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- Thread starterLoneWolfX
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I'm not sure what you're expecting to get from this. But, if you believe that it will help...go for it.
You're right, in that sometimes if you see things written down, it will help to separate the facts from the emotions.
I don't think it's a good idea though if you don't have a good therapist who specializes in csa. Do you see a therapist now? Have you told him/her what happened and what you're planning to do?
Going by what you're post said. I think that you might be thankful that you were "caught". If you had gotten away with it...who knows how many others "victims" you would have to deal with. We all know the "theory" of how many victims there are. What we don't know is how many people were victimized by the same person.
I myself tried to coerce a neighbor kid. He refused, and we went back to playing. If I were successful...who knows? The only thing that I can do to rationalize it is that at the time I thought it was normal. Maybe you thought the same way ?
I really don't mean to be harsh, just my thoughts. I do wish the best for you in your recovery.
Greg
You're right, in that sometimes if you see things written down, it will help to separate the facts from the emotions.
I don't think it's a good idea though if you don't have a good therapist who specializes in csa. Do you see a therapist now? Have you told him/her what happened and what you're planning to do?
Going by what you're post said. I think that you might be thankful that you were "caught". If you had gotten away with it...who knows how many others "victims" you would have to deal with. We all know the "theory" of how many victims there are. What we don't know is how many people were victimized by the same person.
I myself tried to coerce a neighbor kid. He refused, and we went back to playing. If I were successful...who knows? The only thing that I can do to rationalize it is that at the time I thought it was normal. Maybe you thought the same way ?
I really don't mean to be harsh, just my thoughts. I do wish the best for you in your recovery.
Greg
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It's probibly not a good idea if you're not in a good place, it may act as a "pile on" of the toxic guilt that you're feeling, and you don't need that. I say toxic because you are already long sorry that you did it, you've invested a lifetime of punishing yourself for it, and you haven't shown that poor boy any mercy for what was done to him or allowed it as evidence as a contributing factor in his case. Had this boy that you condemn been anyone else besides you, you wouldn't be able to witness any further punishing of him.
What is your end goal here?
Are you looking for reasons & excuses to further punish the broken & abused boy for acting out the abuse that was done to him?
Or are you looking to get to the place where you can finally forgive the boy that you were? To forgive him for not being able understand what was being done to him, and the chaos it would bring to him? To forgive him for not having the power or knowledge to stop it or change what happened?
You (as does most of us) unmercifully judge our child selves with our adult mind & reasoning. we don't forgive ourselves for things that we could easily forgive others, we refuse to recognize the valid evidence of the extenuating circumstances that came into play that had power & control of the decisions made as broken & abused boys at the time.
If that poor boy had anyone else's name & face, you'd had long forgiven him.
It's not too late to forgive him, he's still needs it to finally be let free to heal and to enjoy the valuable life that he still has.
What is your end goal here?
Are you looking for reasons & excuses to further punish the broken & abused boy for acting out the abuse that was done to him?
Or are you looking to get to the place where you can finally forgive the boy that you were? To forgive him for not being able understand what was being done to him, and the chaos it would bring to him? To forgive him for not having the power or knowledge to stop it or change what happened?
You (as does most of us) unmercifully judge our child selves with our adult mind & reasoning. we don't forgive ourselves for things that we could easily forgive others, we refuse to recognize the valid evidence of the extenuating circumstances that came into play that had power & control of the decisions made as broken & abused boys at the time.
If that poor boy had anyone else's name & face, you'd had long forgiven him.
It's not too late to forgive him, he's still needs it to finally be let free to heal and to enjoy the valuable life that he still has.
I agree with Greg and George. Please make sure you are working with a therapist who specializes in csa because there is a risk of (un)intentionally reintroducing the trauma. Make sure you’ve done some preparatory work with your T beforehand.
Even though this is my quick take on the situation, I’ve been known to research what happened by going through boxes of journals I kept as a teenager, listening to specific songs, using Google Earth, etc. to revisit and reclaim. I considered it taking a vaccine—small doses of the pathogen that aren’t large or strong enough to cause the flu, but effective at inducing an immune response. It’s a fine line to walk-and difficult to follow.
In your case, you seem to be gong all the way back to something adjudicated to a degree in court. Assuming the case file is not sealed (it probably is), you are going right to an undiluted, unfiltered source of pain and anguish for yourself-and another kid. I fear that is too strong of a drink to take.
I took a couple of “pure grain alcohol” shots once regarding my experience. The result wasn’t worth the aftermath.
Will
Even though this is my quick take on the situation, I’ve been known to research what happened by going through boxes of journals I kept as a teenager, listening to specific songs, using Google Earth, etc. to revisit and reclaim. I considered it taking a vaccine—small doses of the pathogen that aren’t large or strong enough to cause the flu, but effective at inducing an immune response. It’s a fine line to walk-and difficult to follow.
In your case, you seem to be gong all the way back to something adjudicated to a degree in court. Assuming the case file is not sealed (it probably is), you are going right to an undiluted, unfiltered source of pain and anguish for yourself-and another kid. I fear that is too strong of a drink to take.
I took a couple of “pure grain alcohol” shots once regarding my experience. The result wasn’t worth the aftermath.
Will
I'm in the mood for another long post (((((LWx)))))) I am very moved by your difficult work, and am also very worried. I know how being with so many who understand, opens the floodgate of memories and feelings. This is a wonderful place, after it can be processed. I went through months of your beginnings, so recently. It's very fresh, and please don't think I'm beyond my needs, my caring is work for me too. I need to write this, this morning. It's for me too, we have to do our work.
I hope you see the posts of our brothers encouraging you to be active with your therapist. Let him/her know your here, all you think, and any reactions, physical too. That last, the physical, it's very important to learn to pay attention to those. I've started that this past summer and am learning to recognize when I may be going to some extreme. Tension, sometimes extreme builds for me, I sometimes get forehead headaches. The tapping, hugging, grounding and meditating myself down are all things I learned through therapy, here and reading.
Take breaks to be present and be good to yourself along the journey.
My take about pursuing the transcript, and like Suwanee notes, will probably lead to them being closed. I think it's important to note, like Greg then George and any of us, that the re-traumatizing that will occur needs to be looked at. The motivation to hurt ourselves, to punish that younger self (and let's look at that younger self in a minute) will be too visceral an experience in my opinion. There's every reason to look at the dissociation you're experiencing from reliving, and working on the life of your younger self to now. That dissociation is something I'm hoping therapy has explored with you? I've only begun it recently, and see very clearly how important it is. However, I had no idea just how important until recently. I was clueless, and dismissive of my dissociation. I didn't care, because I didn't know. Knowledge truly is power.
I have to say, I've noticed myself more than ever since I recognized what triggers my dissociation, and what that is for me. It's a big step for me, and I can see that need in your writing. I'm projecting, I admit it. That, for me, is an attempt to bring you forward to the need, if you can see that you may need this work too? I tiptoe with these things, hoping to avoid sidetracking your way, and not create a tone that seems intent on knowing all, being all. Because, by no means do I have that personality, I have to deal with self esteem at every step. I doubt myself... Ok... stopping that.
The younger self in me have become parts I'm seeing and exploring to the beginning of my first loss in life's journey to be a self assured, stand up for myself, validated person. I had to go to age 3, where I have very short glimpses of myself. I was constantly alone, I don't see many people, certainly not my parents. I've gotten clues from my mother that I was alone, and left to cry as a baby. Something that some idiot Specialist MD was teaching parents back in then? I was not given attachment, nor the ability to attune. I have developed my sense of attunement, but it includes a deep hyper vigilance, the deep fear of perceived threats, real or imagined. The attachment, a failure of my parents to let me connect to my care provider, to know I'm cared for, loved, attached, cause/ed/s me endless pain. I don't feel loved when I'm told "I love you". I hear it, but I don't feel it. I just drop it... maybe not believing, or inside I'm crying, why, what is lovable about me? I'm nothing. That's a pain that goes back to my 3 year old to birth. I am nurturing that 3 year old with imagination now, and I've added playmates of 4,6 of me. They're together, playing, seeing a care giver like I can imagine her to be, and giving love, attention, play, and the nurturing that I perceive is good and kind. I do the same for my kids, so I'm an example for my own. However, I'm not in this imagination as giving myself care. Like I noted, I don't feel it, accept it. I'm working to let that earliest me learn it, then I'm going to draw on what I built with my earliest me. I can imagine this seems odd? It's therapy that's been built for me, with the help of my therapist, by me.
I'm also working on my other parts, my other child selves. I have them all in this nurturing state, their place, their awesome spaces. Each a room for me to visit, where they can come and go, visit the youngers, amongst themselves or whatever. The rooms are of my imagination and contain everything, anything will appear as I want. I am in a world with Mrs. Weasley of Harry Potter fame. I set this up intentionally and because I have come to regard the character of Mrs. Weasley as an ideal mother. Now she's my surrogate.
I prepared a lot of safety before I started and do any of the above. I have a way of taking on small chunks of my traumas. My many haunting memories. My what if it hadn't been, wishing on a star, please God stop this hell, memories. My parts, are not processing those, they're waiting for me to do that. They're safe, they're allowed to be angry, happy, sad, and do what a young person does. I'm just watching. I don't have to fully interact, but they, and I know we're present in my imagination. If you've studied how this works, it's much easier to understand. I can imagine many, don't want to tap their imagination. This all might seem too strange, too weird. To me, it's inspiring me to heal. Beyond any therapy I've ever done, I am going to nurture, to love my younger selves and cry all the way doing it. It's my path, my journey, I share it to give ideas, hope, to express my gratitude that I can see a path.
Dear brother/s, you're all helping me so much...
Now I've done it, I can barely see the screen through tears...
Best wishes.
I hope you see the posts of our brothers encouraging you to be active with your therapist. Let him/her know your here, all you think, and any reactions, physical too. That last, the physical, it's very important to learn to pay attention to those. I've started that this past summer and am learning to recognize when I may be going to some extreme. Tension, sometimes extreme builds for me, I sometimes get forehead headaches. The tapping, hugging, grounding and meditating myself down are all things I learned through therapy, here and reading.
Take breaks to be present and be good to yourself along the journey.
My take about pursuing the transcript, and like Suwanee notes, will probably lead to them being closed. I think it's important to note, like Greg then George and any of us, that the re-traumatizing that will occur needs to be looked at. The motivation to hurt ourselves, to punish that younger self (and let's look at that younger self in a minute) will be too visceral an experience in my opinion. There's every reason to look at the dissociation you're experiencing from reliving, and working on the life of your younger self to now. That dissociation is something I'm hoping therapy has explored with you? I've only begun it recently, and see very clearly how important it is. However, I had no idea just how important until recently. I was clueless, and dismissive of my dissociation. I didn't care, because I didn't know. Knowledge truly is power.
I have to say, I've noticed myself more than ever since I recognized what triggers my dissociation, and what that is for me. It's a big step for me, and I can see that need in your writing. I'm projecting, I admit it. That, for me, is an attempt to bring you forward to the need, if you can see that you may need this work too? I tiptoe with these things, hoping to avoid sidetracking your way, and not create a tone that seems intent on knowing all, being all. Because, by no means do I have that personality, I have to deal with self esteem at every step. I doubt myself... Ok... stopping that.
The younger self in me have become parts I'm seeing and exploring to the beginning of my first loss in life's journey to be a self assured, stand up for myself, validated person. I had to go to age 3, where I have very short glimpses of myself. I was constantly alone, I don't see many people, certainly not my parents. I've gotten clues from my mother that I was alone, and left to cry as a baby. Something that some idiot Specialist MD was teaching parents back in then? I was not given attachment, nor the ability to attune. I have developed my sense of attunement, but it includes a deep hyper vigilance, the deep fear of perceived threats, real or imagined. The attachment, a failure of my parents to let me connect to my care provider, to know I'm cared for, loved, attached, cause/ed/s me endless pain. I don't feel loved when I'm told "I love you". I hear it, but I don't feel it. I just drop it... maybe not believing, or inside I'm crying, why, what is lovable about me? I'm nothing. That's a pain that goes back to my 3 year old to birth. I am nurturing that 3 year old with imagination now, and I've added playmates of 4,6 of me. They're together, playing, seeing a care giver like I can imagine her to be, and giving love, attention, play, and the nurturing that I perceive is good and kind. I do the same for my kids, so I'm an example for my own. However, I'm not in this imagination as giving myself care. Like I noted, I don't feel it, accept it. I'm working to let that earliest me learn it, then I'm going to draw on what I built with my earliest me. I can imagine this seems odd? It's therapy that's been built for me, with the help of my therapist, by me.
I'm also working on my other parts, my other child selves. I have them all in this nurturing state, their place, their awesome spaces. Each a room for me to visit, where they can come and go, visit the youngers, amongst themselves or whatever. The rooms are of my imagination and contain everything, anything will appear as I want. I am in a world with Mrs. Weasley of Harry Potter fame. I set this up intentionally and because I have come to regard the character of Mrs. Weasley as an ideal mother. Now she's my surrogate.
I prepared a lot of safety before I started and do any of the above. I have a way of taking on small chunks of my traumas. My many haunting memories. My what if it hadn't been, wishing on a star, please God stop this hell, memories. My parts, are not processing those, they're waiting for me to do that. They're safe, they're allowed to be angry, happy, sad, and do what a young person does. I'm just watching. I don't have to fully interact, but they, and I know we're present in my imagination. If you've studied how this works, it's much easier to understand. I can imagine many, don't want to tap their imagination. This all might seem too strange, too weird. To me, it's inspiring me to heal. Beyond any therapy I've ever done, I am going to nurture, to love my younger selves and cry all the way doing it. It's my path, my journey, I share it to give ideas, hope, to express my gratitude that I can see a path.
Dear brother/s, you're all helping me so much...
Now I've done it, I can barely see the screen through tears...
Best wishes.
I've been thinking about your post. You didn't say how old you were when this happened, but you did mention that "the court" decided it was just kids being kids. I don't know if "the court" is the most reliable source.
You also didn't mention if you were abused before this incident.
Are you sure that this is your guilt to own? Only a suggestion (from my own experience), but try to keep the emotions and the facts separate. With me, trying to do both just made it that much harder to process. Just a thought.
Have you thought about contacting the person after and only after you've processed this? Please do not do this until you've thoroughly processed this event. Only a thought, but maybe this would make a point to your processing.
Greg
You also didn't mention if you were abused before this incident.
Are you sure that this is your guilt to own? Only a suggestion (from my own experience), but try to keep the emotions and the facts separate. With me, trying to do both just made it that much harder to process. Just a thought.
Have you thought about contacting the person after and only after you've processed this? Please do not do this until you've thoroughly processed this event. Only a thought, but maybe this would make a point to your processing.
Greg
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AlexBoyd
Registrant
You seem to be on a quest for evidence about things in your past. Just recently you stated your interest in physical evidence to prove you were raped. Now you are wanting written evidence that you "molested that poor boy" (your words), although you have clear memories of doing it.
To be blunt, I am finding it difficult to muster much sympathy regarding your emotions about your episode as an abuser. I know that I am not supposed to say that here and that this is supposed to be a place where we can be open, get support, and give support. However, I think it is worth reminding you that most of us here were in the position of that "poor boy," and that fact might color how we respond to you and how we receive what you write.
I am trying to be respectful in this response and not dismiss your feelings. It is admirable that you acknowledge what you did, but all the trigger warnings in the world will not keep me from cringing (an understatement) when I read something here that includes the words "I molested..." Obviously, it is a highly complicated issue for you. It is for all of us.
To be blunt, I am finding it difficult to muster much sympathy regarding your emotions about your episode as an abuser. I know that I am not supposed to say that here and that this is supposed to be a place where we can be open, get support, and give support. However, I think it is worth reminding you that most of us here were in the position of that "poor boy," and that fact might color how we respond to you and how we receive what you write.
I am trying to be respectful in this response and not dismiss your feelings. It is admirable that you acknowledge what you did, but all the trigger warnings in the world will not keep me from cringing (an understatement) when I read something here that includes the words "I molested..." Obviously, it is a highly complicated issue for you. It is for all of us.
Alex...in response to your post...I understand how you feel, I feel much the same way. It's difficult to respond to.
However, I have to keep in mind, if the neighbor kid that I said I tried to coerce had done what I was asking him to do...that would have made me a molester as well. The only thing that I could offer up in my defence is not only a fact, but also an excuse...and that is at the time...I thought it was normal behavior.
As an edit...My brother(my first abuser), told me that by doing these things that I would "grow up". He was very smart to use this as an excuse. Being the youngest of 5, that was what I wanted most in the world. I was always being told that I was too young. I wanted to do the things my older siblings were doing.
In my 50's, I moved in with my mother to help her...she was 80 at the time. She constantly introduced me to her friends as "my baby". I had to learn to overlook that and accept that as being her nature.
Greg
However, I have to keep in mind, if the neighbor kid that I said I tried to coerce had done what I was asking him to do...that would have made me a molester as well. The only thing that I could offer up in my defence is not only a fact, but also an excuse...and that is at the time...I thought it was normal behavior.
As an edit...My brother(my first abuser), told me that by doing these things that I would "grow up". He was very smart to use this as an excuse. Being the youngest of 5, that was what I wanted most in the world. I was always being told that I was too young. I wanted to do the things my older siblings were doing.
In my 50's, I moved in with my mother to help her...she was 80 at the time. She constantly introduced me to her friends as "my baby". I had to learn to overlook that and accept that as being her nature.
Greg
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If I can offer a perspective...
What AlexBoyd said probably resonates the most with me, but in a very different way. Like Alex, I see your struggle from the perspective of a victim. But from that perspective, I wonder how I would feel if my own abuser took the steps you are contemplating. How would I feel if his conscience drove him to address the wrongs that haunted him? How would I feel if he wanted to take a similar journey to see his words, his actions - perhaps in an attempt to connect to who he was in perhaps a misguided but well-intentioned journey back in time to change what happened?
Maybe a better way to work through this is to write out why you want to do this. There is a reason, and I have found that writing brings out the deeper thoughts hiding behind all the noise in my head. It tends to distill those thoughts and make them easier to see outside of the clutter of my mind. Maybe that will work for you as well.
What AlexBoyd said probably resonates the most with me, but in a very different way. Like Alex, I see your struggle from the perspective of a victim. But from that perspective, I wonder how I would feel if my own abuser took the steps you are contemplating. How would I feel if his conscience drove him to address the wrongs that haunted him? How would I feel if he wanted to take a similar journey to see his words, his actions - perhaps in an attempt to connect to who he was in perhaps a misguided but well-intentioned journey back in time to change what happened?
Maybe a better way to work through this is to write out why you want to do this. There is a reason, and I have found that writing brings out the deeper thoughts hiding behind all the noise in my head. It tends to distill those thoughts and make them easier to see outside of the clutter of my mind. Maybe that will work for you as well.
AlexBoyd
Registrant
I never intended for you to remove the post. It is an open forum and though things gets painful, I think the openness is essential for this to be a meaningful place.
My older brother was also one of my abusers, and it has only been in the last few years since coming here that I have come to realize my brother must have been molested when he was younger, most likely by the dad next door who molested me. There can be little doubt about it. Throughout the years I have harbored alot of hate for my brother, but now that I realize how he must have had it, I also hurt for him.
It's one hell of a situation we all go through, and I did not mean to come across as judging you.
My older brother was also one of my abusers, and it has only been in the last few years since coming here that I have come to realize my brother must have been molested when he was younger, most likely by the dad next door who molested me. There can be little doubt about it. Throughout the years I have harbored alot of hate for my brother, but now that I realize how he must have had it, I also hurt for him.
It's one hell of a situation we all go through, and I did not mean to come across as judging you.
I too believe that my brother was abused early on...I don't think that he was clever enough to use the phrase that he used for me. Both myself and eldest brother believe this.
I was early on in my therapy...and very outraged and angry when my brother got cancer. People urged me to talk to him about his abuse of me and then there was the other side...who asked: what would I get out of confronting him?
I went back and forth on the subject...very confusing for me. Finally I said to myself..."this is too big for me...only God can judge him". I never talked to him again. He's gone now...and even though others may disagree, I believe that I did the right thing(at least for me).
Moving on...I think that it's safe to say that we(or at least most of us) believe that the abuser did these things on purpose to hurt us out of some kind of perversion. Although that's how I feel about 2 of my abusers, I don't believe that of my brother...although he was also very cruel to me. I believe that his cruelness came from his own shame and guilt. The two that I believe were caused by their perversion were a rape by my roommate and a molestation by a Doctor.
Greg
I was early on in my therapy...and very outraged and angry when my brother got cancer. People urged me to talk to him about his abuse of me and then there was the other side...who asked: what would I get out of confronting him?
I went back and forth on the subject...very confusing for me. Finally I said to myself..."this is too big for me...only God can judge him". I never talked to him again. He's gone now...and even though others may disagree, I believe that I did the right thing(at least for me).
Moving on...I think that it's safe to say that we(or at least most of us) believe that the abuser did these things on purpose to hurt us out of some kind of perversion. Although that's how I feel about 2 of my abusers, I don't believe that of my brother...although he was also very cruel to me. I believe that his cruelness came from his own shame and guilt. The two that I believe were caused by their perversion were a rape by my roommate and a molestation by a Doctor.
Greg
