.
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This might provide some answers as well as questions. The article is possibly going to be revised so any comments would be appreciated.
https://www.malesurvivor.org/Professionals/Articles/singer2.htm
Ken
https://www.malesurvivor.org/Professionals/Articles/singer2.htm
Ken
Interesting, I guess at times it is sabotage, but also perhaps a patterned response, you know taught we deserve no good, so we don't accept the good, we have to stop it. I know for me, I don't act out sexually, in fact the abuse is the only experience I have ever had, which was of course, against my will. I do act out in other ways, as you said, to sabotage. Whether it is because I feel I do not deserve the good, or trying to keep the good at bay, so it can't turn bad and hurt us. I feel these are the resons I sabotage myself, defense, patterned response, and believing I don't deserve the good, I still feel I only deserve the bad, but in time perhaps, we all can get past it some what. If I thought about it more I could probably come up with other things to say here about 'why?' but right now this is all I can think of as an explanation.
scott
scott
ScottyTodd
Registrant
Len - Just a thought. Many folks I deal with are what we call "crisis oriented families". These are families, when things begin to go well (stable, positive), they encounter some crisis. This occurs consistently. One reason for this is they feel comfortable )in control) when things are in crisis. In crisis they know how to feel, what to think, what to expect from others, what they can and need to do, etc. When things begin to stabilize, they become scared, feeling things will fall apart, things are out of control,"wait for the other shoe to fall" (not realizing the guy in the bedroom above them only has one leg = one shoe). These folks make obviously poor decisions. Go places and do things they know, if thought through, will cause shame, guilt, chaos, etc. It is difficult for them to see it as sabotoge because it comes from usually unaware behaviors, feelings and thoughts. Those who observe them will see things go out-of-order step-by-step but, even if warned, the crisis oriented family will not see it.
There is a lot more that may explain this issue. The issue may be simple but perhaps complex as well. It can be interesting examining why people do what they do.
Howard
There is a lot more that may explain this issue. The issue may be simple but perhaps complex as well. It can be interesting examining why people do what they do.
Howard
Hey Len... you are raising very interesting posts in here!
My therapist gave me this analogy once and it made sense. (Whether or not I can adequately describe it here is a different story.)
Our minds sort of form this scale or balance between good and bad in our lives. Everyone has a different level... some people's scale is permanently tipped with 80% good and 20% bad, some have 80% bad and 20% good. The lucky few have 50/50.
If the scale starts to tip out of your comfort zone (whatever ratio that might be) we work subconsciously to try and get it to the ratio we feel is the one we know best.
I don't know... it made sense to me at the time.
-Sean
My therapist gave me this analogy once and it made sense. (Whether or not I can adequately describe it here is a different story.)
Our minds sort of form this scale or balance between good and bad in our lives. Everyone has a different level... some people's scale is permanently tipped with 80% good and 20% bad, some have 80% bad and 20% good. The lucky few have 50/50.
If the scale starts to tip out of your comfort zone (whatever ratio that might be) we work subconsciously to try and get it to the ratio we feel is the one we know best.
I don't know... it made sense to me at the time.
-Sean
Len
I'm sure my sabotage was me making sure that I stayed in the place my abuse took me to - the bottom of the heap !
I didn't know how to accept good things in my life, my formitive years were spent away from my family in a crummy boarding school being abused. Life was shit for me from 11 to 16 and I learned all the wrong things, or didn't experience good things in a positive way.
At school if we had some free time from the strict regime, I was being abused. So the free time that was supposed to be 'good' became associated with the abuse.
It took 31 to even start to correct that, and it's not been easy. I can still sabotage myself, but it's getting less and easier to overcome.
What pisses me off is remembering some of the times I've deliberatly made myself really unhappy when I should have been enjoying myself, it's a strange and powerful thing. But recognising it is a good start, I just didn't know I was doing it.
Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing eh ?
Dave
I'm sure my sabotage was me making sure that I stayed in the place my abuse took me to - the bottom of the heap !
I didn't know how to accept good things in my life, my formitive years were spent away from my family in a crummy boarding school being abused. Life was shit for me from 11 to 16 and I learned all the wrong things, or didn't experience good things in a positive way.
At school if we had some free time from the strict regime, I was being abused. So the free time that was supposed to be 'good' became associated with the abuse.
It took 31 to even start to correct that, and it's not been easy. I can still sabotage myself, but it's getting less and easier to overcome.
What pisses me off is remembering some of the times I've deliberatly made myself really unhappy when I should have been enjoying myself, it's a strange and powerful thing. But recognising it is a good start, I just didn't know I was doing it.
Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing eh ?
Dave
James_dup1
Registrant
Scott.......you said....
. Thanks for the thread Len......keep them comming.
James
Do we know eachother? WOW does that sound like me. Seems like crisis follows me, but Im sure I follow it. Although I'm not if I sabotage because things have always gone bad and I expect them to be bad...or I've just always sabotaged because of me. So which came first the chicken or the egg. I've messed up every good thing in my life one way or another. So here's to the chaos! Life would be pretty boring in James's world without it
. Thanks for the thread Len......keep them comming. James
crisispoint
Registrant
I think the best thing I can think of is that sabotage is a result of believing the lies our SOB abusers told us. We aren't worthy of good things, so we purposely do the bad stuff to "prove" it to ourselves.
It's a great thing to recognize the truth. Better still is when we act against it. And the greatest thing of all is when we actually ACCEPT the truth!
Never doubt the truth, my brother. You are a good person that had bad things done to them and occasionally makes bad choices. Nothing more, nothing less. In time (I'm told!), you will get beyond the sabotage. I know I'm working on it.
I hope this helps some.
Peace and love,
Scot
It's a great thing to recognize the truth. Better still is when we act against it. And the greatest thing of all is when we actually ACCEPT the truth!
Never doubt the truth, my brother. You are a good person that had bad things done to them and occasionally makes bad choices. Nothing more, nothing less. In time (I'm told!), you will get beyond the sabotage. I know I'm working on it.
I hope this helps some.
Peace and love,
Scot
Maybe I am defining Sabotage too broadly, but I used to do things or arrange things so I would need help or get sympathy.
That was all I had. I hadn't told anyone what happened, and deep down, all I ever wanted was for someone to ask me "What happened? Did someone hurt you?"
No one ever asked. I finally learned that I had to tell, and for me, that is when healing began, but that is for another thread.
So when I drove people away, or did odd, inexplicable things, I was always hoping that someone would see something was terribly wrong and finally help me, or maybe, rarely, still like me anyway, even though there was SOMETHING about me.
That was all I had. I hadn't told anyone what happened, and deep down, all I ever wanted was for someone to ask me "What happened? Did someone hurt you?"
No one ever asked. I finally learned that I had to tell, and for me, that is when healing began, but that is for another thread.
So when I drove people away, or did odd, inexplicable things, I was always hoping that someone would see something was terribly wrong and finally help me, or maybe, rarely, still like me anyway, even though there was SOMETHING about me.