which she and I still jointly own. I don't.

I talked to a counselor today about this. I have no proof anyone has harmed him. I have only the behaviors I have witnessed and now the news that this kind of behavior is considering amusing over at the TH. I was so afraid of over reacting as a survivor myself, and worried that no one would believe me. What if there is an abuser with access to him and people discard my concerns because we're going through a divorce, or because they think I see monsters where there are none?

Today I was talking with a guy from the other site. I said that this is "not normal behavior for a 5 year old boy." He replied, "My 5 year old doesn't do anything like that." That made me realize just how "not normal" this is.

I decided I can't take the chance that something evil is happening. I don't have any direct proof of SA. But the on call counselor today told me I am not over reacting. That's what I want to believe. So in the morning I will call my son's counselor, tell her about the "highly amusing humping the couch" story, and ask her at what point we need to take this to Child Protective Services.

Good idea, right? Better safe than sorry.

Thanks,

Joe
 
Joe - IMHO This is not normal behavior. A 5 year old may be curious and humping the couch may feel good 'experimenting' but stops upon redirection. The fact he pulls his pants down in public and humps the couch is "out of bounds". The fact he is exposing himself on several occassions in school is suspect. It is probably worth your investigation with a counselor. Let me know what unfolds here!!

Howard
 
I agree with that, it is definately not a normal behaviour and without proper words your kid is calling for help.
I know how triggereing it can be for you, I was in the same situation in February 2004 when I realized my niece was being abused (she was 6 at the time). The abuser was my father, just like me but the thought of her going through the same hell as me gave me the courage to act and press charges.
Be aware also that not wanting to go to this guy's place is also a clear warning sign. Something isn't safe there for them !

Caro
 
This sounds like acting out behaviour, I do not think that a 5yo would do these things.

It might be best to also ask the counsellor to explore what he means by 'weird', this could be a valuable pointer to find out.

If these things are happening, then early intervention has to be the way, but it is difficult with a 5yo, because they do not have the verbal skills to really tell you what is going on.

ste
 
Outis,

I would definitely pursue this with someone who has the professional skills to judge the situation. This sounds like a call for help.

In the course of trying to cope with my own situation a few years ago I noticed that a much younger relative was changing a lot and in radical ways: cheap and very provocative clothing, heavy makeup, and very rebellious behavior. I thought about this a lot and feared I was over-reacting, but finally I told her mother I feared she was doing all this as a response to some kind of abuse. It turned out that she had been date-raped at the age of 14. She has been getting help and is a lot happier now.

Hindsight is always 20/20, I know. But I sure am glad I spoke up!

Larry
 
Joe, I am so glad to see you back, but sorry it has to be with all these troubles.

You are reacting like a concerned parent, and I agree a call to your son's counselor is in order.

Keep us posted.
 
Thanks, folks.

Let me clear up some stuff.

I have no concrete evidence that he is being or has been abused. I have only the observation of these acting out behaviors, and the new knowledge that he acts out like this when he's over with his mother. She doesn't tell anyone, since she claims "the kids don't need counseling."

The comment about her boyfriend being weird came from my 13 year old son, not the 5 year old. I don't ask questions because I don't want to pressure him to "tell on his mother," if you know what I mean.

I did call his C this morning, and this afternoon she told me she is concerned. She isn't jumping to any conclusions, either, but she is concerned that he is acting out this way. As you mentioned, Howard, she told me that pulling down his pants is a specific behavior that's not part of a 5 year old finding out some things feel good.

It's possible he witnessed something, not even necessarily in person, but even on tv, and he got attention when he copied it.

He has his regular appointment on Thursday. His C will be on the lookout for any signs of trouble. If I can get him there. His mother did not bring him back home today with the older two. She's holding him hostage in an attempt to make me agree to her terms in the divorce.

This is an ugly situation right now, and my kids are getting the $hitty end of the stick.

Thanks,

Joe
 
Joe, I thought the same thing as the C, maybe he did witness them doing things.

He maybe copying things that he saw them do, and that is abuse, because he should not witness these things.

I think you need to have a word with the C, and have powers to remove these kids, pending further investigation.

It is hard, when going thru divorce, because it can be seen that you are using false accusations, to have custody.

Your concerns are valid, and you should act upon them, I hope it all works out,

ste
 
Wow do I feel red flashing lights of alarm all over the place.

I've been around quite a few 5 year old little boys, and if they have a "healthy" environment, they just don't "hump" stuff! It just isn't something that enters their minds. In our state, just exposing a young child to such things, whether in person, on a video, verbally, or whatever, constitutes child abuse and action is taken.

If the child's mother is acting irresponsibly, she has no business having private unsupervised visits. Unfortunately, if the divorce isn't final, there's probably no custody stuff established so whoever has the kids at the time, has the kids.

I agree with Ste, pull some strings, throw some weight around...whatever, to keep her visits limited or supervised pending investigation.

I do NOT think you are overreacting in the least. I also think you are going the right direction by involving counsellors, because then it is documented when you need it, and it won't be seen as a power play.

Good luck, and I hope you get him home soon.

Hugs,
Lynn

(Edited cuz I went to read something, and left something else hanging in mid air!)
 
Ste,

I have spoken to the C, and today to my lawyer.

Let me emphasize that I have never had any evidence of abuse besides seeing the innappropriate behaviors. And today my oldest son had a different story. The five year old "never took off his pants to hump the couch. He did that when he was sliding his butt on the floor like a dog or cat."

I'm about as confused as I can be now.

We were at the courthouse today, and my wife will continue to hold my son hostage "until you (Joe) sign an agreement." I'm afraid for his mental and emotional well being just being with her. In the past 11 days with her the boy who ran into my arms each time I picked him up from school or camp has stopped talking to me when I call. He got on the phone tonight to say he doesn't want to talk to me. I said I love him and he said, "Well, I don't."

I will update his C when I can get in touch with her. My wife is making me ill with the way she's treating him as a pawn. And so help me, if I ever find out that she is hurting him or allowing someone else to hurt him, she'll wish there were only Hell to pay.

Thanks,

Joe
 
Lynn,
In our state, just exposing a young child to such things, whether in person, on a video, verbally, or whatever, constitutes child abuse and action is taken.

If the child's mother is acting irresponsibly, she has no business having private unsupervised visits. Unfortunately, if the divorce isn't final, there's probably no custody stuff established so whoever has the kids at the time, has the kids.
Click to expand...
I am working with his C, rather than trying to go directly to Child Protective Services myself right now, because she is qualified to evaluate his behaviors. I am not. My alarms have been screaming, but if I flew off the handle right now, while there is no custody order, I think I would lose credibility. I've been very careful to get the information to the professional, and I will be explicit with the "revised" story I heard from my oldest today when I can catch up with her. His (five yr old's) question to me, "What if it's someone who doesn't live here?" (when I told him I'd stop anyone who hurt him) still screams at me, but it could be a child's innocent question.

All I want to do is whatever is best for my kids. But as I said to ste, if it turns out that she has hurt him or let someone hurt him (and tonight I wonder why it's so important to her that I not see him), I will defend my son and she will not like that at all. I am his father and that is my job.

Thanks,

Joe
 
Joe, he's lucky to have you.


Hugs,
Lynn
 
Joe,

I wanted to let you know that you have my love, support and encouragement in what you are doing.

It is such a terrible situation. You and your strong fatherly love are the bright, shining light in this.

You are the good guy. Lynn is right. You are a blessing in your childrens lives.

Keep the faith buddy. You've got all of us on your and the kids side.

I'm glad you're here.

Regards,
 
Hello, again, my friends.

I spoke with his C today. His mother did not let him go to the appointment, but I was there for his sister anyway. His mother is supposed to reschedule his appt. and would then meet the C finally. For all the kids' sakes, I hope so.

I explained to C that the "pants off" behavior was the "sliding the butt on the floor like a cat" and not the "humping the couch cushions" according to the most recent discussion with my 13 year old. It's still troubling that this is so freakin' funny, and C asked where he had seen the "butt rub." I have no idea, but there are lots of animals living over there. (No, I'm not referring to any of her boyfriends! ;) )

I was going to pick up my oldest from the TH after my daughter's session, but my wife warned me that they would not open the door if I went there. I spoke to a C at the crisis center and she agreed with me that making a scene could get my son home, until the next time my wife takes him, but it would be bad for him. So I didn't and won't do it, unless I ever get solid evidence someone is hurting him. In that case "a scene" wouldn't begin to describe my response.

I decided to call her and let her know I would not come by (just to reduce whatever stress she had about trying to keep him away from me) so I called before I picked up my daughter from camp. She was gonig to bring my oldest home around 7, but he called later to say they started watching a movie late. He wanted to know if coming home around 8:30 was ok, and I told him, "Sure." Why put any more stress in his life, right?

It is two weeks since I have had any time with my youngest son. She is literally keeping him hostage while she waits for me to agree to her terms. In the past two weeks I suggested that the kids have extra time with her during her brother's visit, I suggested that they spend the full week there instead of returning for one night as in her first suggested schedule, and I suggested that they stay one extra night to see their uncle off on Monday. I let the two older kids go for their regular Wednesday night sleepover, and had my daughter clear it with her mother when she decided she didn't want to go back there this time. I have tried to be fair to the kids in this divorce no one except my unfaithful wife wanted. I'll keep trying.

Please pray for all of us, and for her and her boyfriend. There's a great need for prayer in this.

Thanks,

Joe
 
(((((Joe))))

I don't often come into the family and friends area cause I don't often have too much time to be on the puter (privacy issues where I live) - I am so very sorry that you are being put through so very much by your wife - I can only hope that all of your wifes inappropriate actions are being documented so as they can be used against her in court...

I am so very sorry for what your youngest is going through - I pray that he will be able to communicate with his C effectively so as that the cause of the 'behavioral problems' will be found...

I will be keeping all of your family in my prayers till this whole mess is sorted out...

I wish you the best,

TJ jeff
 
Jeff,

Thank you, especially for the prayers. That's our lifeline these days.

It's been 9 days since I have seen my son. I'll check with my lawyer today to learn if he has heard anything. He filed a motion for an expedited custody hearing.

In the meantime, my soon to be ex-wife canceled his counseling appointment. She said she would reschedule, so we'll see. I let the two older kids continue their regularly scheduled visits with her. I won't make them pawns in this.

This weekend was hard as it marked a week without seeing him. His grandmother hung up on me when I requested, "Just ask him to take the phone, please," on Saturday. I've been trying to help his brother and sister even more, since they've heard their mother telling him he "can be an only child."

A friend asked me if it's possible that he is an only child, i.e., does he have a different father? I may be kidding myself, but I think we are biologically related. That question had lurked in my mind a bit, but it makes no difference. He is my son whom I have known as my youngest and I am the man he knows as "Dad."

I still worry about his remark, "What if it's somebody who doesn't live here?" but that by itself isn't going to get him out of there. I brought his C up to date on all this when I took his sister to her appointment. She's the professional, well known and highly regarded locally by people I trust, including an MD in the family practice where we go, the C from the program the two older kids attended this winter, and my own T.

I'm doing what I can, and God will do the rest. Thank you all so much for the prayers.

Joe
 
I mentioned before (I think :) ) that I won't stop the kids from their regular visit with their mother on Wednesdays. Well, today both of the older ones decided they would go. Last week my daughter refused to go. And when I called to say goodnight, my 13 year old, bless his heart, got his younger brother on the phone. For the first time in 11 days, I heard my son's voice. :D :D :D

The tension that left my body was like water flowing out of a pitcher, leaving just a lightness, like air. I hope so much to see him soon, and even more to get him back home. I think I'll have a very different attitude about waking up the next time he comes to me at dawn saying, "Dad, it's time to get up. The son is up."

Thanks,

Joe
 
Joe,

I am so happy for you. I have been reading your posts the past few days and my heart really goes out to you and your family. I'll be keeping you and your children in my prayers. Stay strong. Sometimes the best source of strength and reassurance comes from children. Just one little hug, smile or 'I love you' can mean more to a person than anything else in the world. Bless you and I hope this post finds you well.
 
LostSpark,

Thank you. I am so very hopeful this morning that he will be coming back home soon. This is the kids' regular weekend to visit their mother, but even if he came home just overnight before getting back to the regular schedule, I would be so happy. I'll see his C today when I take his sister to her appointment and I'll ask about how I should help him ease back into being home when the time comes.

I hope it comes today.

Thanks,

Joe
 
I never come to friends and family, but I am glad I did today.

Joe, you are a kind, patient man and I wish you all the success with your kids that you deserve.

The rollercoaster ride will end, I assure you. Just be there with a smile to help them off the ride.

Peace,
James
 
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