"
"
- Thread starterCoach
- Start date
I think a careful study will show that God has promised to NEVER leave of forsake those who belong to Him. There are many verses and passages to support that claim.
There are various lines of thought in regard to what occurred on the Cross, but no matter what line of thought one takes, that was a very specifically event with one very specific purpose and objective in mind.
There are various lines of thought in regard to what occurred on the Cross, but no matter what line of thought one takes, that was a very specifically event with one very specific purpose and objective in mind.
There are many psalms by David in which he expresses how is is overwhelmed by troubles and oppressed by enemies, and feeling abandoned by God and left to his own solitude and misery. he always comes back, however, to the knowledge that God is there. many of the prophets also went through a time of persecution and feeling like they were deserted by God. they are now regarded as great examples of faith.
our circumstances and feelings change, but we are taught that God does not change - even when we are not aware of Him.
lee
our circumstances and feelings change, but we are taught that God does not change - even when we are not aware of Him.
lee
tbkkfile
Registrant
Hi Coach
As a person with little knowledge of the bible, I was a bit taken back by the intimation you made that God abandons people in the midst of their suffering, and you then ask how or whether he even redeems the soul of those very same people.
Maybe I got it wrong but does that mean that now I've been abused God doesn't think my soul is worthy of redemption?
Apologies if I got your post wrong
David
As a person with little knowledge of the bible, I was a bit taken back by the intimation you made that God abandons people in the midst of their suffering, and you then ask how or whether he even redeems the soul of those very same people.
Maybe I got it wrong but does that mean that now I've been abused God doesn't think my soul is worthy of redemption?
Apologies if I got your post wrong
David
Last edited by a moderator:
victor-victim
Registrant
this is ezekiel. 1 kings chapter 19.
...he himself went a days journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a juniper tree: and he requested for himself that he might die; and said, "It is enough; now, O Lord, take away my life; for I am not better than my fathers."
we all get desperate at times.
...he himself went a days journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a juniper tree: and he requested for himself that he might die; and said, "It is enough; now, O Lord, take away my life; for I am not better than my fathers."
we all get desperate at times.
Serious Dave
Registrant
Hi Coach,
I am rather new. Nice to make your acquaintance, circumstances excepted. Sorry to pile on, but I don't think God ever abandons us. "I will never leave you nor forsake you." I do think we FEEL that way at times, though. I like the metaphor of the "Footprints in the Sand" poem/idea. When we couldn't sense our hand in His, it's because he was carrying us. I know I've been carried by Him for long distances at a time!
I think His abandonment of Jesus was necessary to complete the work of salvation. God turned his back on Christ because, in His Holiness, He could not look on the One who was "made sin for us". Think about it, all the sins - past, present and future - heaped on Him; that is suffering beyond belief. the good news is that we no longer carry them.
On the other hand, those who don't have a relationship with God through Christ are called "blind", "dead", hopeless. "We do not mourn as those who have no hope." They have no hope of the life we share in Christ - that's hell on earth - to be cut off from God.
All that said, I love the topic of God in suffering as it relates to SA. Lead on.
Dave
I am rather new. Nice to make your acquaintance, circumstances excepted. Sorry to pile on, but I don't think God ever abandons us. "I will never leave you nor forsake you." I do think we FEEL that way at times, though. I like the metaphor of the "Footprints in the Sand" poem/idea. When we couldn't sense our hand in His, it's because he was carrying us. I know I've been carried by Him for long distances at a time!
I think His abandonment of Jesus was necessary to complete the work of salvation. God turned his back on Christ because, in His Holiness, He could not look on the One who was "made sin for us". Think about it, all the sins - past, present and future - heaped on Him; that is suffering beyond belief. the good news is that we no longer carry them.
On the other hand, those who don't have a relationship with God through Christ are called "blind", "dead", hopeless. "We do not mourn as those who have no hope." They have no hope of the life we share in Christ - that's hell on earth - to be cut off from God.
All that said, I love the topic of God in suffering as it relates to SA. Lead on.
Dave
little big man
Registrant
Buddhism's eightfold path is the way out of suffering as it says in the four noble truths. If your thinking makes you suffer this path teches you how to do something about it. All suffering begines btween the ears. How we think, stories we make. what we are doing with our thinking. im not a pray and wait type of guy>
victor-victim
Registrant
[font:Times New Roman]When the worst finally happens, or almost happens, a kind of peace comes. I had passed beyond grief, beyond terror, all but beyond hope, and it was there, in that wilderness, that for the first time in my life I caught sight of something of what it must be like to love God truly. It was only a glimpse, but it was like stumbling on fresh water in the desert, like remembering something so huge and extraordinary that my memory had been unable to contain it. Though God was nowhere to be clearly seen, nowhere to be clearly heard, I had to be near him. I loved him because there was nothing else left. I loved him because he seemed to have made himself as helpless in his might as I was in my helplessness. I loved him not so much in spite of there being nothing in it for me but almost because there was nothing in it for me. For the first time in my life, there in that wilderness, I caught a glimpse of what it must be like to love God truly, for his own sake, to love him no matter what. If I loved him with less than all my heart, soul, and will, I loved him with at least as much of them as I had left for loving anything
I did not love God, God knows, because I was some sort of saint or hero. I did not love him because I suddenly saw the light (there was almost no light at all) or because I hoped by loving him to persuade him to heal. I loved him because I couldnt help myself. I loved him because the one who commands us to love is the one who also empowers us to love, as there in the wilderness of that dark and terrible time I was, through no doing of my own, empowered to love him at least a little, at least enough to survive. And in the midst of it, these small things happened that were as big as heaven and earth because through them a hope beyond hopelessness happened.
The final secret, I think, is this: that the words You shall love the Lord your God become in the end less a command than a promise.[/font]
Frederick Buechner
A Room Called Remember: Uncollected Pieces
I did not love God, God knows, because I was some sort of saint or hero. I did not love him because I suddenly saw the light (there was almost no light at all) or because I hoped by loving him to persuade him to heal. I loved him because I couldnt help myself. I loved him because the one who commands us to love is the one who also empowers us to love, as there in the wilderness of that dark and terrible time I was, through no doing of my own, empowered to love him at least a little, at least enough to survive. And in the midst of it, these small things happened that were as big as heaven and earth because through them a hope beyond hopelessness happened.
The final secret, I think, is this: that the words You shall love the Lord your God become in the end less a command than a promise.[/font]
Frederick Buechner
A Room Called Remember: Uncollected Pieces
Where is God in the midst of suffering? He is where He always is. We must remember, during a test the teacher remains silent. I submitted a paper about God being faithful and just during times of trials and suffering. Just like Israel was judged and suffered, He loved them and had an EVERLASTING covenant. I have an illustration from my report but supper is ready. It is a great topic to discuss and cover. We see Job as an example also. Daniel is a good example also. Look at Saul, he seem Goliath as a physical battle and David seen him as a spiritual battle where God had already given David the victory. So what lens we are looking through determined how we see things also. God bless and I disagree with the post about Buddha.
Country, your examples are there and true but they were men, even David by definition of the time had passed to manhood. Where is God when the Perp is abusing a child? Where is God when the perp He created and foreknew in the Perp's mother's womb and still instilled the sex drive in was sexually abusing you and me?
THAT is the question we all must face. Someone recently told me that God was in me and suffering in me. He was feeling what I was experiencing and he foreknew I would survive...but some days I don't feel like surviving. Some days I feel abandoned, betrayed. Ripped from childhood/youthful innocence and thrown away to be twisted and tormented for someone's perverse entertainment.
Manipulated
THAT is the question we all must face. Someone recently told me that God was in me and suffering in me. He was feeling what I was experiencing and he foreknew I would survive...but some days I don't feel like surviving. Some days I feel abandoned, betrayed. Ripped from childhood/youthful innocence and thrown away to be twisted and tormented for someone's perverse entertainment.
Manipulated
victor-victim
Registrant
dear coach,
i recently came across some excellent interviews of some christian ministers with CSA and PTSD as the topic. these pastors both freely and frankly disclose and discuss their own daily difficulties dealing with their own personal private histories. spiritual, scriptural, emotional and psychological. i must warn potential listeners that this is some serious, heavy, dark and deep feelings openly and honestly being expressed. some taboo topics are tackled tactfully, but the triggers are everywhere. these men have the courage to wrestle this issue publicly, without shame or blame.
they offer some pretty good answers to your questions. these podcasts and videos brought me a few steps closer to closure.
TRIGGER WARNINGS!
https://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=482555#Post482555
i recently came across some excellent interviews of some christian ministers with CSA and PTSD as the topic. these pastors both freely and frankly disclose and discuss their own daily difficulties dealing with their own personal private histories. spiritual, scriptural, emotional and psychological. i must warn potential listeners that this is some serious, heavy, dark and deep feelings openly and honestly being expressed. some taboo topics are tackled tactfully, but the triggers are everywhere. these men have the courage to wrestle this issue publicly, without shame or blame.
they offer some pretty good answers to your questions. these podcasts and videos brought me a few steps closer to closure.
TRIGGER WARNINGS!
https://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=482555#Post482555
