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- Thread starterindygal
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Hi Indygirl,
I always give people in your situation the same advice up front...before you do anything else, you need to take some time and really think about what you want out of your relationship. Relationships with CSA survivors can be extremely difficult, especially when the survivor begins his recovery. If you decide to try to stick it out with your boyfriend, you need to be totally aware of and comfortable with the reality that it will be a very tumultous and unstable time.
That said, the responsibility for recovery belongs with the survivor. It sounds like your boyfriend has not really begun his recovery. He may have tried, and failed, (and that happens to all of us so it is nothing to be ashamed of) but right now it sounds like he is not making progress.
To be perfectly honest, I think my first suggestion for you would be for the two of you to see a marriage counsellor. This is entirely a gut instinct on my part, but something in your post suggests to me that you feel very strongly about this man. I have no idea how you can go about getting him to do this, but maybe some of the other members might have some advice.
Finally, I want to thank you for caring. For a CSA survivor, any ally is a valuable ally, and by trying to help your boyfriend, you are helping us all. Whatever happens, you are a good person and I truly appreciate your compassion for your boyfriend. Thank you once again.
Nobby
I always give people in your situation the same advice up front...before you do anything else, you need to take some time and really think about what you want out of your relationship. Relationships with CSA survivors can be extremely difficult, especially when the survivor begins his recovery. If you decide to try to stick it out with your boyfriend, you need to be totally aware of and comfortable with the reality that it will be a very tumultous and unstable time.
That said, the responsibility for recovery belongs with the survivor. It sounds like your boyfriend has not really begun his recovery. He may have tried, and failed, (and that happens to all of us so it is nothing to be ashamed of) but right now it sounds like he is not making progress.
To be perfectly honest, I think my first suggestion for you would be for the two of you to see a marriage counsellor. This is entirely a gut instinct on my part, but something in your post suggests to me that you feel very strongly about this man. I have no idea how you can go about getting him to do this, but maybe some of the other members might have some advice.
Finally, I want to thank you for caring. For a CSA survivor, any ally is a valuable ally, and by trying to help your boyfriend, you are helping us all. Whatever happens, you are a good person and I truly appreciate your compassion for your boyfriend. Thank you once again.
Nobby
roadrunner
Registrant
indygal,
I haven't learned enough here to be more specific, but it seems to me that you guy may feel he is being pushed. That is, he is feeling the need to take steps that he is just not ready to contemplate yet. He is too afraid of failure and of discovering he really is as worthless and shameful as he feels. That's a real problem; no survivor can take these steps before he is ready.
Perhaps what he most needs to hear from you and see is that he isn't under this sort of pressure, and that you understand that he can't do or say things that he isn't ready for yet.
But this in turn will bring you right up against the big problem for partners of survivors: dealing with a situation where it's all about him. His timeline for moving forward, his pain, his issues, his fears, and so on. It can get pretty disempowering for the partner.
Nobby puts it quite well:
Much love,
Larry
I haven't learned enough here to be more specific, but it seems to me that you guy may feel he is being pushed. That is, he is feeling the need to take steps that he is just not ready to contemplate yet. He is too afraid of failure and of discovering he really is as worthless and shameful as he feels. That's a real problem; no survivor can take these steps before he is ready.
Perhaps what he most needs to hear from you and see is that he isn't under this sort of pressure, and that you understand that he can't do or say things that he isn't ready for yet.
But this in turn will bring you right up against the big problem for partners of survivors: dealing with a situation where it's all about him. His timeline for moving forward, his pain, his issues, his fears, and so on. It can get pretty disempowering for the partner.
Nobby puts it quite well:
Your title for this thread and some of your comments illustrate this quite vividly. Contrary to what you think, you haven't done anything wrong! You aren't contributing to the crisis. You are in a situation where everything you do seems to be wrong, but in fact the only one at fault is the person who abused him in the first place.
Much love,
Larry
Hi indygal,
I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say this:
You say that you guessed the truth about your friend and that he hasn't been willing to say more about it beyond not denying it; I can say that disclosure, and the details of the disclosure, is a MAJOR area where control is important to the survivor.
Think about it-- for many survivors, the only part about the abuse that IS under their control is the secret. Many survivors get very wrapped up in the shame, denial, etc. of the abuse-- some even denying to themselves that it was abuse-- that secret is a toxic thing but one that is very close to them, and scary to think of losing.
My point is that it's very common for survivors to withdraw, or to "feel pushed" for a while after disclosing-- even when they disclose voluntarily-- and I imagine that this is even more true for your friend.
The only direction you can push is away.
I think what Larry's saying to you about not asking your friend for more than he can handle is good advice-- and at the moment it may be that the best way to communicate that to him is to respect his wish for privacy. Once he has a sense that you will honor his boundaries about what he's ready to share (and I'm not saying you don't; just that this is a fear he may have) it might be easier to start a conversation.
SAR
I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say this:
What part is negative? What control do you mean?
You say that you guessed the truth about your friend and that he hasn't been willing to say more about it beyond not denying it; I can say that disclosure, and the details of the disclosure, is a MAJOR area where control is important to the survivor.
Think about it-- for many survivors, the only part about the abuse that IS under their control is the secret. Many survivors get very wrapped up in the shame, denial, etc. of the abuse-- some even denying to themselves that it was abuse-- that secret is a toxic thing but one that is very close to them, and scary to think of losing.
My point is that it's very common for survivors to withdraw, or to "feel pushed" for a while after disclosing-- even when they disclose voluntarily-- and I imagine that this is even more true for your friend.
The only direction you can push is away.
I think what Larry's saying to you about not asking your friend for more than he can handle is good advice-- and at the moment it may be that the best way to communicate that to him is to respect his wish for privacy. Once he has a sense that you will honor his boundaries about what he's ready to share (and I'm not saying you don't; just that this is a fear he may have) it might be easier to start a conversation.
SAR
Indygal:
As the best friend to a survivor, I know what your frustration and confusion is. So far, you are hearing good advise here. The fact is, you do have to decide what you can and cannot handle, and what you want and don't want. When it comes to being with your friend, it can be draining. One of the many things I have learned is that it's not always me. Lots of little things that I would interpret as rejection (even innocent things like offering to do a favor for him) really had nothing to do with me. These were things that I would interpret as pushing me away. And it took me a while to learn that my friend just wasn't good at accepting help. He wanted to be independent, not to ever appear vulnerable to anyone, to be in his comfort zone, and to take care of himself. When I finally realized these things were about him wanting to feel safe and his comfort, I stopped being hurt.
The trust, the comfort, the safety that your friend and my friend all need---it doesn't happen over night. And it's just not enough to say "you're safe with me" or 'trust me'. These are things that are earned and shown in time. They don't need to be said. What I find interesting here is that you said he didn't disclose to you--you figured it out and he didn't deny it. Which means to me that he still really hasn't discussed it with you, and, therefore, he is still not comfortable discussing it with you. if and when he wants to, he will. He may even feel violated by your efforts to talk about it, if you persist.
Finally, there's more to looking at this than just from the outside in. Look at it from the inside out--his inside to the out. And you will learn that he not only will question his trust in you, but he will always question his trust in himself. That is, he will question whether he has made the right decisions. And whether he can trust himself to protect himself. There is much self-doubt that takes place in his mind, along with the need to feel deserving of something and someone good in his life. So when he pushes you away he is often believing that--not only is he protecting himself from you--but also protecting you from him.
Don't pressure him. He needs to know that you do not want something he doesn't want to give. He will share what he wants to share, when and if he is ready to share. Don't pressure him. It's enough for him to know that you are there. And what's even more important as well is that you continue to love and respect and treat him the same way as before you knew. Don't try to fix him. He doesn't want you to fix him. He doesn't want you to change him. He just wants you to accept him. If you can do that and respect his boundaries, your relationship will improve.
Good luck. Feel free to PM me if you would like to chat more.
As the best friend to a survivor, I know what your frustration and confusion is. So far, you are hearing good advise here. The fact is, you do have to decide what you can and cannot handle, and what you want and don't want. When it comes to being with your friend, it can be draining. One of the many things I have learned is that it's not always me. Lots of little things that I would interpret as rejection (even innocent things like offering to do a favor for him) really had nothing to do with me. These were things that I would interpret as pushing me away. And it took me a while to learn that my friend just wasn't good at accepting help. He wanted to be independent, not to ever appear vulnerable to anyone, to be in his comfort zone, and to take care of himself. When I finally realized these things were about him wanting to feel safe and his comfort, I stopped being hurt.
The trust, the comfort, the safety that your friend and my friend all need---it doesn't happen over night. And it's just not enough to say "you're safe with me" or 'trust me'. These are things that are earned and shown in time. They don't need to be said. What I find interesting here is that you said he didn't disclose to you--you figured it out and he didn't deny it. Which means to me that he still really hasn't discussed it with you, and, therefore, he is still not comfortable discussing it with you. if and when he wants to, he will. He may even feel violated by your efforts to talk about it, if you persist.
Finally, there's more to looking at this than just from the outside in. Look at it from the inside out--his inside to the out. And you will learn that he not only will question his trust in you, but he will always question his trust in himself. That is, he will question whether he has made the right decisions. And whether he can trust himself to protect himself. There is much self-doubt that takes place in his mind, along with the need to feel deserving of something and someone good in his life. So when he pushes you away he is often believing that--not only is he protecting himself from you--but also protecting you from him.
Don't pressure him. He needs to know that you do not want something he doesn't want to give. He will share what he wants to share, when and if he is ready to share. Don't pressure him. It's enough for him to know that you are there. And what's even more important as well is that you continue to love and respect and treat him the same way as before you knew. Don't try to fix him. He doesn't want you to fix him. He doesn't want you to change him. He just wants you to accept him. If you can do that and respect his boundaries, your relationship will improve.
Good luck. Feel free to PM me if you would like to chat more.
Indy,
I have done some editing to your last post. Please re-read what you have written above, because I think you have hit on something here. All the things you said above are things that you need to communicate to your boyfriend somehow. I have no idea how you can do it, but I think you have made your feelings and position very clear, and if you are this serious about this guy, he needs to know that you feel this way.
Just be careful though, because if you express your feelings to him, you will be left very vulnerable. There is a real possibility that he will simply blow you off. Make sure that if you do decide to speak to him about your feelings, that you have a support system in place in case the discussion goes badly, either a friend you can call, a relaxation technique, a spa, or whatever.
Nobby
Iwanttohelphim
Registrant
This relates to his inner life. It is a boundary violation for you to demand he reveal something he does not wish to reveal. Even in "normal, healthy" relationships, this boundary exists. This is one place where you have to make a descision what you can and can not handle.
Revealing health status issues which affect the partner, either in terms of their own health or the possibility of careing for a physically impaired person over the long term, is not the same thing as revealing one's inner life or past. The survivor does not "need" someone to take care of them.
Of course not. How could you have? It's not your fault. You tried to do the best with what you had at the time. You care.
Thats why they are control issues who has the right to control a persons destiny? Who has the right to control how a person lives, what they say, feel, or think? We all have the same one sided control over our own lives. You won't ever forget, but that is not the same as dwelling on it or pushing him or acting on what you know. I think we all get caught up in making their issues our own- because we love them. Because a trapped human soul is something no one wants to see happen to another.But we can only control ourselves.
No. you should not appologize for guessing or caring. Of course you are distraught and upset. It is both distressing and upsetting.
Relationships are about a lot more than what you talked about. Those things that you mentioned are by-products that result from a solid base of trust and consistant action in the direction of good boundaries (respect), and supporting the partner in getting their own needs met while meeting our own needs. As an SO of a survivor, I learned A LOT about the real meaning of relationships and what it takes to get to openness and two-way communication. Those are things you are feeling injured that you don't have because you don't actually have what underpins them.
It hurts like hell to find out that's true. I am still reeling from that 6 months later.
this fits him to a "T" !!
He didn't want my involvement in helping him in his life, he told me so, many times. He would thank me politely and I'd let it drop until something else might come up. I'm just a helpful person - from the country, was raised that way. People would always help each other out - there's actually been probably very little, if anything, I'd ever offered to do for him I wouldn't do for anyone else. I don't interfere, not like that, just let people know if I can do such and such, let me know. It's too bad the world has become so messed up this is looked upon as being unusual![/quote]
This has nothing to do with the world. This has to do with HIM. It has to do with what happens to most, if not all, survivors. It is one of the biggest trajedies in terms of obsticals to recovery. The survivor can not disclose, can not talk about it until he can. And it is not about you or who you are or what the world is. It is him. There is too much shame.
I know the feeling and my heart is with you. But is he REALLY the BEST thing? Why? Maybe it is true. I can say for sure my survivor is one of the best experiences I have had- but that has to do with me and how I changed as a person dealing with his issues. Not the time we spent together. I can only say that after almost a year of doing recovery for myself from being in a relationship with him. Not the fact that he is off somewhere, just like yours and wont come home because he blames me. I need a partner who I know will be around for me.
You said you knew what you wanted out of the relationship and then after you found out, you felt betrayed. What did you want out of the relationship? Now that you know he is a survivor, can you get that? Its ok to mourn it if you cant.
You are not alone in this.
You can make every descision with out having any communication with him. The choices should be for you, based on what is good for you and what you need. Try to talk with a counsellor about some of this. It might help to sort some of this out.
It is very normal to feel "duped", because you thought you were making choices based on shared information. But you were not. It's totally normal. I went through it too.
That is my survivor and I too.
I used to think that too. But the truth is. This takes time and you have all the time you need. Rushing things is the worst thing you can do...time is your friend right now. Distance is your friend right now. I know it does not feel that way now, but it is.
There is nothing you could have done for him. Trust me, with a survivor, you will never ever get it right - not until they are in recovery. A survivor will make it all your fault, blame the world, blame everyone around them and act out in a lot of ways. They will come up with a lot of emotional and verbal abuse, if not physical abuse (even if it is "just" pushing furniture in a rage) just to keep things distracting from the real issue- his being a survivor. You could not have done anything. Until he wants recovery, you will either be treated as a distant aquaintance for whom he has little respect and /or his parent.
The best thing to do is to get yourself into counselling to answer the question, why you wanted to be in a relationship with someone who there was no intimacy with, no real honesty and no trust....you knew it all along, otherwise you wouldn't have looked for a reason behind the problems. That might help you to sort out what this really means to you and how you can handle the situation so it doesn't hurt you. You can only be of service from a position of strength....
Indygal-
I am so sorry for my delayed response. I was out of town and just got back to seeing the board. I apologize as well if anything I said upset you because it was never my intent to do that. I only hoped to offer some insight. Like you, all of the lessons I learned had already come with disclaimers from my friend. In other words, he would say, trust me, this is how it has to be. If you want to be my friend, this is what I need. And when he would tell me whatever it was, it didnt make sense, it would be hard to reconcile with what you and I know as a normal relationship (whatever normal is). I finally saw the lighthe has had is whole life to think about and learn of himself, and what works for him and what doesnt. he was right. Who are we to decide what should work for them and impose our expectations on them? I am infinitely proud of him for the honesty he shared with me, and for standing his ground. Because now, we are in a great place. I cant imagine my life without him in it, and we share so much fun, laughter, and just day to day life together. I couldnt ask for a better friend and confidant. And I know the feeling is mutual. He doesnt have to say it. Its in his actions.
I think many would agree that a relationship of any kind with a survivor is a struggle. I am sorry for you that your friend and you are going to be separated by circumstances and may not be able to resolve things before you part. I want to share one more thought with youand I hope it helps. I think that one thing key to a survivor is fitting in to the rest of the world. They dont always feel like everyone else because of the guilt and the shame they carry with the secret some psycho burdened them with. And they have a difficult time believing and even accepting that they are entitled to and deserve all of the good things you and I want to share with them. Its just not compatible with their programming. Sothe thing is.. now you know what he considers to be his biggest shame and the worst thing about himself. You dont need the details, what does it serve to know the details? Even I dont know the details of my friends abuse, after disclosing to me over 6 years agoI STILL do not know. I cant imagine even thinking of him telling me the details. He shouldnt have to relive it in a discussion, and I think it would overwhelm me. And while I may sometimes be curious, it is irrelevant to our relationship and moving forward. It doesnt define him and it will not change how I treat him. My friend I think now has a comfort level that those details and the abuse dont matter to me in the sense that I accept him and love him unconditionally regardless. So he knows he doesnt have to feel ashamed anymore by my knowing. I meanwhen he first disclosedit created a distance because of his fear of my knowing his shame. But by showing him the same friendship and more than before, we have grown and sees he can be accepted and loved, and deserves it. We do normal things, we tease each other (his sense of humor is like no other!!!), we travel together, we shop together, run errands, etcwhatever. We do not, however, have sex together. The rest of our friends and family have no freakin clue and think we must be sleeping together. To everyone who meets us, they think we are a couple despite all of our insisting denials of anything more than friends. And as he prefers not to dwell on the past, we dont discuss the abuse unless he mentions himself. Id like to think that he feels the most normal and the most himself with me. He can be and show me anything and everything, because basically, after telling me his worst fear for which you he felt guilt and shame and expected me to run away from, he got the exact opposite reaction. I hope he knows there is nothing he can do that would drive me to abandon him. And one thing I know that makes him unique in my life ishe is the one person in the world who doesnt ever make me mad, or blow up in anger. We never fight like other couples do. He is a prince.
When it comes to your friend, you are in the opposite situation. He has not yet found the comfort to tell you. And perhaps he has never told anyone either. And while your attempts to provide compassion, and understanding, and emotional support are amazing, they are not what he wants or needs. I suspect these things are overwhelming to him even more so because he has not disclosed to you himself. He had a secret. Its out, and he is feeling still ashamed by it. He is probably not yet comfortable with your knowledge of it, much less your acceptance of it and I think the more you dwell on it or insist on trying to get him to heal, the more distance you are going to create between you. He has to want to heal. and its not as easy as an overnight cure, sadly.
I have one final suggestion for yousince time is not on your side with your traveling awaysend him a simple, SHORT email or note that you leave at the door without seeing him. Literally, tape it to the door and go. Simple tell him you are sorry but you have never intended to hurt him. You understand that he may need his space and privacy. And that you are there for him if he ever wants to talk or be your friend. And you are just going to have to leave it at that. I know you are worried about his state of mind and I am too from what you say. But you cannot force him to accept your help.
Good luck to you both and I am really sorry for everything you are going through. You can PM if you like and we can chat further. Hang in there.
Cupcake
I am so sorry for my delayed response. I was out of town and just got back to seeing the board. I apologize as well if anything I said upset you because it was never my intent to do that. I only hoped to offer some insight. Like you, all of the lessons I learned had already come with disclaimers from my friend. In other words, he would say, trust me, this is how it has to be. If you want to be my friend, this is what I need. And when he would tell me whatever it was, it didnt make sense, it would be hard to reconcile with what you and I know as a normal relationship (whatever normal is). I finally saw the lighthe has had is whole life to think about and learn of himself, and what works for him and what doesnt. he was right. Who are we to decide what should work for them and impose our expectations on them? I am infinitely proud of him for the honesty he shared with me, and for standing his ground. Because now, we are in a great place. I cant imagine my life without him in it, and we share so much fun, laughter, and just day to day life together. I couldnt ask for a better friend and confidant. And I know the feeling is mutual. He doesnt have to say it. Its in his actions.
I think many would agree that a relationship of any kind with a survivor is a struggle. I am sorry for you that your friend and you are going to be separated by circumstances and may not be able to resolve things before you part. I want to share one more thought with youand I hope it helps. I think that one thing key to a survivor is fitting in to the rest of the world. They dont always feel like everyone else because of the guilt and the shame they carry with the secret some psycho burdened them with. And they have a difficult time believing and even accepting that they are entitled to and deserve all of the good things you and I want to share with them. Its just not compatible with their programming. Sothe thing is.. now you know what he considers to be his biggest shame and the worst thing about himself. You dont need the details, what does it serve to know the details? Even I dont know the details of my friends abuse, after disclosing to me over 6 years agoI STILL do not know. I cant imagine even thinking of him telling me the details. He shouldnt have to relive it in a discussion, and I think it would overwhelm me. And while I may sometimes be curious, it is irrelevant to our relationship and moving forward. It doesnt define him and it will not change how I treat him. My friend I think now has a comfort level that those details and the abuse dont matter to me in the sense that I accept him and love him unconditionally regardless. So he knows he doesnt have to feel ashamed anymore by my knowing. I meanwhen he first disclosedit created a distance because of his fear of my knowing his shame. But by showing him the same friendship and more than before, we have grown and sees he can be accepted and loved, and deserves it. We do normal things, we tease each other (his sense of humor is like no other!!!), we travel together, we shop together, run errands, etcwhatever. We do not, however, have sex together. The rest of our friends and family have no freakin clue and think we must be sleeping together. To everyone who meets us, they think we are a couple despite all of our insisting denials of anything more than friends. And as he prefers not to dwell on the past, we dont discuss the abuse unless he mentions himself. Id like to think that he feels the most normal and the most himself with me. He can be and show me anything and everything, because basically, after telling me his worst fear for which you he felt guilt and shame and expected me to run away from, he got the exact opposite reaction. I hope he knows there is nothing he can do that would drive me to abandon him. And one thing I know that makes him unique in my life ishe is the one person in the world who doesnt ever make me mad, or blow up in anger. We never fight like other couples do. He is a prince.
When it comes to your friend, you are in the opposite situation. He has not yet found the comfort to tell you. And perhaps he has never told anyone either. And while your attempts to provide compassion, and understanding, and emotional support are amazing, they are not what he wants or needs. I suspect these things are overwhelming to him even more so because he has not disclosed to you himself. He had a secret. Its out, and he is feeling still ashamed by it. He is probably not yet comfortable with your knowledge of it, much less your acceptance of it and I think the more you dwell on it or insist on trying to get him to heal, the more distance you are going to create between you. He has to want to heal. and its not as easy as an overnight cure, sadly.
I have one final suggestion for yousince time is not on your side with your traveling awaysend him a simple, SHORT email or note that you leave at the door without seeing him. Literally, tape it to the door and go. Simple tell him you are sorry but you have never intended to hurt him. You understand that he may need his space and privacy. And that you are there for him if he ever wants to talk or be your friend. And you are just going to have to leave it at that. I know you are worried about his state of mind and I am too from what you say. But you cannot force him to accept your help.
Good luck to you both and I am really sorry for everything you are going through. You can PM if you like and we can chat further. Hang in there.
Cupcake
Iwanttohelphim
Registrant
Cupcake,
WOW.
Thank you.
WOW.
Thank you.