A Collective Discussion of Therapists & Therapy

A Collective Discussion of Therapists & Therapy
M

Marc

Registrant
hDan, Thank you for a spectacular title for this new thread...

Please, please please!!! Post responses guys. I need help. I'll try to summarize as much as possible with bullet points.

Overview: I had a seriously downtrodden year within the past year starting with a motorcycle accident last August, progressing to a serious 'substance' abuse problem by January to include some very unsafe sexual acting out and ending with a severe staphylococcal infection.

Severely depressed once again (as if I ever haven't been?) I quit smoking, drinking, drugs, and sex and sought out a therapist. Now keep in mind that I am alternately both a controlling SOB and a scared, confused little boy when it comes to making decisions about myself.

  • A. Started Therapy March 12th this year for the fourth time in my life
  • B. Started 10mg Lexapro (Antidepressant) March 31st
  • C. I find myself falling back into bad behaviors
  • D. Quit medication (Side-effect of bruxism becomes to much) Now required to quit coffee as a response? Come on, gotta have 'some' vice
  • E. Quit therapy June 13th
How did I get from 'A' to 'E'? I saw this guy at least once a week from the beginning and as he mentioned in our final meeting last Friday, almost every time that I saw him (except for twice) I was in 'crisis' mode. He admittedly doesn't have a 'lot' of history of sexual abuse treatment though he claims to have some.

Additionally, I think that the bulk of my issues come more from the physical and emotional abuse from my dead alcoholic F%ckhead of a father than from the sexual abuse that I experienced at the hands of my cousin (though neither is particularly appealing to look at.)

I don't know if my therapist was good or not. He kept trying to 'drive home' the AA process which I think is a load of bunk for me! It also made me feel like he was trying to pawn me off. 'My paranoia', suspects that all he wants is my cash. On the other hand on Monday June 16th he'd left a message on my vmail at home saying that he'd thought about me a lot over the weekend and was concerned about the way I decided to abandon the whole process (Amazing how deathly depressing I can come across when I am deathly depressed.). He also said that he understood if I didn't want to continue with him at this point but that he offered that if I want to wcontinue to work with him the choice is mine and more importantly, he hopes that I will not give up on myself or therapy in general. This makes me think that maybe he is a good guy and really does have my best intersts at heart. :confused: I have to admit I am very jaded by the whole therapy process. I don't trust it but then hey, I don't really trust anyone! (No offense but my mind says that we all have ulterior motives while my heart says that is nonsense :confused: .)

I don't want to move from T to shining T throughout my life damnit!

Do I go back to him and give him another try. I think that he does have concern for me, which is important, and I just don't trust myself not to effectively determine whether he or some other therapist would be good for me.

I only know that I need help... as you can see from my avatar. No longer the happy banana. Instead, I feel like 'time is running out'.

I have perused the 'How to find a "good" therapist' docs from end to end. Finding a "good" therapist is not a problem. Accepting that someone wants to genuinely help me and has an ability to do so IS the problem.

Any insight that you have would be greatly appreciated. As a side note to Ken or any other T's out there, if I signed off on an interview with this or some other T, could you possibly contact him and evaluate him or suggest someway that someone could? I just don't have the talent and I will always be 'second-guessing' my decision. I need to get past that if I am going to progress.

Help! :(

P.S. Sorry this is so long winded.
 
Marc,

I found ways to overcome many challenges in my life, but the sexual abuse was too painful to handle on my own. The pain grew chronic. I began to cry uncontrollably every night. I could not pray without going into spasms of choking.

I did not know why this was happening. I had been completely resistant and skeptical of therapy for me. I thought it was fine for others.

Since then I have had 3 therapists, 2 psychiatrists, spent one night in a dismal ward of SouthBeach Psychiatric Center on lovely Staten Island. I also have seen assorted MDs for associated physical manifestations of being a victim of sexual abuse. That is a whole 'nother story.

In each case, I asked around, talked to some people who had been in therapy, asked to be guided and then rolled the dice.

All of my psychological/psychiatric treatment has been in community based or state funded sliding scale clinics. Strictly based on whoever was available on the day I called to start.

My only request was that the T be a man. Hard for me to talk about being raped with anyone, but nearly impossible with a woman--not too sure still why.

Therapist #1--young, hetero male. Relatively inexperienced. I cried a lot, got angry at him (really good for me) and developed a relationship of mutual good will. He was available to me for extra sessions when the revelations got too tough.

I saw him for about 3 years and made a bunch of progress. I got "unstuck" which is what I call that painful place I was in when I got desperate enough to try therapy.

Therapist #1--J. had a manic episode (?) while on vacation, spent a month in a mental hospital in another country and never returned to his practice. I spoke to him by phone briefly before he left. Got to learn a lot about how illness takes people away from me, and how I tend to blame myself.

Therapist #2 was at the Court Street Out Patient Clinic in Brooklyn NY. It's a state facility of last resort for mental illness. Once again the luck of the draw, only this time with enormous bureaucratic drag. He was great. A real advocate for me. Very practical--experienced in dealing with homeless, NYC street people. He got me to see a psychiatrist where I began taking AD meds for the first time--another real point of resistance.

I was unable to function in a normal life. I didn't know I was depressed--I thought I slept all the time because I was lazy!

T. #2 was a nice Italian hetero, bourgeois type from Staten Island. He was incredible--got me medical care I desperately needed (that's why I had to check into South Beach).

My medical condition required a treatment that causes severe depression--they would not let me begin the chemo until I was under psychiatrist care.

Once again, totally random based on a casual recommendation from a receptionist.
He's young, gay Hispanic guy. Completely incredible. He has monitored my meds and mental state with great care.

Adjusted the doses on a regular basis--recomended that I seek one on one therapy for the sexual abuse.

I followed his advice and now see Rick, at the same non-profit community based counselling center for lesbians, gay and TG here in Austin.

Yeah, you guessed it. Totally random choice because he subbed once for T. #1. He's a gay man who has led many coming out groups for men.

Turned out that was exactly the type of help I needed. He's the one who suggested I come here.

He's very kind and considerate, has a mild manner. The hour session flies by each week. We agreed in the beginning that we needed to focus on the sexual abuse.

I am also participating in group therapy with other gay men. It has put me in touch with decent, caring gay men.

I really needed to get in touch with guys like that. I am gay and associated being gay with all sorts of negative things: promiscuity, callous sexual practices, substance abuse; superficiality etc. etc. Ended up with lots of self hatred.

I now recognize that is a reaction to the sexual abuse--not to being gay. .

Talk about long-winded........

Marc, it seems to me that outside of the basic checking of references, asking around among friends and in the absence of any egregious behavior by the T, it is not nearly so important to me to choose the right T.

As my friends have told me, "Danny, your picker is broken." I make bad choices, especially in men.

The most important factor in my getting help is my willingness to seek and receive the care I need.
[/B]
YOU ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR IN YOUR THERAPY

Practice being as honest as you can; experiment with expressing your emotions; use the therapy space as a place of safety; set boundaries with your T. Check your motives.

Are you going to the T to get better or to have another failed relationship to blame your unhappiness on? Sorry if that seems tough. I would never ask anyone that. But it is the type of question that I have to ask myself.

As a victim I am trained to wait on someone else to fix me, to make me feel a certain way, to make choices by refusing to make a choice.

Get committed to your own recovery. Demand that those who agree to help you live up to their duty. Most of them will take great care with their responsibilities. Will you take on yours?

My good friend, Charlie, once told me that most of us just want to FEEL better; we don't want to GET better--because that's scary and difficult.

There are a ton of Ts out there. You can find one adequate to your needs. Then you can start focussing on bringing yourself to the table with honesty and determination. It's really your choice.

You've really asked a big question here. It has made me reflect on my good fortune in my therapy, and it has also allowed me to recognize my own qualities of willingness and perserverance.

So I wish you good fortune and the recognition of your wonderful qualities of resilience and willingness. Plus you write a hell of a poem.

"Let it begin with me...." Take a leave of absence from the debating society, give up the right to find fault with others as a substitute for focussing on yourself.

Not because it's the "good" or "right" thing, but because
IT'S WHAT WORKS! And we deserve what works...let the normal people settle for ersatz headshrinking. Get committed, get some help and get busy.

Please take anything useful in this and disregard the rest. If anything seems harsh, please overlook it if you can. This is the way it has been for me. Maybe it can help one of you.

Thanks, Marc.

Wishing us all peace and happiness,
 
Marc, I would take the posting that you wrote to us and give it to your therapist to read. Then discuss what you wrote and your issues around trust.

Therapists don't have the magic elixir to life. 90% of the progress you make with any therapist will be because of your efforts, your investment, your insights, your sweat. IMHO 9-10 weeks of weekly sessions is too early to evaluate a therapist.

Peace, Andrew
 
I f he doesn't have experience that is one thing, if he isn't helping you is another.

I would not see someone if it was not helping me.
 
Marc,

I don't have a lot of experience. I see the same T that my wife and I went to (and still go to) for marriage counseling. She's a clinical psychologist and her practice seems to be more couples and families than abuse victims. She did internship work in grief counseling. Before my parents divorced, when my mother first joined AA, we went to a family counselor a few times. That's my experience.

I read a post from Jeff (Zadok1) in this thread that made a world of difference to me. Here's part of what he said:

the bottom line is that male or female, the therapist is simply a guide. the burden of healing is on you. you have to do the work to recover. you alone. holding back, and lying will only slow that down. i think find someone who feels comfortable and understanding, and kind of look at them as asexual if you can.
Click to expand...
I was impressed by the point that I have to actually do the f***ing work to recover. Holding back and expecting the T to make me "feel better" wasn't going to get me much except bills. Things have gotten more difficult, but I feel like I'm actually making progress (just don't ask me where I'm going yet :) ). The thread is about choosing male/female therapist, but consider Jeff's point about finding someone "comfortable and understanding."

Oh, and congratulations on having the strength to ask for help.

HTH,

Joe
 
Originally posted by michael Joseph:
I f he doesn't have experience that is one thing, if he isn't helping you is another.

I would not see someone if it was not helping me.
Click to expand...
Marc:
Let me reinforce what Micheal is telling you here. He is dead on target, and is able to express it with suprisingly few words.
Personally. I wish tens of thousands of times I had could have known I had control of when I could walk instead of being further covertly sexualized during my very first attempt at recieving "theraputic" help at age 17.
You know what it is to be used, even if you don't know what it is to be helped, so use your own common God given sense.
Maintain C-O-N-T-R-O-L !! Walk out and look for someone else when ever you feel you need to, and analyize later. You can always go back.

{I am still amazed at how few words Micheal used to express this point here.}

quote: 'In this time of economic uncertainity, it is easy to see who is dedicated to providing health care, and who is chasing bucks.'

Tom S.
 
Marc you have received a lot of good advice here. I would agree that you take this thread to your therapist.

Danny also had a specific thing I want to reinforce with you.
As a victim I am trained to wait on someone else to fix me, to make me feel a certain way, to make choices by refusing to make a choice.

Get committed to your own recovery. Demand that those who agree to help you live up to their duty. Most of them will take great care with their responsibilities. Will you take on yours?

My good friend, Charlie, once told me that most of us just want to FEEL better; we don't want to GET better--because that's scary and difficult.
Click to expand...
Marc you have got to take the lead in your recovery. I have been in AA for 26 years and i have seen people come and go. Why do they leave? Because they were not committed to changing. We call them dried out drunks looking for a place to happen.

By taking the lead we establish within ourselves that we want to heal for us period.
 
Thank you to all of you who've contributed to this thread.

It is apparent that therapy is not to be taken lightly. My belief is that it could have the ability to hurt or to heal. It is NEVER simply innocuous.

My overwhelming desire to maintain some semblence of control in an otherwise out-of-control life is what has left me stuck. I still feel that I do not have the answer to my therapy questions but I do know that I am unable to go through this by myself. Here once again I find myself wishing in one hand and... you've all heard the rest.

I have decided to speak to my previous therapist once more. If only to more clearly define my expectations and most importantly determine if he is able to help me or I should look elsewhere.

When I first approached him as a therapist for me, I commented that I am committed to this process. No matter how depressed, impatient or unself-medicated I am or I become, I must not quit the journey. To quit is to die and as my mom often said, "You're a short time living and a long time dead." IMHO, I don't need to make it any shorter.

I don't know that this therapist will be the best for me. I have high expectations for myself and for him and I don't know that they are realistic or unrealistic. I only know that he has not been abusive. I think that he probably does have a good heart and for me that is important.

I will review with him some goals and expectations that I have of my self and of him. Boundaries for me need to be set and timelines established or I will continue to waffle in the wind and this is something that I can no longer afford.

Metaphorically speaking, the gun was too close to the hand this time. God help me if I hit this point again because no one else will. I know enough what questions will be asked and I know how to deflect them and still enable myself to exit stage left.

Sorry to be so dramatic but, I'm not kidding.

Confused about the mixed messaging? I know I am.
 
Marc,

It sounds like you have created a healthy positive
safe plan of action for yourself which will give you an opportunity to find your balance and balance in your therapy.

My T tries to help me find my own way. He will offer options but he leaves me in control of my decisions.

Now, I would think any good T would do that--unless of course you were going to do something illegal or imminently dangerous or something.

If you can find a T that specializes in working with male survivors so much the better. But to me the important thing with any health care worker is
that you know better than anyone what is wrong with you and you must be in charge of your own recovery your own way.

Take care friend.

Victor
 
Marc
My therapist was wonderful.

And I don't think that was entirely down to the luck of the draw.
He worked for the charity I now help at which provides fully qualified specialized therapy for adult survivors of SA - nothing else. So I was in with a chance before I started.
Unfortunately he got an excellent day job and had to give up his work with us.

The woman who founded the charity and runs it does the initial interview with all new clients, and on her intuition assigns them to one of the 7 or 8 therapists, and she appears to have an uncanny knack for getting that right. The dropout rate is very very small and the success rate is high.

The guy who saw me said at the very start that he had no answers, no cure. And I thought "what the f**k am I doing here then ?"
But he teased the answers out of me, and they're the ONLY answers that really work.

It was a partnership of trust that took a while to build, he trusted me to tell him everything, what happened and how I felt, as I was ready to do so.
I trusted him to not judge me, I trusted him to gently lead and encourage me down different avenues of thought until I discovered the answers for myself. And every one I found became a major step for me, I thought I was discovering and figuring things out for the very first time in history. I wasn't, many men have been there before me, but that feeling of getting there by my own intellect was so enpowering.

One of my friends who's in the group sessions with me was seeing this same guy for 8 years, and I said to him last week "can you ever remember Charlie actually telling you to do something or telling you something as a fact ?" - and he couldn't.
What he did was affirm our thoughts and ideas, he didn't actually say "no, you're wrong there" either. He say something like "Is there another way of looking at that ?" and I'd have to push myself to explore further.

I went into therapy with an open mind, I hadn't got a clue what to expect and my only expectation was that maybe I'd get some sort of relief from the pain I was in. At that time suicide was looking like an improvement, so my expectations were extremely low.

My experience inspired me to start training as a counsellor and I now work as a supporter for other survivors at the charity until I hopefully qualify in a few years time.

I realise that this isn't the experience everyone can expect, but a therapist with the correct training should have the structure around them to support them in their work, and ensure that bad / malpractice doesn't occur. Therapists should only work if they believe in what they do, the good financial rewards some earn are a bonus that I don't object to. ( Many of the therapist who work for this charity give their time )
But like any profession there are charlatans, and the only thing to then is walk away.

but before you do that tell him EXACTLY what you feel and fear, be brutally honest with yourself and tell him your deepest fears, explain the emotions behind your doubts.

He can only work with what he's given. A good therapist is nothing more that a tool in your hands, and you have to learn some basic skills to handle that tool. In time you'll become a craftsman.

Dave
 
Marc,

I don't know that this therapist will be the best for me. I have high expectations for myself and for him and I don't know that they are realistic or unrealistic. I only know that he has not been abusive. I think that he probably does have a good heart and for me that is important.
Click to expand...
I think what you're doing, taking your recovery into your own hands and your own plans, actively "taking back" your life, will be best for you.

Trust your gut. I learned never to trust myself, and I almost ruined my life, might have ended it. That distrust is part of the legacy of the sexual abuse, and it's got to go.

You prompted a lot of thinking about my own life with this thread. Thank you for that.

Joe
 
Damn that therapist!!! ;)

Well, I am going back to him. We've worked out some things.

First, He has to treat me like a parent/whatever ya wanna call it. He MUST call me out on things for now. MUST demand proof of what I tell him if he questions it (This was one of MY requests). I'm not a chronic liar, believe me. But I know how the 'game' is played unfortunately (Major was psych.) and I don't want a myself to play a 'game' with the therapist. I want to get better. I don't trust MYSELF enough to want to get better.

Second, I am typing up a contract between he and I that specifically states...

1) I will attend AT LEAST one AA, NA, SSA of my choice per week (I volunteered two, he says mandatory one.) Attendance to occur for 6 months. Went to my third AA meeting ever... today (A different place, though) and it wasn't as bad. :)

More to follow...
 
Great news Marc, it's a two way deal therapy - but there should only be one winner. ( although the therapist is allowed to go away feeling good as well )

Dave ;)
 
Marc:

I am glad that you recognize that you know how to play the game so to speak and that you need a father figure to kick your ass once in a while and make you totally accountable for you recovery.

My sponsor in AA is long dead now but he is still my sponsor cause he still kicks my ass and calls me out when I am not doing what I should or being who I should be.


You know my brother I think it is extremely useful to have someone to lean on and be your teacher and yes to kick you in the ass when you need it.

You are gonna make it my brother and there will be the joy of life in your eyes.

Your Canuck brother
 
Well,

He wasn't terribly 'enamored' of my contract. :rolleyes:

He felt that the contract should be about me more than anything. I of course felt that it should be about me and how he could help me.
(He also 'raked' me for not adhering to the requirement that I originally set forth to go to at least two meetings a week and not only did I change it in the contract but I only went once. That's 'another story though.)

The contract that I created is located here. It is in Word 97-2000 format.

He feels that the contract should set 'Minimums' not 'Maximums' on my rate of AA/NA etc..., keep in mind, this is not a legal contract nor is it meant to be.

My issue is that it feels like 'It's all about me' if it is 'all about me'. He has a point but it feels like there is an element of me giving away control. I don't know if that is part of my issues or not but I very much suspect it is. It's just hard for me not to 'require' something from him in the contract as well.

Any thoughts/feedback?

Thanks all.
 
Firstly, I am very sorry of all that has happened this past year. I can very much relate to that it sometimes does pour as it rains, although not with the same things as you of course. But this past year, it has been very crazy to me also. I think that you hit something hard when you say it is how to let yourself have someone to care of you and help you, not finding the good therapist. That is so much the truth I think. Because if you do not feel worth of the help, it does not matter if it is Freud himself who works with you, YOU will not let it work. It sounds like perhaps the last one was not right for you? If you are in 'crisis mode' each time you see him, did he really do anything good for you the week before? But it may be easier to go back at him, since he does already know your history, he knows your background, so it will not be like building a new relationship again. But what needs to be different is that you allow yourself to accept help, and allow yourself to feel you deserve it, or it does nothing. It is like here, all the good advice that is here with all these good people, it is of no meaning if a person can not accept it. I hope that you find something that works for you, whether it is this same person or another. You are a good and kind man, and you deserve to know that of yourself, and to feel better in your life. I will be thinking of good things for you.
 
Marc:

My antique computer will not connect with your contract.

But offhand I'd say that you are paying for his "help" so you can damn well require or at least expect something from him. If it's that important to you & he can't or won't comply, you can always find another T.

The only thing you have to be careful of is that what you are asking of him is not something that might hinder you're recovery, becuz we don't always know what's best for us.

But I think we know better than somebody who hardly knows us, even if they do have degrees & weekly or whatever sessions with us.

Well that's IMHOFWIW Marc.

It's great you have the courage & self-care & self-confidence to have a contract. WTG.

Victor
 
Marc,

Great job on the contract, guy!

For me, it was at the point in my therapy where I dared to question, to experience feelings of anger, disappointment and unhappiness directly with the guy opposite me in the 'quiet' space of the T room. (Not that kind of T')
It was at that point that I truly felt engaged in the process--instead of just trying to guess what I should do, or second guess what I had said or done.

For me, learning that it is possible for me to express my feelings, even the bad ones, openly with another man--and then have him come back and talk to me again the next week--was a big move for me.

It's then that I saw that 'running' was just one option out of many.

You've been on my mind, brother. Glad to hear from you and way to go, Marc! Good job. It's hard work but you're definitely worth it and more.


Your wolfless brother,
Looking for the pack..............................
 
Marc,
It seems reasonable that you would have expectations from your if he didnn't think that that would be haelpful, then he should explain why. WTG on going back, even if you later decide that a different T would work out better, it seems like it was good to go back this time, just so you could be sure that you were not running away from the process.

Ken
 
For Those Unable to View

Contract for Therapy


I ______________________________ the client promise with my signature to enter willingly into this contract with the following therapist ______________________________.

This contract obligates the client to no more than six months of an AA (Alcoholics Anonymous), NA (Narcotics Anonymous) or SAA (Sex Addicts Anonymous) or other acceptable supplemental chronic abuse program at a rate of at least once per week with no obligation to specific time, date or location.

Additionally, the client is obligated to not less than six months of therapy from the aforementioned therapist to be re-evaluated at the end of 6 months for continuance by agreement of both parties. (1)

Therapist must provide periodic assessment and evaluation of patient status at monthly intervals to patient. Therapist also agrees to facilitate in a timely manner supplemental testing into the clients psychological profile to include an MMPI, ADD/ADHD and/or other behavioral testing per consultation with patient and as accepted by patients insurance carrier.

General client career and personal goals should be defined by the forth month of consecutive therapy.


This contract is a Good Faith contract and while not legally binding should be treated with the same courtesy and intent. Both parties may make modifications to this contract only upon agreement at the time addendum is added.

Additionally, a presumption is made that both the client and the therapist are working collectively to facilitate corrective thinking and acceptable personal goals for the client.

Patient Name: ________________________________ Date: ___________
Therapist Name: ________________________________ Date: ___________
 
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